Has rugby become the "people's game"?

thebaz

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Soccer and GAA dominate in most other places, with Rugby 4th or 5th.

i admit rugby would be behind soccer and GAA - but claiming it is 5th in popularity is a bit out ther - judging by the interest shown currently in our 6 nations campaign.

ps the national soccer team are struggling to fill the Aviva in recent years, rugby games seam harder to get tickets for anyway.

Tim Robbins

thebaz wrote: »

i admit rugby would be behind soccer and GAA - but claiming it is 5th in popularity is about out ther - judging by the interest shown currently in our 6 nations campaign.

Well yeah fair point. 4th more accurate if you count GAA s two

But don't forget in certain areas sports like Boxing etc are popular. Large parts of North Dublin, Rugby is pretty much non - existent in terms of playing. Interest of course and respect given to the sport is very high.

airmech

https://www.balls.ie/football/rugby-irelands-most-popular-sport-384546

prawnsambo

airmech wrote: »

https://www.balls.ie/football/rugby-irelands-most-popular-sport-384546

I think you could trawl through all 250+ posts on this thread and not find anyone arguing in favour of the premise of the thread title. I'd say it was the most ridiculous assertion ever uttered on national television except we all know that's not true. :rolleyes:

And The Lost Sheep is dead to me for even starting this thread.

its_phil

airmech wrote: »

https://www.balls.ie/football/rugby-irelands-most-popular-sport-384546

It’s an excellent article and well researched. Only problems with it are the tv figures should be compared when the teams are at their pinnacle supports i.e Euros and RWC.

Also, I’m quite confident the figure of 150,000 for Munster Connacht is for 2018 not the 2017/2018 season. I’m certain I saw TG4 say Leinster Munster on Stephen’s day got 400k in viewers.

Came away from it with the conclusion rugby is a popular sport, like NFL in the states, but not a well played sport

The Lost Sheep

prawnsambo wrote: »

OK, let's look at Bective Rangers. I actually tried to but their website is down for maintenance without even a holding page which leads me to believe it was hacked. So I looked on the Wayback Machine and it was dreadful. There was absolutely no information for prospective youths players to even get an idea that there would be a program for them. Or even a coach. Their Facebook page is full of news about their senior teams, but barely a mention of their youths or minis. And they actually do have a minis section.

As IBF said, there's no problem getting numbers if someone is willing to put in the effort. BRFC don't look like they're putting in any effort at all.

Contrast that with the Galwegians website and it's like chalk and cheese. Galwegians have a Youths menu on their website with six different options including contacts and player information. The kind of things that people would actually look for if they were considering joining.

If I were a youths player interested in joining a club and playing rugby, I'd pass BRFC right by.

Because Bective Rangers like many clubs in Dublin city have tried in past and failed and dont really try field regular under 14-18 sides in competition because of schools and their panelling/stopping kids play youths rugby.
Galwegians are completely different because they dont have schools panelling most of their potential players. Kids in Galway play mid week with the Jes/Bish etc but those schools dont play weekends like what happens in Dublin.

There is many other clubs in Dublin just like Bective Rangers

nice_guy80 wrote: »

there are more handball clubs than rugby clubs in Ireland.

you still only have one rugby club in the likes of Longford, Leitrim, Cavan, none in Co. Roscommon

there are over 2,000 Gaelic Football Clubs in Ireland.

As others have mentioned there is several clubs in/on borders of these counties with their catchment area into those counties

nice_guy80 wrote: »

they should have been discussing how to move rugby out of the fee paying schools in urban Ireland and out into the rest of the country if they really want to spread the game

CatFromHue wrote: »

I think people are forgetting that it's the work the schools put into the players that makes them successful, I'm not sure if that's possible to recreate fully, or partly, in the clubs game.

The schools are effectively the same as a pro soccer club's academy in England.

But theyre not the same. Its completely different.
The schools do put in a lot of work but they create barriers to playing because of their fee's. And IRFU/clubs dont do enough.

Country Surfer wrote: »

Rugby is was and always has been the game for people who wear suits.

Now whether that is a negative thing or a positive thing depends on your view point.

I don’t see why it shouldn’t be seen as the “people’s” game because it’s doors are open to all comers......if you go to the right school.........in the right city.....or have a big country home.

Your last paragraph is completely off.

nice_guy80 wrote: »

most rural rugby clubs aren't like that
though, there is a tendency in rural areas for protestants not to play GAA so rugby is the main alternative for them

there aren't enough rugby clubs in the country simple as

Yes and there is new clubs being created in new areas more and more all the time but IRFU could be doing far better in some areas like in the capital so much more should be done in Tallaght and many other areas without clubs/with clubs but relatively poor underage sections

its_phil wrote: »

Buccaneers, Creggs and Carrick would all be considered Roscommon clubs considering their positions on the borders of Galway and Westmeath

+1

thebaz

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Because Bective Rangers like many clubs in Dublin city have tried in past and failed and dont really try field regular under 14-18 sides in competition because of schools and their panelling/stopping kids play youths rugby.

bective along with Marys school (and leinster) have only helped create a Johnny Sexton - proving the 2 can work together , and should. Larmour played with wanderers a bit along with Andrews. Clubs and schools should work together , not against each other.

The Lost Sheep

thebaz wrote: »

bective along with Marys school (and leinster) have only helped create a Johnny Sexton - proving the 2 can work together , and should. Larmour played with wanderers a bit along with Andrews. Clubs and schools should work together not against each other.

That doesnt actually prove your point. Johnny Sexton played mini rugby in Bective and didnt play with them again while in Secondary school. Same ith Larmour. Not knowing this shows the schools dont work with the clubs.
Schools dont want to work with the clubs

thebaz

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

That doesnt actually prove your point. Johnny Sexton played mini rugby in Bective and didnt play with them again while in Secondary school. Same ith Larmour. Not knowing this shows the schools dont work with the clubs.
Schools dont want to work with the clubs

Johnny was quite active and involved with Bective growing up - ther is room for both - thats was my point - thats all

The Lost Sheep

thebaz wrote: »

Johnny was quite active and involved with Bective growing up - ther is room for both - thats was my point - thats all

But not playing through youths rugby. There should be room but of current rugby playing population the schools wont give releases for clubs to field and most clubs dont do enough to get other kids playing rugby

prawnsambo

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

But not playing through youths rugby. There should be room but of current rugby playing population the schools wont give releases for clubs to field and most clubs dont do enough to get other kids playing rugby

That's my point. Fighting over the existing playing population is just a turf war. Growing the game is about bringing new players into the sport, not trying to winkle a few players out of the schools who are never going to train with the clubs anyway since they're training every day at school.

The Lost Sheep

prawnsambo wrote: »

That's my point. Fighting over the existing playing population is just a turf war. Growing the game is about bringing new players into the sport, not trying to winkle a few players out of the schools who are never going to train with the clubs anyway since they're training every day at school.

But its quite hard to get a team from the start in an area where huge numbers in sport nearby are playing already.
And lots of clubs field teams in schools-youths league and have pathways to get kids into their clubs. There is development officers going to secondary schools trying to get kids playing the sport and getting them into clubs.

irishbucsfan

I think it's a bit of a waste of time using Bective as an example because it's probably the only area in the country where a majority of your prospective players are already going to rugby schools.

If we're talking about expanding the sport then Dublin 4 is hardly the place to be worrying about.

Our club has one rugby school nearby and instead we are able to pull from 2/3 other non-rugby schools and integrate the rugby school lads at u18/u20 level once they're finished. That works for us, not sure it'd work at a club in D4.

prawnsambo

There are also far too many clubs in the area fighting over the same players. There are seven clubs (excluding RCSI) in the Ballsbridge/Sandymount/Donnybrook catchment area.

The Lost Sheep

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think it's a bit of a waste of time using Bective as an example because it's probably the only area in the country where a majority of your prospective players are already going to rugby schools.

If we're talking about expanding the sport then Dublin 4 is hardly the place to be worrying about.

Our club has one rugby school nearby and instead we are able to pull from 2/3 other non-rugby schools and integrate the rugby school lads at u18/u20 level once they're finished. That works for us, not sure it'd work at a club in D4.

I dont. You only have to travel a short bit and there is plenty of kids who dont attend rugby schools because the fee's are an issue and where are clubs for them?
Places like Cabinteely, Stepaside etc. And how many clubs is there for them?

prawnsambo

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I dont. You only have to travel a short bit and there is plenty of kids who dont attend rugby schools because the fee's are an issue and where are clubs for them?
Places like Cabinteely, Stepaside etc. And how many clubs is there for them?

Really? Palmerstown are between Stepaside and Kilternan. There's a shared ground further down the road from Kilternan that hosts two clubs afaik. Can't remember which two off the top of my head, but they've a good clubhouse and pitches.

And on the other side of the N11 from Cabinteely is Seapoint.

The Lost Sheep

prawnsambo wrote: »

Really? Palmerstown are between Stepaside and Kilternan. There's a shared ground further down the road from Kilternan that hosts two clubs afaik. Can't remember which two off the top of my head, but they've a good clubhouse and pitches.

And on the other side of the N11 from Cabinteely is Seapoint.

Im tired
Probably wrong examples of places.
But still isnt enough work being done by those clubs. Like there is St Brigid minis club in Cabinteely but no proper links to any clubs for kids who may want to play youths rugby.
There is huge number of houses and people here but not enough being done by these clubs to attract people to these clubs.

prawnsambo

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Im tired
Probably wrong examples of places.
But still isnt enough work being done by those clubs. Like there is St Brigid minis club in Cabinteely but no proper links to any clubs for kids who may want to play youths rugby.
There is huge number of houses and people here but not enough being done by these clubs to attract people to these clubs.

Fair play. I don't often catch you out.

But yeah, I think you're right there. Those are great facilities in easy reach of big population centres from Sandyford through to Stepaside and Kilternan and east towards the N11 and Cabinteely/Loughlinstown and even south to Shankill and Bray.

Connacht15

Even if Ireland win The RWC in Japan next year, rugby would not become the national sport here!

The Lost Sheep

Connacht15 wrote: »

Even if Ireland win The RWC in Japan next year, rugby would not become the national sport here!

Nobody has said it would. It wont ever displace Gaelic Football or Soccer in terms of playing numbers.

Nekarsulm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

there are more handball clubs than rugby clubs in Ireland.

you still only have one rugby club in the likes of Longford, Leitrim, Cavan, none in Co. Roscommon

there are over 2,000 Gaelic Football Clubs in Ireland.

Two in Cavan, actually.
It's interesting to see in recent years the sport being introduced to secondary schools where once it would never have been even drempt about.
Moyne CS on the Longford Cavan border have a good squad, starting from nothing in 2010 they won the Leinster junior development cup in 2013, the Duff Cup in 2014 and the Leinster senior development cup in 2015.
The local Loreto college in Cavan also has a huge input into The Cavan Ladies team, which would have been unheard of only a few years ago.

The Rape of Lucretia

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Nobody has said it would. It wont ever displace Gaelic Football or Soccer in terms of playing numbers.

Nor golf. The real peoples game. Actively played and competed in, by a wider range of the population than any other sport (exlcuding the not really sports like walking, swimming, going to the gym, cycling, etc. that while perfectly valid as leisure and fitness activities, are a different market to the inherently competitive sports).

The Lost Sheep

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Two in Cavan, actually.
It's interesting to see in recent years the sport being introduced to secondary schools where once it would never have been even drempt about.
Moyne CS on the Longford Cavan border have a good squad, starting from nothing in 2010 they won the Leinster junior development cup in 2013, the Duff Cup in 2014 and the Leinster senior development cup in 2015.
The local Loreto college in Cavan also has a huge input into The Cavan Ladies team, which would have been unheard of only a few years ago.

Thanks. Always seem to forget Virginia RFC...
Yeah. The numbers of schools playing has increased hugely.
Like who would have thought 15-20 years ago that St Pats Navan and Jarleths Tuam and Summerhill Sligo would have competed in Leinster and Connacht Rugby finals.

Benedict XVI

Seeing as the grand slam homecoming is being held in a stadium and is an all ticket event, with tickets only avaible through ticketmaster, just goes to show how far from the "people's game" rugby actually is.

GAA and soccer teams have their homecomings on public streets.

sydthebeat

Benedict XVI wrote: »

Seeing as the grand slam homecoming is being held in a stadium and is an all ticket event, with tickets only avaible through ticketmaster, just goes to show how far from the "people's game" rugby actually is.

GAA and soccer teams have their homecomings on public streets.

Eh... The tickets are free

What better way to share the moment than in a stadium full of Irish fans.

Do some homework before spouting your internet fueled faux outrage

Benedict XVI

sydthebeat wrote: »

Eh... The tickets are free

What better way to share the moment than in a stadium full of Irish fans.

Do some homework before spouting your internet fueled faux outrage

Oh I know they are free, I never mentioned that cost was a factor, but one still has to get a ticket online.

It's unlike other homecomings which are in public places that people can just go to without having to "aquire" a ticket beforehand.

The moment could be shared in College Green, or Smithfield or on an open top bus through the city.

sydthebeat

Benedict XVI wrote: »

Oh I know they are free, I never mentioned that cost was a factor, but one still has to get a ticket online.

It's unlike other homecomings which are in public places that people can just go to without having to "aquire" a ticket beforehand.

Wow
The inconvenience is massive. Can't believe they actually have to go all the way to "on line"..... You'll be shattered after that.

connemara man

Benedict XVI wrote: »

Oh I know they are free, but one still has to get one online.

It's unlike other homecomings which are in public places that people can just go to without having to "aquire" a ticket beforehand.

You do know it could be as a request from the Gardaí? Like there is a plan in place to deal with crowds going to and from the Aviva for Rugby and football. So putting that into action makes sense the trying to cordon of a section of main road in the middle of town

OldRio

Interesting point that all the local Parades yesterday had their starting times changed because of the Rugby ko time.

The Lost Sheep

Benedict XVI wrote: »

Oh I know they are free, I never mentioned that cost was a factor, but one still has to get a ticket online.

It's unlike other homecomings which are in public places that people can just go to without having to "aquire" a ticket beforehand.

The moment could be shared in College Green, or Smithfield or on an open top bus through the city.

They could be doing it on request from the Guards?? And because there is a limit on capacity then there has to be tickets made available.

TheAnalyst_

An outside view.
http://www.the42.ie/trapattoni-claims-irish-people-more-passionate-rugby-soccer-1457116-May2014/

GAA people screaming about clubs and player numbers misses the point.

sydthebeat

OldRio wrote: »

Interesting point that all the local Parades yesterday had their starting times changed because of the Rugby ko time.

Ours didn't.
Should have, but didn't.

C__MC

sydthebeat wrote: »

Eh... The tickets are free

What better way to share the moment than in a stadium full of Irish fans.

Do some homework before spouting your internet fueled faux outrage

I hope the atmosphere in the aviva can be upped for this, it’s usually shocking. Vodafone flags and ads making it look there is an atmosphere.

Stheno

C__MC wrote: »

I hope the atmosphere in the aviva can be upped for this, it’s usually shocking. Vodafone flags and ads making it look there is an atmosphere.

Its cancelled

blue note

I'm a bit late to the conversation but just hear Neil Francis on a podcast talking about this yesterday and said I'd add my tuppence worth.

I have two thoughts on all of this basically. Firstly, without knowing what is meant by "the people's game" and knowing really that different people mean different things by it, which means that they're then arguing about different things, it's hard not to have little opinions on it all. When you hear of Ireland making history on a fairly regular basis it's hard not to scoff a little bit. But it’s easy enough to turn off the post match commentary or switch the radio station. I'd be a big hurling fan and lap up whatever coverage there is on it. Even though I know much of what I'm listening to is nonsense, I enjoy listening to it. So I'm assuming there are plenty of rugby fans the same so I don't let it bother me.

One thing I will say about all the bandwagoner comments on this thread - of course the bandwagon will slow down. But plenty of people will have grown to love the game in that time and will continue to support their teams in bad times as well as good and will start putting their kids into rugby clubs. Bandwagons are great. They're incredible fun and pretty much essential if you want to grow a game.

The second thought I have on this which overrides the first is what on earth is the point of this discussion? Once I saw the headline a few weeks ago I knew all it would mean is you'll have people bursting to tell everyone why rugby isn't the people's game. Then for a few days after winning a grandslam, added to the discussion is negativity. Obviously rugby is no-where near GAA or soccer in terms of playing numbers / attendance / viewership figures (when you consider there’s essentially 4 teams that people support in Ireland and one international from them). But if you look at how far it’s come in the last 20 years, it’s extraordinary. For big 6 nations and world cup matches the pubs are full for them and stay full until close. There was nothing like that interest in rugby 20 years ago. Tramore, my home town, I understand have started up a rugby club and I’m sure there are loads more towns the same. Tag rugby is a massive game and barely existed 20 years ago. From where rugby was compared to GAA / soccer in the 90s, it was impossible to think it would somehow catch up in that time. But with so much positive to be said about where rugby is now, why would you start making these comparisons to other sports? And in my experience, people who play sport are generally interested in many sports. I’ve moved hurling games so that my team could watch rugby or soccer matches. And I imagine if you talk to the people who actually play rugby the majority of them will be intestered in sport across the board and would find these comparisons tiresome.

OldRio

Great post blue note. Fully agree.

Nekarsulm

blue note wrote: »

And I imagine if you talk to the people who actually play rugby the majority of them will be intestered in sport across the board and would find these comparisons tiresome.

In the club I played with, the majority of them were obsessed with Soccer, and played Gaelic for their various local clubs as well.

Digifriendly

Nekarsulm wrote: »

In the club I played with, the majority of them were obsessed with Soccer, and played Gaelic for their various local clubs as well.

Maybe a more interesting question is - In light of the crossover in Irish sport, is this on a much greater scale on this island than say the other 'home nations' i.e. England/Wales/Scotland obviously taking GAA out of the equation in those countries?

ConnyMcDavid

New report on participation sports in Ireland. Rugby is not even on top 12.
Was surprised to see Golf ahead of GAA.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/0510/962502-report-shows-decline-in-numbers-playing-soccer/

jr86

I assume golf and soccer account for those playing recreationally (e.g. 5 a side kickabouts, pitch and putt etc.)

Surely Gaelic football has the most actual registered players

Buer

Can hardly put too much stock in that. It could be more accurately described as the most popular forms of exercise rather than sport with dancing and yoga both featuring in the top ten.

Of course this would be problematic as the most popular sport for participation in Ireland is, according to the report, "exercise" itself!

Squidgy Black

Buer wrote: »

Can hardly put too much stock in that. It could be more accurately described as the most popular forms of exercise rather than sport with dancing and yoga both featuring in the top ten.

Of course this would be problematic as the most popular sport for participation in Ireland is, according to the report, "exercise" itself!

Personally I'm a massive fan of competitive yoga.

sydthebeat

Buer wrote: »

Can hardly put too much stock in that. It could be more accurately described as the most popular forms of exercise rather than sport with dancing and yoga both featuring in the top ten.

Of course this would be problematic as the most popular sport for participation in Ireland is, according to the report, "exercise" itself!

Sex.


Just saying