Irish DoES aping English school system

gaiscioch

The sheer stupidity of the bureaucracy-suffocated English school system that Ruairí Quinn and his successors have aped in Irish schools under the painful misnomer "reform" is screaming again and again at anybody in power (or in the TUI and INTO) who has the integrity to be honest. A wake-up article below on today's BBC website for what awaits Ireland's teachers (the teacher shortages have already started here):

Education Secretary Damian Hinds to cut workload to tackle teacher shortage

Mr Hinds will say long hours and red tape are among the "biggest threats" to recruiting and retaining staff.
Head teachers' leader Geoff Barton says he supports efforts to cut the "bureaucratic burden" on teachers.
In his first speech to heads and teachers since becoming education secretary, Mr Hinds will address as a "top priority" concerns about a shortage of teachers.
For five successive years, recruitment targets for teaching have been missed and schools have complained of the expense and disruption of relying on temporary staff or having to use teachers who are not specialists in the subjects they are teaching.
Schools are spending £835m per year on supply agencies, according to the most recent government figures....difficult for schools.
"And, clearly, one of the biggest threats to retention, and also to recruitment, is workload...Too many of our teachers and our school leaders are working too long hours - and on non-teaching tasks that are not helping children to learn."...
Teacher 'burnout'
Mr Hinds will speak at the conference in Birmingham alongside the Ofsted chief, Amanda Spielman, and they will highlight the need to avoid any unnecessary bureaucracy around inspections.
Ms Spielman will say that Ofsted wants to help to reduce workload.
Improvements in school will not be sustained "if the people, who make them run so well, are burning out and leaving the profession", Ms Spielman will tell the head teachers' conference.
She will warn against "entirely unnecessary" extra work such as rehearsals for inspections, so-called "mocksteds".
Mr Barton, ASCL's general secretary, will support the push to cut workload.
The heads' union has warned repeatedly of the recruitment problems facing schools, particularly in maths and science.
The heads' leader will warn that the ways into teaching have become confusingly complicated and need to be simplified.
But Mr Barton will also say that head teachers should work differently to reduce workload in their own schools, such as cutting needless meetings or administration....

Why teachers in England are suffering from so much stress (2018)

Teachers are leaving the profession in droves (2017)

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Of all the school systems to ape, the clowns in the Irish Department of Education decided to emulate the contempt-sodden, yellow-pack Tory-created one where culturally teachers are lower-class whipping boys never to be given the respect that tax-dodging City of London types get.

Good to see after all this "reform", Ruairí Quinn is gone off into the sunset on not only several huge pensions - each worth more than a teacher's starting salary - but is hungry enough to be now prostituting himself out as an "education consultant" to the highest bidder. Finally, how many of those lamentably compromised "education correspondents" in the Irish media had the courage to challenge the spin from Quinn et al that this was reform? Answer = none. How would they ever get stories or exclusives again from the Department if they were to be brave enough to question that spin.

killbillvol2

I'm not going to defend Ruairi Quinn (or any minister) but the wholesale copying of failed ideas from the UK seems to be government neutral. I can only conclude that it's being driven by the inspectorate and the rest of the permanent bureaucracy within the department.

amacca

killbillvol2 wrote: »

I'm not going to defend Ruairi Quinn (or any minister) but the wholesale copying of failed ideas from the UK seems to be government neutral. I can only conclude that it's being driven by the inspectorate and the rest of the permanent bureaucracy within the department.

Yup...+ I think theres a new brand of professional out there....that thinks professional = say yes to any suggestion or hare brained scheme/initiative that is suggested without any thought for its long term implications/feasibilty/validity etc etc....or at least say yes as long as you get ahead and screw the collective good.

And also an element of change = good.....no matter what the change...and definitely throw the baby out with the bathwater...sure nothing that happened for 7/8 decades before this was a good idea.......this new way of doing things is much better...why,well because its new, its the next new thing.

amacca

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAr7AOpizeU

ethical

Isnt the main man in Our Dept of Ed.,Mr Hislop,an Englishman! Wouldnt you think that he would not inflict the mess that is teaching in the UK on us poor unfortunates here in Ireland.Obviously he did not learn any lesson over there and it looks like we will not learn any lesson either until we make the same mistakes,spend lots of taxpayers money and lose a generation or two of our children before someone wakes up and say STOP.

The gravy train is too good to the people at the top,they are only in it for the pension top ups,dont stay around long enough to do any worthwhile job.Just look at the CE gob****es in the ETBs presently,some retiring after collecting a nice pension for 3 years !work! and being replaced by another,musical chairs and comeback and sit on the interview panel and because you scratched my bollocks I will scrartch yours even more.It would make you laugh if it wasnt so serious!

RealJohn

My assumption on all of this is that it’s simply cheaper. That’s why no party is really up in arms over it and why it keeps getting pushed in spite of obvious disadvantages: it’s cheaper but only in the short term.

All of the countries that are touted as examples of good teaching practices also spend a lot on education. Teachers are well paid, well resourced and well respected. There’s no political appetite for that because there’s no appetite among the general public to take money from something else and every politician knows that’s what’s required so they won’t promise it.

scooby77

ethical wrote: »

Isnt the main man in Our Dept of Ed.,Mr Hislop,an Englishman!

Believe or not he's from Cavan! (Trained CICE then taught and principal of Whitechurch NS in Rathfarnham.)

gaiscioch

We had a day-long in-service in the past week. These Statements of Learning sound strikingly like the JCSP stuff - and, to be frank, that turned into a joke in my school with the JCSP coordinator marshalling all teachers to have the statements filled in by a certain date and the kids were just given a class to put in what the teacher read out to them - as long as the paper was filled, that was all that was required. It really was a heartbreaking sham, and all because somebody in the DoES wants a paper record of everything.

I had an embarrassing moment with one of the other teachers, who had all his education in the North. We were talking about aspects of the "reforms" and he said, 'to be honest, when I was at school [in the late 1980s, I'd say] we were doing these statements and class presentations that they're proposing here.' Cringe for our great "modernising reformers" and for we who are expected to allow ourselves to be brainwashed by this paper-trail culture.

That the English are now admitting that their system has far too much bureaucracy (see comments in the BBC story in the op) but the DoES "modernisers" in Ireland persist in imitating it in 2018 doubles the cringe aspect to all this. Utterly backward.

ASISEEIT

I think we have gone towards the Uk system but we are a long way away. For a start we don't have subject department heads with authority. I doubt even these new posts will have any real authority over fellow teachers
Secondly the department has not required daily subject plans
Thirdly i used to be nervous about all forms of inspection but then i realised managment in my school dont seem to care and also the public hardly reads the reports
Of course we would be in a better position if most teachers grew a pair and went on strike. I would hypthosise that some posters here are great at complaining but wont strike nor say no to Daddy (principal ) Some but not all. I hear lots of protests in staffroom once principal out of earshot. Though perhaps this site is generally more militant ? More true.?

byhookorbycrook

Not too far away, I'm afraid, going by the NCCA's current developments.I don't worry about who reads published reports, I worry that if the paperwork grows as much in the next 5 years as it has in the last 5, it will take the enjoyment out of teaching and further erode our professional autonomy.

evolving_doors

Well surprisingly IEP's are back with a vengeance so get your pens ready. And it's not just for the SEN co-ordinator, every IEP has to have a plan from every teacher of that child as to how they will differentiate the material. Then it has to be signed off by the parents... etc
Previously in the EPSEN act 2006 these IEP's were kicked to touch by the unions as they argued that resources had to be provided to undertake them, but hey ho! that's been all forgotten about now.

byhookorbycrook

All under the new SEN model, former IEPs are now called continuum of support. Hard enough to coordinate in primary, must be a nightmare in secondary.

amacca

Are you serious...I heard about that before I left and I thought it was totally unfeasible/unworkable in the real world. Not just the no doubt onerous paperwork but the fact that most of the stuff you will probably be forced into saying you will do you may not be able to do given large numbers in class, any behavioural/disciplinary problems that may be in the class and the increasing difficulty caused if the numbers of SEN students in classes of sometimes 30+ students increases...can you really tailor an education package to individuals in an environment like that given the limitations...some of the strategies etc are time consuming and if there are more than one set of recommended practices for multiple SEN students with different needs + deal with the main group as well......hmm I could see it taking away from the education of the class as a whole as well as being unworkable.....

Perhaps I'd be wrong but I'd be worried for the outcomes for the class as a whole with this never mind the teachers mental health (not that that shouldn't be a concern).........I wonder if a situation could develop where some parents start actively looking for a school environment with limited or no SEN students and another group starts looking for a specialised environment where SEN students are the focus and its more feasible to have a continuum of support rather than lip service and another merry go round of paperwork. Is it so wrong to suggest that maybe you really can't serve two or more masters at once.

ASISEEIT

evolving_doors wrote: »

Well surprisingly IEP's are back with a vengeance so get your pens ready. And it's not just for the SEN co-ordinator, every IEP has to have a plan from every teacher of that child as to how they will differentiate the material. Then it has to be signed off by the parents... etc
Previously in the EPSEN act 2006 these IEP's were kicked to touch by the unions as they argued that resources had to be provided to undertake them, but hey ho! that's been all forgotten about now.

Just say no. Whats the worse they can do to you? Or write a minimum couple of lines. Teachers do themselves a disservice by taking this bull****
seriously.

Sometimes teachers have to sit back and ask if doing x really improves outcomes? We get too tied up in curriculum changes ie English only to realise that about 70% of the course is really the same -just spun differently

byhookorbycrook

ASISEEIT wrote: »

Just say no. Whats the worse they can do to you? Or write a minimum couple of lines. Teachers do themselves a disservice by taking this bull****
seriously.

Sometimes teachers have to sit back and ask if doing x really improves outcomes? We get too tied up in curriculum changes ie English only to realise that about 70% of the course is really the same -just spun differently

Under the new model, NEPS will look for the staged process before getting involved with a student. The number of students who have a continuum will be used in part to allocate SEN teachers. I'd also imagine that such a file will be required for RACE/DARE.

gaiscioch

Well, it didn't take long for Irish teachers to develop an outlook on their profession in Ireland that emulates the longstanding outlook of an enormous number of English teachers on their profession in England*. It is just awfully embarrassing that the profoundly anglocentric/creatively challenged senior fonctionnaires in the Irish Department of Education are shovelling this failed, old-fashioned, paper-obsessed education system upon Ireland - and dressing it up as "reform" is an abject kick in the teeth to finish things off:


Half of new teachers don’t see themselves staying in profession (Ireland, April 2018)




* Just passing through: why young teachers are leaving the profession (England, 2015)

* Almost a third of teachers quit state sector within five years of qualifying (England, 2016)

* Nearly half of England’s teachers plan to leave in next five years (England, 2016)

* Almost a quarter of teachers who have qualified since 2011 have left (England, 2017)

* Teachers are leaving the profession in their droves (England, 2017)




and so on ad nauseam.