Wesley College granted 150,000 in government grants to resurface their hockey pitch.

Zonda999

Ajsoprano wrote: »

That’s interesting. So they are a normal school but to get in the parents top up the department money to make the school really good.
Surely they should have state funding for facilities just like other schools. My local schools are not fee paying but we have all weather pitches in all of them.

Do people think that because the parents pay to make the local school better we should just take away what they had in the first place?

See this is the real argument about the public vs private thing. There is definitely an argument for the idea that a private school should be truly private and the state should not have to pay the teachers. However, lets call a spade a spade here, if it was like this, the kind of middle class parents who sent their kids to these schools would simply not be able to afford them, or at least a lot less of them would. From a purely social equality point of view, this is surelymore equitable though?

However, in the real world, these parent who make sacrifices to afford these schools for their chil;dren are paying for them to have an advantage in the real world and giving a much better chance of them doing really in life such that its an investment worth making. I'm not sure where I stand on the issue, there are pro's and con's. I can't help but feel though there is definitely something unfair about it and it doesn;t sit completely right with meem

Berserker

Stephen15 wrote: »

No one in Ireland bar a small minority of fee paying girls schools play hockey whereas most children and some adults play football. You could even share them with Gaelic and Rugby. If schools want to play hockey they should fund it themselves.

Firstly, what use is a hockey pitch to others? Secondly, why does everything have to be shared with the GAA? They have countless pitches around Dublin, many of which they refuse to share with other sports, interestingly enough. Finally, you do know that you can rent these pitches out when they are not in use, don't you?

Gatling

Stephen15 wrote: »

Fúcking riddiculous IMO all the local DLR/SDCC/DCC council owned football pitches in South Dublin have been off since before Christmas and that cùnt Ross goes and gives money to build another private pitch which cannot be used by the general public. Start replacing grass pitches with Astros or properly drained grass pitches if

But sdcc and DCC Clubs and pitches got money and regulary get grants ,

super_furry

Stephen15 wrote: »

No one in Ireland bar a small minority of fee paying girls schools play hockey whereas most children and some adults play football. You could even share them with Gaelic and Rugby. If schools want to play hockey they should fund it themselves.

That's nonsense. I grew up and went to school in Tallaght and played it there for my school.

CeilingFly

Stephen15 wrote: »

Fúcking riddiculous IMO all the local DLR/SDCC/DCC council owned football pitches in South Dublin have been off since before Christmas and that cùnt Ross goes and gives money to build another private pitch which cannot be used by the general public. Start replacing grass pitches with Astros or properly drained grass pitches if that's too expensive.

No one in Ireland bar a small minority of fee paying girls schools play hockey whereas most children and some adults play football. You could even share them with Gaelic and Rugby. If schools want to play hockey they should fund it themselves.

You should check facts before ranting rubbish.

ALL wesley pitches including their soccer, rugby, hockey and tennis facilities are available to hire for a small fee by ANY sports club.

Also, almost 300 schools play hockey (boys and girls) - considering there are just 55 fee paying schools in Ireland, the vast majority of players are in non fee paying schools.

But sure why lets facts get in the way of a whine?

JohnnyFlash

There’s a smell of socialist Republican off this thread. Any day now lads......

Stephen15

Berserker wrote: »

Firstly, what use is a hockey pitch to others? Secondly, why does everything have to be shared with the GAA? They have countless pitches around Dublin, many of which they refuse to share with other sports, interestingly enough. Finally, you do know that you can rent these pitches out when they are not in use, don't you?

There are countless GAA and soccer pitches but they're all unplayable for almost half the year unless they are well drained which most are not. The state of some of the Soccer in particular pitches is a disgrace.

I have played football (soccer) on a hockey as my club rents they are crap for football you slip everywhere and if you fall you're knees are destroyed. I'm not against hockey all I am saying is state money shouldn't be pumped into privately owned pitches in private schools. They should be spending the money on state schools and projects which the general public can use.

Stephen15

CeilingFly wrote: »

You should check facts before ranting rubbish.

ALL wesley pitches including their soccer, rugby, hockey and tennis facilities are available to hire for a small fee by ANY sports club.

Also, almost 300 schools play hockey (boys and girls) - considering there are just 55 fee paying schools in Ireland, the vast majority of players are in non fee paying schools.

But sure why lets facts get in the way of a whine?

So the government is spending 150k so Wesley (a private school) can make a profit off renting pitches. Why can't the council build pitches on council land and they could actually be paid off by renting them out.

Gatling

Stephen15 wrote: »

There are countless GAA and soccer pitches but they're all unplayable for almost half the year unless they are well drained which most are not. The state of some of the Soccer in particular pitches

But surely that's a question for local councils to fix they've known about how bad pitches have been for decades and refuse to do anything about it ,
Complainting about a grant given to one single school when hundreds of others got grants too and will do every year

Stephen15

Gatling wrote: »

But surely that's a question for local councils to fix they've known about how bad pitches have been for decades and refuse to do anything about it ,
Complainting about a grant given to one single school when hundreds of others got grants too and will do every year

I don't agree with private fee paying schools getting grants we pay our taxes to schools which we the ordinary working people could never afford to send our kids to. Give the money to non-paying schools which are taxes are meant to fund.

Local authorities can't fix they're pitches because the government won't give them the money.

suicide_circus

The state has a duty to kids who go to fee paying schools too. People on here won't be happy until there is a 100% wealth transference. Socialist utopia indeed.

Stephen15

suicide_circus wrote: »

The state has a duty to kids who go to fee paying schools too. People on here won't be happy until there is a 100% wealth transference. Socialist utopia indeed.

I have no problem with people being wealthy as long they pay for it themselves aren't given stuff which they can well afford for nothing.

Schwanz

Schwanz wrote: »

I'm sure 150,000 would have fed a clothed a lot of homeless.

im sure many multiples of 150k has been used for exactly that

its hardly the only valid use (and far from the best use) of money in the country is it now.

CeilingFly

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't agree with private fee paying schools getting grants we pay our taxes to schools which we the ordinary working people could never afford to send our kids to. Give the money to non-paying schools which are taxes are meant to fund.

Local authorities can't fix they're pitches because the government won't give them the money.

AGAIN - you don't check facts.

Wesley is a SEMI-private schools as are almost all other fee paying schools.##and guess what???

the parents of all those kids are tax payers too.

If we purely went of your assertion that "our taxes pay for our schools" then working class areas would get very very little in the way of education or recreation facilities.

If anything, the parents of kids that go to semi-private schools contribute handsomely to facilities in areas of less affluence due to the ridiculous level of PAYE tax on fairly modest wages.

Gatling

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't agree with private fee paying schools getting grants we pay our taxes to schools which we the ordinary working people could never afford to send our kids to. Give the money to non-paying schools which are taxes are meant to fund.

Local authorities can't fix they're pitches because the government won't give them the money.

We pay taxes and so do they ,I believe they pay more than the majority do ,
But they are entitled to it and so is anyone who applies its equality ,

Local authorities are currently owed 50 million in unpaid rents ,they spent tens of millions on cycle lanes and other various projects ,
They could fix the pitchs but so far have refused to ,

CeilingFly

Stephen15 wrote: »

I have no problem with people being wealthy as long they pay for it themselves aren't given stuff which they can well afford for nothing.

maybe those earning good wages shouldn't pay tax then?

BTW - most parents of wesley pupils would not be considered wealthy. Most live in ballinteer area.

suicide_circus

Stephen15 wrote: »

I have no problem with people being wealthy as long they pay for it themselves aren't given stuff which they can well afford for nothing.

So because these kids go to school x rather than school y they shouldn't get grants to fix their pitch?

Stephen15

Gatling wrote: »

We pay taxes and so do they ,I believe they pay more than the majority do ,
But they are entitled to it and so is anyone who applies its equality ,

Local authorities are currently owed 50 million in unpaid rents ,they spent tens of millions on cycle lanes and other various projects ,
They could fix the pitchs but so far have refused to ,

And they chose to send their send their children to fee paying schools and not get their full monies worth from their taxes. Why can't they send their children to non fee paying schools and get their full money worth from their taxes.

Zebra3

Stephen15 wrote: »

And they chose to send their send their children to fee paying schools and not get their full monies worth from their taxes. Why can't they send their children to non fee paying schools and get their full money worth from their taxes.

So their kids can mingle with the "right type".

yesto24

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't agree with private fee paying schools getting grants we pay our taxes to schools which we the ordinary working people could never afford to send our kids to. Give the money to non-paying schools which are taxes are meant to fund.

Local authorities can't fix they're pitches because the government won't give them the money.

You should really check the fees for these schools before you say you can't afford them.
You may be surprised.

super_furry

yesto24 wrote: »

You should really check the fees for these schools before you say you can't afford them.
You may be surprised.

€6250 a year for Wesley. Someone with two kids is looking at €13,000 per year or €78,000 for the cost of first to sixth year.

nice_guy80

I know secondary schools down the country that don't even have a sports hall.

they're just probably in the wrong part of the country

markodaly

super_furry wrote: »

€6250 a year for Wesley. Someone with two kids is looking at €13,000 per year or €78,000 for the cost of first to sixth year.

Parents pay more for childcare!

super_furry

super_furry wrote: »

€6250 a year for Wesley. Someone with two kids is looking at €13,000 per year or €78,000 for the cost of first to sixth year.

tot up all tge costs relating to school over a 6 year period do you 🙄

Greybottle

Berserker wrote: »

You do know that private schools save the government money, don't you? Secondly, I believe that the government should treat all children equally, irrespective of their background, don't you?

They don't save them money. For every catchment area that ha a private school you also need to keep spaces in public schools open in case people decide not to send their kids to a private one. Witness the huge drop off in places in schools in South Dublin around 2008-09-10 and you'll see what I mean.

markodaly wrote: »

Then again, the boards.ie resident Irish Tommy Robinson is probably angry this is going towards a Methodist School.

I would think that there are very few people here who are aware that Wesley is Methodist and even fewer who would have an issue with it being a Methodist school.


To me the issue here is a huge amount of money directed at a minority sport*, whose facilities are only available to the general public by paying large hourly fees that has been spent in the Ministers own constituency, only a few hundred metres from his own office.

This, as well as the fact that he specifically mentions these in his tweets and not other schools or clubs that money was given to makes this sound a lot like stroke politics to me.

Michael Ring and John O'Donoghue did this in Mayo and Kerry and were rightly roundly slated for it. There's a huge thread in the Cycling forum about Islandeady Cycling Club getting money from the Health section of the Lottery grants for turbo trainers, the only sports club ever to have received money under this allocation.

Sound suspicious? Well, it's Enda Kennys home village and they got the cash when he was Taoiseach. http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/taoiseachs-mayo-village-cycling-club-hits-jackpot-with-lottery-grant/

Shane Ross built his career on the back of outrage over wasteful government spending and critiscising stroke politics. Then he gets in to a Minsiters seat and we get this.

*I've no issue with minority sports.

fleet_admiral

The money should go towards steam cleaning the floor of the disco after a friday night

mikemac2

It would have been more surprising if this didn’t happen OP

Minister in your constituency = goodies

When Alan Kelly was minister for transport he laid on extra train services in Tipp North that tbh nobody asked for and barely used but it got publicity.

As said above Michael Ring was pumping tourism development money into Mayo for years ^^

Even Michael D did it for Galway when he was a minister

Coillte_Bhoy

mikemac2 wrote: »

It would have been more surprising if this didn’t happen OP

Minister in your constituency = goodies

When Alan Kelly was minister for transport he laid on extra train services in Tipp North that tbh nobody asked for and barely used but it got publicity.

As said above Michael Ring was pumping tourism development money into Mayo for years ^^

Even Michael D did it for Galway when he was a minister

What exactly did Michael D do that was out of order?

Unclebumble

Don’t think people who are complaining have read the tweet correctly.
The new Astro turf is at Wesley but will also be used by YMCA Hockey Club which is not part of the school, has been in existence for 100 years, has 5 men’s teams, 2 ladies teams and a large junior section.
If that doesn’t qualify, like plenty of of clubs for a sports grant, then I don’t know what does!
And no, I’m not part of YMCA - just like to know some facts before getting on the Outrage Bus!

Poor Uncle Tom

That scheme is open for all schools to make an application, if you are not in you can't win.

yesto24

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I know secondary schools down the country that don't even have a sports hall.

they're just probably in the wrong part of the country

They probably didn't get their act together and fund raise, build and apply for grants.

Are Am Eye

Just for a sense of balance - Wesley give scholarships to young people from disadvantaged backgrounds who meet target academic level. I don't know the exact numbers and some might say it is a token gesture. But they could as easily not do it.

Ulysses Gaze

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh, edgy and so original.

How about arguing the substantive issue?

If there is so much outrage here for a €150,00 grant for a schools sporting facilities, why no outrage over the richest sporting organisation in the country getting €30 million from the Taxpayer to upgrade a stadium?

lazygal

super_furry wrote: »

€6250 a year for Wesley. Someone with two kids is looking at €13,000 per year or €78,000 for the cost of first to sixth year.

Loads of parents pay more for child care every year. I know we do.

Galwayguy35

Schwanz wrote: »

I'm sure 150,000 would have fed a clothed a lot of homeless.

They get enough money already.

tuisginideach

fleet_admiral wrote: »

The money should go towards steam cleaning the floor of the disco after a friday night

Check your facts. Wesley disco is nowhere near Wesley college.

tuisginideach

CeilingFly wrote: »

Wesley is a SEMI-private schools as are almost all other fee paying schools.##and guess what???

SEMI-private school? What on earth is that? It's not the health service we're talking about.

Greybottle

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

How about arguing the substantive issue?

If there is so much outrage here for a €150,00 grant for a schools sporting facilities, why no outrage over the richest sporting organisation in the country getting €30 million from the Taxpayer to upgrade a stadium?

Because Pairc Ui Chaoimh will regularly sell out it's 45,000 seats. It will also hst dozens of games a year where thousands will attend.

It hosts Gaelic Football, Hurling, Camogie and Ladies Football.

It will host concerts, Ed Sheeran has sold over 100,000 tickets for 3 conderts this May.

It's not a pitch, it's a multi functional venue for arts, sports and conferences in our second biggest city, hosting primarily our two most popular sports. It helps the local economy significantly on many weekends of the year and employs a fair few people full time as well as several hundred part time on event days.

There is a difference.

Gatling

Greybottle wrote: »

Because Pairc Ui Chaoimh will regularly sell out it's 45,000 seats. It will also hst dozens of games a year where thousands will attend.

It hosts Gaelic Football, Hurling, Camogie and Ladies Football.

It will host concerts, Ed Sheeran has sold over 100,000 tickets for 3 conderts this May.

It's not a pitch, it's a multi functional venue for arts, sports and conferences in our second biggest city,

So it's a profit making venue ,but yet the GAA get sports grants for it

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

The only reason this is making headlines is because money is spent on the middle class.

You've a very 19th-century understanding of sport and its politics in Dublin if you think English sports and fee-charging anglocentric schools are synonymous with the "middle class" in Dublin in 2018. Not even close to the reality. Although the GAA haters would love if it could go back to the glory days of John Bull's sports being the sports of the powerful in this city and the days when the British Army directly organised soccer in Ireland (It's not called the garrison game for nothing!). In reality, sport has always been deeply political in this city - it's far from coincidental that every single one of the 27 fee-charging schools in Dublin - mostly controlled by the great collaborators of Irish history, the Roman Catholic Church - still apes the sport of the powerful under British colonial rule, rugby. To think taxes from a sovereign Irish republic in 2018 subsidise that Irish culture-hating colonial hangover is galling.

Thanks be to Jesus for the Fenians, Parnell, Michael Cusack, Conradh na Gaeilge and the Easter Rising for keeping the flame of well over a millennium of Irish cultural distinctiveness alive when every cultural cringe lowly educated Johnny-come-lately Irish knacker was (and still is) trying to emulate the coloniser's sport and wider culture. Amen.

lazygal

lazygal wrote: »

Loads of parents pay more for child care every year. I know we do.

Amen to that, too. My childcare costs in fees alone are slightly over €25,000 per annum so I'm decidedly unimpressed by the notions of these clowns who are trying to big up their €6,500 per annum fees for some outdated anglocentric secondary school in south Dublin. It's taking these parents a while to realise power has shifted and that Europe, not Britain, is where the power is now.

Zebra3

The British Army has never directly run football in this country.

Unlike that evil foreign cult that was deeply entrenched with the Gah mafia bartering kids in to playing their crap sports.

Doubt any of that gets a mention in their museum.

Guy:Incognito

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

What exactly did Michael D do that was out of order?

Going by this thread every penny spent in a ministers constituency is a disgrace.

Greybottle

Greybottle wrote: »

Michael Ring and John O'Donoghue did this in Mayo and Kerry and were rightly roundly slated for it....
Shane Ross built his career on the back of outrage over wasteful government spending and critiscising stroke politics. Then he gets in to a Minsiters seat and we get this.

This, a million times. Let's not forget before Ross reinvented himself, he was the biggest cheerleader of Seán Fitzpatrick and Michael Fingleton, calling them "superstars" and wanting the former appointed to the Central Bank of Ireland. This all happened after he regularly told readers in the Sunday Independent to sell Eircom shares, the price dropped and in rode his boss, "Sir Anthony", to buy Eircom shares cheaply. Then, Ross advised readers to buy Eircom shares because O'Reilly was now involved. Shares went up, O'Reilly sold up at a massive profit. Such impartial journalism indeed.

The last person in Ireland who can lecture anybody about "ethics" is Shane Ross and all this stroke politics from Stepaside to Wesley with Irish taxpayers' money is more of the same from that arch sycophant of powerful people.

Still a great read: Brendan Burgess's open letter to Shane Ross (2011)

Zebra3

Zebra3 wrote: »

The British Army has never directly run football in this country.

In the two other places to see soccer emerge in Munster at the time, Tipperary and Limerick, the military influence certainly does appear to be more noticeable.... These military connections would see the club listed by South Tipperary No. 3 Brigade of the IRA as one of the enemy institutions in the area in 1921.... In Limerick, one of the early important civilian sides, Limerick AFC, founded in 1908, certainly relied on local military sides to provide them with opponents. Yet, their efforts paid off as a promoter of the game: by 1912, more civilian soccer teams began to emerge in the city. In Munster, the growth of soccer reveals a complex relationship between the military and civilian teams.

One area where military dominance was obvious was in the committee of the local governing body of the sport, the Munster Football Association, which had been founded in 1901. But the strong military presence on that committee was in fact resented and often a negative for the game’s development among the civilian population. The official control of the game by the military meant that soccer was played on Saturday afternoons, usually between three and four p.m, when many civilians were still at work. In the round up of the 1908/1909 season, “Centre Forward” had noted that, ‘A great obstacle to the games in Cork being attended is the lack of a general half-holiday, and I venture to predict that when that drawback is eliminated the attendance at local Soccer matches will far exceed that of past seasons.’

.... With so many players and organisers in the military, winter-time furlough (a break for soldiers for the months of December and January) also played a significant role in the shape of the season and was the root cause of the cluttered pre-Christmas calendar of fixtures. So, in some years football could halt for close on two months, taking much of the steam out of the leagues and competitions, particularly for the civilian sides. All of this led to supreme dissatisfaction amongst civilian clubs...

More here: The Garrison Game: soccer's foreign image in Irish popular culture

lawred2

Ajsoprano wrote: »

At the end of the day ask yourself where would these kids be if there were no fee paying schools.

In public schools using all the money.

So a private school saves the taxpayer money.

Why shouldn’t they get a bit of funding when they pay for their own teachers and heating and stuff.

If it was found that they got a disproportionate amount of funding I’d be annoyed but disadvantages areas get funding too.

Doesn't the state pay the teachers?

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

Doesn't the state pay the teachers?

Yes, the vast, vast majority of teachers in fee-charging schools are paid by the state. Latin teachers, rugby coaches, school libraries and the like are almost always paid out of the school's own resources -but they get extensive state grants to help develop buildings on their own private land as long as they are used for education. A mess of a system: the state should only be funding state-owned schools rather than directing millions into these private organisations. Long overdue for change.

kumate_champ07

super_furry wrote: »

Good man Shane Ross, the South County Dublin Healy-Rae.

"he fixed the hockey pitches!"

Zebra3

[Deleted User] wrote: »

More here: The Garrison Game: soccer's foreign image in Irish popular culture

So there were figures involved in football who were also members of the foreign occupation. But it doesn’t show that the sport was directly controlled by the occupying forces.

And you’ve refused to acknowledge the violence against Irish children by members of a foreign cult in support of the Gah.

Would you care to comment on this?

Or does it not fit into the bogballers deluded self-image of Irishness?

They seem to have no problem speaking the language of the occupier 24/7.

VinLieger

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes, the vast, vast majority of teachers in fee-charging schools are paid by the state. Latin teachers, rugby coaches, school libraries and the like are almost always paid out of the school's own resources -but they get extensive state grants to help develop buildings on their own private land as long as they are used for education. A mess of a system: the state should only be funding state-owned schools rather than directing millions into these private organisations. Long overdue for change.

Every child in private education costs the state half the amount of a child in public education.

Explain to me please how the state would cope with the sudden removal of the subsidy when thousands of students suddenly need to be put into public schools, whatever about the cost there is simply no room for it to happen currently.