P2P Lending

ShoulderChip

sk8board wrote: »

This is the inherent risk with any business reliant on crowd-funding, the crowd is really a herd, and one bad experience that could mean joe public investors lose their savings and you’ll end up severely hurt/wound up.

I’m now only in mintos and grupeer. Mintos are simply big enough to suffer a couple of bad originators, and their experience losing a few 18 months ago will stand to them. I have a LOT of exclusions on my auto invest and avg 9.9% returns currently. As safe as I can make it really.
I have Grupeer for no major reason bar Irish registered and buyback guarantees.

P2P platforms simply MUST keep their nose clean 24/7/365 or they will be killed by the herd abandoning them.

Heck, there are people on this thread withdrawing from platforms based on gut feeling alone - imagine if you had hard data?! You’ve be gone in a flash.
It’s a massively risky investment whatever the returns.

hi, would you be willing to share a screenshot of your Mintos autoinvest filters please?

FFVII

ShoulderChip wrote: »

hi, would you be willing to share a screenshot of your Mintos autoinvest filters please?

Do your own. You'll kick your self down the line if a box tick copied loses you lots

Takes a good few hours to do it right and still needs a fair few tweaks.

The more refined it is is risky to.

Staying on in work earns you more without the risks.

sk8board

ShoulderChip wrote: »

hi, would you be willing to share a screenshot of your Mintos autoinvest filters please?

I researched the more trusted online review sources of the Minto's originators - there are decent sites that have the audited financial results for each one (where available) etc, and they compare the mintos grading, versus their own. cross-reference that against research on countries and loan types, and I end up with this, (copied from my auto-invest):

Loan Originator (22/62)
Rating (4/8)
Loan Type (5/8)
Country (12/32)

The only thing I adjust is the % interest rate, which I float from 9-10% depending on loan availability or cash drag, maybe once a month, or even less.

with the conditions above, loans at 11.5% are as high as I've seen.

Timmaay

Mintos has invest and access, and Bondoras go and grow, both offer a lower interest rate (in around 7%) for apparently a safer method of investing, however neither have your capital garanteed. Would I be right in thinking neither are worth leaving money in, and instead just invest in the normal auto invests with myown filters put in to try and diversity across LO and staying away from loans with low ratings.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

The Kuetzal telegram discussion is a sh*tshow. Further revelations in recent days. :eek:

Looks like good news regarding the Monego loans on Mintos. I've received a significant chunk of the 60+ late loans in the last couple of days.

I have now exited Envestio and FastInvest. All funds withdrawn and back in my account. Winding down Robo.cash, most of the loans I could sell are now sold.

Next step is to figure out where to invest the funds now.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Anyone following Envestio on twitter? They seem to have lost the plot (linky) with the chap Roasted Peer Duck. Pretty unprofessional from Envestio.

Shelflife

Yup, very unprofessional, all they’re doing is fanning the flames by giving the Duck oxygen.

Shelflife

Well the Duck tweets took an unexpected twist !!!


I have received a multiple threat to my family. I am deleting this account as it's a question of staying alive. In case something will happens to me all docs and info I have are at a custodian lawyer who will publish it in international press. Take care.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Wowzers. The account is deleted already. Take everything with a pinch of salt of course.

Shelflife wrote: »

Well the Duck tweets took an unexpected twist !!!


I have received a multiple threat to my family. I am deleting this account as it's a question of staying alive. In case something will happens to me all docs and info I have are at a custodian lawyer who will publish it in international press. Take care.

Shelflife

Not looking good at Envestio

Dear Investors,
We would like to address all our clients, investors, borrowers and other counterparties with the following very important issue. We proudly declare that till present moment Envestio managed to fulfill on time and in good faith all financial obligations to all contractual investors and borrowers, despite the very unfavorable situation in the crowdfunding market, provoked by the uncertainty and potential fail of Kuetzal platform.

Simultaneously with the recent concerns within the industry, we tracked repeatedly various technical attempts targeted to influence dramatically on stability of Envestio platform. They were performed through hacker attacks on our web site and platform's internal structure and database.

At the same time, we noticed that destructive public relations campaign against Envestio has been initiated and which consisted of spreading knowingly false and unconfirmed information by numerous internet resources questioning financial stability and reliability of our platform, denigrating the reputation of the Envestio owners and key employees.

We tend to consider these attempts as a consistent and well-planned set of actions aimed to cause significant financial and reputational damage, as a result of which the Envestio platform should inevitably begin to experience substantial difficulties with current payments to its investors.

We assume that the ultimate goal of all these actions is to devalue overall Envestio's business, and the subsequent potential raider takeover of the company or an attempt to eliminate the company from the industry, getting rid of as strong competitor. The implementation of the aforementioned scenario is evidenced by a number of factors and hostile actions that occurred precisely at the moment when a serious crisis of confidence reigned in the crowdfunding market and which actually was caused by the scandal surrounding the activities of the Kuetzal platform.

Envestio strongly condemns any actions aimed at further destabilizing the current crowdfunding market situation and disrupting the activity of the Envestio platform, as these factors together can lead to an uncontrolled solvency crisis, influencing not only Envestio but also other industry participants.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Pity, I liked Envestio...although I am glad I got out.

There have been a few negative comments surrounding Grupeer mixed in with all the panic. Does anyone have any more information on Grupeer?

Timmaay

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

Pity, I liked Envestio...although I am glad I got out.

There have been a few negative comments surrounding Grupeer mixed in with all the panic. Does anyone have any more information on Grupeer?

And now their website is down! Thank god I didn't actually lodge anything with them! Grupeer don't have a 2ndry market to sell to and get out if you want to early ugh.

Timmaay

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

Pity, I liked Envestio...although I am glad I got out.

There have been a few negative comments surrounding Grupeer mixed in with all the panic. Does anyone have any more information on Grupeer?

And now their website is down! Thank god I didn't actually lodge anything with them! Grupeer don't have a 2ndry market to sell to and get out if you want to early ugh.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

It would appear there was a run on Envestio and having the 'early exit' option didn't help.

As you mentioned, Grupeer don't have a secondary market or early exit option. I am still invested in Grupeer btw.

FFVII

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

It would appear there was a run on Envestio and having the 'early exit' option didn't help.

As you mentioned, Grupeer don't have a secondary market or early exit option. I am still invested in Grupeer btw.

What did you actually read about grupeer??

Repeating some bullsh1t comments is only stirring it??

Envestio are their own enemy giving the duck air.

FFVII

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

It would appear there was a run on Envestio and having the 'early exit' option didn't help.

As you mentioned, Grupeer don't have a secondary market or early exit option. I am still invested in Grupeer btw.

I'd imagine it's like the stock markets?

Plug the plug until **** calms down and then back to business.

sk8board

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

Pity, I liked Envestio...although I am glad I got out.

There have been a few negative comments surrounding Grupeer mixed in with all the panic. Does anyone have any more information on Grupeer?

I haven’t seen a word mentioned about grupeer - can you update?

secondary markets and early exit options create a back door for people to leave, however as it’s almost entirely amateur investors, a run is easy to start and hard to stop. Grupeer has neither, so any ‘run’ would turn into a 12 month slow cycle race.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Will try and find them in the morning, mostly tweets I think. So the obvs warnings apply for Twitter. That peer duck guy mentioned it a few times and I went looking for more.

Edit:I joined a few of the telegram groups and they are a rambling mess.

Edit 2:
I don't want to provide any incorrect or misleading information on Grupeer, so I reached out to them for comment in relation to the current situation with Keutzal and Envestio.
I received a relatively positive reply this morning. To summarize... they expected some platforms to fail, they welcome regulation and are happy to work with other platforms to strengthen transparency and responsible lending in the industry. A standard enough response perhaps?
Also, management are expected to make a statement regarding recent events in the p2p industry.

FFVII

I read that somewhere about the platforms coming together....can't remember where.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Monethera have disabled the option to repurchase investments as of yesterday 21st Jan for 30 days or until market stabilizes. blog post here

Shelflife

A bit peeved with Envestio, I had requested about 90% of by money on Monday 13th but looks like I just missed the cut. Ive written it off already , their silence is damning. If they were legit all they had to do was suspend the buybacks for a while until the heat died down or pay people off as their share was sold- an informal secondary market as it were. Monethera have the right idea.

The only bad news ive seen about Grupeer was similar to Peerberry they dont have a secondary market and for that reason they wouldnt recommend it.

FFVII

Jorgens blog is gonna be some read.

His figures say he has 50K+ in Envestio and that other one.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

He used to publish what he made from referrals. It was pretty significant. I would have to assume that most of his P2P funds came from referrals.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Mintos Blog - How to choose a crowdlending platform (link)

PeerBerry Blog - Aventus Group posted a net profit of 12.6 million Eur in 2019 (link)
Aventus Group makes up about 80% of the loans on PeerBerry, Gofingo 15% and Lithome 5%.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Why are Mintos spending so much time and resources into building an "app". FFS, could they not focus on fixing the numerous problems with the website? Or perhaps add some new features.

ganmo

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

Why are Mintos spending so much time and resources into building an "app". FFS, could they not focus on fixing the numerous problems with the website? Or perhaps add some new features.

The amount of ppl that wont use a website for stuff is fairly big so for them it's a way of targeting a new audience

FFVII

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

Why are Mintos spending so much time and resources into building an "app". FFS, could they not focus on fixing the numerous problems with the website? Or perhaps add some new features.

They don't want to fix the site. They would have if they were going to.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Lenndy posted a statement on their blog in relation to recent events - 'business as usual' (blog post)

littlevillage

Have been reading Jorgen's blog/website at


https://financiallyfree.eu/my-portfolio/


Its a great read. ��

and some of the other cats that he'd linked to.

https://www.onemillionjourney.com/porfolio/
https://www.thewealthyfinn.com/


But the amounts of money these guys have invested in P2P/Crowd Funding is mind Boggling. up around 200k... etc.
I know they typically have other stuff in their portfolios too like Property, Stocks, Bonds etc. and they make money from referrrals and advertising

But they got a mighty wake up call with Kuetzal .... and how many other Kuetzal's are out there ?

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Obviously you have to take everything you read online with a pinch of salt but you have to wonder if any of those blogs are real. I haven't a breeze whether to believe any of it now. I have always looked forward to reading Jorgen's blog and I am looking forward to his next update early next week. He is getting fierce abuse online, as are some of the other bloggers. I would presume death threats mixed in there too.

littlevillage

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

Obviously you have to take everything you read online with a pinch of salt but you have to wonder if any of those blogs are real. I haven't a breeze whether to believe any of it now. I have always looked forward to reading Jorgen's blog and I am looking forward to his next update early next week. He is getting fierce abuse online, as are some of the other bloggers. I would presume death threats mixed in there too.

Yeah, you would wonder wouldn't ya? Are they just inflating their investments to gain kudos and followers/Referrals etc.

They might actually be only very small time investors... and their "real" income is the meagre few quid they make off the affilate referrals and the advertising :rolleyes:

mike_cork

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

Lenndy posted a statement on their blog in relation to recent events - 'business as usual' (blog post)

Crowdestor have done the same today

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

I see that. Presume it's ok to post the email?

"
Dear investors,



Recent fraudulent and dishonourable activities carried out by several crowdfunding platforms has been a big shock for all involved in this industry, has caused huge losses to more than 15 000 investors and has seriously damaged the reputation and trust of crowdfunding in general.

We are receiving hundreds and hundreds of emails with questions:

Is CROWDESTOR financially stable? Is CROWDESTOR going to face “Bank-run”?
Is CROWDESTOR running business in a legitimate way? Can you prove that you are not “Ponzi”?
Are your Borrowers real companies or empty shells with no real operations?
Can you become more transparent?
Can I with withdraw funds before Loan term?


We have been trying to answer individually to each question by all means of communication to our furthest extent, but in case if some of you haven’t received an answer yet, we hope this statement will help.

We want to inform our investors with the following.



About financial stability of CROWDESTOR

CROWDESTOR has never offered “Buy-Back with a penalty at any time”, “Crowdestor Care with Buy-Back” or other weird, but well know combinations of words. We haven’t offered this as CROWDESTOR wouldn’t have funds to cover such claims in full amount in a legally correct way even if 10% of investors would ask for early exit. CROWDESTOR earns 3-5% from raised funds, which is a market typical average. The money earned is then spent on the payroll, administrative, marketing costs, IT costs and further development. So it is simply to do the maths. CROWDESTOR, as a platform, in essence, is a mediator between investors and borrowers, a marketplace.

So we are not experiencing increased/uncontrollable out-flow of capital and we are not going to face the so-called “Bank-run”.



Is CROWDESTOR legit?

CROWDESTOR is not offering the Ponzi-type early exit by paying out investors funds which are raised from new investors.

Investors funds are held in a dedicated bank account, separate from CROWDESTOR operative funds. Since first day of operations CROWDESTOR bank account is opened in the LHV Bank, a reputable bank founded in 1999 with half-billion EUR assets on its balance sheet. We have AML procedures in place and are cooperating with a bank on any questions they ask on our operations.

CROWDESTOR transfers money to Borrowers, the Borrowers are real existing companies, funds are used for the Loan purpose. For each deal CROWDESTOR performs due diligence.

Investors see “real funds” in their investors account not virtual funds as it has been the case in other platforms noticed by a large number of investors in last 2 weeks.

We are eagerly waiting and ready to support development of ECSP regulation in EU level (European Crowdfunding Service Providers), which would decrease potential fraudulent and dishonest activities in crowdfunding industry. Our aim is to be amongst the first ones to receive it.

We are also ready to initiate an establishment of Association which would join members who share same goals.



What are we going to do next?

We understand that today, when an enormously huge number of people have been cheated and the whole industry is damaged, these seem just words from us. But we will take great pains and do real actions to regain the reputation and trust in us and industry in general.

Currently we are working on a detailed action/development plan how CROWDESTOR in Year 2020 becomes more transparent, more open to investors, improves process standardization, becomes more automated etc. We will present action plan by end of February, beginning of March 2020. The plan will include topics regarding:

Transparency. We plan to disclose as much information as possible in following areas:
Borrowers. More financial information, info on management, contacts, registration documents. All possible information to extent not disclosing confidential information on borrowers.
Partners. We plan to show you with that partners do we work on due diligence, legal, banks, KYC and all other possible partners.
Team. To make our team more public - shareholders and management will be show on our website, with detailed CVs, experience and links to LinkedIn.
Decision making. Creating and presenting an understandable and transparent procedure on how we make our due diligence and finally a decision on what project to put next.
Technology.
How we will automate due diligence. We see great potential in maximally automating the decision making of borrowers risk assessment.
How we will implement united risk assessment/scoring.
Growth
We have our growth plan and on how we see CROWDESTOR in future. Plans consider expansion, process standardization, strengthening the team, following and aligning to regulation.
Investors meeting
We are going to organize webinars with our investors to answer their questions. More information will follow.
We plan to organize twice per year Investors-Borrowers meetings in cities across Europe giving an opportunity for investors to meet Borrowers and CROWDESTOR in real life, socializing, getting more information about them and CROWDESTOR. More information will follow.


Early exit option

As mentioned previously, CROWDESTOR does not provide Early exit option.

However, during last 2 weeks we receive numerous emails with questions if it is possible to exit.

In the light of recent shocking news, we understand and respect this. We have agreed with several investors who would consider to buy-out a part of other investors loan with a discount in projects which we have funded.

This will not be a buy-out made by CROWDESTOR. This will be a buy-out from other investor/investors, so it will not make any burden or profit to CROWDESTOR books.

In couple of days we will establish a procedure how to submit an application for an Early exit and we will follow up with more explanation.



Last but not least

We invite prospective honourable investors to be vigilant and diligent before committing their financial resources to any platform and please pay attention to any small details – is the management presented in webpage, who are the real decision makers, what is the background of owners and management, do they had real, proved business before, do you know who are the beneficial owners of platform, where is the legal and factual address of platform, where does the platform has bank account, did it had interruption in sending out the money, etc, etc.



29.01.2019

Best regards
Janis Timma
Founder & CEO of CROWDESTOR
"

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Decided to try see how long deposits/withdrawals take on a few platforms.

Deposits:

Mintos - same day
Grupeer - next morning
ViaInvest - next morning
Lenndy - same day
TWINO - next morning
Viventor - next morning
Swaper - next morning
PeerBerry - next morning
Bondster - next morning
Crowdestor - next morning
EstateGuru - next morning
RoboCash - next morning
DoFinance - next morning
Bondora - next morning

Withdrawals:
Mintos - next day
Grupeer - next day
ViaInvest - next day
Lenndy - next day
TWINO - pending...
Viventor - same day
Swaper - next day
PeerBerry - same day
Bondster - next day
Crowdestor - next day
EstateGuru - 3 working days
RoboCash - 6 working days
DoFinance - 4 working days
Bondora - same day
FastInvest - 3 working days

I am including the day I deposited/withdrew the funds and also the day the funds were in my account.

Pending - I have made a withdrawl request and waiting for funds to hit my account.
TBD - To Be Done. Only TWINO left.

Edit: Updated list. Withdrawal from TWINO now requested. I hope the list is useful for others.

littlevillage

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

Decided to try see how long deposits/withdrawals take on a few platforms.

Deposits:

Mintos - same day
Grupeer - next morning
ViaInvest - next morning
Lenndy - same day
TWINO - next morning
Viventor - next morning
Swaper - next morning
PeerBerry - next morning
Bondster - next morning
Crowdestor - next morning
EstateGuru - next morning
RoboCash - next morning
DoFinance - next morning
Bondora - next morning

Withdrawals:
Mintos - TBD
Grupeer - next day
ViaInvest - TBD
Lenndy - TBD
TWINO - TBD
Viventor - same day
Swaper - TBD
PeerBerry - same day
Bondster - next day
Crowdestor - next day
EstateGuru - 3 working days
RoboCash - 6 working days
DoFinance - 4 working days
Bondora - TBD
FastInvest - 3 working days

I am including the day I deposited/withdrew the funds and also the day the funds were in my account.

More to follow.

What does TBD stand for ? (e. To Be Discovered)

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

I cannot update my previous post, but my TWINO withdrawal took 4 days.

mike_cork

Aforti mail sent by mintos just now.
Seems like very positive news:

You are receiving this email as an investor on Mintos with active investments in loans issued by Aforti Finance.


Aforti Finance payment schedule agreed and additional security established


We have worked out an agreement between Mintos and Aforti Finance that establishes a payment schedule for the outstanding negative settlement of debt Aforti had accumulated towards investors on Mintos and Mintos marketplace. The agreement also provides an extra layer of security to investors’ claims towards Aforti Finance.


According to the payment schedule, Aforti Finance will make daily payments for a total of no less than EUR 150 000 per month, starting from February 2020. The payments will be directed to cover the older debt first, starting with debt that accumulated towards investors before automatic repayments and loan buybacks for loans originated by Aforti Finance were suspended on August 7, 2019 and was initially covered by Mintos. All current late payments to investors will also be covered starting with the oldest ones.


We expect that investors will start receiving funds at the end of March 2020. All accumulated debt towards investors should be cleared by February 2021.


Given the extension of the debt term, Aforti Finance will provide additional security to its investors who hold investments in Aforti Finance issued loans. Aforti Finance obligation towards investors has now been collateralized with a pledge on other loan receivables in an amount of EUR 1.9 million. Added to this, a notarial act has been created that will enable to enforce the security in a rapid manner, if the payment schedule isn’t met.


Given the circumstances, we believe this deal to be in the best interests of the investors involved. We thank you for the patience and understanding you’ve granted to us.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Good news on Aforti.

Mintos also sent an update relating to Rapido Finance. Only investors with Rapido loans received the email. Anyone care to share the email here? I was not invested with Rapido Finance so did not receive the email.

Mintos have update their site with a new "Investing dashboard". it seems to summarize "Invest & Access", "Auto Invest" and "Manual Investing" onto one page.

One More Toy

Just wondering how do you report this to the taxman each year?

FFVII

One More Toy wrote: »

Just wondering how do you report this to the taxman each year?

Taxed like you earned it.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/ebrief/2018/no-0892018.aspx

One More Toy

FFVII wrote: »

Taxed like you earned it.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/ebrief/2018/no-0892018.aspx

Do mintos give an annual report showing interest earned and bad debts etc? Tia

FFVII

One More Toy wrote: »

Do mintos give an annual report showing interest earned and bad debts etc? Tia

They do. You box tick what you want and download.

They all do now I think. A few you had to request it from last year.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Viventor official statement here. Interesting read.

Shelflife

Good to see stuff like this coming out, let’s tell the punter that we’re not profitable yet but plan to be later this year, that it’s all part of the big picture.

That sounds so much better than someone “exposing” the fact that they aren’t making any money.

They are in the main young companies who have a lot to learn about the whole business world and the art of getting out in front of issues and explaining it on their terms rather than trying to explain the “exposè”

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

TWINO just added a new category called "Ventures" (link)

"TWINO Ventures is a investment offering by TWINO that provides broad investment opportunities in real-estate industry"

Edit: More information from TWINO. To summarize: Secured loan offerings, backed by collateral from borrower, launching later this month. First project is real estate in Latvia.

FFVII

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

TWINO just added a new category called "Ventures" (link)

"TWINO Ventures is a investment offering by TWINO that provides broad investment opportunities in real-estate industry"

Edit: More information from TWINO. To summarize: Secured loan offerings, backed by collateral from borrower, launching later this month. First project is real estate in Latvia.

Q1,
Whats repo like over there?

Shelflife

So in light of the latest update from Mintos and Viventor on Aforti , is anyone tempted in the Aforti loans on Viventor wth up to a 27% discount ?

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

I thought I posted yesterday asking the same question. There were 40% discounts on loans yesterday, my question was... is it worth the risk?

sk8board

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

Viventor official statement here. Interesting read.

I'm more surprised that their registered investors is only 7,500, with active investors being far lower.
Mintos have about 250,000 now (215k last November), and Grupeer say they have 26,000.

It makes me wonder how long those smaller platforms can survive without running out of cash or being consolidated.

Minto's biggest plus-point is its scale.

mike_cork

https://www.iuvo-group.com/en/iuvo-ceases-work-with-bbg/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=campaign&utm_campaign=en&utm_source=%5B12.09.2019%5D+EN+All+Subscribers&utm_campaign=ae7d11183d-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_02_11_03_13_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_05181820d2-ae7d11183d-234568509

IUVO CEASES WORK WITH BUSINESS BANK GROUP, GEORGIA
FEBRUARY 12 2020
Iuvo ceases work with the Originator BBG due to delayed payments on the side of the Georgian company.

After a serious accident with the person in charge the company is hindered to operate with its funds and to function normally for a long period of time. As a consequence, BBG has suspended payment of its obligations towards iuvo at the moment, which is the reason for our decision.

Another factor is the complicated business situation on the non-bank lending market in Georgia, as well as the significant depreciation of the local currency. The National Bank of Georgia implemented variety of restrictions for the non-bank financial institutions, among which is an APR limit, which created serious difficulties for all companies on the market.

BBG’s share in iuvo’s wallet is minimal – under 0.4%. The investors that are directly affected are under 1.7%. All leagal measures have been taken in order to refund their invested amount. Meetings with representatives of the company are taking place at the moment to discuss the next steps.

Ivaylo Ivanov, CEO of iuvo: “We have taken all needed actions to protect the interests of our investors. Our team is here to personally answer all additional questions and to provide all affected investors with any information.”

Iuvo is the P2P platform with the strictest rules for accepting Loan Originators on its Market. As a result, the number of similar cases and their consequences are reduced to a minimum.

Iuvo started its activity in 2016, and since then has established itself as a trusted partner to over 18 000 investors from over 130 countries who have generated over 100 million Euro turnover on the platform. The average annual return of our investors is 9.2%.