P2P Lending

RevenueLand

Your point of view is interesting, but I don't agree with everything.
Some European platforms are quite transparent about borrowers and intermediaries.
I try (with the limited means at my disposal as a private investor) to invest with common sense also in certain P2P lending.
I succeed with profit and minimal losses for more than 4 years, I don't "claim victory", but I recognize that it's not going bad at all.
After all, this is a limited part of my global portfolio.

I enjoy it, even if the odds are ...stacked against me.

RevenueLand

Since I don't like late loans I scanned the loan book on Estateguru.

What I've found out is that some loan types in some counties have been performing better than other.

The best performing loans by country are:

Latvia is slightly better for development and business loans
Estonia is good for Bridge and development loans
Finland is good for Bridge and development loans
Lithuania is my best for bridge and business loans

As I said I'm just an investor, so take what I share with a grain of salt.

I may be wrong and the study is not scientific.

⭕️ The full Estateguru review is on RevenueLand and is updated to 2020

retalivity

Grupeer resolved their "technical issues" and started crediting investors again, but still cant withdraw. The potential legal action seems to have lit a fire under them

RevenueLand

That's good news. I believe (and hope) that a large part of the non-Russian investments are recoverable. The site is still online, if they wanted to escape with the money they would have done it already.

sKeith

Robocash increases their max deposit limit from €10,000 total to €15,000 per month or €180,000 per year.

More info: https://bit.ly/2Y6UGjM

FFVII

sKeith wrote: »

Robocash increases their max deposit limit from €10,000 total to €15,000 per month or €180,000 per year.

More info: https://bit.ly/2Y6UGjM

hehehe. Not many gonna be going near that.

Noob Investor

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

Is now the time to avoid p2p lending with the uncertainty of covid?

No, I don't think so. To my knowledge, the lending business model is very agile, which means that they are able to adjust to the demand for loans. Maybe some more loans will default, but I don't think it will be by a game-changing amount.

Most of the European p2p lending platforms (reference) have been able to scale down operations to match the current environment.

mountgomery burns

Anyone familiar with IBAN wallet?

I have a family member contemplating using their service. The concern they had was around privacy and sending their identification to them, though I would expect this all falls under GDPR legislation. Would the CBI be able to identify the EMI the platform uses?

I'm skeptical about P2P lending though these are at least collateralised loans. I am a bit wary of the lack of transparency however as the money is held at an unidentified EMI who in turn use 3rd party underwriters for lending. On the surface doesn't seem like there is a high degree of visibility for the consumer as to where there money ultimately ends up.

RevenueLand

One thing I did not like is that last year they moved to Croatia (robocash) without any explanation. Another thing that I do not like is that they do not present statistics (at least to me who am not registered) and that the site is neither in Croatian nor Latvian. I prefer platforms that also offer loans in the language of the countries where they are registered.

RevenueLand

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Anyone familiar with IBAN wallet?

I have a family member contemplating using their service. The concern they had was around privacy and sending their identification to them, though I would expect this all falls under GDPR legislation. Would the CBI be able to identify the EMI the platform uses?

I'm skeptical about P2P lending though these are at least collateralised loans. I am a bit wary of the lack of transparency however as the money is held at an unidentified EMI who in turn use 3rd party underwriters for lending. On the surface doesn't seem like there is a high degree of visibility for the consumer as to where there money ultimately ends up.

⭕️They say they use P2P loans but they did not disclose yet what loans and who is issuing those loans.
So you a re right, there is a lack of transparency.
It's a pity, because lots of investors would use such service to invest hands-free.
One more issue is the managing team. I've asked to have the LinkedIn accounts of the CEO, COO.
No answer yet.

So I went to Lursoft to search for "New Generation Market SIA" (which is supposedly I.W.) and the owner appears to be a french afghan guy.
Too many mysteries.

The safeguard fund is also a mystery in size and shape.

Recently I wrote an extensive ibanwallet review on RevenueLand.

⭕️I will wait until I have these answers before performing my test.

I don't know about privacy question you ask. If you a re worried about if they report to your country or not I'd say "virtually yes", in truth I don't think so.

watwag

Does anyone know if P2P losses can be offset against other investment gains or in any other way with Revenue? Got stung with Envestio unfortunately.

RevenueLand

watwag wrote: »

Does anyone know if P2P losses can be offset against other investment gains or in any other way with Revenue? Got stung with Envestio unfortunately.

As far as I know only in the UK this is (partially) possible. I am sorry not to have more details to provide you.

flycd

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Anyone familiar with IBAN wallet?

I have a family member contemplating using their service. The concern they had was around privacy and sending their identification to them, though I would expect this all falls under GDPR legislation. Would the CBI be able to identify the EMI the platform uses?

I'm skeptical about P2P lending though these are at least collateralised loans. I am a bit wary of the lack of transparency however as the money is held at an unidentified EMI who in turn use 3rd party underwriters for lending. On the surface doesn't seem like there is a high degree of visibility for the consumer as to where there money ultimately ends up.

I’ve been using since October 2019, nice to see the daily interest accumulating.
I have a few promo codes for additional interest for the first 30 days and bonus for the first deposit. PM me for details.

RevenueLand

flycd wrote: »

I’ve been using since October 2019, nice to see the daily interest accumulating.
I have a few promo codes for additional interest for the first 30 days and bonus for the first deposit. PM me for details.

So you don't mind if the CEO and management names are not public? You trust them anyway? I mean, you can do what you like but it is complicated to find out if they are reliable if even such trivial questions stay unanswered. I wrote them a couple of email with questions but still waiting for the answers.

breakingeven

Hi guys quick question.

I want to start investing in P2P lending and Ive been searching for this everywhere but there isnt a lot people talking about it.

1 - Is it worth it due to taxation?
2 - how bad does revenue taxes(%)?
3 - Can we claim those taxesback at some point in the future?
4 - in websites like Bondora they say we dont to deal with taxes untill the moment you withdrawl the money? Has anybody done this?


There's a huge GAP in the financial Liarecy in Ireland noone is alking about it.

Thank you all.

Jim2007

breakingeven wrote: »

Hi guys quick question.

I want to start investing in P2P lending and Ive been searching for this everywhere but there isnt a lot people talking about it.

1 - Is it worth it due to taxation?
2 - how bad does revenue taxes(%)?
3 - Can we claim those taxesback at some point in the future?
4 - in websites like Bondora they say we dont to deal with taxes untill the moment you withdrawl the money? Has anybody done this?


There's a huge GAP in the financial Liarecy in Ireland noone is alking about it.

Thank you all.

Are you an expert in subprime lending? Do you recon you are better at risk management than the professional who will not touch these borrowers? Because that is what P2P lending is... a fancy name for subprime lending.

With P2P there are two sure winners - the person getting the loan and the loan facilitator and one potential looser should it all go wrong - you, the one making the loan.

The reason that the suggest payout is so high is because you are the one that knows the least about the transaction and the one taking on the bulk of the risk. It is not magic.

The rest is up to you.

FFVII

breakingeven wrote: »

Hi guys quick question.

I want to start investing in P2P lending and Ive been searching for this everywhere but there isnt a lot people talking about it.

1 - Is it worth it due to taxation?
2 - how bad does revenue taxes(%)?
3 - Can we claim those taxesback at some point in the future?
4 - in websites like Bondora they say we dont to deal with taxes untill the moment you withdrawl the money? Has anybody done this?


There's a huge GAP in the financial Liarecy in Ireland noone is alking about it.

Thank you all.

80%+ have lost money.


Just run away now.

Philbert

As an experiment I opened accounts with a handful of 'leading' European P2P lending services on the 01/01/2018. I enabled the auto bid feature (medium+ risk level) and then intentionally forgot about them.

About 33 months later my returns are as follows (annualised);

LinkedFinance - 10.08%
Twino - 10.46%
Mintos - 11.23%
Viventor - 10.50%
EstateGuru - 10.43%
[Average - 10.54%]

Yes there have been defaults which are already incorporated in the above figures.

Now, I am not a savvy investor by any means, and I stress that this was an experiment driven out of personal curiosity.

The results are interesting nevertheless. Of course everything may well change in the weeks and months to come.

But I'll let the experiment roll on...

bcklschaps

The returns from P2P useta be fantastic...upto 14 or 15% per annum. But the economic climate at the moment is pretty uncertain....soo factor in a higher level of defaults, now. Which probably means the returns are now single figures and may as low as 4 or 5%

Timmaay

Philbert your one of the lucky ones so that none of the companies you've invested in have defaulted. I've managed to withdraw nearly all of my money but have had to write some off, and amount that will be more than my interest, so overall I'll be at a loss, by now I just want out, as Jim says it's subprime lending, and the at best 10% roi is just not worth the risk of losing a significant amount of your capital.

Jim2007

bcklschaps wrote: »

The returns from P2P useta be fantastic...upto 14 or 15% per annum. But the economic climate at the moment is pretty uncertain....soo factor in a higher level of defaults, now. Which probably means the returns are now single figures and may as low as 4 or 5%

The annualised return over a five year period was about 11%, the better funds were doing say between 14% and 18%.... and you are dealing with subprime lenders for 14/15%...

So that is not good, it is pathetic, you are taking on more risk than anyone else and you are not even getting paid for taking it on!

ShoulderChip

Jim2007 wrote: »

The annualised return over a five year period was about 11%, the better funds were doing say between 14% and 18%.... and you are dealing with subprime lenders for 14/15%...

So that is not good, it is pathetic, you are taking on more risk than anyone else and you are not even getting paid for taking it on!

OK let's just chill a minute for everyone's sake

Jim2007

ShoulderChip wrote: »

OK let's just chill a minute for everyone's sake

What's to chill about when your the patsy take the all the risk and not getting well paid for it? It is not a game, interest rates are low and people are turning to alternative sources to get a better return without realizing the risks they are taking on.

Salvadoor

Email from Mintos:

Hi Salvadoor, come onboard!

Since our beginnings in 2015, Mintos has grown to become a global marketplace for investing in loans. Today, we have 340 000 investors from around the world who have funded a total of €5.7 billion in loans. With a 45% market share, we’re the leader in continental Europe by a far stretch.
We couldn’t have achieved any of this without you – our investor community. To say thank you, we are allocating a limited part of our next fundraising round for crowdfunding.

For the first time in Mintos history we’re inviting you to become a Mintos shareholder and join our journey.

For pre-registered investors, there will be an exclusive early access period to invest. You’ll be able to invest from as little as approximately €10 to own a part of Mintos. If you’re interested, make sure to pre-register for early access. We will share more details with you in the coming weeks.
I’m excited for what lies ahead, and look forward to welcoming you onboard as Mintos shareholders!

Best,
Martins Sulte
CEO and Co-Founder
Mintos

They need funds!!!

ganmo

I've never heard of selling shares as crowdfunding

RevenueLand

Jim2007 wrote: »

Are you an expert in subprime lending? Do you recon you are better at risk management than the professional who will not touch these borrowers? Because that is what P2P lending is... a fancy name for subprime lending.

With P2P there are two sure winners - the person getting the loan and the loan facilitator and one potential looser should it all go wrong - you, the one making the loan.

The reason that the suggest payout is so high is because you are the one that knows the least about the transaction and the one taking on the bulk of the risk. It is not magic.

The rest is up to you.

"Subprime lending" is a rather appropriate name for P2P lending in some specific countries, in others it is quite normal to receive consumer credit outside the banking circuit.
I don't think it is too difficult to earn money from this "subprime lending" but you need to study the subject at least a little bit. In short, P2P lending is debt, so you need to be well aware that you can lose a good part of the invested capital, but it is also an opportunity to earn money now that the rates are at zero.

RevenueLand

FFVII wrote: »

80%+ have lost money.


Just run away now.

That's true, many people lose money or don't make any using Bondora. Truth is that Bondora is "real P2P lending" without any safety net, so it needs more effort to figure out the best settings.
Go & Grow 6,75% users are not complaining (so far), but in that case you get 100% platform risk and not loan risk. I prefer loan risk most of the times.

RevenueLand

breakingeven wrote: »

Hi guys quick question.

I want to start investing in P2P lending and Ive been searching for this everywhere but there isnt a lot people talking about it.

1 - Is it worth it due to taxation?
2 - how bad does revenue taxes(%)?
3 - Can we claim those taxesback at some point in the future?
4 - in websites like Bondora they say we dont to deal with taxes untill the moment you withdrawl the money? Has anybody done this?


There's a huge GAP in the financial Liarecy in Ireland noone is alking about it.

Thank you all.

⚠️ The great taxation advantage for claimed by Bondora may be limited to Estonian users, so beware that it may NOT apply in your country.

RevenueLand

Jim2007 wrote: »

What's to chill about when your the patsy take the all the risk and not getting well paid for it? It is not a game, interest rates are low and people are turning to alternative sources to get a better return without realizing the risks they are taking on.

True. Sometimes people rush to the new gold without thinking there is risk. But it is also true that investing some money in P2P lending after taking some time to understand how to lower risk is not a bad idea.
Let's talk about Mintos...so much hate because a few loan originators did not honor the buyback guarantee. Ok, bad news, but there are websites that share valuable information about the health of the lenders and those who spared some time to setup Mintos properly are not losing money.

Timmaay

https://kristapsmors.substack.com/p/iban-wallet-review-100-scam-stay?fbclid=IwAR2HWJBWGYamHIJH4C87ZL6zMm1ni9XyDWc7d_D__pb8B5IpY_owrESdxKU

Just incase anyone has been tempted! Ive seen plenty of fairly slick and convincing adds for them on my Facebook newsfeed etc.

FinanceDublin

WunnaYarzar wrote: »

Have you lent on Propertybridges, if so, has there been any late payments or defaults?

Bit of a curious one about this platform. I'm by no means a large lender at all. Withdrew 750eur at the weekend as it was sitting in the account and no bids live for a while.... money took one day to deposit from my bank account in the 'wallet' there, so presumably an ESTA transfer.... but 4 working days later, no sign of the money back in my account, which would presumably also be an ESTA transfer.

Kind of surprising and would make me a small bit concerned.

EDIT: Reply since received from PropertyBridges. Their payment gateway provider declined the transfer to me. Bit odd but fair enough, it's a reply at least.

feelings

How are LinkedFinance getting on? Still going?

Akavango

They are horrible, they not displaying payment daily anymore. I have been with them for 6 1/2 and I'm finally getting out . They run this site like a bunch of hungover student. Have we done every thing today? oh shoot we forgot to pay the loans to the investors. oh we can do it tomorrow it is good enough. On the bright side they claimed to have process my withdrawal fairly quickly but we will see once it gets into the bank.

I have not been able to get a bid in over a month!

I emailed them the other to ask them some pertinent questions and as usual when it may not look good for them they just don't respond. I'm still waiting for that answer. It is a shame it is great concept but run by incompetents morons.

Ryaner

Given the number of bad loans currently, does anyone know of a way to get loss relief for the bad debt?

Previously I've seen that Revenue count each loan as an individual investment, so if you invested €50 into 10 loans earning 10% interest, then 1 goes bad on day 1, you net out back at your €500 in, put then have tax to pay on the €50 "profit".

Chuckie_Egg

afaik losses on these loans cannot be offset against gains. So on Mintos when you get a report it does take the losses from the gains but Revenue will not see it that way

Shelflife

afaik a bad debt is seen as a capital loss and can be offset against any capital gain profits you may have.

feelings

what about funds in mintos (or any p2p lender) that are in "debt recovery" and not likely to be recovered ? At what point can you say the funds are lost?

Ryaner

Shelflife wrote: »

afaik a bad debt is seen as a capital loss and can be offset against any capital gain profits you may have.

Have you seen this anywhere in the Revenue docs? The only ebrief I can find only mentions some requirements for the borrowers, requirements that none of them abide by right now - https://www.linkedfinance.com/blog/ebrief-update/.

The UK does say you can offset the lost loan against other interest on the other loans, which IMO is very reasonable. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/peer-to-peer-lending#claiming-tax-relief-on-unpaid-loans

Shelflife

Hi, it’s the advice given to me by my accountant.

flycd

Anyone else invested in iban wallet?

I used to get emails twice monthly with topup offers but they haven’t come since 9th February. Anyone else in the same boat, or have they knocked me off their mailing list?

Timmaay

Timmaay wrote: »

https://kristapsmors.substack.com/p/iban-wallet-review-100-scam-stay?fbclid=IwAR2HWJBWGYamHIJH4C87ZL6zMm1ni9XyDWc7d_D__pb8B5IpY_owrESdxKU

Just incase anyone has been tempted! Ive seen plenty of fairly slick and convincing adds for them on my Facebook newsfeed etc.

See above, IBAN wallet is 100% a scam. Personally I'd advise stay the hell away from p2p full stop.

superd1978

Folks, just said Id bump this thread rather than start a new one.

Ive a sizeable amount of savings sitting in my account doing SFA at the minute, and thus looking at options like P2P loans.

Mintos seems to get good reviews here. Has anyone any updated thoughts on Mintos / P2P loaning in general?

Is it worth the risk?

Are things imporving over time in terms of protection / regulation etc?

I was also looking at an Irish company Propert Bridges - anyone any exporsure to these guys?

Thanks, D.

retalivity

Like anything else, only invest what you can afford to lose.

Mintos is probably the best of a bad bunch - I have/had money in it, I'm up overall with them but still have about €500 there which is defaulted or currently 'non-recoverable'. Plenty of P2P platforms turned out to be scams - Grupeer, Kuetzal, Envestio to name a few, and a few of the loan originators on mintos can be dodgy too....do your own due dilignece, etc...

Never looked at property bridges.

littlevillage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118604192#Comment_118604192

There's numerous other threads in Investment & markets .... where participates are asking your exact question.

"Have lump sum in bank, getting 0% interest, what are alternative s??"

Boilerplate answer. Pay off all your loans, supercharge your pension.... sit back and count your blessings 🙏☺️

superd1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118604634#Comment_118604634

Thanks mate...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118604794#Comment_118604794

Ive checked those boxes already :) But thanks!!

Im going to look at property bridges. Ill link back here with my experience.

dxhound2005

Is Peer to Peer the same as Crowd Funding? Crowd Funding is going to be regulated by the Central Bank and EU wide. There was a piece on RTE Radio 1 Morning Ireland 09 Feb starting at 45 minutes 40. Also coverage in the papers over the last while.

https://www.centralbank.ie/news/article/central-bank-announces-new-crowdfunding-regulatory-regime-13-Jan-2022

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2021/si/702/made/en/print

FFVII

Never again

superd1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606509#Comment_118606509

Thank you.... would this regulation automatically apply to all EU / IE crowd funding platforms, or how would one know if a platform is compliant, or not!?

bcklschaps

Have done really well on P2P. Mintos the biggest & best European (Euro denominated) P2P operation.... also used Twino, DoFinance, Linked Finance

But the only word of warning I'll give you is Covid was tough on them, defaults went through the roof, soo don't expect returns like the old days (pre Covid)...and maybe even factor in some defaults

FFVII

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607814#Comment_118607814

You didn't do well.

Look up who owns what....