CL 2nd Round, 2nd leg, Man Utd (0) vs (0) Sevilla (TV3)

dirtyden

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I honestly feel Super Agents are turning utd into Manchester Galacticos for their own benefit and not the clubs.


Madrid has shown Galacticos teams don't really work.


PSG are showing the same when it comes to European football as well.

Real Madrid have won quite a few champions leagues you know.

Harry Palmr

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Second best defensive record in the league mate.

de Gea makes twice as many saves as Eduardo who has 3 more clean sheets than de Gea. You can work out what that means.

UrbanFret

UrbanFret wrote: »

Not fooling me. Had sevilla a decent striker on the field for the full 90 it would have been an embarrassing scoreline. There's a simple explanation why they have that defensive record, put simply if you "park the bus" against anyone half decent then you won't concede many. When the onus is on utd to attack they look as porous as **** .

I can agree with the striker piece. You would wonder why Sevilla didn't start there top goalscorer in the first place

Tactically Jose showed too much respect over two legs thinking he could nick this in a pragmatic fashion

Sevilla thoroughly deserve to go through

764dak

I blame Liverpool. They should've beaten Sevilla twice and Spartak would've made the KO round instead.

Will I Am Not

murpho999 wrote: »

Well as a Liverpool fan, in the past, I watched Utd regularly. Believe it or not it is capable to watch Utd as a neutral.

They always played attractive football and in the last 20 plus years they set the standard.

Now, in Mourinho's time I'd barely watch them, negative tactics and poor performances. Even doubted I'd watch tonight's game as I feared a bore-fest and that's what we got in the first half.

Granted, Utd beat Liverpool last Saturday, fair play to them they took their chances but the tactics they used , with so little possession, at home against one of their biggest rivals is not the Man Utd way, and not an approach Alex Ferguson would ever have used.

Also, look at the money they have spent. It's a very poor return.

Met plenty of Utd fans who are not happy with them at the moment but it seems that many boards posters just don't want to admit that it's not that good at the moment.

The United way is a load of rubbish. United don’t have a way. Ferguson was there for most of my time watching football. It was the Fergie way. Then it was the Moyes/van Gaal/Mourinho way.

Trust me, it’s not always as bad to watch as you might think. Liverpool are exciting to watch in a different way and more consistently exciting at that so it might look worse coming from that.

In saying all that, tonight was the worst of the lot. Really didn’t look bothered at all.

Agent Coulson

Watching that interview I get the feeling Jose wants out.

Agent Coulson

Have ITV highlights tonight?

Watching Roy will be fun.

dfx-

I am actually very pleased for Sevilla. They're an unreliable side this season, but they've gone through the Europa League proving ground and an unsuccessful CL group stage to now be in the latter stages.

Very different to certain English teams wanting to skip the Europa League and treating it as below them, whilst not achieving anything.

Mr.Nice Guy

Harry Palmr wrote: »

de Gea makes twice as many saves as Eduardo who has 3 more clean sheets than de Gea. You can work out what that means.

Meaningless stat without context. Are these hail Mary shots from long range by teams getting frustrated with United's defence, i.e. Sevilla over most of the two legs?

De Gea has been exceptional for the most part but was a liability against Chelsea and arguably again tonight. Can't seriously attribute a team's defensive record solely to a goalkeeper. Young for instance was terrific against Salah, one of the league's best attackers. Bailly and Valencia would get into most teams in the league also.

JohnnyFlash

The much maligned Mario Fellaini is one of United's best players. Lukaku would be a proper goal machine if he was getting quality ball.

JohnnyFlash

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The much maligned Mario Fellaini is one of United's best players. Lukaku would be a proper goal machine if he was getting quality ball.

That says a lot about the current Utd set up.

Guy:Incognito

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Meaningless stat without context. Are these hail Mary shots from long range by teams getting frustrated with United's defence, i.e. Sevilla over most of the two legs?

.

Would it not be the same for all the top sides so? De Gea far and away out on his own for the number of saves.

Liverpool's 2 keepers combined have 53 saves.Courtois has 57, Ederson 50, Lloris 58. Even Cech is 22 behind De Gea.

There has to be a reason De Gea is having to make so many saves.

TitianGerm

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Long time since I've been this gutted after a Utd match in years

That was poor on so many levels, Jose got it all wrong

We deserve all the piss take we get so enjoy folks

How do you feel about Jose post match comments saying United are used to losing at this stage?

The team was more than good enough to beat Sevilla but his tatics, especially in the first leg is what caused the loss.

Harry Palmr

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Have ITV highlights tonight?

Watching Roy will be fun.

Tomorrow, after Chelsea go out.

Vincent Vega

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Any clips of the post match with Jose?

Full interview here

TitianGerm

TitianGerm wrote: »

How do you feel about Jose post match comments saying United are used to losing at this stage?

The team was more than good enough to beat Sevilla but his tatics, especially in the first leg is what caused the loss.

The TV is long off dude. Couldn't face it once the whistle blew.
Going from the Utd thread it's been crige worthy from what I read.

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Have ITV highlights tonight?

Watching Roy will be fun.

Tomorrow night, 10.45.

monkey9

super_furry wrote: »

Jose's going for the 'it's not unusual for United to be out at this stage' approach. Talking about how they were out when he was manager of Porto and Madrid.

Ballsy move.

ArielAtom

Could that have been described as an orange peel more than a banana skin tie???? Either way they slipped up!!!!

super_furry

The game hinged on the substitutions. Fellaini, for all the stick he gets, was United's best player - solid in the middle, a shield in front of the back four and a genuine threat up front when United had the ball. Him going off left big gaps in front of the two central defenders and his presence was missed at corners.

Ben Yedder is obvious - he was the goal threat that Sevilla lacked for 70 minutes.

The other change that upset United was Valencia going off. Never like seeing changes when you're defending a corner and it was clear that when he went off United were disrupted dealing with that corner, leaving Young marking Ben Yedder and open at the back post.

TitianGerm

M!Ck^ wrote: »

The TV is long off dude. Couldn't face it once the whistle blew.
Going from the Utd thread it's been crige worthy from what I read.

If it's anything like RobertKK post in this thread a little while ago I'll give it a miss.

What fan says it doesn't matter that you didn't get through because you wouldn't win it anyway.

I know I want to see Liverpool get as far as possible in every cup. If you win it then brilliant if not at least you've had a good cup run.

JohnnyFlash

RoboKlopp wrote: »

That says a lot about the current Utd set up.

I'm no fan of United, but I really think he gets a raw deal from both his own fans, and from fans of opposing sides. He's no Messi, but he's very good at his job in a team like the one Mourinho sets up. Sit deep in the midfield, throw his weight about, offload a pass to a more attacking player, throw his head towards any ball that comes into the box from a corner.

Sgt Pepper 64

I feel there may be a palpable discord in the utd dressing room

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

They always played attractive football and in the last 20 plus years they set the standard.

I'd agree. Heres an example. It would be delusional to think they could do this with Mourihno's current tactics.

TitianGerm

TitianGerm wrote: »

If it's anything like RobertKK post in this thread a little while ago I'll give it a miss.

What fan says it doesn't matter that you didn't get through because you wouldn't win it anyway.

I know I want to see Liverpool get as far as possible in every cup. If you win it then brilliant if not at least you've had a good cup run.

Don't think you can question any fan for wanting to win a trophy.

It's been 4 years since we were involved in a knockout CL game. If you are not in it to win it then why bother.

Also top 4? Who cares if you are not qualifying to compete the following season.

If he's said that it's just not good enough.
It's a bull**** excuse essentially.

adox

I think tonight is the beginning of the end for Jose at Utd.

How long it will take to play out who knows.

TitianGerm

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Don't think you can question any fan for wanting to win a trophy.

It's been 4 years since we were involved in a knockout CL game. If you are not in it to win it then why bother.

Also top 4? Who cares if you are not qualifying to compete the following season.

If he's said that it's just not good enough.
It's a bull**** excuse essentially.

I thought Liverpool, City and United would go through and Chelsea and Spurs had an outside chance when the draw was made.

It would have been good for the PL to have more teams in the later rounds.

United's full focus on the FA Cup now as I can't see you falling out of the top 4.

Panthro

adox wrote: »

I think tonight is the beginning of the end for Jose at Utd.

How long it will take to play out who knows.

Looks at league table, yeah they're not doing too bad.

adox

Panthro wrote: »

Looks at league table, yeah they're not doing too bad.

There were very audible booing from the Old Trafford crowd tonight and that’s when it was 0-0!

I’ve defended Jose to the hilt since he joined Utd but I think the tide has started to turn.

TitianGerm

TitianGerm wrote: »

I thought Liverpool, City and United would go through and Chelsea and Spurs had an outside chance when the draw was made.

It would have been good for the PL to have more teams in the later rounds.

United's full focus on the FA Cup now as I can't see you falling out of the top 4.

Jose has to finish 2nd and should be looking to win the FA cup IMO.
Anything else is going to have him under severe pressure I suspect.
2 years now experimenting. I still have the feeling in the back of my head he just doesn't know what his best team is.

Demosthenese

Calling for Jose's head ... he'll win FA Cup and all will be forgiven, playing the exact same way. His interview afterwards was calculated - deflection of the highest order. Not a big deal for United to lose at this stage ... nobody talking about the performance.

Gotta admit i was watching it tonight and was thinking, wow, Jose must have ice in his veins to play like that knowing they'll score (Obviously thinking they were gona win it ugly).

Usually Jose wins these kind of games regardless of how ugly it looks - i'm more shocked at that than the result.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Demosthenese wrote: »

nobody talking about the performance

I think everyone is talking about the performance. No deflecting away from it this time.

BorneTobyWilde

Hard to hide the chinks in the armour over two legs. Quality will rise to the top over 180 mins typically.
Trying to bore them into submission over 180 minutes was the tactics of a minnow, not the tactics of a giant.
Barca tells their managers how to play
Jose tells United how to play

Morzadec

GavRedKing wrote: »

5 English sides into the last 16 and 3 likely to be knocked out.

Its great that all the English sides got there but the 2 that got through got handy draws but made light work of their opponents, so fair dues there to Pool and City.

Utd made a dogs dinner of the Sevilla game and on paper, should have gone through, Spurs threw away a glorious chance of knocking out a pre-tournament favourite and moving into the quarter finals.

Chelsea are more than likely dropping out too tomorrow night but got the toughest draw so I'm not overly bothered by that, as long as we dont get battered by 4 or 5.

The majority of the English sides, despite all the billions, still have some way to go to catch up with the best in Europe.

Edit : I expected Utd, City and Pool to get through the last 16.

Spurs up against a European giant putting up a ridiculous tally in serie A. Fair play to them, ran them close.

Chelsea up against the best team in europe over the last decade, running away with arguably the best league in europe.

Both put up / have put up brave performances.

To be knocked out by the 5t team in Spain (and importantly outplayed over both legs) is totally different. Unforgivable.

City had a very very handy draw., easy for them.

Liverpool a nice draw, comparable to sevilla.

LuckyLloyd

Good evening of CL drama folks, very enjoyable. Would watch again - the stunned Old Trafford silence for the first was gorgeous.

Looking forward to the draw on Friday now. Wouldn't mind Sevilla over the two legs, we owe them one for a couple of year's back anyway

It has to be said for all the stick Jose deserves the players are getting off lightly

Sanchez has been dreadful since he has signed

Pogba coming on actually made us completely vurnerable, he needs to take his finger out of his arse and improve fast

Fellani actually had us defensibly stable up until he came off

Rashford and ****ing corners jesus get off them now

And the best player on the pitch yet again is the man who has taken so much flack over the course of the season was Lukaku
The only player on the bloody pitch playing with pride and passion

He had to single handedly try and get us back into the game, he's starved of so much in games for so long and still works his bolox off

Players getting away with it and it's not on

Mr.Nice Guy

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Would it not be the same for all the top sides so? De Gea far and away out on his own for the number of saves.

Liverpool's 2 keepers combined have 53 saves.Courtois has 57, Ederson 50, Lloris 58. Even Cech is 22 behind De Gea.

There has to be a reason De Gea is having to make so many saves.

Why would it be the same for all the top sides when they play very different styles? United are much more content to let teams have the ball than their rivals are which allows for more oportunity to have a strike on goal. But a low risk shot, i.e. one from outside the box, is meaningless. A midfielder who gets frustrated and shoots it tamely into De Gea's gloves - that's counted as a save is it not? So simply looking at number of saves without context is unwise as it doesn't tell us if the tactics were working at the time or not.

It's a bit like possession stats when one side is allowed have the ball in their half and they pass it amongst the defenders. At half-time it will show 60-65% possession which looks good at first glance without context, but if it's not in the opposition half then it's meaningless.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Good evening of CL drama folks, very enjoyable. Would watch again - the stunned Old Trafford silence for the first was gorgeous.

Looking forward to the draw on Friday now. Wouldn't mind Sevilla over the two legs, we owe them one for a couple of year's back anyway

I'm sure Sevilla wouldn't mind the draw either. After all if they can beat the team 2nd in the Premier League, then no reason to fear the team that are 4th and who lost to United at the weekend.

TitianGerm

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Jose has to finish 2nd and should be looking to win the FA cup IMO.
Anything else is going to have him under severe pressure I suspect.
2 years now experimenting. I still have the feeling in the back of my head he just doesn't know what his best team is.

Is this the first club he hasnt won the league with in the first two years? He'll be hurting about that once the season is over.

I think if PSG came in for him in the Summer he might leave.

Demosthenese

Strange to see a team of players like Uniteds play with such a lack of passion. Pogba looks lost, Sanchez is a shadow of what he can do and even De Gea is making mistakes - he was awful for 2nd goal and beaten few times at near post recently.

Still never expected that though, thought for sure that Jose would do what Jose does best, or used to do best?

Iused2likebusts

The first seville goal summed up utds issues. They really struggle to pass it out from the back ,whether thats down to the defenders, the midfielders or joses tactics Im not sure. They had about 10 aimless passes at a really slow pace. Eventually it was played forward but intercepted. Seville with a couple of quick forward passes and the ball is in the back of the net.
I cant believe how poor sanchez has been in a Utd shirt so far. I thought he would make a huge difference to their attacking play.

Agent Coulson

Pogba’s pass to the hoardings sums up his second half to the season.

Nerdlingr

How does pogba go from supposedly being the best midfielder in the world to playing six yard passes straight out of touch?
It's all well and good high fiving your manager and klopp in the tunnel after the game last Saturday and walk the walk but when it came to the crunch he can't talk the talk. Nzonzi gave them a midfield masterclass tonight. Was outstanding.
Sanchez looks completely shot of confidence and De Gea has the look of a guy who's about to leave.
The most passion I saw from any United player tonight was mata kicking the post when ben yedder missed the one on one.
United are going grand in the league but mourinho seriously seems to be sucking the life out of the players. And that post match interview...Jaysus...awful deflection again. But then again he's a master of it.
Liverpool got slagged for not putting Seville away in both their games, how United would have loved a 5-5 agg score with three away goals eh?
Still their fans have to keep the chin up, the fa cup is still there to play for. And they've a really important game against Brighton next.

TitianGerm

TitianGerm wrote: »

Is this the first club he hasnt

It's the constant ****ing around when things are going well

It's not rotation it's pure bolox

You play your best players and you play the ones in the best form

Taking out mctominey after Saturday is beyond daft

Putting Rashford on the right instead of left is daft

Moving back to a two midfield after clear indications that this team is so much better with a 3man midfield is daft

He's been messing around with players and formations for too bloody long

We cannot expect consistancy for this reason

Iused2likebusts

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Why would it be the same for all the top sides when they play very different styles? United are much more content to let teams have the ball than their rivals are which allows for more oportunity to have a strike on goal. But a low risk shot, i.e. one from outside the box, is meaningless. A midfielder who gets frustrated and shoots it tamely into De Gea's gloves - that's counted as a save is it not? So simply looking at number of saves without context is unwise as it doesn't tell us if the tactics were working at the time or not.

It's a bit like possession stats when one side is allowed have the ball in their half and they pass it amongst the defenders. At half-time it will show 60-65% possession which looks good at first glance without context, but if it's not in the opposition half then it's meaningless.



I'm sure Sevilla wouldn't mind the draw either. After all if they can beat the team 2nd in the Premier League, then no reason to fear the team that are 4th and who lost to United at the weekend.

I agree that Utd due to tactics concede more shots on goal than other teams. However the expected goals conceded for Utd is something like +13 over what they have conceded which would tell you that they are conceding a lot of good chances and that DDG is doing a great job.

batistuta9

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Why would it be the same for all the top sides when they play very different styles? United are much more content to let teams have the ball than their rivals are which allows for more oportunity to have a strike on goal. But a low risk shot, i.e. one from outside the box, is meaningless. A midfielder who gets frustrated and shoots it tamely into De Gea's gloves - that's counted as a save is it not? So simply looking at number of saves without context is unwise as it doesn't tell us if the tactics were working at the time or not.

It's a bit like possession stats when one side is allowed have the ball in their half and they pass it amongst the defenders. At half-time it will show 60-65% possession which looks good at first glance without context, but if it's not in the opposition half then it's meaningless.

They aren't low percentage shots. Man u are outperforming their expected goals against by 12. Second most in the league after Burnley

They're 5th in the league on xGa but are 2nd in goals conceded

https://understat.com/league/EPL

Harry Palmr

Apparently Sanchez set a season record (so far) for losing the ball in one CL game - 42.

Nerdlingr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Apparently Sanchez set a season record (so far) for losing the ball in one CL game - 47.

Amazing what half a million a week gets you these days. No wonder city pulled out of the deal to sign him.

Trigger

astradave wrote: »

It looks like Liverpool fans are even closer to god than the Elderly :pac:

Mr.Nice Guy

batistuta9 wrote: »

They aren't low percentage shots. Man u are outperforming their expected goals against by 12. Second most in the league after Burnley

They're 5th in the league on xGa but are 2nd in goals conceded

https://understat.com/league/EPL

xG is dubious in many respects. Look at what it said about Rashford's shots in the recent Liverpool game.

Oranage2

Just proves how mourinhos defensive tactics is killing uniteds attackers, Sanchez looks a shell of himself, Rashford barely sees game time under Jose and mikhaterian at arsenal is thriving.

This is the most boring United side I have ever seen in 30 years of my life, when mourinhos only attacking play is long punts to Fellaini then their are major problems not to mention his united team being the most expensive team ever. Just crazy!