3 and 1/2 year old pushing me to limits

scaredycat

Hi all,

I'm kinda emotional tonight after yet another tiresome evening with my sons. I have a 3 and half year old and 1 and half year old and I'm pregnant and really can't handle it anymore.
My eldest son is killing me lately and so much so that I boil up so much I scream so loud and physically have grabbed him to put him outside door. I actually don't know what to do anymore cos this is going on about 6 months now and seems to be getting worse.
It all started when son number 2 came along, the eldest for some reason is still very jealous and can be very mean to my youngest. We always have and still do, make a point of spending time with both and giving separate attention too.
My eldest tho sounds like a teenager and is unbelievably cheeky and bold. I have tried the sitting him down and trying to talk to him but its water off a ducks back and he either promises me the world and then runs off and does same bold thing 2 mins later or else he changes the subject mid conversation cos he is clever enough to know I can't continue then.
I have tried the taking toys away from him till he behaves but he gets so angry and it ends up being an emotional battle and doesn't have the desired effect.
He runs rings around my husband as he is quite soft and smirks at me when my husband gives in or bargains with him after I have said no. (Yes I know we need to stick together but we differ a lot on parenting and it causes rifts between us too but we are working on it)
Bed time used to be very smooth but lately I am almost man handling him to bed and I feel so so awful. Like tonight I left him watch a bit of a movie if he promised to eat his tea for me. He didn't and it ended up being a battle.
After that, I told him I would read him a story once I had finished giving my youngest a bottle. He agreed and knew it was bed time after that. Once I closed the book, all hell broke loose and I ended up losing it with him cos he hit me in the face cos he didn't want to go to bed and then curled up in ball on couch cos he knew I would struggle to lift him when I had my youngest and my pregnant belly.
I feel like the worst mother in the world for how angry I got cos its not the first time. I now hate my days off from work cos I know its going to be a hard day and I'm just not able anymore.
I am tired from work and no sleep cos my youngest is now acting up sleep wise too and I'm really losing it.
I know all of this has made me less patient and more of a mess of a mother but I don't know what to do anymore.
I can't find a way to communicate with my son, even tried star charts etc but he has a smart answer back if he loses one and really just doesnt care.
I feel so **** tonight and lonely cos I'm angry with my husband cos always feel jealous cos he gets to work outside of house (my job lets me work from home cos its so far away) and so I feel he has the opportunity to be more patient cos he gets a break.
I have bad pelvic problems since my second child so I'm no longer active which kills me cos I was a runner, now I can't even walk 2 mins without pain.
Anyhow my rant is over, I'm off to shower now cos my husband is home and I'm not bothered talking to him cos we had a row this mornin. Oh the joys. Off to the shower I go.

Neyite

Go have your shower. It's my go to place too when I feel rattled after a hard day like that.

You have two little ones and one on the way, plus you work. No wonder you are exhausted.

We've all been there - kids will push you to the very edges of your sanity then just when you've reached that point, flip a switch and become adorable.

A few things that occur to me - you've probably thought about them before this point but do you have a lot of one-to-one time with him without the baby, either of you? By the sounds of it, it's partly stemming from a bit of jealousy, but also they do get kind of cheeky and mouthy at that age too.

Secondly, even if you disagree on discipline, or you are being the bad cop to your husband's good cop, then toddlers are amazing at spotting and exploiting that.

There's a book called The Spirited Child and it's aimed at kids who are challenging. It might be worth sitting down (not when you are stressed and not thinking clearly) with your husband and agree on levels that you both find acceptable and reinforce that he needs to back you up and vice versa.

Challenging behaviour can be kinda cute at that age. My partner used to laugh involuntarily at our child but I had to remind him that the same behaviour in a child twice his age is going to be really bratty.

Hang in there. It's not easy but hopefully this thread will give you some great ideas on how to tackle the behaviour.

shesty

Scaredycat, I am in the same boat.How far along are you?I am 33 weeks and have a 3 and 10mths old, and a 23 mth old.It is so f&%king hard.I ended up in tears the other night because I feel like I have just been shoving her through life lately,I can't handle her....I'm snapping and biting at her the whole time and brushing her off ....and then her playschool sent me a photo of her with a mother's day card for me, hugging it with a smile of absolute love on her face.Jesus, I felt awful (crying again now!!!)

I realised sometime around the 15 week mark that I had to both try a bit harder and change my behaviour, because I just couldn't keep going.It wasn't fair to her or me.I would be fairly firm anyway, and she is extremely high-spirited as they say, and always has been, since she was born.I have definitely had to take some very deep breaths some evenings though but I notice the calmer I am, the better she reacts.I still hold very firm on things (no HAS to mean no for her or she keeps pushing and pushing), but if I lose the plot it just degenerates into something a million times worse.I found the 3.5 year mark very, very hard for a month or so.Behaviour just went off the charts, and worse, the second little monkey is copying her now too!!(although generally aiming the tone and folded arms and foot stamp back at her big sister!)I just have to keep telling myself that if I lose control, she knows I have no control, which makes her feel even more out of control (if that makes sense).Honestly, I don't do much talking, I keep it very short, simple and clear....and I follow through.Just stuff like if she is jumping on the sofa after being told not to, or needling at her little sister....then (say) the TV is turned off.And it doesn't go back on.And the statement is simply 'I told you not to do X and you did, so this is what happens"(course it ends up being much harder for you -having to listen to them- than them, but has to be done).
Your husband needs to be on the same page as you.You don't bargain with three year olds.You give them the limits and believe me, they cop pretty quick when it's useless to keep pushing.I wouldn't do too much talking either, like I said, short, clear, concise, and follow through.Pick your battles and above all, try not to take it personally.He is testing his will out against you and you need to show him you can handle what he's throwing at you with calmness (on the surface anyway).
But listen, it is so so hard, I am right there with you.

Rubberchikken

You and your oh need to change what you're doing. 3 and a half yos will.try the patience of a saint but if youre both coming at him with the same rules he'll see thst his behaviour is getting the results he wants.
Yes its hard but youll have a baby soon to take care of also. You need the 3and a half yo on your side.

margo321

its hard work but he is only a child and is doing what children do. you are an adult and need to change hour behaviour. i find with more patience ki dness and playfulness children behave better. it is hard but they can't help themselves. they are not mini adults misbehaving. children by nature are hard work they are independent and difficult. best wishes as its exhausting but try look at thin
gs from their view.

ncmc

Your son is trying to get a reaction out of you and it’s working - even if it’s a negative reaction. I find sometimes with my 3.5 year old, fighting and cajoling doesn’t work. So in the situation where he was rolled up on the couch. I would just leave him there, turn off the TV and start putting the younger child to bed. Once he sees he’s not getting the reaction he wants, he might just not bother. Again with the dinner, cajoling and bribing is giving him a reaction. Just give him his dinner and if he doesn’t eat then say nothing and don’t give him an alternative. Meal times used to be a battle but my daughters eating has improved ten fold since I stopped letting it be a battle.

Another thought I had, could he have too much energy and not be getting a chance to expend it? I know you’re having pelvic problems so it’s hard to get out and about, but could you organise play dates or arrange for someone to take him to the park so he can run around a bit?

3-3.5 is a tough age, terrible twos are a walk in the park in comparison. And it’s extra hard when you’re pregnant and tired. But you need to absent yourself from the situation when you feel your anger rising, go outside and take a few deep breaths. Turning everything into a battle just makes everything worse.

But most importantly, you and your husband need to be on the same page. Kids are smart, they know when there’s a divide and will exploit it.

scaredycat

Thanks for all your replies, I really and truly appreciate them.
A couple of things have struck me and they are things I used to do but seem to have fallen backwards on the last few months as exhaustion has gotten better of me. Even tho ironically it makes me even more tired!
For example, meal times being a battle, I used to always ignore him if he didn't eat and then later when he would ask for food I would say you still have your dinner and refuse to give him anything else. It used to work too, I don't know why I stopped but reinforcing it from today.
Another point that stuck out is the one to one time. We definitely don't have much of that and to be honest I am finding it hard to find something we can do together cos he is so energetic all he wants to do is wrestle, jump on me or run and I can't do any of those as my hips and pelvic area is in bits, nor do I have any interest in wrestling! I have tried reading, crafts etc but he loses interest after 2 mins, same with cooking so I'm kinda stuck? Which leads me onto the 3rd point of him having too much energy and not being able to use it up. That is definitely and has always been a problem for us.
We live in a remote area so its hard to get anywhere so play dates are not very frequent. He does go to playschool 3 mornings a week of which I am increasing to 5 from Sept and leaving him in till 2 as he really needs the interaction. He goes to a childminder in afternoons then and she has 3 older boys and a girl his age so he gets plenty activity there and she Is amazing as a childminder. (I'm in awe of her parenting skills, a total natural and they love her)
Anyhow I'm up now and facing today with hopefully a bit more positivity. (Famous last words!) Typically its raining so once again we are bloody stuck in doors so that in itself is going to be a challenge.
Wish me luck! And again, thanks for listening and making me feel I'm not alone. Its so easy to be lonely and sad when you know you are parenting wrong but can't help it in the moment.

mirrorwall14

scaredycat wrote: »

For example, meal times being a battle, I used to always ignore him if he didn't eat and then later when he would ask for food I would say you still have your dinner and refuse to give him anything else. It used to work too, I don't know why I stopped but reinforcing it from today.


We live in a remote area so its hard to get anywhere so play dates are not very frequent. He does go to playschool 3 mornings a week of which I am increasing to 5 from Sept and leaving him in till 2 as he really needs the interaction. He goes to a childminder in afternoons then and she has 3 older boys and a girl his age so he gets plenty activity there and she Is amazing as a childminder. (I'm in awe of her parenting skills, a total natural and they love her)
Anyhow I'm up now and facing today with hopefully a bit more positivity. (Famous last words!) Typically its raining so once again we are bloody stuck in doors so that in itself is going to be a challenge.
Wish me luck! And again, thanks for listening and making me feel I'm not alone. Its so easy to be lonely and sad when you know you are parenting wrong but can't help it in the moment.

Full rain gear and some garden equipment? I have a three year old and he simply has to get out at some stage or he’s a grumpy pain!

Something like this? http://www.puddleducks.ie/waterproof-overall-navy-344.html

We also picked up all his garden equipment second hand, slide for 10e, frog sand pit for free, tractors and trailers from 15-25e. Plenty out there for him now and a football. We’ve it secured so I can potter in the kitchen with the window/door open and he can potter in and out (get a good mat for the door!)

scaredycat

I wish, he won't step outside the door if there is even a hint of rain! Total pansy that way, freaks out even walking on our tiles at home cos they are cold!

evolving_doors

Gotta get husband on side. When he sees that daddy has 'gone to the dark side' with you he'll change his tune to win him back.
If there's punishments with bad follow through then that's not good.
We used to take one toy and he said he wasn't bothered, then we kept taking till he became bothered. Confiscate it for more than a day (not just 10 minutes).

Also talk to him about the situation when things are calm.
Give choices before bed not ultimatums. I.e. Do you want red or green pyjamas?
Show him the clock hand 30 minutes in advance so its not too sudden.
Tv off 30 minutes before bed.

You'll get through it. Once they hit primary school things get easier.

shesty

How is he the days he is in school/minders?Sometimes I find mine is worse those days, she's overtired and wound up.
Honestly I used to activities with them but these days I make dinner, eat it with them and do a quick clean....then I literally go and sit on the sofa in the living room with them.They bring me the bits they want to play with but I am noticing the fact that I am there, present with no phone or anything is enough for them, it seems to calm them a lot.I also notice that the knowledge that I will do that helps them too.They have my full attention for a good hour before bedtime, and it definitely calms the older one down (and she is one who likes bouncing on furniture, running endless loops of the house and throwing herself on top of you the whole time) .And it means I get to sit for an hour......
We have sand table, "tree house" and slide, small trampoline outside because she needs to expend that energy but lately she won"t set foot out in the cold either.
Right now I am telling myself I won't be pregnant forever and I notice she has improved in the last couple of weeks

evolving_doors

He could be hungry too if it's a growth spurt!
See if his mood improves after anytime he eats.

ncmc

Does he like water play? My girl is as happy as Larry with a tub of water and spends ages dipping her toys in and out. Makes a total mess of the floor of the kitchen but it’s worth it for 30 mins peace. I do feel your pain though. It’s hard to keep them occupied especially in bad weather. Could you increase him to 5 days school now? Just to give you a break when you’re pregnant and struggling.

ncmc

Also, do you get any time to yourself? It sounds like you’re at the end of your rope and it’s so hard when pregnant. Does your younger child go to the childminder too? I presume you’re working when they’re not there so is there a way you could take an hour or so to yourself just to chill out? Everything is so much easier to deal with if youre not exhausted and stressed.

Malayalam

Don't worry, it gets better after they leave home.

You need time too. Actual time completely alone without the 3 year old or the youngest. Not time spent picking up and preparing, but time spent swinging your arms and clearing your head. Looking at trees and the sky and puddles. When himself has come in and after the dinner, take a walk. There's a stretch now in the evenings and you should manage. Or if there is another time when the 3 year old is at day care and you could drop the younger one off with family or a kind neighbour, go for a walk. By yourself.

Don't try to keep the house tidy.
Sit down and give him big sqeezy hugs everyday and tell him ''I really really love you, you are the best boy.''
Cut out as much chocolate, sweets and sugar as possible.
Remember there is always one that will bring you to your knees. As they get older they will have the knack of turning you from a Zen earth mother into a screaming harridan chasing them around the room with the sweeping brush. And they love it!

You are doing grand. This is normal.

mitresize5

jes that's tough. We went through a very similar phase with our lad around the same age.

I'd just re-emphasize what most people have said .

- A united front with your husband, quite often either me or my wife would disagree with how the other one is disciplining our son but never once has he seen these disagreements. No if he is being disciplined he knows not to bother approaching the other one. We would always discuss it between us later that evening

- Consequences, there has to be consequences and they have to be followed though with. It might take a while but you will find his soft spot. Books, tv time etc... the key is the follow through

- Dinner time is great craic. If he doenst eat whats in front of him then tell him thats fine he doesnt have to eat it if he doesnt want to but there no more foot until he does. A compromise here though is important. Our fellas veg is sweet corn and raw carrots with every dinner. He'll eat those and were happy he is getting the veg in.

- time for yourself. unless there is a crisis you should be getting a few hours at the weekend exclusively for yourself, a coffee with your mates, a swim, anything that you enjoy i.e. not doing the shopping!

- constant re-enforcement of good behaviour. Kids like the rest of us like nothing more than a compliment so whenever he is particularly good or helpful give some positive re-enforcement

thankfully after a tough few months he came back onside, having said that all kids can be little bollox's from time to time and our 'angel' is no better

best of luck with it

pwurple

They don't call them Threenagers for nothing!
I empathise, and I think you have some great advice here.
I resort to the Reward Chart all the time, there is nothing they won't do for a sticker on that (Sneaky Note, grown up version of this also works for teams at work!)

And the other one is the Backwards Countdown for getting out of the house, putting shoes on etc. For some reason works a lot better than the forwards counting to ten thing. No idea why.

bp

firstly breath, you are doing great and we all have off moments. I found taking stuff away only lasted a day or two as they forgot why they lost it etc. Rewards charts also did not work because once one thing bold was done they couldn't cope and got progressively worse behaved.

Try feeding food a little earlier, maybe reduce screen time and more books. These could take a little while to get used to but I find now if mine are messing getting the books out and kids curled on couch helps.

When bold discuss it, then its over. Don't tell daddy in front of son later. Hug, kiss and move on. I find this hard but it really helps. It could easily be he is upset for upsetting you which leads to more acting out as they cannot self regulate and naming emotions. As in I know you are sad x happened, can I give you a hug. I love hugs when I am sad etc

mitresize5

bp wrote: »

When bold discuss it, then its over. Don't tell daddy in front of son later. Hug, kiss and move on. I find this hard but it really helps. It could easily be he is upset for upsetting you which leads to more acting out as they cannot self regulate and naming emotions. As in I know you are sad x happened, can I give you a hug. I love hugs when I am sad etc

I hope you dont see this as criticism of your parenting style as its not meant as such and each to the own but ...

I really dont agree with the hugging it out approach. Bad behavior for me must have consequences and boundaries have to be set and reinforced.

In my experience you cant reason with a child that age and unfortunately hugging it out is not something that happens in the real world outside the home, even as early as pre-school

bp

mitresize5 wrote: »

I hope you dont see this as criticism of your parenting style as its not meant as such and each to the own but ...

I really dont agree with the hugging it out approach. Bad behavior for me must have consequences and boundaries have to be set and reinforced.

In my experience you cant reason with a child that age and unfortunately hugging it out is not something that happens in the real world outside the home, even as early as pre-school

Oh not at all I don't see it as criticism maybe because mine is a little older (5) it is easier as they can articulate what is making them upset in the first place and its usually something completely left of field. Doesn't always work and I do agree with consequences which are enforced too (they are dont worry - mainly no tv or toy goes on time out - said toy gets blamed for the mischief...teddy made me do it by moving my hand). It also depends on the child obviously but I was blue in the face saying the same thing over and over to no response (I think we all know that feeling!).

I can only imagine how hard it must be with two youngsters and one on the way. You must be exhausted and being a working parent (I miss coffee breaks at lunch with colleagues so much). Fingers crossed you get through this rough patch

CheerLouth

No advice really but just to say that you aren't alone! I also have a 3 year old who drives me demented at times! I have to force myself to be calm (it's really hard) and not lose the rag! Especially as a lot of the time, her acting up means that I don't get to give her little brother as much time.

I'm going to try a reward chart with my little girl & as pwurple mentioned, I do a lot of "I'm going to count to five & we are going to do X" and then I count to five but also do "4....4 & a half...5". It works 95% of the time I find cos it turns things like putting on shoes etc into a race.

shesty

mitresize5 wrote: »

I hope you dont see this as criticism of your parenting style as its not meant as such and each to the own but ...

I really dont agree with the hugging it out approach. Bad behavior for me must have consequences and boundaries have to be set and reinforced.

In my experience you cant reason with a child that age and unfortunately hugging it out is not something that happens in the real world outside the home, even as early as pre-school

It's funny, coz my little one comes for a hug lately.Like yesterday evening she had an absolute meltdown, total tantrum because I took away something she threw and I was not giving it back.Cue screaming, wailing, stamping whatever (which I ignored) and next thing is she's over giving me a hug.It's happened a couple of times lately.It's like she gets so overwhelmed, she has to meltdown and she can't verbalise it all but she needs that boundary line drawn (and held!) by me to help her feel secure or something, especially in the evenings when she's tired.I don't comment on it and just give her a hug back, (she still didn't get the item in question back!!!) but it's an interesting side effect of the whole thing!