Boss issues

flo09

Hi all, looking for advice on a work issue. Ill try to be brief.

Im currently pregnant and having issues with my boss. All started with my boss, who is a director of the co, insisting i make up the time for my antenatal apts. I should add i work part time. Due to health issues which my boss is aware of i am unable to make up the time. Im in bed most nights early plus ive small children to care for on the weekends. She insisted on ringing me after each apt asking if the time was made up. I tried to explain why i hadnt but she accused me of being inflexible. I then emailed HR to get clarification on whether i had to. I know legally i dont have to. She was not impressed that i had done this but i felt i had no option as i couldnt make up the time and didnt want to lie and say i had. This is when things got bad.

I was stripped of all 'perks'. I am no longer allowed to work from home, i had to return my laptop, i have to email her each day to say when im in and when im leaving and only yesterday the parking spot that i have been using since oct 2016 'may not be available' when i return from maternity leave. I am due to go on ml in 2 wks. All of this has been just between myself, herself and another director who is not my boss but who is my boss's husband and all through email. I feel im being victimised due to the fact that i am the only one not allowed to work from home and who has to sign in each morning. Im with this co 3 yrs and my colleague who started a yr ago has the use of a parking space too.

Basically what i want advice on is whether i should bring this to the attention of HR. My boss and her husband used to own the company before they sold it to the company who my contract of employment is now with. Their company no longer exists as it was taken over yet they still think and act like they run the place. Should i just grin and bear it for the 2 wks or get it on record. I need the car space as after i finish work i head straight to the sch to collect my kids. Only for the threat of losing this perk i would let things lie but this will impact on my ability to return to my job and there are very few part time jobs out there. I dont know what to do for the best.

GalwayGrrrrrl

Speak to your HR Dept. I’m not sure if they’d be able to help you on the parking space though. They have to keep your job open for you to return but unless the Parking space is in your contract I don’t think they have to save it.

go to hr

if your account is at all accurate they will be very quick to rectify affairs because the boss is going to cause a disaster otherwise

CeilingFly

Classic case of constructive dismissal. But you need to make a complaint first.

The person in question - does she have children herself? I'd guess not and there's some jealously at play

bobmalooka

Your circumstances sound consistent with a constructive dismissal, I think it would be wise to evidence/document their behaviour.

Send copies of all them emails to your personal email account and/or print hard copies.

Take notes of any conversations related to this behaviour, note dates times and detaiks of what was said.

Consider notifying HR of your concerns, sticking to facts and avoiding any personal comments on the people involved (think they still own the place etc)

Hopefully someone with experience in the area could suggest appropriate ways to present the info to HR

drunkmonkey

I'm not convinced it's constructive dismissal as you haven't had formal documented warnings but she sure doesn't like you and is trying to make things as awkward as possible for you.
You've 2 weeks until maternity just try and get through it without adding extra stress on yourself. Don't get it on record before you leave as it'll make it ugly coming back, remember this person used to own the company so HR may not be impartial as you think. (do have a very private word with HR though as they might want a way to get shot of your boss and bullying would certainly be an angle for them) before that
have a face to face sit down with your boss about how things are going and put your case across, you'd like to leave on a good note and see can you patch things up. There rightly annoyed you went to HR without having a sit down with them first bite your lip and say sorry (you don't have to mean it but it re-establishes some respect, blame the over active hormones) , you were within your rights but you still jumped over them and made them look bad. (I know they were but that's not really the point)

The car space, it's probably there's to do what they want with. If you can't come to work after maternity as there isn't a space, you pretty much have to quit, that isn't their problem unless it's in your contract.

Diceicle

By all means go to hr but remember, they're there to protect the company - not you.

TheQuietFella

Another case of victimisation by another woman! In my own personal experience the vast majority
of women (Not Them All) that I worked with, which were in positions such as the above had absolutely
no common sense or people skills whatsoever!

davo10

Your boss is an idiot.

Treating a pregnant employee the way you have leaves your employer exposed to a claim for discrimination and constructive dismissal.

However, you said you have young kids to mind, are they yours? If they are, you are only entitled to one set of antenatal classes, not a set for each child so if you have attended them before, you are not entitled to be paid and you may be required to make up the time.

As to the stripping of perks, if the employer can prove that due to the time you are off, you are unable to do your job and the laptop had to be given to someone else so the job could be done, then again, they may be on solid ground. But your boss is going about it in a way which could cost them a lot.

flo09

CeilingFly wrote: »

Classic case of constructive dismissal. But you need to make a complaint first.

The person in question - does she have children herself? I'd guess not and there's some jealously at play

Yes this person has children herself believe it or no

Toots

davo10 wrote: »

Your boss is an idiot.

Treating a pregnant employee the way you have leaves your employer exposed to a claim for discrimination and constructive dismissal.

However, you said you have young kids to mind, are they yours? If they are, you are only entitled to one set of antenatal classes, not a set for each child so if you have attended them before, you are not entitled to be paid and you may be required to make up the time.

As to the stripping of perks, if the employer can prove that due to the time you are off, you are unable to do your job and the laptop had to be given to someone else so the job could be done, then again, they may be on solid ground. But your boss is going about it in a way which could cost them a lot.

I read it as they're asking her to make up the time for the antenatal appointments, not classes.

flo09

davo10 wrote: »

Your boss is an idiot.

Treating a pregnant employee the way you have leaves your employer exposed to a claim for discrimination and constructive dismissal.

However, you said you have young kids to mind, are they yours? If they are, you are only entitled to one set of antenatal classes, not a set for each child so if you have attended them before, you are not entitled to be paid and you may be required to make up the time.

As to the stripping of perks, if the employer can prove that due to the time you are off, you are unable to do your job and the laptop had to be given to someone else so the job could be done, then again, they may be on solid ground. But your boss is going about it in a way which could cost them a lot.

Yes the children are my own. I work during the week so am not going to waste my time with my children to make up time that legally i dont have to. I havent attended any antenatal classes, the time off is purely for my antenatal apts. I attend a particularly busy clinic which takes up all my working day and more. Im not overly concerned about the laptop being taken back.

flo09

Thanks for all replies. Not really interested in any legal cases, just want the victimisation to stop and for things to be as they were without the stress of facing all this agro. Nothing more they can do to me now anyway. Thought with HR knowing whats going on that they might keep her in check. Maybe it is best to let sleeping dogs lie.

Nothing like a woman scorned! I suppose i expected a bit more sympathy from the same sex.

drunkmonkey

No it's the opposite you'll find, men are straight up.

listermint

Boss and another director that is the husband?

HR?

Tbh OP this sounds like quite a small company and the HR is possibly super close to the directors....

They will not be there to look out for your interests at all. they are there to make sure the company is safe from any litigation.

flo09

listermint wrote: »

Boss and another director that is the husband?

HR?

Tbh OP this sounds like quite a small company and the HR is possibly super close to the directors....

They will not be there to look out for your interests at all. they are there to make sure the company is safe from any litigation.

No its a huge company that acquired my boss's co. It has offices worldwide which it had gained through many acquisitions. My boss is contracted for the short term to aid in the change over. She may have long term option to stay though.

jimmycrackcorm

drunkmonkey wrote:

I'm not convinced it's constructive dismissal as you haven't had formal documented warnings

I don't think you understand what constructive dismissal is. I. E. A definition is:

"The changing of an employee's job or working conditions with the aim of forcing their resignation.

employees may be entitled to claim constructive dismissal"

Op, you need to make a complaint to HR that you are noting that your bosses actions (make sure to specify them as you mentioned) are you being directly penalised for your pregnancy and if continuing could possibly result in a constructive dismissal outcome.

Your company may well have a condituon that may revoke remote working but they still cannot do that as a penalty.

HR are there to protect the company which also means resigning in managers that don't follow the proper procedures.

drunkmonkey

They didn’t change their Job Jimmy as it was the employee who changed the working conditions by not being available to work. They are well within their rights to give away the laptop and parking space to someone who is available to work.
They also don’t seem to have done anything with HR only ask a simple question. No basis for resigning right now and two weeks isn’t enough time to build a case for constructive dismissal by starting a complaint now.
Log it by all means but look at the full picture, she’s gone in 2 weeks. The last thing you want is them plotting your downfall while your away.
Leaving on a good note is the best outcome for the new 2 weeks, that involves no emails just face to face chats to find the common ground.

irelandrover

flo09 wrote: »

Yes the children are my own. I work during the week so am not going to waste my time with my children to make up time that legally i dont have to. I havent attended any antenatal classes, the time off is purely for my antenatal apts. I attend a particularly busy clinic which takes up all my working day and more. Im not overly concerned about the laptop being taken back.

Is there a limit to teh amount of time you can take for Antenatal apointments?
Taking a full day for an apointment seems a lot.

flo09

irelandrover wrote: »

Is there a limit to teh amount of time you can take for Antenatal apointments?
Taking a full day for an apointment seems a lot.

You have a reasonable amount of time to attend appointments including the time to travel to and from. I work part time in the mornings. An apt can take anything from 2-4 hours. As i said, im often longer there than my work shift.

It sounds like your boss hasn't adjusted from being a small company to being part of a big corporate one.

Print out those emails for your records first.

A general principle is that your conditions don't have to be the same when you return but they can't be worse.

HR is there to protect the company but sometimes the way to do that is to come down on an errant boss.

Diziet

Please keep a record of conversations - location, date, who was there, what was said. Keep the notebook safe, not in the office. Print and keep copies of emails.

Go to HR with your concerns and a list of the incidents. Say that you enjoy working there but you are concerned and this is creating undue stress. Ask them if they could have an informal word to make them stop.

You are entitled to come back to the same or equivalent job with the same or equivalent benefits. So if you have a car space, you keep it (they can allocate to someone else while you are away, but you should have it back when you return). If you have a company car, you keep it.  If your perks are being taken away because of you pregnancy, they are on dodgy ground, and the HR of a large company will know this.

You are entitled to time off for antenatal appointments. Is there any way some of them can be in non working hours, as you work part time? If for example you are working two days a week, and your appointments are always in these two days, then that's a lot of working time lost, far more than a full time worker. You are still entitled to your time off, but if you can reasonably minimise the impact, it is good practice to do so.
Best of luck.

flo09

Diziet wrote: »

Please keep a record of conversations - location, date, who was there, what was said. Keep the notebook safe, not in the office. Print and keep copies of emails.

Go to HR with your concerns and a list of the incidents. Say that you enjoy working there but you are concerned and this is creating undue stress. Ask them if they could have an informal word to make them stop.

You are entitled to come back to the same or equivalent job with the same or equivalent benefits. So if you have a car space, you keep it (they can allocate to someone else while you are away, but you should have it back when you return). If you have a company car, you keep it.  If your perks are being taken away because of you pregnancy, they are on dodgy ground, and the HR of a large company will know this.

You are entitled to time off for antenatal appointments. Is there any way some of them can be in non working hours, as you work part time? If for example you are working two days a week, and your appointments are always in these two days, then that's a lot of working time lost, far more than a full time worker. You are still entitled to your time off, but if you can reasonably minimise the impact, it is good practice to do so.
Best of luck.

Unfortunately due to underlying health issues for which i had to have an op at 13 wks pregnant, im under the care of a specialist consultant who only sits in the hosp on a tues. He is resident elsewhere on the other days in a non maternity hosp. Believe me i would rather not have to attend this clinic as its so busy but i have no other choice. Tues is his allocated day. I do however arrange my gp apts after my working day because i can.

My apts are once a mth, its not a huge amt of time lost, 4 hrs a mth. Most people waste more than that dossing on the internet. When i go to work i sit and get my work done. I dont leave my desk until i have to go home. I only have 4 hrs in which to get my work done. I dont have time to waste. Anyway, she has me doing menial admin tasks that are not urgent and has basically left me to my own devices other than when she has a query that she knows i know about and that my colleague wouldnt know about. I am no longer involved in the day to day activities of my dept. I am no longer copied on correspondences and have no idea whats going on. I have effectively been excluded.

Before my illness and pregnancy i would have done some work from home to get a jump start on things and to meet any deadlines and generally to be ahead of myself. I never broadcasted this to her though. I even offered to help out and be available during the busy times while on maternity leave to make up the time. I just cant while im pregnant as its too much.

Thanks

Diziet

The more I read about this, the more I think you need to put it on record. This is looking very much like discrimination on the grounds of your pregnancy and is completely illegal. 

I cannot stress highly enough that you should keep evidence of all this in a safe place, and also have a word with HR now.

flo09

Diziet wrote: »

The more I read about this, the more I think you need to put it on record. This is looking very much like discrimination on the grounds of your pregnancy and is completely illegal. 

I cannot stress highly enough that you should keep evidence of all this in a safe place, and also have a word with HR now.

Yes i have a diary of events and have forwarded all emails to my personal acc. Looking back on it, it all started with me querying whether i had to make up the time which was related to my pregnancy. I knew i didnt but i wanted it in writing so i could forward it to my boss. Also since my contract is no longer with my boss's company and with the new company i wanted their view on it.

I just rang citizens advice there and I was advised that I have a reasonable expectation to the same terms and conditions. While it does not expressly state about a parking space, she advised that it is a benefit i have had and so I can expect to have that same benefit upon my return. She told me to go to HR to clarify this. I told her I was loathe to do so after the previous back lash and she said that this is a HR issue and that they are best able to answer this as my boss may not have the knowledge. In fact my boss's husband admitted he was not up on employment law but yet would still not accept when I told him I contacted HR purely for clarification purposes.

I know some people advised to part on good terms but after thinking more about it, I can't let it go. Only for me going on maternity leave, i would still have use of the parking spot. They wouldnt really have had any call to take it off me. There are other people more junior than me and not there as long as me who have a parking spot. If I thought it was genuine that they needed the spot back for any other reason other than to reprimand me for going above their head as they see it then i would accept it. But the fact that my boss's husband listed this as part of them being flexible with me and after he took back all other things he mentioned i cant help but think this is an opportunity to finally strip me of this too.

drunkmonkey

Your a part time employee who currently isn't available for work when required. You don't own the parking space, has somebody allocated it to you either in writing or verbally telling you it's part of your job perks???? If not you've no entitlement regardless of what citizens advice say.

If you want to leave with them hoping you never come back by all means do, but it's a crap situation to come back to and it's going to niggle you all through maternity leave, you'll have anxiety before you go back.

I think your been obsessive over this parking space, you've it nice and handy now with not much to do before going on leave and you want to cause ructions over something that's not yours. What you going to do if that say no it's not yours, labour court, seriously? Enjoy your time off now don't do anything silly to really get peoples backs up.

flo09

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your a part time employee who currently isn't available for work when required. You don't own the parking space, has somebody allocated it to you either in writing or verbally telling you it's part of your job perks???? If not you've no entitlement regardless of what citizens advice say.

If you want to leave with them hoping you never come back by all means do, but it's a crap situation to come back to and it's going to niggle you all through maternity leave, you'll have anxiety before you go back.

I think your been obsessive over this parking space, you've it nice and handy now with not much to do before going on leave and you want to cause ructions over something that's not yours. What you going to do if that say no it's not yours, labour court, seriously? Enjoy your time off now don't do anything silly to really get peoples backs up.

Sorry i think youve missed the whole point of things. They are laws and protection around pregnant employees and my treatment centres around this. There is no distinction in law between a part time and full time employee in terms of pregnancy laws. There is one other employee on leave who was not asked to make up the time cos she is full time. I currently work the hours i am contracted to do, the job offer was for a part time role so how am i not available to work when required or do you just mean in terms of the time that legally i dont have to?I requested more hours previously and was told there was none available.

Had i not raised the issue of having to make up the time to attend my appointments, had i not been due to go on maternity leave all of this would not be happening. I dont have to make up the time legally and this was confirmed by my HR dept who is separate from my boss. My boss took it upon herself to ask me to make up the time contrary to laws and my employment contract.

As punishment i am being given the crappy jobs to do and being excluded from the overall function of the dept i work in. This is not what i want but im getting through the mundane tasks and will complete them all. Its just not very challenging compared to my usual duties. I dont believe i should be punished for seeking clarification on an item of law from the HR dept whose job it is to know these things. My boss clearly doesnt know this. Ive had the ability to work from home withdrawn, while others have not and now the use of the car space. Im not obsessing over it, i just want to raise this with HR in the same way as i did with the time off, enquiring if there is a valid reason as to why it should be taken off me.

I have had it from the start and had i not i prob wouldnt have taken the job as there are no direct buses from where i live and i need the car to collect my children. Ok it is not in my employment contract but it is known by those in charge of allocating the spot that it is assigned to me. I got a parking permit and had to give my car reg number so there is a record. I think im entitled to be at least bothered by it. If HR come back and say its not guaranteed then ill accept it but i want objective clarification from someone who does not hold a grudge against me.

I thought it best to have it sorted before i leave rather than facing into the unknown when i return. I mean what do i do on my first day back, i wont know if i have parking and ill have to have arrangements in place to either cycle or to budget for additional parking costs, ill need to arrange for someone to collect my kids from sch. These are things i need clarification and that will 'niggle' at me and not issues with my boss. Ive dealt with this nonsense from them for months now. I mean if a company has a certain amount of parking allocations, why cant i be assessed for the allocation of one like i have been.

Their back is already up, they are taking all this too personally. There is not much more they can do to me. An email to HR seeking clarification shouldnt be too offensive to them surely. You think i should blindly accept the situation and be thankful i still have my job even though ive done nothing wrong.

Many thanks for your input.

ifElseThen

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your a part time employee who currently isn't available for work when required.

OP has only taken time that she is entitled to in law. They have zero right to ask her to make the time up. Boss sounds incompetent. HR should school her on basic HR policy.

OP is right to flag the potential loss of car space as 1 issue in the overall context of removal of "perks". If other people are allowed keep those perks, this amounts to discrimination and sounds like it is aimed to force the OP out, which in essence is constructive dismissal.

OP, Raise car park policy query with HR without mentioning specifics of removal of other perks. Along the lines of "What's the policy on car-park allocation? Is it shared out for directors to allocate"

They'll tell you if it is a discretionary perk that can be removed at any time? Mention to them is there any implied term by you having it so long it is now a custom.

otwb1

Absolutely highlight the issues to HR now. They have absolutely no right to change anything on you during your pregnancy unless it's a health and safety issue related to your job role. (eg not doing heavy lifting/exposure to chemical risks etc).

You are doing the job that you were employed to do. You just happen to be pregnant at the moment and will be going on maternity leave. It's part of life and you should in no way be victimised because of it.

Get on to HR and get the ball rolling. Best case scenario you may get a transfer away from the two directors. I'd definitely highlight issues such as removal of the laptop and the threat of removing your parking space. I would have thought that the concept of custom and practice would come in to play if it was accepted that you had use of a parking space and that people generally have the ability to work from home. A general perk that you no longer have access to as a direct result of being pregnant?!

I strongly suspect that your bosses are leaving themselves in a very shaky position. Go to HR. Ask them the official policy on medical/maternity appointments and get that clarified. Tell them (1) that your conditions of employment have been eroded as a direct result of being pregnant and (2) that if the situation is not rectified that you consider that you are being placed in a position where you will no longer be able to do the job you were hired for. Then see what they suggest should happen.

I hope that everything is going well for you and the baby.

You should not be in this position. You have every right to have the same job that you had before you became pregnant and to have that job when you get back from mat leave. If you don't get that then check out your legal options.

drunkmonkey

flo09 wrote: »

Sorry i think youve missed the whole point of things. They are laws and protection around pregnant employees and my treatment centres around this. There is no distinction in law between a part time and full time employee in terms of pregnancy laws. There is one other employee on leave who was not asked to make up the time cos she is full time. I currently work the hours i am contracted to do, the job offer was for a part time role so how am i not available to work when required or do you just mean in terms of the time that legally i dont have to?I requested more hours previously and was told there was none available.

Had i not raised the issue of having to make up the time to attend my appointments, had i not been due to go on maternity leave all of this would not be happening. I dont have to make up the time legally and this was confirmed by my HR dept who is separate from my boss. My boss took it upon herself to ask me to make up the time contrary to laws and my employment contract.

As punishment i am being given the crappy jobs to do and being excluded from the overall function of the dept i work in. This is not what i want but im getting through the mundane tasks and will complete them all. Its just not very challenging compared to my usual duties. I dont believe i should be punished for seeking clarification on an item of law from the HR dept whose job it is to know these things. My boss clearly doesnt know this. Ive had the ability to work from home withdrawn, while others have not and now the use of the car space. Im not obsessing over it, i just want to raise this with HR in the same way as i did with the time off, enquiring if there is a valid reason as to why it should be taken off me.

I have had it from the start and had i not i prob wouldnt have taken the job as there are no direct buses from where i live and i need the car to collect my children. Ok it is not in my employment contract but it is known by those in charge of allocating the spot that it is assigned to me. I got a parking permit and had to give my car reg number so there is a record. I think im entitled to be at least bothered by it. If HR come back and say its not guaranteed then ill accept it but i want objective clarification from someone who does not hold a grudge against me.

I thought it best to have it sorted before i leave rather than facing into the unknown when i return. I mean what do i do on my first day back, i wont know if i have parking and ill have to have arrangements in place to either cycle or to budget for additional parking costs, ill need to arrange for someone to collect my kids from sch. These are things i need clarification and that will 'niggle' at me and not issues with my boss. Ive dealt with this nonsense from them for months now. I mean if a company has a certain amount of parking allocations, why cant i be assessed for the allocation of one like i have been.

Their back is already up, they are taking all this too personally. There is not much more they can do to me. An email to HR seeking clarification shouldnt be too offensive to them surely. You think i should blindly accept the situation and be thankful i still have my job even though ive done nothing wrong.

Many thanks for your input.

Your gone in a few days. Kick back relax be cool with everyone. Protect your job if you want to stay in it. Nothing to stop you taking another job when you decide to go back working.
Your miffed about the parking spot and not working from home (that was unpaid work anyway?).
Straight up question to HR will resolve that question hanging over the parking spot.

Your job may no longer exist when you get back from maternity but you will suffer no wage reduction and may be asked to do something else within your skillet.

I’m not saying don’t go legal like other advice if you don’t get your way but think long and hard about it as it’s not a soft road, to take a new job is easier.

Go enjoy your time off. Revist the whole thing again in 12 weeks and see do you really care, hopefully you’ll have a screw this moment and go do somwthing wonderful!

jimmycrackcorm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your a part time employee who currently isn't available for work when required. You don't own the parking space, has somebody allocated it to you either in writing or verbally telling you it's part of your job perks???? If not you've no entitlement regardless of what citizens advice say.

If you want to leave with them hoping you never come back by all means do, but it's a crap situation to come back to and it's going to niggle you all through maternity leave, you'll have anxiety before you go back.

I think your been obsessive over this parking space, you've it nice and handy now with not much to do before going on leave and you want to cause ructions over something that's not yours. What you going to do if that say no it's not yours, labour court, seriously? Enjoy your time off now don't do anything silly to really get peoples backs up.

I've been sent on several external management courses run by IBEC and have been totally surprised at some of the real life examples where I and the other participants thought it was obvious that the employee was totally in the wrong.

In the ops case there's is a clear link to her being punished in connection with her pregnancy. The company will of course have rights to determine he use of the parking space, but when it's withdrawn in such a manner it will be seen as victimisation.

Any cursory search of employment cases through the WRC will demonstrate how favourable the circumstances are geared towards an employee.