Seating arrangement on old laminate stock

highdef

Was reading this earlier...https://www.steamtrainsireland.com/rpsi-collection/36/half-brake-third-1916 and it mentions twice in it that a section of the carriage had 3+3 seating. I would never have thought any coaching stock in Ireland would've had 3+3, with 2+3 behind the max on the likes of the laminate and park royal wide bodied carriages. Is this likely to be double typo?

L1011

3 seats in one block and a side corridor probably. These weren't the ones with multiple doors between each set of seats anyway

highdef

But 3+3 would normally mean seats across on each side of the carriage with a walkway up the middle, in an open plan (non corridor).

Losty Dublin

Fond memories of this one in RPSI service for a few years. Irish stock benefitted from a wider loading gauge, which meant that carriages and wagons could be built a little bit wider than that which worked in the UK. The six inches of difference meant that one could get the extra seat for suburban work. The Park Royals were also wider and had 3-2 seating. Five and six across was and is okay for suburban links; such seating has been used elsewhere worldwide.

Fred Swanson

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tabbey

The laminates were all 2+2 except possibly standard class in the few suburban composites.

They were very comfortable, being 10 ft - 2 inches wide with very little inside to block your legroom. They were intended for mainline use and designed for travelling in comfort, unlike the rubbish introduced in the last twenty years.

The Park Royals, both mainline and suburban, were 3+2, but did not have tables. There was a tendency by some selfish passengers to put their handbags or shopping on the middle of the three seater bench, unless people seeking seats in the rush hour were assertive.

highdef

tabbey wrote: »

The laminates were all 2+2 except possibly standard class in the few suburban composites.

They were very comfortable, being 10 ft - 2 inches wide with very little inside to block your legroom. They were intended for mainline use and designed for travelling in comfort, unlike the rubbish introduced in the last twenty years.

The Park Royals, both mainline and suburban, were 3+2, but did not have tables. There was a tendency by some selfish passengers to put their handbags or shopping on the middle of the three seater bench, unless people seeking seats in the rush hour were assertive.

So is the 3+3 thing is a typo?

tabbey

highdef wrote: »

So does that the 3+3 thing is a typo?

Yes.

Temp101

Not a typo, the 10 suburban compos, 2162 to 2171, had 3+3 seating in the second class area when built. First class was 2+2.
These were later converted to brake standards like the RPSI's 1916.

Fred Swanson

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highdef

Temp101 wrote: »

Not a typo, the 10 suburban compos, 2162 to 2171, had 3+3 seating in the second class area when built. First class was 2+2.
These were later converted to brake standards like the RPSI's 1916.

Any photos available of the interiors of any of them? Apart from some trains in India, I don't think I have ever seen 3+3 open plan seating.

tabbey

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Laminates ran all over the CIE network and to Belfast.

Prior to 1972, when Mk II sets arrived, most trains were a collection of different coaches.

tabbey

Temp101 wrote: »

Not a typo, the 10 suburban compos, 2162 to 2171, had 3+3 seating in the second class area when built. First class was 2+2.
These were later converted to brake standards like the RPSI's 1916.

What is your source for this?

Fred Swanson

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Temp101

tabbey wrote: »

What is your source for this?

IRRS Journal and Irish Railfans' News.

tabbey

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Pre 1984, there would have been other rolling stock also.

Following the fatal crashes at Buttevant 1980 and Cherryville 1984, it was noted that older timber bodied coaches were the stock in which deaths occurred. Once the Mk III coaches entered service from 1984, older timber coaches rapidly disappeared and Park Royals generally were confined to outer suburban and Maynooth services.

The laminate coaches were very comfortable but potentially fatal in the event of a crash.

tabbey

Having looked at Pender & Richards "Irish Railways Today" 1967, I must admit that the seating capacity of the suburban composites, given as 76, is based on 3+3 in standard class.

However it is physically quite impossible to fit three passengers on each side of a central aisle, unless they are children or anorexics, so the official figure is entirely notional.

highdef

tabbey wrote: »

Having looked at Pender & Richards "Irish Railways Today" 1967, I must admit that the seating capacity of the suburban composites, given as 76, is based on 3+3 in standard class.

However it is physically quite impossible to fit three passengers on each side of a central aisle, unless they are children or anorexics, so the official figure is entirely notional.

But the suburban composites not have 8 windows on each each side? At 2+3 seating, this would give 80 seats in total so perhaps a few less near doors at the end of each saloon. 3+3 would equate to a capacity of up to 96 seated passengers, assuming the seating bays lined up with the windows on an open 2nd/3rd.

tabbey

highdef wrote: »

But the suburban composites not have 8 windows on each each side? At 2+3 seating, this would give 80 seats in total so perhaps a few less near doors at the end of each saloon. 3+3 would equate to a capacity of up to 96 seated passengers, assuming the seating bays lined up with the windows on an open 2nd/3rd.

You are forgetting these coaches were composites, half the coach was first class, with 2+2 seating.

Five bays of first class 2+2 total 40 first class seats.
three bays of standard 3+3 total 36 standard class seats.
Grand total = 76 seats.

However this is unrealistic for passengers wearing overcoats, even allowing for less obesity in 1958.

Temp101

tabbey wrote: »

However it is physically quite impossible to fit three passengers on each side of a central aisle, unless they are children or anorexics, so the official figure is entirely notional.

Probably no worse than the 3-seater benches in an 80-class in terms of seating - cosy! I'd say the centre gangway was pretty narrow and you would not want to be trying to pass too many people.