Starting a 'dumb phone' movement

quad_red

Hi folks,

We've got a six year old so thankfully phones are not an issue for us for a long while but demands around screen time are - which we are holding firm on.

But I can see friends with older kids having serious issues now. And one issue that comes up when I discuss this with friends is they don't want their kid 'left out', to be the only one without a smart phone.

What I was thinking was this - a group of parents come together and agree on a certain model of cheap dumb phone they will allow their kids to have in secondary school. This addresses all the contactability issues etc. But by kids having the same limited phone (like a Nokia 3310) the kids don't feel the peer pressure to comply with what 'everyone else has'.

Our kids go to a Educate Together primary which is open to these kinds of ideas (but not so much of an issue for a primary school) but the secondary I am guessing will be far less open to something like this. Which is why I would like to think about it now.

Any thoughts? Anyone aware of schools/parents groups around Ireland doing this?

Cheers,
Quad

farmchoice

ya but once one kid also gets a smart phone, because her cousin has one and then another girl gets one because the first one got one its all over, back to square one.

you can't keep back the tide, instead we all need to learn ho to swim ie, live with it as opposed to try and live in a world where its not a problem.

now a bit like yourself this is not an immediate problem for me my eldest is 8, but screen time is a big problem already and we have had a fair few rows about it.

things were slipping so we implemented a strict only on the weekends and only for x amount of time a day.
there was some amount crying and complaining from the 8 and 4 year old but a few months in it has been accepted and its grand now.

this is a huge media issue now but to me its just the ''hysteria de jour'' to a large degree.

at the end of the day while they have use of the phone you bought it, its your itunes or google play app they use so make sure you know whats going on.
if you dont think you understand what they are doing, learn, if a 13 year can do so can their parents.

have a bit of common sense and most of all dont hope someone else sorts it for you. there are far too many people who want the school to sort it or the government to change the law or the guards to go around arresting people for something.

if you are a parent of a teenager its safe to assume you are most likely over 25 so you should have the cop on and cognitive ability to mind your own kids.

lazygal

I would find this quite controlling of other parents. We are the ones who decide on what technologies our children have access to, not other parents.
If we want to buy our children something or allow them access to something, that's our call.

shesty

Well said farmchoice.

minikin

lazygal wrote: »

I would find this quite controlling of other parents. We are the ones who decide on what technologies our children have access to, not other parents.
If we want to buy our children something or allow them access to something, that's our call.

That’s fine so long as you’re home schooling your kids. Bare in mind that one child’s behaviour / performance in class can affect the whole group.

I spoke to my daughter’s teacher at the last parent teacher meeting, about her experience of the impact of these devices. She said attention span has fallen through the floor in recent years. She’s almost eight & got a kids tablet at christmas. If it were up to me she wouldn’t have any device at all. I believe we’re gambling with our kids education / well-being for the sake of a quiet life.

lazygal

minikin wrote: »

That’s fine so long as you’re home schooling your kids. Bare in mind that one child’s behaviour / performance in class can affect the whole group.

I spoke to my daughter’s teacher at the last parent teacher meeting, about her experience of the impact of these devices. She said attention span has fallen through the floor in recent years. She’s almost eight & got a kids tablet at christmas. If it were up to me she wouldn’t have any device at all. I believe we’re gambling with our kids education / well-being for the sake of a quiet life.

Parents are the primary educators. We get to decide when our children are ready for a device. A group of self-appointed technology guardians don't. If the device is such a problem for your child, take it from her. We don't have tablets in the house, kids ones or otherwise. That's our call. No one else's.

minikin

lazygal wrote: »

Parents are the primary educators. We get to decide when our children are ready for a device. A group of self-appointed technology guardians don't. If the device is such a problem for your child, take it from her. We don't have tablets in the house, kids ones or otherwise. That's our call. No one else's.

Yeah, I would if she lived with me...
“we” (both parents) don’t always get to make decisions about our kids.

You’re discounting the effect peer pressure has on kids... seems to me that conversation in school has started to revolve around games.

If you don’t have any tablets in your home why are you bothered about other people suggesting they’re not a great idea? Nobody’s suggesting a gestapo raid to confiscate them, just considering encouraging a healthier alternative. Brings to mind the parents who pushed burgers through the school gates during the Jamie Oliver experiment.

lazygal

minikin wrote: »

Yeah, I would if she lived with me...
“we” (both parents) don’t always get to make decisions about our kids.

You’re discounting the effect peer pressure has on kids... seems to me that conversation in school has started to revolve around games.

If you don’t have any tablets in your home why are you bothered about other people suggesting they’re not a great idea? Nobody’s suggesting a gestapo raid to confiscate them, just considering encouraging a healthier alternative. Brings to mind the parents who pushed burgers through the school gates during the Jamie Oliver experiment.

I'd be just as bothered about any other thing a band of parents got together about and wanted to introduce or ban in my children's school. I'm fully aware of peer pressure, what parent isn't? If I don't think something is good for my children, like a tablet, they don't have it. And they'll get over it, just like I've gotten over all the things I was told I couldn't have in school.

farmchoice

minikin wrote: »

Yeah, I would if she lived with me...
“we” (both parents) don’t always get to make decisions about our kids.

You’re discounting the effect peer pressure has on kids... seems to me that conversation in school has started to revolve around games.

this is the kind of thing that drives me daft,'' conversations in schools revolves around it'' well i'm 42 and 30 years ago we spent a lot of time discussing super mario and street fighter, and some how we survived.

yesterday the 8 year old asked me had i heard of a game called fortnite (i think) i said i had ( i think i saw some memes about it). he asked could he gt it , i said no, he said all his friends had it, i said which friends, he said joe, tom, adam, sean and eoin. well says i'' i'm not sure i believe that but as it happens i'm going to a meeting tonight and joe's dad and eoin's mam will be there''. ''ill tell them you told me the lads had the game and ask them is it ok''.
at this point he said he didn't really want it and best not to mention it to them at the meeting.
of course there was no meeting but because i was dealing with an eight year old i was able to out fox him. a small bit of parenting.

it seems there are people who would buy the game then get upset when they found out what it was, then call joe duffy, then suggest the school stop 8 year old's telling white lies, then suggest sony stop making games that are violent.

quad_red

lazygal wrote: »

Parents are the primary educators. We get to decide when our children are ready for a device. A group of self-appointed technology guardians don't. If the device is such a problem for your child, take it from her. We don't have tablets in the house, kids ones or otherwise. That's our call. No one else's.

lazygal wrote: »

I would find this quite controlling of other parents. We are the ones who decide on what technologies our children have access to, not other parents.
If we want to buy our children something or allow them access to something, that's our call.

I'm not suggesting telling anyone else what to do. And thanks for 'self appointed technology guardian' moniker :pac:

I don't think I'm alone having serious concerns. I don't see what the big issue is with seeing if other people felt the same way. I know a few people now having difficulties with this (they do limit time but the demands become incessant) and I can see the addictive qualities of this devices. There are multi billion dollar industries built on specifically tailoring the services/apps etc. to be as addictive as possible.

And never mind the kids reactions to being limited, the reaction of people to get right onto their high horses straight away at the mere suggestion of it.

I see parents groups on encouraging languages, diet and exercise. I don't feel 'controlled' by any of it. But I can see how having critical mass behind these commendable aims is of benefit.

ectoraige

minikin wrote: »

That’s fine so long as you’re home schooling your kids. Bare in mind that one child’s behaviour / performance in class can affect the whole group.

I spoke to my daughter’s teacher at the last parent teacher meeting, about her experience of the impact of these devices. She said attention span has fallen through the floor in recent years. She’s almost eight & got a kids tablet at christmas. If it were up to me she wouldn’t have any device at all. I believe we’re gambling with our kids education / well-being for the sake of a quiet life.

Our children all have tablets, because we chose to. We limit the amount of time they can use it on a given day, and limit their access to particular apps such as Youtube.

We use an app called Screen Time to do this, which also gives a log of their usage, and will also log things like websites visited and search terms used. You can also reward them with extra time for doing jobs around the house. It is one of the few services I pay for, I highly recommend it.

If the government want to do something about children's access to smart-phones, a more practical solution would be to negotiate a licence deal for Irish families. However, very few parents seem to be that concerned with regulating access. It's one thing having their own phone to play games, but when seven and eight-year-olds have their own whatsapp groups and snapchat accounts, you really have to wonder if their parents have a clue.

lazygal

quad_red wrote: »

I'm not suggesting telling anyone else what to do. And thanks for 'self appointed technology guardian' moniker :pac:

I don't think I'm alone having serious concerns. I don't see what the big issue is with seeing if other people felt the same way. I know a few people now having difficulties with this (they do limit time but the demands become incessant) and I can see the addictive qualities of this devices. There are multi billion dollar industries built on specifically tailoring the services/apps etc. to be as addictive as possible.

And never mind the kids reactions to being limited, the reaction of people to get right onto their high horses straight away at the mere suggestion of it.

I see parents groups on encouraging languages, diet and exercise. I don't feel 'controlled' by any of it. But I can see how having critical mass behind these commendable aims is of benefit.

Mine are in an ET school too. If there was a meeting and a group of parents said they wanted to start a movement such as the one you suggested, I'd nod and smile and internally roll my eyes.
There is peer pressure of a different kind when you start saying children should only have a certain type of device, one a group of parents deem acceptable. I see this with the healthy eating programmes in school, where my healthy home cooked baked goods in my children's lunches can be deemed verboten by children who think anything muffin shaped is unhealthy because of certain foods being outlawed.
As I said, there are no tablets in our house. We're big on free play and limited TV. Loads of books and outside fun. If and when we think introducing a device would be appropriate, that's our call. As are the types of phones we buy our children.
I was told no regularly as a child and teenager. I wasn't bought the 'cool' shoes or backpack for school. Peer pressure was relentless then too. I survived not getting what 'everyone else' had or did.

farmchoice

lazygal wrote: »

Mine are in an ET school too. If there was a meeting and a group of parents said they wanted to start a movement such as the one you suggested, I'd nod and smile and internally roll my eyes.
There is peer pressure of a different kind when you start saying children should only have a certain type of device, one a group of parents deem acceptable. I see this with the healthy eating programmes in school, where my healthy home cooked baked goods in my children's lunches can be deemed verboten by children who think anything muffin shaped is unhealthy because of certain foods being outlawed.
As I said, there are no tablets in our house. We're big on free play and limited TV. Loads of books and outside fun. If and when we think introducing a device would be appropriate, that's our call. As are the types of phones we buy our children.
I was told no regularly as a child and teenager. I wasn't bought the 'cool' shoes or backpack for school. Peer pressure was relentless then too. I survived not getting what 'everyone else' had or did.

when you think about it you are actually setting a good example for them, by not giving into the adult peer pressure from the
''wont somebody think of the children'' brigade.

GarIT

I don't see a problem with phones or any other devices. I spend 4 hours a day looking at a screen in work, 4 hours a day looking at a screen for college work, and probably another 4-8 looking at a screen for, recreation and socialising. I don't see any reason for stopping children from preparing for the world ahead of them. The world of going outside to play and physical toys is dying and I don't see them coming back, I don't see much point in trying to fight against the trend and cling onto them.

I'm all for protecting them, doing things like installing a housewide internet content filter but I wouldn't try to stop them participating in the modern world.

lazygal

farmchoice wrote: »

this is the kind of thing that drives me daft,'' conversations in schools revolves around it'' well i'm 42 and 30 years ago we spent a lot of time discussing super mario and street fighter, and some how we survived.

I can't count the hours we spent on fancy paper in primary school, sitting around swapping it, looking at it, arguing over it, smelling it. Children are always going to have their obsessions. I remember the football trading cards and stickers too.

lazygal

farmchoice wrote: »

when you think about it are actually setting a good example for them, by not giving into the adult peer pressure from the
''wont somebody think of the children'' brigade.

These types of groups are peer pressure of another kind, which I'm quite willing to ignore. Like the dad who can't understand why all the boys aren't down at the local GAA club every weekend because ball sports are the only way children will develop properly.

Big Bag of Chips

quad_red wrote: »

I'm not suggesting telling anyone else what to do.

This seems to contradict this:

quad_red wrote: »

What I was thinking was this - a group of parents come together and agree on a certain model of cheap dumb phone they will allow their kids to have in secondary school. ....by kids having the same limited phone (like a Nokia 3310) the kids don't feel the peer pressure to comply with what 'everyone else has'.

So you want a group of parents to decide on the brand of phone that every child in the school uses so that they don't feel peer pressure to have fancy smart phones? That sounds like you're suggesting telling other parents (and teenagers, some of who will be 17/18) what they should do.

You might get a small group of parents willing to try it. You will never get everyone. And if you don't get everyone then the whole idea doesn't work.

It has to come down to personal responsibility, and parents learning how to say "No". For as long as there's been school, children haven't been equal in school! It's a good idea, but you can only decide for your own child. And there will always be the child who has the latest everything. And there's nothing you can do about that except teach your child how to handle disappointment.

quad_red

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

This seems to contradict this:



So you want a group of parents to decide on the brand of phone that every child in the school uses so that they don't feel peer pressure to have fancy smart phones? That sounds like you're suggesting telling other parents (and teenagers, some of who will be 17/18) what they should do.

You might get a small group of parents willing to try it. You will never get everyone. And if you don't get everyone then the whole idea doesn't work.

It has to come down to personal responsibility, and parents learning how to say "No". For as long as there's been school, children haven't been equal in school! It's a good idea, but you can only decide for your own child. And there will always be the child who has the latest everything. And there's nothing you can do about that except teach your child how to handle disappointment.

With all due respect - a group of like minded parents coming together isn’t forcing anyone to do anything no matter how you twist it.

And i don’t care what model it is. I just said that Nokia cos I’ve seen it discussed on Engadget etc And I never envisioned haranging people who weren’t interested in this. And I’m well aware there’ll be kids with everything no matter what. But I disagree that having some people who agree interested in discussing this would be pointless.

I just thought it was something worth thinking about. But obviously it makes me a namby pamby ‘wont someone think of the children’ Luddite fascist 😄

I work in a technology driven environment. I am surrounded by technology and I believe it can make society better in a lot of ways. I also work with social media in my job. My kids are comfortable with technology and I eagerly embrace stuff like coder dojo.

I’m not a Luddite. I’m not talking about isolating kids from technology. They’ll use computers and tablets as appropriate.

But smart phones appear for teens appear to cause a cornocopia of issues from both direct experience of friends with their kids and teachers watching it. They’re not like fancy paper - they contain services and products that are deliberately designed to induce the kind of compulsive behavior that kids are most vulnerable to.

lazygal

No one is calling you any of those things. You're free to start a campaign, just as I'm free to decide its not something I'd be interested in.

GarIT

quad_red wrote: »

But smart phones appear for teens appear to cause a cornocopia of issues from both direct experience of friends with their kids and teachers watching it.

Almost every teenager will have a smart phone these days. They can cause a lot of problems but unfortunately because everyone else has them not having one causes more problems than having one.

My brother is in 2nd year at the moment and do you know what happens to the kids without snapchat? Once everyone leaves school for the day nobody will talk to them. Everything they do is arranged on snapchat, whether it's meeting up somewhere to cause trouble or going to the cinema, if you don't have snapchat you don't get invited.

Big Bag of Chips

Why would you need to gather a few like minded parents though? Make your own decision for your child and "like minded parents" might make similar. I have 2 children in 5th and 6th class. Neither have a phone. I think they are possibly the only ones in their class who don't. Although I think 1 other child in 5th doesn't.

What other people allow their children is of little interest to me. I'm not going to deprive them, but I'm not going to pander to them either. They will be given phones when I think they will need them. Maybe first year? Maybe later. And I will decide on the model phone they get. I don't need a 'movement'! I might discuss my approach with other like minded parents in general conversation, but I certainly wouldn't feel the need to get anyone together, nor would I feel the need to join a group who were actively promoting this.

I'll do my own thing with my own children, and I'd say they'll be fine.

lazygal

There seems to be assumption that most parents don't think about these things.

I know for me the parenting groups I've found on facebook have been amazing, in terms of support and providing a social outlet when I was the only one of my friends to that point who'd had a baby. I've no idea what I'd do without that network, all of which evolved via smartphone and computer.

We'll decide on the technology our children get, and when, and how much. Most parents are similar. They're responsible and want the best, and every family is different. My children already know other children don't get things they do, like a holiday abroad every year, and vice versa.

shesty

To be honest OP I can see where you are coming from with your idea, but I don't think it's a viable one.
Personally I don't think kids need phones and I won't be giving mine phones until I feel they are ready (and yes, I will know exactly what the apps on them do, because I think it's the biggest cop out ever for parents to proclaim ignorance of these things).I am not worried about what they have vs what other kids have, it's swings and roundabouts and kids are always watching one another.it's up to parents to do their jobs on that front though.

Chocolate fiend

What children can bring in their lunchboxes is within the remit of a school, what phone they have isn't.

Neyite

I get the intent behind it, but I don't think it would be workable OP.

Even if you got all parents to sign up to X model of non-smartphone, you'd still get parents caving and getting a swanky one, or a granny who overrides the parents at Christmas or birthday or one kid comes in with the old swanky phone of their auntie/ big brother who upgraded.

Humans have a way of expressing their individuality when conformity was forced upon them. I remember reading an autobiography of a woman who came of age around the time that the communist party took control of China. Even when they were forced into uniform clothes, haircuts, footwear the teens still went to great lengths to tweak aspects of their appearance or clothing to the point where they were slightly unique but would still pass under the radar of those in charge.

There has always been peer pressure. I'm not a bit bitter about never getting stonewashed jeans, perm and the latest Wham album in my early teens.

lazygal

I'm not bitter at all about never getting a Mr. Frosty or Kickers shoes.

jlm29

lazygal wrote: »

I'm not bitter at all about never getting a Mr. Frosty or Kickers shoes.

Gosh.... I never had a mr frosty either. I did notice that “everyone” else had one. It never occurred to me to mind!

Big Bag of Chips

I AM bitter about never getting Fashion Wheel.

jlm29

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I AM bitter about never getting Fashion Wheel.

Holy god. I also remember now that everyone except me had a fashion wheel. I had an awful childhood

Neyite

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I AM bitter about never getting Fashion Wheel.

I hear ya sister.

AttentionBebe

Would you be planning to only use a "dumb phone" yourself OP? I know if I were a teenager, and my parents were banging on about the evils of smartphones while using them themselves I'd find it very hypocritical! Lead by example etc