Starting a 'dumb phone' movement

iguana

quad_red wrote: »

And never mind the kids reactions to being limited, the reaction of people to get right onto their high horses straight away at the mere suggestion of it.

But of course people 'get on their high horses' about it. Your suggestion is not only unworkable, it is at complete odds with many parents' well researched and thought out philosophies. It not only seeks to try and make other parents fall in with your own stance but implies that they are careless with their child(ren)'s well being if they don't. Of course that annoys people.

I think my approach to technology and parenting couldn't be further from yours. My son is 5 and I have very 'soft' limits on screen time. I don't limit his time with television/netflix at all and I've gone from a complete ban on youtube and gaming to allowing him more and more autonomy over the amount of access he has. The limits I do have are social, eg, we don't watch videos over the dinner table or when we are engaged in most types of social activity. I do however have strong limits on content because while there is no conclusive evidence whatsoever of screen time in itself being problematic there are very obviously a lot of programmes, channels, apps, games etc that range from unsuitable for his age to downright predatory.

But instead of attempting to protect him by limiting his access I am taking the path of trying to protect him by equipping him with knowledge. I show him how videos are made, how advertising works, how special effects work, etc. I ensure he isn't passively consuming content by watching what he watches and I talk to him about it. We recreate a lot of what he watches so he understands how it works. He's started making his own animated movies which I let him upload to youtube and we've started a small community of other kids who do similar so they can connect (all done through parents I know).

And it all works really well. He enjoys his 'screen time' greatly but he has no problem abandoning his screens for a better offer. He spends most of his days outside and plays with simple toys for hours. Some of his favourite youtube videos involve making toys from cardboard which inspires him to do the same and through which he has (quite surprisingly) started learning about and experimenting with hydraulics. Making his own videos is fantastically worthwhile on all sorts of academic levels as he uses stop motion animation which involves reasonably complex mathematics, especially when adding his own voice overs. (It's also a really practical introduction into visual representations of sound waves.) He's already learning to code and spends hours working on circuit boards as he plans to build his own computer after Christmas (Santa is being asked for the necessary computer components).

So I hope that maybe you can understand better why so many parents would object so strongly. I don't know who my son will be as a teenager and what kinds of things will interest the person he will be 8-10-14 years from now. But I'm assuming technology will feature prominently in his life and I don't plan on trying to hold him back from that. And I doubt I could because right now I'm mostly teaching him while also having to educate myself so I can help him follow his interests. At some point in the next few years he'll catch-up to me, then he'll pass me out and leave me for dust. At least in terms of technological know-how. But I'll also be the person who respected his interests, trusted him to follow them and tried my best to never protect him in a way that felt arbitrary to him. So when he comes up against the bad stuff, I hope that he knows I can be there right by his side to help him rather than someone who has made him feel like I don't get it. 'It' being both the desires and passions that drive him and the technological reality of 2032.

I've researched screen-time and technology from the point of view of a parent for years before I ever was one, as it was obviously going to be a big issue for parents and children. I still spend vast amounts of time at it. I give it more consideration than many other big decisions I've made because it's a massive, ever evolving part of my role as a parent. Even still some of it blindsided me as who knew a decade ago that children would have an insatiable appetite for watching other children unbox things or silly, badly produced short movies made with toys??? Now I know those are big things and I still don't understand them. But the fact is that none of us can predict the next trend and the older we get the more baffled by it we're likely to be. Which is something that makes me all the more determined to be my son's trusted guide to the internet and technology who prepares him each step of the way to adult autonomy rather than a gate keeper with dwindling effectiveness as he gets older.

ted1

quad_red wrote: »

Hi folks,

We've got a six year old so thankfully phones are not an issue for us for a long while but demands around screen time are - which we are holding firm on.

But I can see friends with older kids having serious issues now. And one issue that comes up when I discuss this with friends is they don't want their kid 'left out', to be the only one without a smart phone.

What I was thinking was this - a group of parents come together and agree on a certain model of cheap dumb phone they will allow their kids to have in secondary school. This addresses all the contactability issues etc. But by kids having the same limited phone (like a Nokia 3310) the kids don't feel the peer pressure to comply with what 'everyone else has'.

Our kids go to a Educate Together primary which is open to these kinds of ideas (but not so much of an issue for a primary school) but the secondary I am guessing will be far less open to something like this. Which is why I would like to think about it now.

Any thoughts? Anyone aware of schools/parents groups around Ireland doing this?

Cheers,
Quad

We discussed this at the parents association recent meeting.
I think we decided that it’s a daft idea akin to getting the teacher to use chalk and Blackboards.

Instead we have organised three cyberspace talks for the parents

ted1

lazygal wrote: »

minikin wrote: »

That’s fine so long as you’re home schooling your kids. Bare in mind that one child’s behaviour / performance in class can affect the whole group.

I spoke to my daughter’s teacher at the last parent teacher meeting, about her experience of the impact of these devices. She said attention span has fallen through the floor in recent years. She’s almost eight & got a kids tablet at christmas. If it were up to me she wouldn’t have any device at all. I believe we’re gambling with our kids education / well-being for the sake of a quiet life.

Parents are the primary educators. We get to decide when our children are ready for a device. A group of self-appointed technology guardians don't. If the device is such a problem for your child, take it from her. We don't have tablets in the house, kids ones or otherwise. That's our call. No one else's.

You do know that tablets can be great educational tools?

endacl

AttentionBebe wrote: »

Would you be planning to only use a "dumb phone" yourself OP? I know if I were a teenager, and my parents were banging on about the evils of smartphones while using them themselves I'd find it very hypocritical! Lead by example etc

I'd use the "dumb phones are free to kids in this house. Anybody who wants a smartphone buys it themself, and pays the bill or buys credit themself".

End of discussion.

GarIT

ted1 wrote: »

Instead we have organised three cyberspace talks for the parents

If you want to teach them good information and not something from a sci-if movie make sure the person giving the talk knows not to call it cyberspace.

screamer

Well having seen first hand what nasty teenagers can do and say in social media forums, and how it can wreck lives, combined with lack of enforcement around the area and the legal age of 18 which is ridiculous IMHO as there are no consequences for totally unacceptable behaviour, I have vowed I will never give my kids a smart phone. I don't care about control etc you have to protect your kids in this world and there are no protections on the internet.

jlm29

screamer wrote: »

Well having seen first hand what nasty teenagers can do and say in social media forums, and how it can wreck lives, combined with lack of enforcement around the area and the legal age of 18 which is ridiculous IMHO as there are no consequences for totally unacceptable behaviour, I have vowed I will never give my kids a smart phone. I don't care about control etc you have to protect your kids in this world and there are no protections on the internet.

I think thats a very naive approach, tbh. The best way to protect them would seem to be getting involved with social media yourself, keeping up to date with what they’re doing and talking to them about social media, who their friends are, etc. I think that brushing it all under the carpet and pretending it doesn’t exist is a disastrous approach. Kids are clever, they’ll use social media somehow, if they want to, and if they think there’s an outright ban on it, it means that if any bullying, etc is going on, they won’t tell you in case they get in trouble for being on it in the first place.

Dr_serious2

quad_red wrote: »

Our kids go to a Educate Together primary which is open to these kinds of ideas (but not so much of an issue for a primary school) but the secondary I am guessing will be far less open to something like this. Which is why I would like to think about it now.

How do you know when someone's children go to an educate together school? They tell you immediately 😂 This is a good idea though, in fairness. It would be great if all primary schools gave an advisory that smart phones were not encouraged before the age of 12.

lazygal

ted1 wrote: »

You do know that tablets can be great educational tools?

Yeah I do. So can books, free play and good parenting.

pwurple

Is anyone else reminded of that Douglas Adams bit?
[font=Merriweather, Georgia, serif]“I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.”[/font]

Listen, smartphones are here to stay, and while you are shielding them from it, I want to make sure my children know them inside and out. Literally. We have taken old ones apart, replaced buttons, screens. Looked at installing and uninstalling apps. Talked about permissions on them, turned on and off alerts. We have some very old tablets in the house, got them for half nothing on ebay. We use them for testing things, building crappy apps etc. Have a couple of spelling games and numbers games on them like OSMO

They don't take them out of the house. Also, because all the devices are ancient, they about about 40 mins of battery and the rule is Sunday morning before 11am only. While they can have an old tablet or phone (no SIMs), they don't get any chargers.  ;)

Paddy Cow

lazygal wrote: »

I can't count the hours we spent on fancy paper in primary school, sitting around swapping it, looking at it, arguing over it, smelling it. Children are always going to have their obsessions. I remember the football trading cards and stickers too.

Talk about a blast from the past :pac: Your description is perfect. I had loads of the stuff I also remember Italia 94 and everyone had a book and you bought those sticker packs. I knew all the footballers and results. I was really into it. It must've been the stickers or something because I have no interest whatsoever in football as an adult!

lazygal wrote: »

I'm not bitter at all about never getting a Mr. Frosty or Kickers shoes.

I was devastated when my Mum wouldn't buy me Clark's magic Princess shoes for my communion. Looking back she was dead right as I'd only wear them for a day but I really, really wanted them

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgLz6glUfGc

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I AM bitter about never getting Fashion Wheel.

I had to google Fashion Wheel and it turns out I did have it. Are you jealous

Big Bag of Chips

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I had to google Fashion Wheel and it turns out I did have it. Are you jealous

"Ignore" list.

beauf

quad_red wrote: »

....when I discuss this with friends is they don't want their kid 'left out', to be the only one without a smart phone.....

Its a simplistic view point.

Lots of clubs, activities, even school/home work clubs use online services, and mobile service to communicate with kids and parents.

If the phone and software and media giants allowed you to have control on the devices the could be managed properly. But the profits from mining all personal data are so vast, no one wants to cut that off. Govt don't want to tackle the companies doing it.

We use a smart phone for games, time limited, and router filtered. We use a dumb phone, or hobbled smart phone for communications.