Itinerant children attending school

Andy From Sligo

just a curious thing - about Itinerant children that attend school in Ireland .

I dont know what the situation is like in UK but as I were growing up in the UK and certainly before I left in the 90's Itinerant (or gypsies as we used to eloquently called them) children never attended school - I dont know whether that was the fault of the parents not sending their children to school or whether it was just that the UK schools never allowed Itinerant children .

but I have had both my 2 children in Ireland and they grew up attending schools right from Primary through to secondary there were Itinerant children in their class or in their years and mixed in fine. - but I still never got to the crux of how itinerant children attended school in Ireland but never went to school in the UK. why the 2 countries were different.

Please dont mis-read this post by the way. I think its a fantastic idea that the itinerant children attend schools over here in Ireland just as any other school aged child and that they mix fine with the other children. Well certainly my children used to say they were no bother at all and were friendly and mixed and intelligent.

biko

Is there a question in there somewhere?

Hector Savage

This will end well ..

freshpopcorn

Hector Savage wrote: »

This will end well ..

I'm here!

tupenny

"A fantastic idea"
Indeed. Equal oppurtunities is a great idea

ignorance is strength

biko wrote: »

Is there a question in there somewhere?

"but I still never got to the crux of how itinerant children attended school in Ireland but never went to school in the UK. why the 2 countries were different[?]"

Noveight

In my experience traveler kids attend school here in Ireland until they’ve their Junior Cert done. Even then their attendance was quite poor, maybe missing 2 days out of 5. They had no interest in furthering themselves with education nor benefitting from it, it was rather an obligation.

Graces7

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

just a curious thing - about Itinerant children that attend school in Ireland .

I dont know what the situation is like in UK but as I were growing up in the UK and certainly before I left in the 90's Itinerant (or gypsies as we used to eloquently called them) children never attended school - I dont know whether that was the fault of the parents not sending their children to school or whether it was just that the UK schools never allowed Itinerant children .


Please dont mis-read this post by the way. I think its a fantastic idea that the itinerant children attend schools over here in Ireland just as any other school aged child and that they mix fine with the other children. Well certainly my children used to say they were no bother at all and were friendly and mixed and intelligent.

Well said and thank you. The only way to and hope of any peace is for the children to mix and to be allowed to reach their full potential whoever they are

biko

biko wrote: »

Is there a question in there somewhere?

It's an Andy From Sligo thread. It's the equivalent of emptying a load of scrabble letters onto a page.

Also, itinerant? Why don't you just say Traveller?

Of course, all children of schoolgoing age are required to attend school both here & in the UK.
I don't know where you got the impression that they don't?
In fact the UK is much stricter about attendance at school than Ireland seems to be.

Strange notions you have

freshpopcorn

Well I know when I went to school traveller children had attendance issues at school especially in secondary school.
Compared to years ago there attendance has improved a lot tough. Most in my experience now attend primary school until the end but the issue could improve a lot with secondary school.
Now when I went to primary school the traveller was never singled out or sent to the back of the room and people did play with him. Unlike what John Connors would lead you to believe. The guy never caused much trouble. However when he went into secondary school he slowly drifted away and didn't do his Junior cert.
They do have a different lifestyle tough in my experience the guys seem to go off doing stuff such as tarmac and selling goods from an early age and the women are meant to stay at home and play house after getting married young.
Now things have improved a lot in the last few years more seem to be doing LCA or doing the Leaving Cert with youth reach.

Foxhound38

Part of the problem historically has been traveller parents taking kids out of school after or in some cases even before primary school has been completed. There's a couple of reasons for this: many traveller parents themselves have had extremely negative experiences in their own schooling when by default travellers were put in special classes and outcomes were almost built to be low, and bullying by both peers and teachers were rife.

Many traveller families also suffer from low or absent literacy rates in the adult population so that makes helping their children with schoolwork difficult. Also high unemployment in that community makes school clothes, trips, uniforms etc a significant expense and often there are gaps in knowledge about services available to assist with that.

There are cultural issues too - often traveller children are expected to start taking on adult responsibilities and roles in their early teens and school gets in the way of that. Women are often expected to get married and have children young, so again education gets in the way of that. On that, it is a thing that many traveller communities would be concerned about traveller girls mixing and fraternizing outside of their communities for obvious reasons, and I have read somewhere that secular sex education outside of the home is a particular worry and stigma.

On the other side, schools traditionally weren't in too much of a hurry to chase traveller children who stopped attending and often principles weren't too happy about having them at their schools in the first place. Part of this is down to perceived behavioral problems that come with it, part of it is the added stress of keeping track of children with a nomadic lifestyle, part of it is just prejudice.

I'm no apologist for the worst aspects of traveller culture (and there ARE definitely a cultural problems regardless of what John Connors and Pavee Point have to say about it - look at the prison, basic literacy, drug addiction and teen pregnancy ratios compared with the settled population and tell me with a bare face that there isn't a huge cultural issue here), but I'm convinced a dedicated (and in the case of non-compliance by either school or family, ruthless) campaign in terms of ensuring at least leaving cert is attained, particularly by traveller girls could blunt some of the bigger problems that we are seeing currently within a generation.

baylah17

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Part of the problem historically has been traveller parents taking kids out of school after or in some cases even before primary school has been completed. There's a couple of reasons for this: many traveller parents themselves have had extremely negative experiences in their own schooling when by default travellers were put in special classes and outcomes were almost built to be low, and bullying by both peers and teachers were rife.

Many traveller families also suffer from low or absent literacy rates in the adult population so that makes helping their children with schoolwork difficult. Also high unemployment in that community makes school clothes, trips, uniforms etc a significant expense and often there are gaps in knowledge about services available to assist with that.

There are cultural issues too - often traveller children are expected to start taking on adult responsibilities and roles in their early teens and school gets in the way of that. Women are often expected to get married and have children young, so again education gets in the way of that. On that, it is a thing that many traveller communities would be concerned about traveller girls mixing and fraternizing outside of their communities for obvious reasons, and I have read somewhere that secular sex education outside of the home is a particular worry and stigma.

On the other side, schools traditionally weren't in too much of a hurry to chase traveller children who stopped attending and often principles weren't too happy about having them at their schools in the first place. Part of this is down to perceived behavioral problems that come with it, part of it is the added stress of keeping track of children with a nomadic lifestyle, part of it is just prejudice.

I'm no apologist for the worst aspects of traveller culture (and there ARE definitely a cultural problems regardless of what John Connors and Pavee Point have to say about it - look at the prison, basic literacy, drug addiction and teen pregnancy ratios compared with the settled population and tell me with a bare face that there isn't a huge cultural issue here), but I'm convinced a dedicated (and in the case of non-compliance by either school or family, ruthless) campaign in terms of ensuring at least leaving cert is attained, particularly by traveller girls could blunt some of the bigger problems that we are seeing currently within a generation.

Excellent sensible post

Andy From Sligo

Omackeral wrote: »

It's an Andy From Sligo thread. It's the equivalent of emptying a load of scrabble letters onto a page.

Also, itinerant? Why don't you just say Traveller?

ok then - if it makes you less offended ... Traveller

Andy From Sligo

I think they do go onto further education quite a few of them - my Daughter is in AIT and I think she said there were quite a few itinerants (sorry Travelers) studying there

Andy From Sligo

Omackeral wrote: »

It's an Andy From Sligo thread. It's the equivalent of emptying a load of scrabble letters onto a page..

good description that haha

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

ok then - if it makes you less offended ... Traveller

Doesn't offend me, just wondering why you used that word. Don't hear it all that much. Also, why did you include a selfie?

Andy From Sligo

Omackeral wrote: »

Doesn't offend me, just wondering why you used that word. Don't hear it all that much. Also, why did you include a selfie?

I hear it used a lot where I am ... Travelling Community is another term I hear used.

I look good in that selfie

I live next door to a family of itinerants. Lovely couple and their kids are ok but the emphasis on traditional education is incredibly poor. I'd say the kids miss 1-2 days of school per week. Obviously some weeks are better/worse than others but it seems to me the 3 R's don't hold much value to them

Spanish Eyes

Control the women. Do not let them get above their station. Take them out of school before they get notions, and marry them off at sixteen. That happens a lot.

The men learn how to tarmac and fix gutters (and a few other nefarious things) and marry the women to clean the house and have loads of babbies.

Someone please tell me I am wrong. I would love for them all to get a good education which is the key to freeing them from this lifestyle they have. Well many of them anyway.

All that money pumped into Pavee Point and what have we got? Does anyone see an improvement in education levels anywhere?

freshpopcorn

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

All that money pumped into Pavee Point and what have we got? Does anyone see an improvement in education levels anywhere?

Compared to the past I have seen more traveller kids stick in secondary school or do things such as youth reach. However not as many have progressed on from this. I have seen the odd traveller girl/women do beauty and hair related things in colleges but they run into difficulty for a few reasons Certain people don't trust them due to bad experiences in the past and it may effect their business and another is they can be very stubborn and won't take advice. A good example of this was a few years ago when RTE did a series with Celia Holman Lee and the girls who she was trying to get to model would not listen to her about make-up/tan or how to pose. I have experienced similar.

Donald Trump

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

but I still never got to the crux of how itinerant children attended school in Ireland but never went to school in the UK.

This is going to blow your fucking mind OP but I'll have you know that the majority of Irish people attended school in Ireland but never went to school in the UK

Katgurl

We have Traveller children in the school I teach at. They do tend to finish but they are largely a nightmare to have in the school; no regard for rules or authority. One called me a fat b**ch on the corridor yesterday (am pregnant). It might not sound like much but it's not a rough school and the kids are mainly very nice and respectful.

kyogger

They have travellers at my niece school now too. Local halting site set up a mile or so from the school a year or so ago. The locals, council and finally gaurds tried to get rid of them but no use. At first they had them seperated but now they are mixed in with the rest of the kids and apparently nothing is getting done in the classroom

eviltwin

There are a few Travellers in my sons school. I can't say anything about the kids but the parents stick out a mile by their behaviour. Smoking in the school grounds, screaming and roaring at their kids, parking in the spot designated for one student who is in a wheelchair, blocking traffic.....

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

Also, itinerant? Why don't you just say Traveller?

What's wrong with tinker?

Hitman3000

NewbridgeIR wrote:

What's wrong with tinker?

Do they still mend pots and pans? Sure why not say nacker?

Hitman3000

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Do they still mend pots and pans? Sure why not say nacker?

They were plenty families with at least one tinsmith in them back in the late 1980s. They got a bit of work in my hometown repairing pots and pans. The children tended not to stay past primary school but on the whole, were no worse than some of the settled kids. Some great hurlers among them (hard b*stards) but wearing helmets was a no-no.

banie01

biko wrote: »

Is there a question in there somewhere?

Its another one of his profound thoughts
I'm starting to regret the National Broadband Plan ever being rolled out!

elperello

Travelers have now been referred to as itinerants, tinkers and nackers in this thread.
If ye want to insult travelers just go down to your local halting site and do it in person.

Your Face

Hon Sligo bai !