What to do about Walsh Park?

Max Powers

spideyman92 wrote: »

Regardless of capacity, St. Pats had ambition and were at least going with plans that would benefit the area and not just a stadium that will stand on its own gated off from the community for much of the year.

I'm not sure myself, would have liked to see it go ahead for the league in general but I'd say in reality, this was not about st pats ambition or them pushing a stadium, the retail and other elements of the development plan was what pushed it, a developer comes along and says to club, I will build ye new stadium, it's not exactly st.pats pushing this, taking a risk, putting up the money, etc. I'm open to correction,I think the developer is on the st pats board, I'd hazard development of his own interests were what drove it and the sweetener of a free stadium for land was great prospect for club but to summarise,I don't think club was taking any or much financial risk or ambition.

spideyman92

Max Powers wrote: »

I'm not sure myself, would have liked to see it go ahead for the league in general but I'd say in reality, this was not about st pats ambition or them pushing a stadium, the retail and other elements of the development plan was what pushed it, a developer comes along and says to club, I will build ye new stadium, it's not exactly st.pats pushing this, taking a risk, putting up the money, etc. I'm open to correction,I think the developer is on the st pats board, I'd hazard development of his own interests were what drove it and the sweetener of a free stadium for land was great prospect for club but to summarise,I don't think club was taking any or much financial risk or ambition.

Suppose ambition is probably the wrong word but the way I look at it, whether someone benefits financially or not, I think the services that the St Pats plans would bring to the area are a lot more beneficial to everyone in the area than their councils hopes of building more houses without the services to support them. That's neither here nor there for Walsh Park but I do think there's a lot more potential in Walsh Park that could benefit residents and possibly have a financial element as income for the county board.

deiseach

"That sports venue would be a wonderful neighbour if there was a shopping centre attached to it", said no-one ever.

azimuth17

In dreams, buy the 20 or so houses on the Griffith's Place and Keane's Road side and demolish them. Build new stand with high quality apartments, including parking for each of the displaced 20 residents. the apartments would all have a private window looking out under the new stand roof at the pitch. In the meantime, while we are saving up for it, just build what is currently proposed and operate proper parking control on big match days for a 15000 or so stadium.

914

spideyman92 wrote: »

914 wrote: »

The current plan will have the county board repaying 1 million. If they were to go for another location/bigger stadium their repayment would be much greater.

I don't think it is a risk that they could take given we only had 2k attend last years county final.

You say at least st pats went for it. Was there plan not for a
12k stadium. Walsh park will be 15k.

just a stadium that will stand on its own gated off from the community for much of the year.

How is walsh park "gated off" from the community. It often hosts games 2-4 days per week from the age of 10 years to seniors.

I was only in at the u12 city league on Sunday.

The likes of the presentation primary school hold their sports days there.

914

TheQuietFella wrote: »

914 wrote: »

The current plan will have the county board repaying 1 million. If they were to go for another location/bigger stadium their repayment would be much greater.

I don't think it is a risk that they could take given we only had 2k attend last years county final.

You say at least st pats went for it. Was there plan not for a
12k stadium. Walsh park will be 15k.

You are probably correct considering that there were 16k at the Cork County Final last year but this isn't about just County Finals! What were they waiting for in all the years that it's sitting there? Maybe having two county boards just doesn't help! Are there many other counties with two county boards?

I agree with you there, what is proposed now for walsh park should have happened over the past 23 years since the stand was built in 1995/6.

Finance (debt), lack of drive, championship format and poor club attendances probably played a big part but neither of those excuses should have allowed for the complete lack of investment into walsh park.

Not sure off the top of my head, tipp (south, mid and north boards), kerry, galway (football and hurling boards) and mayo have two county boards, much larger counties to be fair, our county is fairly small and I feel one board would be sufficient, especially with our road infastructure around the county.

greenspurs

Eddie Kidd was the best thing to ever grace that 'pitch' .....



It looked better after Kidd and the gang were finished with it, then it did when the senior Camogie team (tried to) play on it !!!
Scandalous to have a county team playing on that, the surface of the moon is better....... A laughing stock

91wx763

Ha ha. I saw Eddie Kidd and the "Helldrivers" up there but little hurling....

deiseach

Just leaving this here for the next time some baluba compares the traffic woes that would happen around Walsh Park on a big match day with the buttery-smooth experience everyone has in Thurles (PBUI).

JohnC.

The most shocking part of that is that they lifted a toll.

Johnboy1951

deiseach wrote: »

Just leaving this here for the next time some baluba compares the traffic woes that would happen around Walsh Park on a big match day with the buttery-smooth experience everyone has in Thurles (PBUI).

Just another example of what happens when stadia are left in urban areas.
Those running events at such stadia should be forced to provide 'park and ride' facilities, and all other traffic carrying attendees for the events banned from entering (with exceptions for vehicles carrying disabled attendees etc) the stadia vicinity.

Else move the stadia to the outskirts of towns!

Flow Motion

91wx763 wrote: »

Ha ha. I saw Eddie Kidd and the "Helldrivers" up there but little hurling....

Very good. Thanks for taking me back to my early childhood there. I recall being @ that. Was brought by my father. Lived up the road in Marian Park @ the time. Betcha there wasnt much health & safety applied way back then. Motor bikes jumping over cars on a hurling pitch situated in an urban environment packed to the rafters with kids & their parents (probably fathers as women were @ home;)). Sure what could go wrong? Im sure a fair few fellas made a nice few bob on the side out of that event. Plenty brown envelopes eh?

Deiseen

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Just another example of what happens when stadia are left in urban areas.
Those running events at such stadia should be forced to provide 'park and ride' facilities, and all other traffic carrying attendees for the events banned from entering (with exceptions for vehicles carrying disabled attendees etc) the stadia vicinity.

Else move the stadia to the outskirts of towns!

A lot of the problem occurred at the Limerick Tunnel which is a relatively new section of motorway catering for Ireland's third largest city. Moving it to the outskirts of Limerick or wherever wouldn't have done a single thing.

Johnboy1951

deiseach wrote: »

Just leaving this here for the next time some baluba compares the traffic woes that would happen around Walsh Park on a big match day with the buttery-smooth experience everyone has in Thurles (PBUI).

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Just another example of what happens when stadia are left in urban areas.
Those running events at such stadia should be forced to provide 'park and ride' facilities, and all other traffic carrying attendees for the events banned from entering (with exceptions for vehicles carrying disabled attendees etc) the stadia vicinity.

Else move the stadia to the outskirts of towns!

Deiseen wrote: »

A lot of the problem occurred at the Limerick Tunnel which is a relatively new section of motorway catering for Ireland's third largest city. Moving it to the outskirts of Limerick or wherever wouldn't have done a single thing.

Huh?
Moving what to the outskirts of Limerick?

What has that delay to do with tailbacks in Thurles?

914

Walsh park passes the first hurdle, planning permission granted by waterford council

JourneyMan8

will the new stadium be able to do concerts or something? don't see what's the need of spending that much money if it's just cleaning it up a bit and adding seats, for a few gaa matches, and be empty for the majority of the year.

914

Out of interest how many concerts would you expect a gaa stadium in waterford to hold?

deiseach

JourneyMan8 wrote: »

will the new stadium be able to do concerts or something? don't see what's the need of spending that much money if it's just cleaning it up a bit and adding seats, for a few gaa matches, and be empty for the majority of the year.

If you think Walsh Park just needs 'cleaning it up a bit', you either don't frequent it very often or you're Bear Grylls.

thesaturdayman

JourneyMan8 wrote: »

will the new stadium be able to do concerts or something? don't see what's the need of spending that much money if it's just cleaning it up a bit and adding seats, for a few gaa matches, and be empty for the majority of the year.

no it won't. part of the planning process said no concerts to ever be held there.

fine foresight from county board. instead they'll levy clubs to the hilt.

thesaturdayman

914 wrote: »

Out of interest how many concerts would you expect a gaa stadium in waterford to hold?

1-2 per year isn't unreasonable.

914

thesaturdayman wrote: »

1-2 per year isn't unreasonable.

So regarding the previous post it would still sit empty for the majority of the year.

If concerts are so achievable, why have we not seen more in the rsc? All that has taken place there was one DayTripper and 50cent.

With altogether now and DayTripper I think we are nicely covered with concerts.

thesaturdayman

914 wrote: »

So regarding the previous post it would still sit empty for the majority of the year.

If concerts are so achievable, why have we not seen more in the rsc? All that has taken place there was one DayTripper and 50cent.

With altogether now and DayTripper I think we are nicely covered with concerts.

Talking big box one off gigs - Springsteen, Police, Eagles, Rod Stewart etc.

Do most stadiums not sit idle anyways? This is predominantly being build from Gaa funds, so not a taxpayer issue. Most stadiums are idle 85% + of time.

But it should never be in Walsh park we should all be down in carriganore

914

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Talking big box one off gigs - Springsteen, Police, Eagles, Rod Stewart etc.

Do most stadiums not sit idle anyways? This is predominantly being build from Gaa funds, so not a taxpayer issue. Most stadiums are idle 85% + of time.

But it should never be in Walsh park we should all be down in carriganore

Nowlan park has hosted 8 concerts since 2000! So two a year might be a stretch.

How could it be built in carriganore, the GAA don't own land out there?

thesaturdayman

914 wrote: »

Nowlan park has hosted 8 concerts since 2000! So two a year might be a stretch.

How could it be built in carriganore, the GAA don't own land out there?

Where there is a will? Why is it Waterford people always say what we can't do, instead of what we can?

Waterford is twice the size of KK has a bigger surrounding hinterland. If KK did 8 in last 15 years or so, we should aim to do 20 in the next 15 years.

Ya WIT own the land, there is a sizeable chunk that is completely not in use and up for discussion.

Maybe Waterford people are just totally beaten down & resigned to the fact that we cannot do anything different. Walsh park upgrade would bring it up to about 2005. We should be aiming to have something as future proof as far as 2030. A world class facility not an it'll do sure facility.

As far as Fraher field is concerned, the dog should be wagging the tail not vice versa. Show some ambition.

Deiseen

thesaturdayman wrote: »

914 wrote: »

Nowlan park has hosted 8 concerts since 2000! So two a year might be a stretch.

How could it be built in carriganore, the GAA don't own land out there?

Where there is a will? Why is it Waterford people always say what we can't do, instead of what we can?

Waterford is twice the size of KK has a bigger surrounding hinterland. If KK did 8 in last 15 years or so, we should aim to do 20 in the next 15 years.

Ya WIT own the land, there is a sizeable chunk that is completely not in use and up for discussion.

Maybe Waterford people are just totally beaten down & resigned to the fact that we cannot do anything different. Walsh park upgrade would bring it up to about 2005. We should be aiming to have something as future proof as far as 2030. A world class facility not an it'll do sure facility.

As far as Fraher field is concerned, the dog should be wagging the tail not vice versa. Show some ambition.

I'm finding it hard to believe that people are still mentioning an area of land that has no transport links, no GAA land ownership and is 10km outside of the city, as a viable option for Waterford GAA.

914

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Where there is a will? Why is it Waterford people always say what we can't do, instead of what we can?

Waterford is twice the size of KK has a bigger surrounding hinterland. If KK did 8 in last 15 years or so, we should aim to do 20 in the next 15 years.

Ya WIT own the land, there is a sizeable chunk that is completely not in use and up for discussion.

Maybe Waterford people are just totally beaten down & resigned to the fact that we cannot do anything different. Walsh park upgrade would bring it up to about 2005. We should be aiming to have something as future proof as far as 2030. A world class facility not an it'll do sure facility.

As far as Fraher field is concerned, the dog should be wagging the tail not vice versa. Show some ambition.

Ah that old chestnut, partnership with WIT, on paper it sounds like a good idea and something I would favour in the future

But...........

I hate to dwell on the obstacles and negatives but here it goes.....

How would we fund this? WIT had to receive emergency funding in order to finish WIT Arena. The IT has been strapped for cash for sometime now and with a joint venture on the cards for WIT and IT Carlow for Tech Uni for the Southeast the last thing they could commit to, is having further debts hanging over them by building a stadium

Now the GAA, they never were and currently still not interested in putting money into a stadium that isn't fully theirs. Louth GAA had this issue with Dundalk IT, GAA were unwilling to invest in a county/IT stadium in partnership with Dundalk IT.

Government funding, zero chance! WIT no money, GAA unwilling to invest and no government funding, how do we fund a WIT development?

Next issue, rules! As it would be a shared partnership I'm sure WIT would look to host soccer or rugby (and rightly so to generate some revenue) but then on the other hand that would be breaking the GAA's no foreign games rule (we saw the hassle with Liam Millars tribute match)

Next attendances, 7k a league game for us isna substantial attendance, 2k at a county final, imaging something bigger than Walsh Park and we hitting those kind of attendances? It would be less than a half empty stadium.

€6 million for Walsh Park, moving to a new greenfield site would most likely double if not tripple the cost, should we put that noose around our necks and risk money going paying a debt as opposed to funding development from underage right up to senior?

In order fot a proper smooth partnership to work with WIT, I guess we are a few years away, so do we cut off our nose to spite out face, refuse the Walsh Park development and have no sign of home games for our county teams?

road_high

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Where there is a will? Why is it Waterford people always say what we can't do, instead of what we can?

Waterford is twice the size of KK has a bigger surrounding hinterland. If KK did 8 in last 15 years or so, we should aim to do 20 in the next 15 years.

Ya WIT own the land, there is a sizeable chunk that is completely not in use and up for discussion.

Maybe Waterford people are just totally beaten down & resigned to the fact that we cannot do anything different. Walsh park upgrade would bring it up to about 2005. We should be aiming to have something as future proof as far as 2030. A world class facility not an it'll do sure facility.

As far as Fraher field is concerned, the dog should be wagging the tail not vice versa. Show some ambition.

I’d easily say 80% plus of the atendees at any concert weren’t from
KK so the population is a bit of a mute point. You need regional and national attendances to make it work on any scale. This being the main reason why there are so few held outside of Dublin. That critical mass is lacking, even cork and Galway rarely have big international acts.
For the GAA stadium to be a success it needs to be first and foremost a GAA one. My brother was saying that even Waterford home games this year had to be played in Thurles (rather than the more sensible option of Nowlan Park as not in Munster). I’m not sure if this is still the case though?

JourneyMan8

deiseach wrote: »

If you think Walsh Park just needs 'cleaning it up a bit', you either don't frequent it very often or you're Bear Grylls.

7m for a increase in capacity and a few new additions. i mean i know the gaa folk are hardcore and very territorial on any issue relating to to them, but it's a a lot of money just to host a few extra gaa matches? the junior soccer league should request funding for the upgrade of ozier park for the craic.

and why can't waterford develop into an area that hosts concerts or events such as this, everyone loves saying we can't do this, we can't do that. why not?

JourneyMan8

so the capacity is gonna be like 17k or something but the guy up there saying average attendances are 7k for a gaa league match and 2k for a county final, why is this upgrade in capacity happening exactly? what do the local clubs think about it, seeing as though they have to find ways to come up with cash for it?

deiseach

I often make the mistake of getting involved with people arguing in bad faith. Not this time though.