Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
What to do about Walsh Park?
Options
Comments
-
Johnboy1951 wrote: »Yes ........ what is the point you are making?
WIT denied in writing that there is no offer of a free site ....... did you listen?
I did.
the former mayor, a very credible man said he contended that part, said there was an offer.
county board are saying there was none naturally, the same county board who have lied by omission keeping this report from members & further more could they not have mentioned yesterday when queried about this that they met with WIT?0 -
thesaturdayman wrote: »I did.
the former mayor, a very credible man said he contended that part, said there was an offer.
county board are saying there was none naturally, the same county board who have lied by omission keeping this report from members & further more could they not have mentioned yesterday when queried about this that they met with WIT?
As you said previously ..... he left that meeting with "the impression" that there was an offer.
There is no offer of a FREE site, and that has now been clarified.
I have no doubt there was good reason to believe that a site could be made available ....... but possibly not clarified that it was NOT FREE and not going into GAA ownership.
Nonetheless there is an offer of a site ..... the terms and conditions to be discussed and haggled over, should the County Board bother their collective arses.0 -
Johnboy1951 wrote: »As you said previously ..... he left that meeting with "the impression" that there was an offer.
There is no offer of a FREE site, and that has now been clarified.
I have no doubt there was good reason to believe that a site could be made available ....... but possibly not clarified that it was NOT FREE and not going into GAA ownership.
Nonetheless there is an offer of a site ..... the terms and conditions to be discussed and haggled over, should the County Board bother their collective arses.
neither of us were at the meeting. Logically the WIT wouldn't say here is a 12HA site for you for free, lets transfer it now.
however it is clear they said this site is here, its an offer for you to get involved and get around a table & thrash a deal out - that is beyond dispute.
similarly would you blame an organisation like WIT trying to distance themselves from our lads? They are 12 years fcking around with this.
I wouldn't be surprised now if they went totally cold on this & pulled the plug, how could you work with or deal with whats running Waterford for last 25 years!!
In other news, see the news and star put a poll up on their Twitter / Facebook pages.. over 1000 votes so far and nearly 80% against doing up Walsh Park0 -
engiweirdo wrote: »I've been to a few and when you are in town you wouldn't even know there was a game on. No sense of ocassion and people just bolt on home straight after the game. Then there's getting to the stadium if you dont have a car...
That could be describing Walsh Park itself. A disaster of an area. Not handy from anywhere. No large public spaces nearby for any atmosphere/sense of occasions. Worst of both worlds. Urban while still detached.
Ballybricken and the Apple market are literally 10 minutes walk away. Same distance as the square in Thurles to Semple. How can you say this?0 -
engiweirdo wrote: »So what do you suggest. Flog Walsh Park for a housing project and move a new site closer to the city center...north quays maybe....convince the saudis to forego their mosque plans for a 20,000 All seater stadium...?
Walsh Park offers no benefit as a "city" stadium. It's far enough out of the way and with little to no facilities in vicinity, you might as well go the whole hog and move to the outskirts of the city altogether. They'll patch it up and be back to the same question in 5-10 years time with another half baked fix.
As previously stated, Walsh Park is 10 minutes walk from the center of town. How can you say it's not near anything. That's just plain lies.0 -
Advertisement
-
As previously stated, Walsh Park is 10 minutes walk from the center of town. How can you say it's not near anything. That's just plain lies.
10 minutes at a half run up hills and through various lanes. Imagine 10,000 plus people making their way up Barrack St footpaths from the Apple market. An absolute disaster.0 -
engiweirdo wrote: »10 minutes at a half run up hills and through various lanes. Imagine 10,000 plus people making their way up Barrack St footpaths from the Apple market. An absolute disaster.
The same as people do in every other town, walk on the roads!
Plus if your in the applemarket you have one hill to contend with.0 -
engiweirdo wrote: »As previously stated, Walsh Park is 10 minutes walk from the center of town. How can you say it's not near anything. That's just plain lies.
10 minutes at a half run up hills and through various lanes. Imagine 10,000 plus people making their way up Barrack St footpaths from the Apple market. An absolute disaster.
Have you ever been to Croke Park? You go through some lanes/streets on the approach to the stadium towards the Cusack Stand that make Barrack Street look like 5th Avenue!
And Maybe the businesses on Barrack street would love some increased footfall to the tune of 16,000!!!
Ok lets say 15/20 minutes to be conservative. Can you name another stadium that is that close to the center of town?
Struggling to see what you are expecting here. Everyone considers Thurles as the bench mark and the fact is that WP is same distance from town as Semple is from Thurles.0 -
engiweirdo wrote: »10 minutes at a half run up hills and through various lanes. Imagine 10,000 plus people making their way up Barrack St footpaths from the Apple market. An absolute disaster.
The same as people do in every other town, walk on the roads!
Plus if your in the applemarket you have one hill to contend with.
And it's barely even a hill!0 -
Croke Park is an awful comparison in fairness. Literally 10-15 mins from O Connel St and passing through the north inner city/Drumcondra. Mainly wide Georgian streets not lanes and pubs/shops everywhere.engiweirdo wrote: »As previously stated, Walsh Park is 10 minutes walk from the center of town. How can you say it's not near anything. That's just plain lies.
10 minutes at a half run up hills and through various lanes. Imagine 10,000 plus people making their way up Barrack St footpaths from the Apple market. An absolute disaster.
Have you ever been to Croke Park? You go through some lanes/streets on the approach to the stadium towards the Cusack Stand that make Barrack Street look like 5th Avenue!
And Maybe the businesses on Barrack street would love some increased footfall to the tune of 16,000!!!
Ok lets say 15/20 minutes to be conservative. Can you name another stadium that is that close to the center of town?
Struggling to see what you are expecting here. Everyone considers Thurles as the bench mark and the fact is that WP is same distance from town as Semple is from Thurles.
Barrack St has a chipper, 2 chineses, a spar and a sprinkling of (very soccer oriented pubs). Its also heavily residential with not much room for any new businesses to support big games.
But Im sure it will all work out super and we wont be having to make new plans again in a few years time.0 -
Advertisement
-
I am only referring to Barrack Street because you brought it up. Barrack street has absolutely nothing to do with the stadium, it is just a street on the way to a stadium.engiweirdo wrote: »
Croke Park is an awful comparison in fairness. Literally 10-15 mins from O Connel St and passing through the north inner city/Drumcondra. Mainly wide Georgian streets not lanes and pubs/shops everywhere.engiweirdo wrote: »As previously stated, Walsh Park is 10 minutes walk from the center of town. How can you say it's not near anything. That's just plain lies.
10 minutes at a half run up hills and through various lanes. Imagine 10,000 plus people making their way up Barrack St footpaths from the Apple market. An absolute disaster.
Have you ever been to Croke Park? You go through some lanes/streets on the approach to the stadium towards the Cusack Stand that make Barrack Street look like 5th Avenue!
And Maybe the businesses on Barrack street would love some increased footfall to the tune of 16,000!!!
Ok lets say 15/20 minutes to be conservative. Can you name another stadium that is that close to the center of town?
Struggling to see what you are expecting here. Everyone considers Thurles as the bench mark and the fact is that WP is same distance from town as Semple is from Thurles.
Barrack St has a chipper, 2 chineses, a spar and a sprinkling of (very soccer oriented pubs). Its also heavily residential with not much room for any new businesses to support big games.
But Im sure it will all work out super and we wont be having to make new plans again in a few years time.
If you hate it so much then just go up the Yellow Road or the Cork Road lad.0 -
Sure you're adding legs on the journey there with no benefit. Take ya the bones of 45 mins going Applemarket-Cork Road- Walsh Park and nothing but the cars to keep ya company.lol
I am only referring to Barrack Street because you brought it up. Barrack street has absolutely nothing to do with the stadium, it is just a street on the way to a stadium.engiweirdo wrote: »
Croke Park is an awful comparison in fairness. Literally 10-15 mins from O Connel St and passing through the north inner city/Drumcondra. Mainly wide Georgian streets not lanes and pubs/shops everywhere.engiweirdo wrote: »As previously stated, Walsh Park is 10 minutes walk from the center of town. How can you say it's not near anything. That's just plain lies.
10 minutes at a half run up hills and through various lanes. Imagine 10,000 plus people making their way up Barrack St footpaths from the Apple market. An absolute disaster.
Have you ever been to Croke Park? You go through some lanes/streets on the approach to the stadium towards the Cusack Stand that make Barrack Street look like 5th Avenue!
And Maybe the businesses on Barrack street would love some increased footfall to the tune of 16,000!!!
Ok lets say 15/20 minutes to be conservative. Can you name another stadium that is that close to the center of town?
Struggling to see what you are expecting here. Everyone considers Thurles as the bench mark and the fact is that WP is same distance from town as Semple is from Thurles.
Barrack St has a chipper, 2 chineses, a spar and a sprinkling of (very soccer oriented pubs). Its also heavily residential with not much room for any new businesses to support big games.
But Im sure it will all work out super and we wont be having to make new plans again in a few years time.
If you hate it so much then just go up the Yellow Road or the Cork Road lad.0 -
And no-one hates Barrack St btw. Quite fond of it in fact but it is what is and prime match day spot is not it tbh.0
-
Can you remember what's on the walk to Semple? PUC? Gaelic Grounds?engiweirdo wrote: »And no-one hates Barrack St btw. Quite fond of it in fact but it is what is and prime match day spot is not it tbh.
It's only a road, fans would be in Apple Market or Ballybricken or every pub in Waterford.0 -
Look I'm flogging a dead horse here in any case, the decision is made to go with the broken model and the logic of "sure everywhere else is as bad" is Irish beyond belief.
Can you remember what's on the walk to Semple? PUC? Gaelic Grounds?engiweirdo wrote: »And no-one hates Barrack St btw. Quite fond of it in fact but it is what is and prime match day spot is not it tbh.
It's only a road, fans would be in Apple Market or Ballybricken or every pub in Waterford.
There was a chance to build something decent and take an entirely different approach but it would have required supporting infrastructure and a bit of joined up thinking, dirty words here.
Walsh Park will be patched up, cheaply, behind schedule with all the same problems as before only scaled up a bit. And we'll shrug our shoulders and say "as sure, what else could be done".0 -
engiweirdo wrote: »
Look I'm flogging a dead horse here in any case, the decision is made to go with the broken model and the logic of "sure everywhere else is as bad" is Irish beyond belief.
Can you remember what's on the walk to Semple? PUC? Gaelic Grounds?engiweirdo wrote: »And no-one hates Barrack St btw. Quite fond of it in fact but it is what is and prime match day spot is not it tbh.
It's only a road, fans would be in Apple Market or Ballybricken or every pub in Waterford.
There was a chance to build something decent and take an entirely different approach but it would have required supporting infrastructure and a bit of joined up thinking, dirty words here.
Walsh Park will be patched up, cheaply, behind schedule with all the same problems as before only scaled up a bit. And we'll shrug our shoulders and say "as sure, what else could be done".
The only way Carriganore would work is if you could move town 5km towards it.
I don't see how you can say there's nothing near Walsh Park as a point against upgrading it, but then go and champion Carriganore which has absolutely nothing within 6kms. It doesn't make any sense. Can you not agree on that point at least.
The ideal scenario would be a Carriganore style development in town, possibly on the RSC land or Waterside or Quays somewhere but I don't think thats gonna be an option.
Let me just state that I love the idea of a top class Stadium, no doubt about that. I just don't believe that 6km out of town is the right location. The stadium might aswell be in Thurles for all the good it will do Waterford all the way out there.0 -
The only way Carriganore would work is if you could move town 5km towards it.
I don't see how you can say there's nothing near Walsh Park as a point against upgrading it, but then go and champion Carriganore which has absolutely nothing within 6kms. It doesn't make any sense. Can you not agree on that point at least.
The ideal scenario would be a Carriganore style development in town, possibly on the RSC land or Waterside or Quays somewhere but I don't think thats gonna be an option.
Let me just state that I love the idea of a top class Stadium, no doubt about that. I just don't believe that 6km out of town is the right location. The stadium might aswell be in Thurles for all the good it will do Waterford all the way out there.
They have similar issues with location is the point. Walsh Parks location isn't a massive selling point. There would have been far more scope in Carrignanore and realistically all it takes is a half decent shuttle service from town on game days. 15 min walk/ 15 min shuttle, what's the difference. Cities residential layout and future expansion is skewed toward that general direction anyway. Far easier for anyone not city based. It's literally a 5 min walk to Walsh Park from my house so it's not to make it handier on myself either.0 -
Other than the fact that Walsh Park is tight for space, Can you tell me how it's got an issue with location? It's 15 minutes walk from town. To put it in perspective, it's an hour and fifteen minutes walk to Carriganore. How many shuttle buses would you need? Where would others park? Can they make a car park big enough for 25,000 fans?engiweirdo wrote: »The only way Carriganore would work is if you could move town 5km towards it.
I don't see how you can say there's nothing near Walsh Park as a point against upgrading it, but then go and champion Carriganore which has absolutely nothing within 6kms. It doesn't make any sense. Can you not agree on that point at least.
The ideal scenario would be a Carriganore style development in town, possibly on the RSC land or Waterside or Quays somewhere but I don't think thats gonna be an option.
Let me just state that I love the idea of a top class Stadium, no doubt about that. I just don't believe that 6km out of town is the right location. The stadium might aswell be in Thurles for all the good it will do Waterford all the way out there.
They have similar issues with location is the point. Walsh Parks location isn't a massive selling point. There would have been far more scope in Carrignanore and realistically all it takes is a half decent shuttle service from town on game days. 15 min walk/ 15 min shuttle, what's the difference. Cities residential layout and future expansion is skewed toward that general direction anyway. Far easier for anyone not city based. It's literally a 5 min walk to Walsh Park from my house so it's not to make it handier on myself either.
Also, If people are worried about traffic then imagine how a stadium where everyone has to drive to get to it, including the local fans. It will be a disaster.0 -
HI, I was wondering if somebody could point me to where Semple / Pairc Ui caoimh / Croke Park have parking for 15000 people withing a acceptable walking distance?0
-
HI, I was wondering if somebody could point me to where Semple / Pairc Ui caoimh / Croke Park have parking for 15000 people withing a acceptable walking distance?
They dont, but imagine having only road to park on in the vicinity..
Least when its in a town/city you can spread the burden across many streets and also plenty of clubs around Walsh Park that would love to offer parking at €5 a pop.0 -
Advertisement
-
They dont, but imagine having only road to park on in the vicinity..
Least when its in a town/city you can spread the burden across many streets and also plenty of clubs around Walsh Park that would love to offer parking at €5 a pop.
The more you think about it the more the ‘lack of parking’ for a refurbed Walsh Park is just a red herring / straw man argument......I’ve been to a few big stadiums in the USA where they have the stadium out of town with acres of car park spaces and beside major road networks, it is stil chaotic on big Match days. Before the game when people start arriving there are ‘tail gate’ parties in the car park which give a certain amount of pre-Game buzz but nothing comparable to a thurles/Croke park or Avivia stadium......and then once game is over everybody tries to escape the place as soon as possible and he whole road network grids to a hault. As bad as some people perceive the Walsh Park option to be I think it’s the only practical solution0 -
They dont, but imagine having only road to park on in the vicinity..
Least when its in a town/city you can spread the burden across many streets and also plenty of clubs around Walsh Park that would love to offer parking at €5 a pop.
The more you think about it the more the ‘lack of parking’ for a refurbed Walsh Park is just a red herring / straw man argument......I’ve been to a few big stadiums in the USA where they have the stadium out of town with acres of car park spaces and beside major road networks, it is stil chaotic on big Match days. Before the game when people start arriving there are ‘tail gate’ parties in the car park which give a certain amount of pre-Game buzz but nothing comparable to a thieves/Croke park or Avivia stadium......and then once game is over everybody tries to escape the place as soon as possible and he whole road network grids to a hault. As bad as some people perceive the Walsh Park option to be I think it’s the only practical solution
Imagine 75% of people drove (18,750) with 4 in each car, that's 4687 spaces needed in a car park.
It'd want to be some car park out there to have that amount of spaces for two days a year.0 -
The more you think about it the more the ‘lack of parking’ for a refurbed Walsh Park is just a red herring / straw man argument......I’ve been to a few big stadiums in the USA where they have the stadium out of town with acres of car park spaces and beside major road networks, it is stil chaotic on big Match days. Before the game when people start arriving there are ‘tail gate’ parties in the car park which give a certain amount of pre-Game buzz but nothing comparable to a thieves/Croke park or Avivia stadium......and then once game is over everybody tries to escape the place as soon as possible and he whole road network grids to a hault. As bad as some people perceive the Walsh Park option to be I think it’s the only practical solution
Completely agree looking at the options you have options to park at Tesco Lisduggan / The RSC / New Street Car Park (is that going to be gone with Michael Street development?) and Shuttle bus options to Carraiganore and Harvey Norman. Also there would be alot or parking space along the road from the Cattle Mart all the way into Lismore park not ideal but people do walk a good bit from the golf club in Thurles to the pitch and the walk from Cork City to the Pairc via the Marina is a good stretch. Coupled with a good traffic management plan it shouldnt be a big deal for 2 or 3 days a year. Cannot understand the parking argument really.
Although walsh park is not ideal it really is the best option. Its half the price of doing Fraher Field and carraiganore wont be financed by the GAA with a tenant agreement. The county board are just working with what they have and however frustrating it is what it is they cannot magic up millions without heavily levying clubs for years to come and they dont want to do that again.
No flood lights and a 3 sided stadium is disappointing however.0 -
Completely agree looking at the options you have options to park at Tesco Lisduggan / The RSC / New Street Car Park (is that going to be gone with Michael Street development?) and Shuttle bus options to Carraiganore and Harvey Norman. Also there would be alot or parking space along the road from the Cattle Mart all the way into Lismore park not ideal but people do walk a good bit from the golf club in Thurles to the pitch and the walk from Cork City to the Pairc via the Marina is a good stretch. Coupled with a good traffic management plan it shouldnt be a big deal for 2 or 3 days a year. Cannot understand the parking argument really.
Although walsh park is not ideal it really is the best option. Its half the price of doing Fraher Field and carraiganore wont be financed by the GAA with a tenant agreement. The county board are just working with what they have and however frustrating it is what it is they cannot magic up millions without heavily levying clubs for years to come and they dont want to do that again.
No flood lights and a 3 sided stadium is disappointing however.
Or ability to host concerts. Biggest issue. Clubs are broken from paying levies to a county board that has no vision, no business acumen & totally unprofessional.
Parish pump politicians one and all.0 -
thesaturdayman wrote: »Or ability to host concerts. Biggest issue. Clubs are broken from paying levies to a county board that has no vision, no business acumen & totally unprofessional.
Parish pump politicians one and all.
Would the clubs not benefit from an essentially free upgrade of WP, to 16000? Fill that twice a year there would be a nice bit of change.
Carriganore would involve getting into debt so wouldn't this (in short term at least) be bad for clubs?0 -
Would the clubs not benefit from an essentially free upgrade of WP, to 16000? Fill that twice a year there would be a nice bit of change.
Carriganore would involve getting into debt so wouldn't this (in short term at least) be bad for clubs?
How is it free? Clubs have paid 14,000 in levies to date & will pay another 14,000 by time this thing is done.
That’s 30k for nothing. No benefit Gaa or wider society. No floodlit games. No alternative money raising.
It’s lipstick on a pig. End of.0 -
thesaturdayman wrote: »How is it free? Clubs have paid 14,000 in levies to date & will pay another 14,000 by time this thing is done.
That’s 30k for nothing. No benefit Gaa or wider society. No floodlit games. No alternative money raising.
It’s lipstick on a pig. End of.
Is it not €2000 per year for 5 years (€10,000)? What would the levy be on a new build in Carriganore?0 -
Is it not €2000 per year for 5 years (€10,000)? What would the levy be on a new build in Carriganore?
Forward looking I believe 7 years been quoted.
Previous one was same as the above.
No finances been discussed for carriganore, if clubs were agreeable for this then definitely for a more future proof option.0 -
thesaturdayman wrote: »Or ability to host concerts. Biggest issue. Clubs are broken from paying levies to a county board that has no vision, no business acumen & totally unprofessional.
Parish pump politicians one and all.
What kind of concerts would we get??? I always here this argument, we can hold concerts and it will pay for itself.
Look around at other GAA venues, not to many concerts, granted ed sheeran last year. Before that, galway, limerick, kilarney and nowlan park concerts are far and few between.
Nowlan park has had 8 concerts since 2001, thats 8 in 17 years! Yes it is an income but the fact is we could build a new green field site for €15 - €20 million and never host a concert!
Imagine the levy on the clubs then!
Carriganore looks good but realistically do we need anything bigger than 16k for the next 15-20 years?
I don't think so, so why not get Walsh Park done now, get our county teams back playing at home and in 2-3 years enter into talks with WIT about the possibility of moving in the next 15-20 if it is required.
County board being hammered on this but it is the GAA who are very reluctant to share a venue, they are hell bent on owning their grounds 100%.
Louth GAA had the same issue with DKIT.
GAA and Munster council have stated only funding is available for walsh park, and without funding from both the MC nad GAA there is no way on earth waterford on its own could fund either a new stadium or redevloped walsh park, so what do they do.
Personally I'm not keen on a three sided stadium, would have preferred to have seen the current stand knocked and redesigned in a way that dressing rooms would be located underneath allowing for more terracing at the town end. (Probably add on another €1-€2 milliom so that's probably why)
Lack of floodlights is also disappointing.
Parking not an issue, WIT main campus, good shepards, st pauls primary and secondary school, st pauls gaa, st pauls church, mount sion gaa, rsc, city centre car parks with fanzone located in the applemarket
Job done.
Just for the fun of it, feck WIT, relocate the running track in the RSC to one of the other RSC pitches, constructed a 200 seater stand at the new running track location for athletics.
This then allows to extend the main RSC pitch, increase stands and terracing and we have a modern stadium practically in the heart of the city. Thats the plan I would be pushing if we had a choice.0 -
Advertisement
Advertisement