What to do about Walsh Park?

Clareman

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Except when (and it happened on Sunday) the owners of the car parks (Tesco, Aldi) prevented match-goers parking in their car parks.

It is so wrong on every level to expect private car parks to cater for match goer's vehicles, without some prior 'arrangement' with the GAA.

That there were parking difficulties means that a considerable number of people DID drive .... right into the centre of town!
Others parked their cars where they could, again in town, and walked from there to the ground.

It would make interesting reading to find out what percentage of Clare supporters who attended the game, did not make use any vehicle to get to the ground, or close enough to walk to the ground.
Presumably the vast majority of the visitors supporters used vehicles to get there.

It would appear the great majority of attendees at the game used a vehicle to attend.

Most city & town planners spend their time devising ways to keep vehicular traffic out of city/town centres, so stadia like Cusack Park and Walsh Park are really throw-backs to times long past.
There was a time in living memory that Walsh Park was on the very outskirts of Waterford ... just about 'in the country' - a time when families walked out 'Paddy Browne's Long Road' on a fine Sunday afternoon for recreation with not a house to be seen!

For a big match, such as last weekend, other car parks are open within parking distance of the town, Aldi and Tesco can't be gotten near so no parkign there, off the top of my head last Sunday there was parking available at the Council Offices, the Mart and each school.

For normal matches there's normally no issue in getting parking, in the evenings most car parks are empty anyway. There hasn't been an issue for any of the football qualifiers down there the years either.

Clareman

deiseach wrote: »

What are the precedents for park-and-ride facilities in places the size of Waterford?

Works well in Limerick for Munster matches in Thomond Park

Johnboy1951

914 wrote: »

.....
If the stadium is located out of town chances are people will be driving.

I would maintain that the majority of attendees use vehicles to go to the games in the present instance.

I say that on the basis that any Waterford supporter not living in reasonable proximity to the stadium would use a car (lack of regular public transport and the spread of support over the county) and almost all visiting team supporters would also use cars.

We really cannot get away from the fact that cars have to be accommodated in some manner or form ...... sufficient car spaces at the ground, or some other schemes such as park and ride from one or several locations.

Such planning needs to be part of the overall plan with agreements in place for when required.
Also the onus should be on the GAA to make proper arrangements (whatever they are) on the day.

To approve planning permission for the ground redevelopment without those elements being an integral part of the approval, would be a mistake IMO.

theyoungchap

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I would maintain that the majority of attendees use vehicles to go to the games in the present instance.

I say that on the basis that any Waterford supporter not living in reasonable proximity to the stadium would use a car (lack of regular public transport and the spread of support over the county) and almost all visiting team supporters would also use cars.

We really cannot get away from the fact that cars have to be accommodated in some manner or form ...... sufficient car spaces at the ground, or some other schemes such as park and ride from one or several locations.

Such planning needs to be part of the overall plan with agreements in place for when required.
Also the onus should be on the GAA to make proper arrangements (whatever they are) on the day.

To approve planning permission for the ground redevelopment without those elements being an integral part of the approval, would be a mistake IMO.

Nobody is saying that people don't drive or won't drive to a match. But the cities and towns can all provide enough on street parking - this is an issue for 2 hours, an absolute max of 5-10 times a year. So there is no need to be OTT and use an incredible amount of building materials (which are a huge contributor to a carbon footprint) for a problem which isn't really a problem in the grands scheme of things.

Having lived close to a ground before, I have to say I never found it a massive inconvenience. It is gone after 2-3 hours and the area gets a nice spring clean!

Build a ground to hold 15-20k, close to town, use existing industrial car parks, etc which aren't being used for parking on a Saturday/Sunday. Job done.

914

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I would maintain that the majority of attendees use vehicles to go to the games in the present instance.

I say that on the basis that any Waterford supporter not living in reasonable proximity to the stadium would use a car (lack of regular public transport and the spread of support over the county) and almost all visiting team supporters would also use cars.

We really cannot get away from the fact that cars have to be accommodated in some manner or form ...... sufficient car spaces at the ground, or some other schemes such as park and ride from one or several locations.

Such planning needs to be part of the overall plan with agreements in place for when required.
Also the onus should be on the GAA to make proper arrangements (whatever they are) on the day.

To approve planning permission for the ground redevelopment without those elements being an integral part of the approval, would be a mistake IMO.

Once again I shall point out parking solutions....


Zero on street parking policy. 0.5km cordon around walsh park except for residents

Parking facilities which should be considered to use are

St pauls primary and secondary schools
Rsc
WIT
millars marsh
Bolton street
Gas works
Quays
Old waterford crystal playing fields
Dls, roanmore, st Pauls and mount sion gaa clubs
Mercy primary and secondary schools

All locations above are no more than a 20 minute walk to walsh park. Would work as a money earner for all those involved.

A capacity of 16k we are looking at, most cars would have 2-5 people in them, some will walk (anyone living within 5k of the ground) some buses for visiting supporters.

With all that in mind we would be probably looking at 3-6k vehicles give or take. Plenty parking available for that amount.

spideyman92

914 wrote: »

Once again I shall point out parking solutions....


Zero on street parking policy. 0.5km cordon around walsh park except for residents

Parking facilities which should be considered to use are

St pauls primary and secondary schools
Rsc
WIT
millars marsh
Bolton street
Gas works
Quays
Old waterford crystal playing fields
Dls, roanmore, st Pauls and mount sion gaa clubs
Mercy primary and secondary schools

All locations above are no more than a 20 minute walk to walsh park. Would work as a money earner for all those involved.

A capacity of 16k we are looking at, most cars would have 2-5 people in them, some will walk (anyone living within 5k of the ground) some buses for visiting supporters.

With all that in mind we would be probably looking at 3-6k vehicles give or take. Plenty parking available for that amount.

The Waterford COCO regs for parking required is based around the capacity of a building (a stadium in this instance). Off the top of my head I think it's around 1 space for every 15 people and 1 bus space for every 500.

Road-Hog

spideyman92 wrote: »

The Waterford COCO regs for parking required is based around the capacity of a building (a stadium in this instance). Off the top of my head I think it's around 1 space for every 15 people and 1 bus space for every 500.

Talks of building a new out of town stadium is just nonsense.....for a start it is cost prohibitive and would take 3-4 years minimum as Walsh park would have to be sold new site purchased planning, environmental impacts etc......a 16/18,000 redeveloped Walsh park should suffice and will take the least amount of time to complete.....talks of traffic chaos etc is just a ‘straw man’ argument......3/4 occasions a year is max that the ground would be filled, if the public at large in the surrounding areas of Walsh park and environs can’t cope with that then I give up.....for the fans again as has been pointed out the quay and others peripheral areas are a mere 20 min walk to Walsh park, the majority of people can manage this for a game in Thurles or Croke Park then what is the difference with Walsh park.....?

914

Road-Hog wrote: »

Talks of building a new out is town stadium is just nonsense.....for a start is cost prohibitive and would take 3-4 years minimum as Walsh park would have to be sold new site purchased planning, environmental impacts etc......a 16/18,000 redeveloped Walsh park should suffice and will take the least amount of time to complete.....talks of traffic chaos etc is just a ‘straw man’ argument......3/4 occasions a year is max that the ground would be filled, if the public at large in the surrounding areas of Walsh park and environs can’t cope with that then I give up.....for the fans again as has been pointed out the quay and others peripheral areas are a mere 20 min walk to walk park, the majority of people can’t manage this for a game in Thurles or Croke Park then what is the difference with Walsh park.....?

Spot on

Deiseen

Road-Hog wrote: »

spideyman92 wrote: »

The Waterford COCO regs for parking required is based around the capacity of a building (a stadium in this instance). Off the top of my head I think it's around 1 space for every 15 people and 1 bus space for every 500.

Talks of building a new out is town stadium is just nonsense.....for a start is cost prohibitive and would take 3-4 years minimum as Walsh park would have to be sold new site purchased planning, environmental impacts etc......a 16/18,000 redeveloped Walsh park should suffice and will take the least amount of time to complete.....talks of traffic chaos etc is just a ‘straw man’ argument......3/4 occasions a year is max that the ground would be filled, if the public at large in the surrounding areas of Walsh park and environs can’t cope with that then I give up.....for the fans again as has been pointed out the quay and others peripheral areas are a mere 20 min walk to walk park, the majority of people can’t manage this for a game in Thurles or Croke Park then what is the difference with Walsh park.....?

But.. but.. b... B.... PARKIN'!!!!!!

TheQuietFella

Couldn't you just imagine what would be 'left' after all the people had gone their 'merry' way!
No schools or any business suggested in their right mind should even consider same and what of insurance implications if they were to?

Road-Hog

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Couldn't you just imagine what would be 'left' after all the people had gone their 'merry' way!
No schools or any business suggested in their right mind should even consider same and what of insurance implications if they were to?

I assume you are referring to schools etc offering parking in the vicinity of walsh park. Can I point out that such a ‘model’ is used all around the environs of croke park on match days and also thurles...(think I parked in a boxing club car park in thurles a couple of years ago....) what would you think Waterford would be any different...?

914

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Couldn't you just imagine what would be 'left' after all the people had gone their 'merry' way!
No schools or any business suggested in their right mind should even consider same and what of insurance implications if they were to?

Take St Pauls secondary, using their field and car park they could possobly fit 200-400 cars.

Most places now charge €10 for parking. We'll take the lower end, they could generate €2000 per game.

Two home games, €4k nice earner for the school to reinvest in equipment, maintenance etc....

O Connell school beside croke park clean up with parking. Think they now charge €15 a car and they fit either 200 or 250 cars.

Take mount sion gaa club, using car park and primary pitches, they could easily have 500+ cars. €10 a car and also the money they could make of food and drink in the bar.

They could easily make €5k + per game, you couldn't turn down that opportunity to make that kind of money.

Parked in the con rugby club last year and they had that kind of set up. Even had a bar outside the club house, they cleaned up

theyoungchap

€10 for parking, I think I'd draw the limit at a fiver and if that doesn't work I'd find somewhere on the street and walk!

mooseknunkle

914 wrote: »

Take St Pauls secondary, using their field and car park they could possobly fit 200-400 cars.

Most places now charge €10 for parking. We'll take the lower end, they could generate €2000 per game.

Two home games, €4k nice earner for the school to reinvest in equipment, maintenance etc....

O Connell school beside croke park clean up with parking. Think they now charge €15 a car and they fit either 200 or 250 cars.

Take mount sion gaa club, using car park and primary pitches, they could easily have 500+ cars. €10 a car and also the money they could make of food and drink in the bar.

They could easily make €5k + per game, you couldn't turn down that opportunity to make that kind of money.

Parked in the con rugby club last year and they had that kind of set up. Even had a bar outside the club house, they cleaned up

What field in St Pauls secondary?,been a long time since i went to school there but the playing fields are on high grounds and cant be accessed by cars.

Theres a big massive field at the front of Hillview that could easily fit 500 or more cars and its a 10 min walk to Walsh park.

Deiseen

Good to see the conversation moving onto parking. This is something Waterford clubs have missed out on for too long, while clubs in other counties clean up. In terms of raising money you can't beat a full carpark. Mount sion would absolutely rake it in with the club house there too.

theyoungchap

Deiseen wrote: »

Good to see the conversation moving onto parking. This is something Waterford clubs have missed out on for too long, while clubs in other counties clean up. In terms of raising money you can't beat a full carpark. Mount sion would absolutely rake it in with the club house there too.

There is a soccer club across from Wexford Park who must clean up when there is a match there. I cant remember their name.

914

mooseknunkle wrote: »

What field in St Pauls secondary?,been a long time since i went to school there but the playing fields are on high grounds and cant be accessed by cars.

Theres a big massive field at the front of Hillview that could easily fit 500 or more cars and its a 10 min walk to Walsh park.

Yes the football pitch in St Pauls, can be accessed by a hill beside the school or to make ot easier, put a gate on Belevedere

TheQuietFella

Road-Hog wrote: »

I assume you are referring to schools etc offering parking in the vicinity of walsh park. Can I point out that such a ‘model’ is used all around the environs of croke park on match days and also thurles...(think I parked in a boxing club car park in thurles a couple of years ago....) what would you think Waterford would be any different...?

I've been to games in Thurles where I've left the car in the mart and
returned later as one does to find guys urinating all around the parking area.

914

TheQuietFella wrote: »

I've been to games in Thurles where I've left the car in the mart and
returned later as one does to find guys urinating all around the parking area.

Thats where using schools and clubs has a benefit as toilets would be available.

Con rugby club in cork could hold up to 1200 cars (€10 entry) if memory serves me correct. People drinking at the club house bar and outside bar and not one person urinating all around the parking area.

Plenty of stewards availble most likely club members. Huge revenue boost for the club, hard not to see why clubs, schools business wouldn't opt for parking.

One would imagine, the revenue generated would cover the insurance and still make a profit

TheQuietFella

I think ye need to get real lads!

There is no comparison towards Cork Con' and our local primary and secondary schools and who would act as stewards, the students?

914

TheQuietFella wrote: »

I think ye need to get real lads!

There is no comparison towards Cork Con' and our local primary and secondary schools and who would act as stewards, the students?

Rsc, Mount Sion GAA club, WIT, Quays, Bolton Street, Gas Works, Millars Marsh. That is before we even mention schools.

What about O Connell school beside Croke Park? Normally marshalled by Christen Brothers and parents associstion. No need to use students.

Heck if someone threw be €50 for the day I'll marshall at a car park!

theyoungchap

914 wrote: »

Rsc, Mount Sion GAA club, WIT, Quays, Bolton Street, Gas Works, Millars Marsh. That is before we even mention schools.

What about O Connell school beside Croke Park? Normally marshalled by Christen Brothers and parents associstion. No need to use students.

Heck if someone threw be €50 for the day I'll marshall at a car park!

Volunteers and parents in schools, etc generally do this. It is a long way ahead of a voluntary contribution

Blaas4life

TheQuietFella wrote: »

I think ye need to get real lads!

There is no comparison towards Cork Con' and our local primary and secondary schools and who would act as stewards, the students?

Tbh I wouldn't park in a car park at a match...they are always an absolute diaster to get out off imo

Deiselurker

No matter what is done with Walsh Park some Waterford people will moan about it and that there won't be enough parking for the 2 times a year it will be full. There's plenty parking available within walking distance of the ground as pointed out in this thread . The IDA industrial estate could be used and you could use the WIT arena in Carriganore for park and ride. Paddy Joe Ryan and Pat Flynn were on Wlr and explained why they were going ahead with Walsh Park rather than other options and why capacity would be 16500 or so so it's time to get behind it now. Hopefully it will be ready for 2020.

914

Interesting to see how things develop in Kildare. Similair capacity to Walsh Park and Kildare CC standing firm that they will play at home to Mayo.

If they pull this off no reason why Walsh Park can not be used in 2019 for championship unless building works reduce capacity further

TheQuietFella

914 wrote: »

Interesting to see how things develop in Kildare. Similair capacity to Walsh Park and Kildare CC standing firm that they will play at home to Mayo.

If they pull this off no reason why Walsh Park can not be used in 2019 for championship unless building works reduce capacity further

Newbridge is a one road town and it will be utter chaos and grid lock if the
game goes ahead there. Typical Irish small mindedness!

deiseach

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Newbridge is a one road town and it will be utter chaos and grid lock if the
game goes ahead there. Typical Irish small mindedness!

As opposed to the free-flow of traffic, both vehicular and human, at every other venue on the day of a big match.

TheQuietFella

deiseach wrote: »

As opposed to the free-flow of traffic, both vehicular and human, at every other venue on the day of a big match.

If you have ever been to Newbridge then please continue!

theyoungchap

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Newbridge is a one road town and it will be utter chaos and grid lock if the
game goes ahead there. Typical Irish small mindedness!

I am sure they can hold 8k people......it'd be easier than Croke Park to get to anyway!!

IanVW

New Walsh park