What to do about Walsh Park?

Harry Palmr

When Waterford FC are a Champions League side they'll have to play home games in Cork or Limerick probably.

Max Powers

Deiseen wrote: »

All for supporting the blues, but hurling is king and unless something drastic happens, you will never see the same crowds at a Blues game.

Possibly but there is more people going significantly more often to RSC than walsh park.

deiseach

Harry Palmr wrote: »

As I said they want it done as quickly and cheaply as possible. This issue will never be fixed as long as Fraher Field is there, Waterford GAA needs to plant it's flag in either Dungarvan or the City for once and for all time.

Just spotted there are no plans for floodlights, which seems short-sighted as well. Then again that's probably a tricky planning issue with the houses so close on two sides.

All the games that are pushing the demand for a new/improved ground will be played in or around June. Perversely I think the state of Walsh Park makes it the better option for redevelopment 'as quickly and cheaply as possible' (I'm not being a smart arse by putting that in quotes, as quickly and cheaply as possible is definitely a factor in all this. By the time a a brand new venue would be built the landscape of the hurling championship could be completely different.) If they went for the Fraher option, Walsh Park would still need work, if only so it isn't a death trap.

Deiseen

Max Powers wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

All for supporting the blues, but hurling is king and unless something drastic happens, you will never see the same crowds at a Blues game.

Possibly but there is more people going significantly more often to RSC than walsh park.

That is true, so its hard to compare!

deiseach

The highest average attendance in the League of Ireland in 2018 is 4,448. Even the most optimistic projection of the progress of the Blues should not involve them needing a 15,000+ capacity stadium.

Johnboy1951

Why should almost everyone be thinking along the lines of a one-use stadium?

Surely any stadium worth having should be buit for multiple-type events and not just those of the 'primary' purpose ...... whether that is GAA, Soccer, Music Gig, or other type.

Of course the GAA traditionally would not touch anything contaminated with soccer which has not helped at all.

914

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Why should almost everyone be thinking along the lines of a one-use stadium?

Surely any stadium worth having should be buit for multiple-type events and not just those of the 'primary' purpose ...... whether that is GAA, Soccer, Music Gig, or other type.

Of course the GAA traditionally would not touch anything contaminated with soccer which has not helped at all.

Fully agree with this. Waterford and Ireland in generally is too small (population wise) for different venues for different sports.

Would love to see a bit of vision here involving several parties. Move the running track in the RSC to one of the pitches behind the main pitch while construction a stand for 200-400 spectators for athletics.

Then construct a 15/20k (even start with 10/12k and expanding over a period of time) stadium on the main pitch for Waterford FC, Waterford GAA, rugby (munster B fixtures and possibly the odd first team) and concerts.

Funding sought from waterford council, fai, gaa, irfu, atheltics Ireland, department of sport, lotto and private investment.

Irelands first fully fledged multi sport regional sports centre.

Ideal central location. We're already getting 5 million from the GAA, another 1 million in selling Walsh Park. We'd need approx another 4 million and job done.

Max Powers

914 wrote: »

Fully agree with this. Waterford and Ireland in generally is too small (population wise) for different venues for different sports.

Would love to see a bit of vision here involving several parties. Move the running track in the RSC to one of the pitches behind the main pitch while construction a stand for 200-400 spectators for athletics.

Then construct a 15/20k (even start with 10/12k and expanding over a period of time) stadium on the main pitch for Waterford FC, Waterford GAA, rugby (munster B fixtures and possibly the odd first team) and concerts.

Funding sought from waterford council, fai, gaa, irfu, atheltics Ireland, department of sport, lotto and private investment.

Irelands first fully fledged multi sport regional sports centre.

Ideal central location. We're already getting 5 million from the GAA, another 1 million in selling Walsh Park. We'd need approx another 4 million and job done.

Yep, best option IMO. Junior league could also be persuaded to sell up ozier park, bring money to endeavor, and use a new RSC.we need a Martin Cullen type in position to knock heads together to do it and ensure some sort of backing.

Deiseen

Guys, do ye understand the amount of games that are held in Walsh Park? Add in soccer, athletics, concerts and rugby and you will have a logistical impossibility to deal with.

Harry Palmr

You'd only be juggling football really and that's an evening sport for the most part. Munster Rugby is hardly a thing in Waterford, Athletics can stay at the RSC and concerts would obviously have to fit in around sport not the other way round.

Max Powers

Harry Palmr wrote: »

You'd only be juggling football really and that's an evening sport for the most part. Munster Rugby is hardly a thing in Waterford, Athletics can stay at the RSC and concerts would obviously have to fit in around sport not the other way round.

Exactly, my example of the junior league and ozier park also, there are a series of cup final matches in early summer,I don't see scheduling problem, marking pitch, etc

914

Don't think scheduling would be to much of a problem.

Yes walsh park hosts a lot of games and a lot of those are hosted mid week. Granted minor/u21 and senior are weekends generally saturday/sunday.

Waterford fc generally play friday and mondays. Athletics would take place behind the rsc with access availble from kingfisher if required.

Absolutely no issue with scheduling, it would actually be a good complaint and a massive boost to revenue.

Even regarding the club scene in GAA, attendances are fairly poor therfore games if could be also played in faher, WIT Arena and club pitches if needed

deiseach

Having one ground for all sports in Waterford would be a great idea if we were starting from first principles. But we're not. Who would be the neutral party who would adjudicate on scheduling issues? The corpo? With the best will in the world there are going to be problems there, and when you consider how civil war nearly broke out in the GAA over the Kildare-Mayo match and the notorious lack of a relationship between the Blues and the junior leagues, good will is in short supply within sports, let alone between them. The GAA are the only party who don't have a suitable venue. There's no sense in dragging soccer, athletics and rugby (ha!) into providing solutions for the GAA's problem.

Max Powers

deiseach wrote: »

Having one ground for all sports in Waterford would be a great idea if we were starting from first principles. But we're not. Who would be the neutral party who would adjudicate on scheduling issues? The corpo? With the best will in the world there are going to be problems there, and when you consider how civil war nearly broke out in the GAA over the Kildare-Mayo match and the notorious lack of a relationship between the Blues and the junior leagues, good will is in short supply within sports, let alone between them. The GAA are the only party who don't have a suitable venue. There's no sense in dragging soccer, athletics and rugby (ha!) into providing solutions for the GAA's problem.

Having a proper stadium is the sense and fact that multiple venues is silly duplication as we know. I just don't see scheduling as an issue, marking the pitch after one game would be biggest headache IMO, council already have a couple of staff doing excellent work on RSC pitch so no biggie I'd say.the only clash would be for say the summer when hurlers would have a couple of home games and blues playing too, blues play Friday night so between match finished and Sunday hurling, plenty time. County finals and junior league cup finals are rare enough and finished before hurling starts so no panic there.

Deiseen

Max Powers wrote: »

deiseach wrote: »

Having one ground for all sports in Waterford would be a great idea if we were starting from first principles. But we're not. Who would be the neutral party who would adjudicate on scheduling issues? The corpo? With the best will in the world there are going to be problems there, and when you consider how civil war nearly broke out in the GAA over the Kildare-Mayo match and the notorious lack of a relationship between the Blues and the junior leagues, good will is in short supply within sports, let alone between them. The GAA are the only party who don't have a suitable venue. There's no sense in dragging soccer, athletics and rugby (ha!) into providing solutions for the GAA's problem.

Having a proper stadium is the sense and fact that multiple venues is silly duplication as we know. I just don't see scheduling as an issue, marking the pitch after one game would be biggest headache IMO, council already have a couple of staff doing excellent work on RSC pitch so no biggie I'd say.the only clash would be for say the summer when hurlers would have a couple of home games and blues playing too, blues play Friday night so between match finished and Sunday hurling, plenty time. County finals and junior league cup finals are rare enough and finished before hurling starts so no panic there.

And what about Gaelic footballers?

Max Powers

Deiseen wrote: »

And what about Gaelic footballers?

Now your talking minority sports...fraher or any half decent club ground could manage if there was scheduling issues.

Deiseen

Max Powers wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

And what about Gaelic footballers?

Now your talking minority sports...fraher or any half decent club ground could manage if there was scheduling issues.

I'd hardly call Gaelic Football a minority sport... Just because the senior intercounty team are not a top side doesn't mean that there isn't a high participation and following within the county.

deiseach

Max Powers wrote: »

Having a proper stadium is the sense and fact that multiple venues is silly duplication as we know. I just don't see scheduling as an issue, marking the pitch after one game would be biggest headache IMO, council already have a couple of staff doing excellent work on RSC pitch so no biggie I'd say.the only clash would be for say the summer when hurlers would have a couple of home games and blues playing too, blues play Friday night so between match finished and Sunday hurling, plenty time. County finals and junior league cup finals are rare enough and finished before hurling starts so no panic there.

I don't think lining the pitch would be an issue either, shared soccer/rugby league grounds in England manage just fine. You didn't address my point though. Who decides what to do if there is a clash, and what criteria do they use to adjudicate on the clash?

Max Powers

deiseach wrote: »

I don't think lining the pitch would be an issue either, shared soccer/rugby league grounds in England manage just fine. You didn't address my point though. Who decides what to do if there is a clash, and what criteria do they use to adjudicate on the clash?

It's such a minor issue, who cares, they should be able to sort out any clashes handy enough, blues games are well scheduled, gaa know generally when they'll be playing, its a non issue that could easily be arranged, if there was some sort of dispute then yeah, maybe the council or some board of dedicated councillors, independent, could make a call...a non issue

Deiseen

Max Powers wrote: »

deiseach wrote: »

I don't think lining the pitch would be an issue either, shared soccer/rugby league grounds in England manage just fine. You didn't address my point though. Who decides what to do if there is a clash, and what criteria do they use to adjudicate on the clash?

It's such a minor issue, who cares, they should be able to sort out any clashes handy enough, blues games are well scheduled, gaa know generally when they'll be playing, its a non issue that could easily be arranged, if there was some sort of dispute then yeah, maybe the council or some board of dedicated councillors, independent, could make a call...a non issue

GAA will not sign up to a shared stadium. They definitely wont sign up to a stadium that doesn't allow Football to be played there.

Max Powers

Deiseen wrote: »

I'd hardly call Gaelic Football a minority sport... Just because the senior intercounty team are not a top side doesn't mean that there isn't a high participation and following within the county.

I would call it that, certainly half the country y anyway. I'm sure the county football final could be played in joint venue if they really wanted it too.no biggie.

Max Powers

Deiseen wrote: »

GAA will not sign up to a shared stadium. They definitely wont sign up to a stadium that doesn't allow Football to be played there.

This is a problem with the GAAs attitude.some of its members are still stuck in 1950s, foreign sports,we are better, etc

Deiseen

Max Powers wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

GAA will not sign up to a shared stadium. They definitely wont sign up to a stadium that doesn't allow Football to be played there.

This is a problem with the GAAs attitude.some of its members are still stuck in 1950s, foreign sports,we are better, etc

Can you tell me of any other sporting body that allows the promotion of rival sports? It doesn't happen in other countries thats for sure... So the GAA is no different.

Anyway, you are not considering football/hurling senior intercounty, senior/intermediate/junior, minor, under 21, LGFA and camogie.

You might think some of these games can be left out of the stadium but the aim would be to get as many in there as possible. And thats a lot of games.

deiseach

Max Powers wrote: »

It's such a minor issue, who cares, they should be able to sort out any clashes handy enough, blues games are well scheduled, gaa know generally when they'll be playing, its a non issue that could easily be arranged, if there was some sort of dispute then yeah, maybe the council or some board of dedicated councillors, independent, could make a call...a non issue

*sigh* My mistake for engaging with you on this. Carry on.

Johnboy1951

Deiseen wrote: »

Can you tell me of any other sporting body that allows the promotion of rival sports? It doesn't happen in other countries thats for sure... So the GAA is no different.

From where did the 'promotion' come?
Sharing facilities is not promotion!

Lansdowne Road/Aviva Stadium comes to mind for Irish sporting bodies sharing facilities.
Athletics track in RSC is sharing also.
So the 'idea' of sharing facilities is not at all foreign to bodies other than the GAA.
Yes for a regional shared stadium there would need to be more active 'management' of availability, but nothing that could not be done ...... or at least I have not read anything (except the GAA attitude to sharing) that would prevent it.

Anyway, you are not considering football/hurling senior intercounty, senior/intermediate/junior, minor, under 21, LGFA and camogie.

You might think some of these games can be left out of the stadium but the aim would be to get as many in there as possible. And thats a lot of games.

The ideal would be to have the most attended games there to make best use of the facilities - which are most likely the more important games on the GAA calendar.

The GAA also have Fraher Field for some of those you listed ...... it would help that field to be more integrated into the whole county GAA setup, and likely result in some minor development as it became necessary - under the sole control of the GAA.

Of course this would take complete commitment, from all parties involved, to the project ...... which seems to be where the GAA is lacking particularly in light of Cullen's revelations of past events.

lertsnim

A shared stadium isn't going to happen so why all the talk about one?

Harry Palmr

So we could attack the GAA of course!

It's a discussion forum, we were discussing.

914

Deiseen wrote: »

Can you tell me of any other sporting body that allows the promotion of rival sports? It doesn't happen in other countries thats for sure... So the GAA is no different.

Anyway, you are not considering football/hurling senior intercounty, senior/intermediate/junior, minor, under 21, LGFA and camogie.

You might think some of these games can be left out of the stadium but the aim would be to get as many in there as possible. And thats a lot of games.

Happens a lot in the UK with soccer and rugby clubs, in America with americian football clubs and soccer clubs and in Australia with Aussie Rules ans soccer clubs. Off the top of my head the DW Stadium in Wigan hosts Wigan FC, wigan rugby league and union.

Even croke park has hosted, soccer, rugby and americian football so I wouldn't worry to much about advertising other sports. This is where the GAA needs to come into the 21st century.

As for Gaelic Football all county games are in Faher, the odd club game is in WIT Arena and Walsh Park. Camogie and LGFA are completely different associations ans currently have to reach agreement with the GAA to us GAA venues so it would be no different.

Deiseen

914 wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

Can you tell me of any other sporting body that allows the promotion of rival sports? It doesn't happen in other countries thats for sure... So the GAA is no different.

Anyway, you are not considering football/hurling senior intercounty, senior/intermediate/junior, minor, under 21, LGFA and camogie.

You might think some of these games can be left out of the stadium but the aim would be to get as many in there as possible. And thats a lot of games.

Happens a lot in the UK with soccer and rugby clubs, in America with americian football clubs and soccer clubs and in Australia with Aussie Rules ans soccer clubs. Off the top of my head the DW Stadium in Wigan hosts Wigan FC, wigan rugby league and union.

Even croke park has hosted, soccer, rugby and americian football so I wouldn't worry to much about advertising other sports. This is where the GAA needs to come into the 21st century.

As for Gaelic Football all county games are in Faher, the odd club game is in WIT Arena and Walsh Park. Camogie and LGFA are completely different associations ans currently have to reach agreement with the GAA to us GAA venues so it would be no different.

You don't think the GAA would not want to use Waterford's flagship stadium for Football? Or that the club's, who would ultimately vote for this, would not want that either? That they would be happy to play in crappy aul Fraher while soccer games are going on in the shiney new stadium? Come on now, get real!

Everyone complains about the GAA not joining up, but the only ones this would benefit are Soccer and Rugby (to a lesser extent).

Can you tell me what benefit it would be to the GAA? Why is the onus on them, to share out what they have created, just because the FAI and IRFU don't have the same level of facilities? Its up to them invest, not for the GAA to hand out. Simple as that.

Christy Browne

People in this thread are laughably ignorant to the sheer amount of games that take place in Walsh Park every year.

Add in soccer and rugby and whatever other sport you can throw a stick at and the pitch would be in absolutely terrible condition for a lot of these games.