About to rent our house. So many questions!

Whispered

As per the title, we are about to rent our house to move into a family members now empty home. I have some questions and would appreciate opinions on some things.

Firstly, our neighbours have already told us they have friends looking to rent in the area. They've vouched for them as decent people. Pros and cons of renting to them? I'm worried that if, in time, we want to move back in, it might sour relations between ourselves and the neighbours.

Agents, what exactly do they do? Do they guide you through tax payments?
Do they set up contracts correctly so that we are protected should we wish to move back into our house at some stage? What are the benefits of using an agent?

Is there anywhere I can go to get an idea of the costs involved in renting out our house?

Where would I find a checklist of exactly what we need to provide in the house?

What state of repair would you expect a house to be in? We currently live here so look after it but it's not brand new. Bit of wear and tear on the sofa, scratches on the hallway cabinet from dropping keys on it, that sort of thing. Does all furniture have to be new, all walls and ceilings freshly painted etc? (New mattresses will be provided of course!)

If a bedroom is double size, does the bed provided have to be a double bed? Likewise does each bedroom need to have a bed? (Boxroom is tiny and while a bed fits, we removed it)

Opinions on telling any tenant that they can redecorate should they wish, offering to rent furnished or unfurnished etc

Any other pieces of advice? As you can see we're not familiar with how it works.

Avatar MIA

Any tenant will want certainty, and will need to dovetail with your needs.

You'll need to be able to tell them, okay this is for 6 months minimum or whatever...

If you're saying you're unsure about the time they can stay there, 'maybe a month or more, depends....' then you'll not attract the highest calibre of tenant (or any).

Agents will do what you pay them to do. They can manage the relationship with the tenant i.e. look for tenants for you to vet, collect the money, be the go between between you and the tenant.

What happens if the cooker breaks do you want the agent to source a repair man (for a fee) or simply pass the call to you.

Agents will know a lot about the tax requirements, but they are not accountants and will most likely not officially advise you in that respect.

You're right you can rent with or without furniture. You can have the state of the house in any way you like. The better it is the more likely you'll get a tenant, and possibly a better tenant (no guarantee there) and the more you'll get as rent - potentially.

I would think the agent would be able to help you with the type of contracts and will guide you to do what you need to do, such as registering as a landlord etc.

Also, see here http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/repairs_maintenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html

Whispered

Thank you. The move to the other house will be a total change of lifestyle so we've committed to at least a year. However I know I can't have my cake and eat it. It feels unfair to say "I hope a tenant makes this their home" and in the same breath add "for a year". After the year it may become permanent, it may not. Depending on how we settle. Should a tenant be told this? In the interest of decency I feel like they should but I don't want us leaving ourselves open to someone who doesn't care about the property because they might only be there a year.

With regards to repairs, our plan was to open a new account solely for the house. In it have 2 months mortgage plus some extra to cover repairs when needed. I'd be happy to deal with organising that myself as we know people living in the town anyway. Tradesmen we use ourselves for repairs. So maybe an accountant would be money better spent. I have a huge fear of getting the taxes wrong!

Are there generic (but legal) rental agreements available that we could use? Allowing us to avoid using an agent? Or would an agent provide more protection somehow?

I'm sure I'll have many more questions!!

Thanks.

Ah insurance! I'm assuming normal house insurance won't cut it. Broker my best bet here?

DoozerT6

OP when the time comes, you will also need to inform Revenue that you are renting out your home. You will be taxed on the rental income.

Whispered

Yep of course. Have mentioned that we are considering hiring an accountant to set us up with that. I have a tax return to do for last year anyway so might just have someone do both at the same time.

Is there a set rate or does it depend on tax credits etc

Also does renting out the house have an affect on TRS?

scarepanda

Op, as a renter, something just struck me about your post that I think for any long term Tennant it's important you get your head around and it's this: once you move out, while it's still your house, it's not your home.

We rented a house off a couple in a similar situation to yours and we felt like guests in someone else's house. As renters, it was a very uncomfortable position to be in and we left after the minimum 6 months we had agreed with them.

Also, i wouldn't worry to much about the furniture your provide. If your renting to a couple/family most I would think would prefer to have as little of your stuff as possible. There's nothing worse than trying to make a home around someone else's stuff. Although if your renting to young professionals then more may be needed.

Whispered

scarepanda wrote: »

Op, as a renter, something just struck me about your post that I think for any long term Tennant it's important you get your head around and it's this: once you move out, while it's still your house, it's not your home.

We rented a house off a couple in a similar situation to yours and we felt like guests in someone else's house. As renters, it was a very uncomfortable position to be in and we left after the minimum 6 months we had agreed with them.

Also, i wouldn't worry to much about the furniture your provide. If your renting to a couple/family most I would think would prefer to have as little of your stuff as possible. There's nothing worse than trying to make a home around someone else's stuff. Although if your renting to young professionals then more may be needed.

Honestly I think you're reading my posts and attaching it to your own situation. I would love nothing more than to hand the house over and have someone make their home in it. I do want to protect our right to return to it should we need to, that is not unreasonable. Having considered this for quite some time I have my head around house vs home, as you say.

I'm sorry you felt uncomfortable in your former home. Can I ask what exactly made you move on? Was the LL too involved? Calling all the time? Etc

Also how would you feel about viewing a house and the owner asking you what furniture you want or don't want. We will have to buy new beds for tenants - I was considering allowing viewing before that and when we've agreed on tenants, asking if they want any particular types (i.e. Two singles for the large room rather than one double, double bed in master bedroom etc). Similarly the master bedroom needs to be painted. I'd be happy to do it whatever way a tenant wants. Or should I just get the house ready, then allow viewing, and let them take it as is.

Madscientist30

In our case we got an agent and they gave us all the receipts and documents for rent and repairs etc and we made our own tax return to Revenue. If it is a fairly simple case for one house I think the tax return is very doable on your own, and you can do it easily online now.

Madscientist30

On the furniture, we had beds in the rooms and the tenants asked us to remove them as they had their own already to bring to the house, so I wouldnt be rushing out to buy furniture that they didnt need. Unless the place is in a bad condition or you think you might have trouble renting I would not bother with painting, tenants are free to do that themselves. We didnt really bother with anything decorative but if there was something affecting their use of the house we have changed it, like we installed a water softener for them because it is a hard water area and was affecting the shower, kettles etc and we had just not got round to doing it ourselves when we lived there.

K.Flyer

Whispered wrote: »

Firstly, our neighbours have already told us they have friends looking to rent in the area. They've vouched for them as decent people. Pros and cons of renting to them? I'm worried that if, in time, we want to move back in, it might sour relations between ourselves and the neighbours.

Just on this.
You cannot rely on some neighbour vouching for their friend as being a suitable tenant.
All potential tenants need to be very carefully vetted.
You need to become familiar with tenant rights, especially part 4 tenancy etc.
If this is not something that you are familiar with or comfortable with doing then you need to hand it over to the professionals to take care of.
They should be ensuring that the potential tenant and your property meets all the required criteria, deals with the contracts, financial checks and PRTB.
You first need to find out what your potential rental income will be and what all you agent fees will be, then sit down with an accountant and work out what your taxation liability will be and what you will end up as a net figure in your hand after all of that.
Not forgetting then, that you will still be liable to pay for repairs or replacement of appliances etc.
So do the numbers first before making any decisions.

Whispered

Okay thank you K.Flyer. That's a good point. I'm solely thinking from a "they won't wreck the place" point of view but as you say it might be best to hand it over to a professional.

K.Flyer

Whispered wrote: »

Okay thank you K.Flyer. That's a good point. I'm solely thinking from a "they won't wreck the place" point of view but as you say it might be best to hand it over to a professional.

One thing I can assure you of and that is that there are no absolute guarantees that a tenant won't wreck your place. But with careful and diligent checking, and knowing how to, this risk is seriously reduced.
Thats why deposits are collected and held onto as a deterrent.

Whispered

What does a check involve usually? Will an agent be able to do a more thorough investigation on a potential tenant than a landlord who doesn't have an agent?

Avatar MIA

Whispered wrote: »

What does a check involve usually? Will an agent be able to do a more thorough investigation on a potential tenant than a landlord who doesn't have an agent?

You need to meet them and get proof of income ideally, bank statements.

You're handing over the use of a €100/€200/€300k asset.

Make sure your insurance covers occupation by tenants.

ShaShaBear

As a current tenant, I'd personally recommend letting unfurnished if you're hoping to rent to a family. Generally a family looking to rent has already been renting, and will have accumulated some, most or all of their own bits and bobs. When we moved into our current house, all the furniture was here. There was an awful lot of messing getting the landlord's stuff out (with his consent) so that we could use our own stuff and for a good few months, there were two sets of furniture in all the rooms! On the other side, if there's a chance you will require it back in a year, perhaps renting unfurnished to a family is not the way to go. It's an awful lot of hassle to move everything you own - beds, wardrobes, a sofa, perhaps a fridge and washing machine etc - to a new house only to have to do it again 12 months later. Renting to a professional couple or on a room basis to a group of professionals with furniture included might suit better.
Definitely get the place professionally cleaned before any viewings and subsequent lettings - make sure everything is fresh. Paint the walls, but give it a few days to settle before viewings. I once moved into a house with an ex and the walls were all freshly painted. That day by the smell of it. A mere month later the mould it was disguising began to come through. I'm very wary of freshly painted houses now. I like to see no scuff marks, chips or scratches - that means it was recently done. But an odour off the paint makes me suspicious.

Lastly, since you've expressed your concern on getting back your house when you need it, I think if this is a big issue then renting simply is not for you. There are any amount of reasons why a tenant might choose or be forced to overhold and while you can solve that issue, it takes more time than you might have if you need to move back in.

4ensic15

I would not rely on a neighbour's recommendations. Some people can be very unreliable but their friends may not be aware of it because they don't have business dealings with them. An agent will be best placed to advise you on the local market and the tenant profile the house suits. They will know what standard of fit out is needed. Agents do not get involved in advising on tax. they may be willing to share and experience but they are not qualified. An accountant will not charge a lot and will advise you before you even move to the other house about record keeping and various options there may be.

Whispered

ShaShaBear wrote: »

As a current tenant, I'd personally recommend letting unfurnished if you're hoping to rent to a family. Generally a family looking to rent has already been renting, and will have accumulated some, most or all of their own bits and bobs. When we moved into our current house, all the furniture was here. There was an awful lot of messing getting the landlord's stuff out (with his consent) so that we could use our own stuff and for a good few months, there were two sets of furniture in all the rooms! On the other side, if there's a chance you will require it back in a year, perhaps renting unfurnished to a family is not the way to go. It's an awful lot of hassle to move everything you own - beds, wardrobes, a sofa, perhaps a fridge and washing machine etc - to a new house only to have to do it again 12 months later. Renting to a professional couple or on a room basis to a group of professionals with furniture included might suit better.
Definitely get the place professionally cleaned before any viewings and subsequent lettings - make sure everything is fresh. Paint the walls, but give it a few days to settle before viewings. I once moved into a house with an ex and the walls were all freshly painted. That day by the smell of it. A mere month later the mould it was disguising began to come through. I'm very wary of freshly painted houses now. I like to see no scuff marks, chips or scratches - that means it was recently done. But an odour off the paint makes me suspicious.

Lastly, since you've expressed your concern on getting back your house when you need it, I think if this is a big issue then renting simply is not for you. There are any amount of reasons why a tenant might choose or be forced to overhold and while you can solve that issue, it takes more time than you might have if you need to move back in.

Kitchen, hallway, boxroom and childs bedroom were all painted recently (within the last 3 months), carpet has been put down on the stairs and landing a few weeks ago. I know the master bedroom has to be painted. I love the sitting room myself, but it could do with a freshening up as it's been 4 years.

My main concern with getting the house back should we need it, is someone staying and not paying. We will be in a family home and therefore wouldn't be made homeless if they didn't leave at the end of agreement but we couldn't manage paying both house payments for long. Actually I would be pretty happy to allow someone stay at the end of their notice, until they find somewhere else but I believe I'd be getting myself back into some sort of contract by allowing that.

WRT furniture, I might offer it furnished or unfurnished. The sitting room suite has some wear and tear so we'd have to replace that prior to tenants moving in so it would save us a fair bit to let it go unfurnished.

daithiK1

"My main concern with getting the house back should we need it, is someone staying"... find someone with something worth going after if things dont work out as planned, however be prepared to take a hit on the rent income for that. dont worry about the rest, its besides the point.

boege

Whispered wrote: »

My main concern with getting the house back should we need it, is someone staying and not paying. We will be in a family home and therefore wouldn't be made homeless if they didn't leave at the end of agreement but we couldn't manage paying both house payments for long. Actually I would be pretty happy to allow someone stay at the end of their notice, until they find somewhere else but I believe I'd be getting myself back into some sort of contract by allowing that.

OP
I would suggest that this is the key area where you need to get professional advise. You can either have a fixed term tenancy wherein you fix the term and terminate at the end, or you may run the risk of wandering into a Part 4 tenancy where, for up to 4 years, the tenant decides if they want to leave.

https://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/terminating-a-fixed-term-tenancy

Whispered

Wandering is definitely an apt way of describing how I feel about this. Yes I think professional advice is needed!

4ensic15

boege wrote: »

OP
I would suggest that this is the key area where you need to get professional advise. You can either have a fixed term tenancy wherein you fix the term and terminate at the end, or you may run the risk of wandering into a Part 4 tenancy where, for up to 4 years, the tenant decides if they want to leave.

https://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/terminating-a-fixed-term-tenancy

If the term is longer than 6 months, Part 4 starts anyway. The expiry of a lease does not terminate the tenancy.

Sarn

Definitely look into how a tenancy can be ended correctly. The timing and correct notice is everything. I don’t think a fixed term lease would be a good idea if you need to get back soon as you cannot serve notice within the fixed term period.

I think the RTB info is wrong. My understanding is that new Part IV tenancies are now 6 years.

Redjacket

Not sure if this helps but someone I know rented a room from a landlord through a website call '<snip>'. There are rooms/whole apartment/whole house available to rent' in the website. I would like to see more properties available in that website as everything is gone very quickly :<

Just Google '<snip>' and go to the 'I am a landlord' page. Several keywords they mentioned :mid to long term rental, unpaid rent guarantee and property damage guarantee. You can also chat with them online.

Pkiernan

Part IV tenancy is now an astonishingly anti landlord 6 years in length.

Whispered

Isn't there a clause though that if the landlord is moving back in notice can be given?

tretorn

As far as I know of the landlord needs the house for either himself or his family he can terminate the tenancy at any time.

Can anyone confirm this.

I wouldnt have anything to do with neighbours and their friends. I was pressurised by a neighbour to let to one of his tenants, I said no because I thought this might be a problem tenant neighbour wanted to get rid of, neighbour rents rooms though and this arrangement isnt subject to tenancy law. I went with a management agency and neighbour was annoyed, he can get over it. I dont want any hassle, I want to rent the house until a family member needs it and I want the house back without hassle.

Pkiernan

tretorn wrote: »

As far as I know of the landlord needs the house for either himself or his family he can terminate the tenancy at any time.

Can anyone confirm this.

I wouldnt have anything to do with neighbours and their friends. I was pressurised by a neighbour to let to one of his tenants, I said no because I thought this might be a problem tenant neighbour wanted to get rid of, neighbour rents rooms though and this arrangement isnt subject to tenancy law. I went with a management agency and neighbour was annoyed, he can get over it. I dont want any hassle, I want to rent the house until a family member needs it and I want the house back without hassle.

If tenant wants to stay you will need at minimum 12 months to get them out, and you will require a court order backed up by a sheriff eviction.

Whispered

Pkiernan wrote: »

If tenant wants to stay you will need at minimum 12 months to get them out, and you will require a court order backed up by a sheriff eviction.

Can you get back rent that they might owe. If for example you gave notice and they didn't leave but stopped paying?

The_Conductor

Whispered wrote: »

Honestly I think you're reading my posts and attaching it to your own situation. I would love nothing more than to hand the house over and have someone make their home in it. I do want to protect our right to return to it should we need to, that is not unreasonable. Having considered this for quite some time I have my head around house vs home, as you say.

You do not have a right to return- should you need to- you have a right to serve notice of the ending of the tenancy on the grounds that you require the property for your own use. It may sound like a subtle difference- its not. The regulatory regime will then kick in- and do its utmost to secure your tenant- and they will be advised not to vacate your property under any circumstances- until they have somewhere they are happy to move to.

It may seem like an irrelevance- however- read this forum- we have people posting every week of how a year, two years later- their tenants still aren't paying rents- and are being assisted by the likes of Threshold to stay in the property- with one recent instance in Galway where the owner of a property had to be put up in a local hotel by the local authority as homeless- as his tenant wasn't paying rent- and hadn't vacated the property (in this instance- Galway City Council had advised the tenant themselves- not to vacate the property).

It is no longer your home when you move out- regardless of how you view it- it is your tenant's home.

If you do not accept that this is a fundamental thing- and that the system will do everything in its power to keep the tenant in your house- even if they stop paying the rent- you shouldn't rent the house.

The_Conductor

Whispered wrote: »

Can you get back rent that they might owe. If for example you gave notice and they didn't leave but stopped paying?

You can get an order against the tenant- in practice the tenant pleads penury and the order is 2-3 Euro a week- and if they haven't paid rent in a year or two- this could be 15 years to pay off their debts.............

The_Conductor

tretorn wrote: »

As far as I know of the landlord needs the house for either himself or his family he can terminate the tenancy at any time.

Can anyone confirm this.

I wouldnt have anything to do with neighbours and their friends. I was pressurised by a neighbour to let to one of his tenants, I said no because I thought this might be a problem tenant neighbour wanted to get rid of, neighbour rents rooms though and this arrangement isnt subject to tenancy law. I went with a management agency and neighbour was annoyed, he can get over it. I dont want any hassle, I want to rent the house until a family member needs it and I want the house back without hassle.

Terminating the tenancy- does not mean the tenant leaves.