Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

GSPfan

yabadabado wrote: »

All three have had their problems but Shaw has done little to prove he is worth keeping and several managers have called into question his professionism.

But other than his professionalism being questioned can you say you’ve watched a game and thought “get him off the pitch”?
I haven’t. I have said that about Pogba and Martial a few times. I just think it’s a mistake to ship him out but it’s hard to defend it too.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

the more i read some of the stuff you post, the more i think you are taking the p!ss

:pac:

Andrew Beef

bangkok wrote: »

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Well you may laugh. Unfortunately, his performances have been no laughing matter. We spunked £89m on this guy. Sanchez will come good and Lukaku has been excellent. But Pogba? He is a nothing player, but there is nuance to that comment. If we were playing 5 aside street football and could pick any United player for our team, he’d be close to the top of the list. He’s clearly a great athlete and he has all of the physical attributes to be world class. Except the most important one; a football brain. He is not astute enough to be a central midfielder. He is not a winger either, nor is he a striker. Perhaps he could be a number 10, but I suspect not. He plays like a little dog running around Herbert Park without a care in the world. And sadly, he is a luxury that we cannot afford to keep; he should be shipped out and replaced with a Luka Modric type or even the man himself for the time being (notwithstanding the fact that he is 32).

the more i read some of the stuff you post, the more i think you are taking the p!ss

Sorry, but am I missing something? If someone was sitting here saying that Lukaku or De Gea weren’t fit for purpose, I’d be all for calling the men in the white coats or grabbing the nearest pitchfork.

Unfortunately, Pogba cost £90m and hasn’t delivered. That’s one side of the equation, but as Goldman Sachs say, if you’re sitting in the seat and not delivering, you’re costing us on the double ‘cause someone who would perform isn’t there.

For all those misguided souls who think we’d get our money back for Pogba, would you sell him if we could? Personally I don’t think a guy who has flopped could possibly command the same level of fee, notwithstanding the inflation within the market. If anything, Pogba’s transfer kicked that inflation off.

bangkok

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Sorry, but am I missing something? If someone was sitting here saying that Lukaku or De Gea weren’t fit for purpose, I’d be all for calling the men in the white coats or grabbing the nearest pitchfork.

Unfortunately, Pogba cost £90m and hasn’t delivered. That’s one side of the equation, but as Goldman Sachs say, if you’re sitting in the seat and not delivering, you’re costing us on the double ‘cause someone who would perform isn’t there.

For all those misguided souls who think we’d get our money back for Pogba, would you sell him if we could? Personally I don’t think a guy who has flopped could possibly command the same level of fee, notwithstanding the inflation within the market. If anything, Pogba’s transfer kicked that inflation off.

Europa league player of the season last year, europa league winner, league cup winner, our top assists this season, our most creative player for last 2 season.. all while he has been "a nothing player"

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

the more i read some of the stuff you post, the more i think you are taking the p!ss

Sorry could not miss this opportunity

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

Sorry could not miss this opportunity

racist

yabadabado

GSPfan wrote: »

But other than his professionalism being questioned can you say you’ve watched a game and thought “get him off the pitch”?
I haven’t. I have said that about Pogba and Martial a few times. I just think it’s a mistake to ship him out but it’s hard to defend it too.

I know what you mean but I think it's clear Jose doesn't rate him so is there any point keeping him? Shaw has done nothing for United since Jose joined, the other two are very frustrating at times but have shown glimpses of what they are capable of and I think Jose wants them around. In hindsight I'd say he's sorry he didn't sort out LB last summer and won't be waiting for Shaw again.

It's a pity because I really wanted Shaw to be the long term LB but it hasn't worked out and it's time to cut the cord. Shaw may well go on to have a very good career but it won't be at United.

Sand

adox wrote: »

He won’t be at Utd next season and to be honest, good riddance. The sort of player that isn’t needed at the club. Very talented but poor attitude/application.

There seems to be a few of them there.

Shaw may simply be the sort of player, or personality, that Mourinho struggles to understand or motivate. He mentioned something similar in an interview last year, certain personality types he gets and knows what to say to get the reaction he wants, and others being a mystery to him. Shaw doesn't strike me as being a Zlatan type that Mourinho clearly respects.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/ShamoonHafez/status/975834049708265472

"Brilliant insight into #MUFC full-back Luke Shaw by ex-#SaintsFC coach Jason Dodd.
Basically saying Shaw is high maintenance, questions his drive and desire and Mourinho has had enough:"

Were any of you listening to OTB with Pat Nevin a short while ago? As is tradition, United/Jose were the focus and 'Jose has lost it since the Sevilla defeat' seemed to be the summation. They played back Jose's 'scathing' comments about Shaw from the weekend. It's the first time I've heard them directly rather than read them.

Have to say, in all that's been said by Jose in the last week or so, the only thing which didn't sit right with me were the comments after the Sevilla game ("United have been here before, knocked out by some of my teams, no big deal...etc")

The 'heritage/inheritance' stuff before the Brighton game is a perfectly honest, objective read of a situation, whether we like to hear it or not. Not only was I in agreement, I actually realised/learned a thing or two from those comments.

The comments about Shaw...

It is a bit public and blunt, all of it (right back to "He was playing with my brain" last season) but I'm not getting the sense of a man who wants to hurt Shaw or damage the player. I get the sense that he is more frustrated and disappointed with him than anyone is and has tried several times to illicit a positive reaction in Shaw with such comments.

Not saying that I agree fully with Jose's methods, but I get the feeling that Shaw means far more to Jose, that Jose looked at him as far more of a promising prospect, than say Memphis, Morgan, Mkhi, or any of the players who Jose let go without much fuss. Jose did previously seek him out when he was manager at Chelsea so he has seen potential in Shaw for a long time by now.

I'm not trying to excuse anything, or put it down to 'Jose is only doing it cause he likes Shaw and wants the best for him', but I can understand what Jose has been doing with the player.

Those positive comments a few weeks ago about how Shaw could be our left back for years to come, and one of the best in the game. With everything that has gone down since then, I have to believe that was just an attempt to get a positive response from Shaw with positive comments. Since then, Jose has seen that approach hasn't worked, and is now likely just calling it as it is with Shaw.

Whether this now gets that positive reaction from Shaw or not is inconsequential to Jose at this stage, as I imagine Shaw's card is stamped in Jose's book.

So...

LB, CB, 2 x CM, likely RB...looks like we'll have another busy Summer.

GSPfan

yabadabado wrote: »

I know what you mean but I think it's clear Jose doesn't rate him so is there any point keeping him? Shaw has done nothing for United since Jose joined, the other two are very frustrating at times but have shown glimpses of what they are capable of and I think Jose wants them around. In hindsight I'd say he's sorry he didn't sort out LB last summer and won't be waiting for Shaw again.

It's a pity because I really wanted Shaw to be the long term LB but it hasn't worked out and it's time to cut the cord. Shaw may well go on to have a very good career but it won't be at United.

Jose defo doesn’t rate him. I think it’s more personal with Shaw though as I think he likes Pogba and Martial and puts up with them but I think he doesn’t want Shaw around anymore.

Jose seems to be trying to force something by treating him the way he is. Maybe Shaw isn’t willing to leave and Jose needs the finances he would free up. Maybe he just hates his face and doesn’t want to look at it anymore.

Cantona's Collars

It's the S*n so no link but it's good to see Jose telling the players to man up and realise what wearing the United shirt means.


The United chief battered them for being “afraid” in Saturday’s FA Cup win over Brighton.
But in an emotional address, he impressed on his bruised players the responsibility they have to their worldwide fanbase.

Mourinho recognises the importance of his role as manager of a club the size of United and passed that message on to his team.

He made it clear they must respect the shirt, the club and its history — as well as the manager — during a passionate speech to his squad.

The Special One told them to accept their responsibilities and appreciate their position as United players while away on international duty.

~Rebel~

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

It's the S*n so no link but it's good to see Jose telling the players to man up and realise what wearing the United shirt means.


The United chief battered them for being “afraid” in Saturday’s FA Cup win over Brighton.
But in an emotional address, he impressed on his bruised players the responsibility they have to their worldwide fanbase.

Mourinho recognises the importance of his role as manager of a club the size of United and passed that message on to his team.

He made it clear they must respect the shirt, the club and its history — as well as the manager — during a passionate speech to his squad.

The Special One told them to accept their responsibilities and appreciate their position as United players while away on international duty.

Did he not just days ago go on a rant detailing how little the clubs history mattered, and how the recent heritage of the club is one of failure?

Though this is *** story, with no quotes, so its likely none of this actually took place anyway.

StringerBell

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Did he not just days ago go on a rant detailing how little the clubs history mattered, and how the recent heritage of the club is one of failure?

Though this is *** story, with no quotes, so its likely none of this actually took place anyway.

No.

bangkok

GSPfan wrote: »

Jose defo doesn’t rate him. I think it’s more personal with Shaw though as I think he likes Pogba and Martial and puts up with them but I think he doesn’t want Shaw around anymore.

Jose seems to be trying to force something by treating him the way he is. Maybe Shaw isn’t willing to leave and Jose needs the finances he would free up. Maybe he just hates his face and doesn’t want to look at it anymore.

His man management of shaw has been awful.

If as one of his previous coaches has said, shaw needs an arm around the shoulder, he is playing for the wrong manager. Mourinhos man management skills are probably one of his worst attributes

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

His man management of shaw has been awful.

If as one of his previous coaches has said, shaw needs an arm around the shoulder, he is playing for the wrong manager. Mourinhos man management skills are probably one of his worst attributes

IF someone is 22 and getting 100k a week, and are given the chance to be involved with one of the biggest football clubs in the world, and still needs "an arm around the shoulder" for motivate, they really need to cop on to themselves and grow the hell up....

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

IF someone is 22 and getting 100k a week, and are given the chance to be involved with one of the biggest football clubs in the world, and still needs "an arm around the shoulder" for motivate, they really need to cop on to themselves and grow the hell up....

Does it matter how old he is or how much he earns?? You should some research on mental health.

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

Does it matter how old he is or how much he earns?? You should some research on mental health.

If Shaw can't take the demands of the club then he really needs to leave the club. Go find a mid-table club where he won't be expected to meet the same standard.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Does it matter how old he is or how much he earns?? You should some research on mental health.

What has mental health got to do it it? Go on.. elaborate.. tell us how Luck Shaw could/is suffer(ing) from a mental health issue.. give us your knowledge of this, without the need for a link dump and quotes from others.. give us your opinion, not someone else’s..

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

Does it matter how old he is or how much he earns?? You should some research on mental health.

Wrong person to start that **** with.

I'm well aware of what mental health issues can do to a person and their work. I also am aware that if Shaw has genuine mental health issues, the club would fund all the help he needs to help him out.

But the reality is now that Shaw is a player who refuses to work hard for a string of managers, and now you're that desperate to slate Jose for it, you're trying to play the mental health card which, to be blunt, is massively offensive in my opinion.

Adamocovic

I'm definitely in the minority so regarding Shaw. All I hear is people saying how difficult he is to work with, but to be honest I know nothing about that. Like said by GSP back, can't remember a game where he was so shocking that I wanted him off immediately (maybe memory is not great). I think he's showed some very good signs this year and still only 22.

If José wants him gone fair enough, but think how he's treated him is extremely hypocritical and annoys me to be honest. He makes a point about not singling out players for criticisms in a press conference (I think it was brought up Pogba's form) but he continues to do so to Shaw. I struggle to remember another player in the team that has be singled out like this.

If Mourinho wants to sell him fair enough, I'd rather we didn't but he's the one working with him and that's football. Go about the business, have your words with the player and sell him, but to continue to play him (15 times this season) and then single him out publicly afterwards just annoys me.

Adamocovic

pjohnson wrote: »

If Shaw can't take the demands of the club then he really needs to leave the club. Go find a mid-table club where he won't be expected to meet the same standard.

Let's not fool ourselves here. If Shaw does leave us for another PL team it will be a top 6 side.

EDIT: Apologies, see the context of the post now.

Trigger

My thoughts are, after reading the quotes from the coach, that Shaw doesn’t like hard work and doesn’t apply himself 100% every day, “he just goes through the motions”.

I think Stu has it spot on a couple of post up.. Jose can see the player in there but Luke is slacking, he has already tried the bigging him up and that didn’t work

dave_o_brien

astradave wrote: »

What has mental health got to do it it? Go on.. elaborate.. tell us how Luck Shaw could/is suffer(ing) from a mental health issue.. give us your knowledge of this, without the need for a link dump and quotes from others.. give us your opinion, not someone else’s..

I think an awful lot of what bangkok posts here is rubbish (apologies bangkok; I just seem to find myself disagreeing with you, frequently, and often find your assertions outrageous given their lack of basis), but if people don't appreciate that individuals respond to stresses, pressures and challenges in different ways, and that some need their confidence levels managed, then they are out of touch.

Mental health is a pretty broad umbrella. Bangkok has not (yet!) asserted that Shaw is suffering from depression or anxiety or anything like that; he is saying that IF he is a personality type that would not respond well to being publicly challenged, then Mou is the wrong manager for him.

I can't see what is controversial about this.

pjohnson

Adamocovic wrote: »

Let's not fool ourselves here. If Shaw does leave us for another PL team it will be a top 6 side.

If its a mental health issue (per Bangkok) he can't play at this level. I also think he wouldn't displace Alonso (Chelsea), Robertson (Liverpool), Davies (Spurs) or Mendy (City), maybe Kolasinac (Arsenal) but thats only because Wenger seems to dislike Kolasinac and has weirdly played Maitland-Niles there?

I doubt his next move will see him remain a back up surely he'll want to start at his next club?

EDIT: Whoops didn't see you're edit lol.

Trigger

dave_o_brien wrote: »

I think an awful lot of what bangkok posts here is rubbish (apologies bangkok; I just seem to find myself disagreeing with you, frequently, and often find your assertions outrageous given their lack of basis), but if people don't appreciate that individuals respond to stresses, pressures and challenges in different ways, and that some need their confidence levels managed, then they are out of touch.

Mental health is a pretty broad umbrella. Bangkok has not (yet!) asserted that Shaw is suffering from depression or anxiety or anything like that; he is saying that IF he is a personality type that would not respond well to being publicly challenged, then Mou is the wrong manager for him.

I can't see what is controversial about this.

I very well know all of the above as I worked in the profession and I have been on the spectrum myself. But you cannot, you cannot come in and say “ you should research mental health” without backing up what you are saying or elaborating in that issue.. that’s the problem here.. he is basically dumping a sentence in there with nothing whatsoever to back it up/elaborate on it

pjohnson

dave_o_brien wrote: »

I think an awful lot of what bangkok posts here is rubbish (apologies bangkok; I just seem to find myself disagreeing with you, frequently, and often find your assertions outrageous given their lack of basis), but if people don't appreciate that individuals respond to stresses, pressures and challenges in different ways, and that some need their confidence levels managed, then they are out of touch.

Mental health is a pretty broad umbrella. Bangkok has not (yet!) asserted that Shaw is suffering from depression or anxiety or anything like that; he is saying that IF he is a personality type that would not respond well to being publicly challenged, then Mou is the wrong manager for him.

I can't see what is controversial about this.

Then its nothing to do with Mou. That personality type simply won't last at a top club. Even if the manager stands by you the media will attack you at this level. Look at Mignolet, Klopp kept supporting him but the media kept at him and he couldn't stop making mistakes. Hell you could throw in Lovren and the support he has gotten and it hasn't improved the situation.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

Wrong person to start that **** with.

I'm well aware of what mental health issues can do to a person and their work. I also am aware that if Shaw has genuine mental health issues, the club would fund all the help he needs to help him out.

But the reality is now that Shaw is a player who refuses to work hard for a string of managers, and now you're that desperate to slate Jose for it, you're trying to play the mental health card which, to be blunt, is massively offensive in my opinion.

I cant imagine one single person happy at getting slated in public. Imagine getting called out by your boss in front of the whole office.

He may have a fragile state of mind, reacts differently to outbursts from the manager.

Eric Cantona famously never got called out by the manager even after attacking fan at palace. Fergie knew it wouldnt work with him and he would react badly. Someone like rooney would take it on the chin and fight back and fergie would get a reaction from him.

Shaws age and or salary has nothing to do with his state of mind. If as it has been said shaw doesnt react well to outbursts from the manager then that is poor man management

Mitch Connor

pjohnson wrote: »

Then its nothing to do with Mou. That personality type simply won't last at a top club. Even if the manager stands by you the media will attack you at this level. Look at Mignolet, Klopp kept supporting him but the media kept at him and he couldn't stop making mistakes. Hell you could throw in Lovren and the support he has gotten and it hasn't improved the situation.

Criticising Shaw publicly hasn't solved any issues either though - so why keep doing it?

Jose is obviously gonna try get rid of him the summer, so just go do that. No need to keep hammering him in public.

yourdeadwright

Sorry lads I got a bit of stick for saying "pretending to be still a big club " I guess it was poorly worded,  United are obviously a huge club can't really have an argument against that without being wrong ,
I meant the throwing of cash to make up for not being as successful as they once where, it was not a hidden pop, As a Liverpool fan I can hardly accuse United (who have wOn far more in most poster here lifetime) of being a small club , No hidden digs just poor wording,

Adamocovic

I know people are divided about Mourinhos man management at the moment. Read an article today from MEN regarding it. I know many will hate it, and don't rate MEN but I agree with a lot of it, and found it interesting.

Manchester United manager Jose Mourinho is taking a dangerous gamble
Jose Mourinho's attacks on his players are becoming almost as frequent as Manchester United 's underwhelming displays. And there is a danger they could be just a damaging.

The Old Trafford manager chose to react to his team's passage into the final four of the FA Cup with another withering public assessment of his personnel. It was a less-than-thrilling Old Trafford spectacle, just days after their embarrassingly limp departure from the Champions League at the hands of Sevilla.

And if some of Mourinho 's comments are as transparent as they are diversionary, others run the risk of backfiring on him and United. The days when Sir Alex Ferguson kept his criticisms - no doubt just as caustic - inside the Old Trafford dressing room are gone. Mourinho prefers, often, to do it publicly.

Some United players were 'scared' against Brighton, according to their manager. Luke Shaw's performance was, not for the first time, coldly - some might say needlessly - taken apart for the benefit of a TV interviewer and the watching world.

“I decide Luke because at least Antonio defensively was capable of some good positionings like in one of their more dangerous movements in the second-half where Locadia made a diagonal run inside behind Eric Bailly, and Antonio is still capable like this. And Luke every time they went in his corridor the cross was coming and the dangerous situation was coming, so I was not happy with the performance.” No arm round the shoulder, no private encouragement, just a pointed kick up the backside.

Mourinho has every right to question his players and demand more - especially at the moment. But his way of doing it seems increasingly unbending and one-dimensional. And it may not work. The Portuguese is honest - perhaps too honest - and the idea of a 'horses for courses', approach appears to hold little water for him.

"The strong ones will always be the strong ones, the young ones under pressure and the criticism improve or don’t improve,” he said in explaining his methods.

Many frustrated Reds would go along with that. Why should he mollycoddle millionaire babies if they can't hack it? He wants more like Nemanja Matic, Marcus Rashford, Romelu Lukaku - grafters who don't moan, don't sulk and don't need an arm around the shoulder.

But that is a luxury he doesn't appear to have if his complaints about his squad are to be believed. And there is another way. A way which is working sweetly a few miles away at the Etihad.

Pep Guardiola is no less driven or demanding, but the way he goes about managing his players is starting to bring success. The Catalan has taken good players and made them better - see Raheem Sterling and Nicolas Otamendi.

And, perhaps even more impressively, he has encouraged great players like Kevin de Bruyne, David Silva and Sergio Aguero - to find new levels of excellence.

Despite his grumbles, Mourinho's squad isn't exactly devoid of quality - and it should be noted that he has added seven expensively-acquired names to it, one of which, Henrikh Mkhitaryan, has already been ditched.

If Mourinho couldn't find a way to bring the best out of him or encourage Shaw - potentially world class in the eyes of many - to shine, how will the conundrum of Paul Pogba's form be solved? Or Alexis Sanchez's? Buck up or clear off?

Mourinho thrives on the tension he generates and he has united squads - at Porto, Chelsea, Inter Milan and Real Madrid - behind his leadership to spectacularly successful effect.

The trouble is United aren't spectacular or particularly successful at the moment and an aggressive, critical coach is a lot easier for players cope with when they are winning. And those methods haven't always brought unquestioning loyalty from his players - or success.

United fans must hope that they have got the Mourinho of his Chelsea title-winning years, rather than the one of his sorry Stamford Bridge demise.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-utd-fixtures-mourinho-gamble-14427547

I know the above is obviously more for those who have their concerns about José recently, and a lot will disagree completely with it, but so is the way of football and forums.

Adamocovic

Also, don't always agree with Scholes but regarding Shaw I do find myself agreeing with him.
He said after the game Saturday:

"I still believe he could be the best in the world and in the summer he could go to Tottenham or somewhere and he could improve. I couldn't see a difference between him and Young.

I think sometimes, managers get in their head that there's a player not for them. For me I think he could be brilliant but his manager will still find something wrong with him. It is disappointing because when Luke Shaw came you thought what a player that is and he could be the best.

It's a relationship that come the summer will end."

Lord TSC

Rojo: "We were in Dubai - I was calmly sitting in a chair watching a film when Jose Mourinho came up and gave me a tap on the shoulder. He told me 'We're going to sign Alexis. I don't want you smashing him up in training tomorrow'. He burst out laughing."

Cantona's Collars

Adamocovic wrote: »

Also, don't always agree with Scholes but regarding Shaw I do find myself agreeing with him.
He said after the game Saturday:

Shaw's problem is attitude,did you read what his coach at Southampton said about him. He's a difficult character. There comes a point where you cut your losses. He's a big boy now and not a child who needs special treatment.
Football is a job and I've seen characters like that and they don't last long in any job.

Adamocovic

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Shaw's problem is attitude,did you read what his coach at Southampton said about him. He's a difficult character. There comes a point where you cut your losses. He's a big boy now and not a child who needs special treatment.
Football is a job and I've seen characters like that and they don't last long in any job.

As I've stated before, if it's a case of him having a difficult character and José wanting to sell him in the summer, I've no issue. However how José has gone about it is what annoys me.

Yes it may be frustrating/infuriating if he doesn't give you his all day-to-day, and wastes his potential, but to continually single him out in your interviews with the media is not needed in my mind. It's clear at this point he hasn't been doing this to get a reaction from Luke, and if he has it has not worked at all.

I'm sure Luke has friends in the squad who wouldn't be overly thrilled about how José has singled him out in the media, after refusing to single players out previously. Like I said, if José wants him sold that's his decision, but I don't see how anyone can argue that he's managed this situation greatly.

Trigger

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Criticising Shaw publicly hasn't solved any issues either though - so why keep doing it?

Jose is obviously gonna try get rid of him the summer, so just go do that. No need to keep hammering him in public.

I think it worked in a way, when he was criticised previously there was loads of reports going around that he was going to knuckle down and put in the work(should he not have been putting in the work before this?)

Then He has a run of games and Jose is bigging him up like crazy. Then all of a sudden he is out of the team again and only making sporadic appearances on the bench.. so something must have happened after Jose bigged him up.. did he think the bigging up was a point where he could say, right I’m in the team now, I can revert to previous levels I don’t need to exert myself now?

No one really knows what went on behind the scenes. But even the quotes there yesterday from his old coach say that he can slack off and just go through the motions, we all know that Jose demands 110% everyday.

Trigger

Adamocovic wrote: »

Also, don't always agree with Scholes but regarding Shaw I do find myself agreeing with him.
He said after the game Saturday:

You agree that you didn’t see much difference between shaw and young on Saturday? I thought the difference was night and day both defensively and attack wise.. sure as the match was going on many people said the same thing, Young added an extra dimension that was lacking on the left side

hufpc8w3adnk65

Lord TSC wrote: »

Rojo: "We were in Dubai - I was calmly sitting in a chair watching a film when Jose Mourinho came up and gave me a tap on the shoulder. He told me 'We're going to sign Alexis. I don't want you smashing him up in training tomorrow'. He burst out laughing."

Ha ha ha brilliant

duffman13

People jumping on Bangkok's comments are being a bit trigger happy. None of us know the ins and outs of any job nevermind what happens in a football club. You've a guy in the limelight who has had a difficult few years, mixed signals recently from a coaching perspective and a potential career threatening injury he has had to recover from. On top of this his mentality is being questioned publicly along with his intelligence.

To think they haven't had some mental toll on a 22 year old man is naive at best. We don't know if he's a suffering from a mental health issue but i can say there isn't a person in the world with the head not to be somehow affected by what he's been through.

People saying if he hasn't got the head for it then he shouldn't be at United is not on IMO. Players need different approaches and tbh I hand on heart cannot see what the hell Shaw did against Brighton that warranted all this being kicked up again. I hope the guy is completely fine and oblivious to what's happening around him but i dont buy that personally

Adamocovic

astradave wrote: »

You agree that you didn’t see much difference between shaw and young on Saturday? I thought the difference was night and day both defensively and attack wise.. sure as the match was going on many people said the same thing, Young added an extra dimension that was lacking on the left side

That is a small nugget of what he said. I agree Young did bring something extra, but also didn't think Shaw played as horrendously as Mourinho seems to have thought. I've seen other players get away with way worse performances under José.

What I agree with him on is that at times managers will have a problem with a player, make their mind up, and then that opinion will be lasting. I agree that he has the potential to move and improve under a different manager. I also agree that it's been a disappointment considering the promise of Shaw, and that it will no doubt be the end of their relationship this summer.

So yes, overall I do agree with Scholes, despite not fully agreeing with one sentence of his statement. Do you disagree with everything he said? Or just the bit regarding his performance in comparison to Youngs?

Liam McPoyle

As someone that is familiar with mental health issues and how it can effect the working life, if Shaw is suffering from anything genuine, something that has gone as far as affecting how he plays, then he shouldn't be next nor near a football field.

However making assertions that he is suffering from something with absolutely nothing to back it up is just downright ridiculous and is purely and simply trying to create a stick to beat the manager with.

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

His man management of shaw has been awful.

If as one of his previous coaches has said, shaw needs an arm around the shoulder, he is playing for the wrong manager. Mourinhos man management skills are probably one of his worst attributes

A. You have no idea whether or not his man management of Shaw has been awful.

B. He has plenty of former players, top professionals with many accolades to their names laud his man management as being one of his best assets.

C. One of his previous coaches said much more than Shaw needs and arm around the shoulder. Stop trying to pretend its that simple.

Trigger

Jose was asked why he substituted Shaw at half time. “Luke in the first half – every time they come in his corridor, the cross was coming and a dangerous situation was coming so I was not happy with his performance.”

Its not exactly bullying him is it.. he didn’t even say he was “horrendous” he said he was disappointed with his performance

ericzeking

Lord TSC wrote: »

IF someone is 22 and getting 100k a week, and are given the chance to be involved with one of the biggest football clubs in the world, and still needs "an arm around the shoulder" for motivate, they really need to cop on to themselves and grow the hell up....

Because everyone's personality is the same, right?

People are motivated in different ways. You have 25 five different personalities in the first team dressing room.

I wonder how David De Gea would have faired out with us if Mourinho was the manager then....he'd have long been shipped back to Spain...

I agree with the thought that Shaw has never been so obviously bad to warrant these public, individualised dressing downs. Mourinho is picking on the guy, humiliating the guy, for whatever reason, it's certainly no first team performance related reason.

StringerBell

astradave wrote: »

Jose was asked why he substituted Shaw at half time. “Luke in the first half – every time they come in his corridor, the cross was coming and a dangerous situation was coming so I was not happy with his performance.”

Its not exactly bullying him is it.. he didn’t even say he was “horrendous” he said he was disappointed with his performance

He also said Valencia was poor but that as he was doing slightly better defensively, its why he choose Luke to come off instead of him.

Adamocovic

This started from people reaction to bangkok's comments. He didn't suggest Shaw had a mental illness, not from my interpretation of it anyway. He used the words "mental health" in his comment. Something that is rather broad and contains many definitions, and I understand peoples reactions but think a lot may have misinterpreted the point.

I assumed he was referring Shaws ability to adversary in relation to criticism, and how he feels José man management style doesn't suit Shaw. He had mentioned previously about how other coaches said he's the type of player who needs an arm around him rather than be publicly criticised. It may affect his confidence levels negatively and hence his performance.

I'm sure it's the same for everyone in their line of work, there are different management styles used for different people. Know your audience and all that.

So like I said, think people are getting caught up with the comment just because it included the words "mental health", unless I've overlooked a comment I didn't see him come out and say anything about Shaw having a mental illness.

StringerBell

ericzeking wrote: »

Because everyone's personality is the same, right?

People are motivated in different ways. You have 25 five different personalities in the first team dressing room.

I wonder how David De Gea would have faired out with us if Mourinho was the manager then....he'd have long been shipped back to Spain...

I agree with the thought that Shaw has never been so obviously bad to warrant these public, individualised dressing downs. Mourinho is picking on the guy, humiliating the guy, for whatever reason, it's certainly no first team performance related reason.

This hysterical reaction is simply that, hysterical.

He has not humiliated him, nor picked on him. He doesn't get individual dressing downs, Mourinho is answering questions. These things don't happen in a vacuum. Asked question, gives answer. Media and others pick out certain lines and use them as a stick to beat the manager.

Its tired, its transparent and when you get the likes of this post i.e Shaw being "humiliated" when obviously he has not been humiliated or singled out even (there were plenty of players criticised) its simple hysteria.

Oh, and the notion that Fergie would always be able to get the best out of players whatever the situation called for is just that, a notion. Particularly the ones not up to it at top level.

AND this is before you even get into the realm of comparing probably the greatest ever man manager of all time to anybody else being foolish.

Adamocovic

astradave wrote: »

Its not exactly bullying him is it.. he didn’t even say he was “horrendous” he said he was disappointed with his performance

Hopefully you're right Dave and that the group of us unhappy with it are just overreacting. It's not that long ago José said Shaw could be one of the best LB in the league.

The comments in themselves weren't scathing, but they just add to a growing list of Josés comments in the media where he has been critical of Shaw. Obviously not as bad as when he publicly criticised Shaws work ethic during trainings, as compared to others, when discussing him being benched, or when Shaw had a great game and he attributed down to himself, as his mind using Shaws body because Shaw was within shouting distance of him.

For some of us we'd rather those conversations took place away from the public eye. Anyway, I'm hopefully Shaw will play well when given his next chance and that he will remain with us for next season.

TheDoc

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Sanchez just looks to be trying too hard...he will come good.

Can I do what you do with Pogba? Pickup on his appearance, behaviour, his cost and wages and his form, and write him off as likely not going to be good enough?

TheDoc

Business Cat wrote: »

As someone that is familiar with mental health issues and how it can effect the working life, if Shaw is suffering from anything genuine, something that has gone as far as affecting how he plays, then he shouldn't be next nor near a football field.

However making assertions that he is suffering from something with absolutely nothing to back it up is just downright ridiculous and is purely and simply trying to create a stick to beat the manager with.

I think its becoming more obvious to me that Shaw will go to Spurs in a part exchange deal for Rose where like Shaw will quickly regain his confidence and form and making a laughing stock out of Mourinho and we get left with an expensive left back who had one good season and is 27.

It's becoming that obvious a conclusion and its laughable