Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

adox

TheDoc wrote: »

Case in point, so much focus was on Pogba, not our LB who went walkabout, our RB not tracking a runner and our Cb's just vanishing?

Also Pogba is weird watching him run. Had some reaction to you, why isn't he sprinting. Then later in the game he cruised passed I think Dembele or someone and again didnt look like he was sprinting but was just pulling away from the Spurs players.

Just a weird thing I keep spotting, he always just looks like hes jogging, but breezes past people at times full sprinting

He mentioned Young Pogba and Smalling when discussinf the goal. Questioned all three. Got an answer on Smalling that made sense from Deaddonkey and then the reply from Bangkok claiming that Pogba was running as fast as he could which seems a bit silly to me.

adox

pjohnson wrote: »

Bangkok while trying to defend Pogba is actually selling Pogba ridiculously short. The lad can certainly move far far quicker than he did there.


I havent seen anyone blame Pogba outright. Its unanimously where the hell had Young gone? People are just commenting Pogba could have tried a bit more to get back.

The thing is, that incident just highlights the issues that Pogba can cause the team. He’s a midfielder, even playing in a three. He lets players run off him all the time and doesn’t try at times defensively. You just can’t have that in a team without causing huge confusion. The midfield three tries to compensate for his defensive laziness. And that’s what it is imo. Physical and mental laziness.

S.M.B.

bangkok wrote: »

he has had an excellent loan spell. 24 appearances all while the manager who originally wanted him got sacked. A motm display against man city when he kept one of the best players in the league sane quiet

1 minute in the last 7 games is not ideal for someone we think is going to step up to be a viable option next year. He'd actually have gotten more minutes at United had he come back after losing his place to Wan-Bissaka off the back of that very impressive performance against us.

jayo26

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ya but many of them starts came before Sanchez joined, any which way I dont think we will have enough games next season for them all. I'm just not sure I want to see Martial sold yet

I would hate to see martial sold also but as I said before the only way is sacrifice him is if we got a genuine right sided player other then that I'd be keeping our attacking options as is.

bangkok

adox wrote: »

The thing is, that incident just highlights the issues that Pogba can cause the team. He’s a midfielder, even playing in a three. He lets players run off him all the time and doesn’t try at times defensively. You just can’t have that in a team without causing huge confusion. The midfield three tries to compensate for his defensive laziness. And that’s what it is imo. Physical and mental laziness.

he was in the perfect position only for youngs mad run to tackle trippier, dont know what he was thinking, if anything jones should have been across quicker but wouldnt really blame him, goal was 100% on young

pjohnson

adox wrote: »

The thing is, that incident just highlights the issues that Pogba can cause the team. He’s a midfielder, even playing in a three. He lets players run off him all the time and doesn’t try at times defensively. You just can’t have that in a team without causing huge confusion. The midfield three tries to compensate for his defensive laziness. And that’s what it is imo. Physical and mental laziness.

Thats why I think its abundantly clear Arturo Vidal was the key midfielder in that Juve side.

bangkok

S.M.B. wrote: »

1 minute in the last 7 games is not ideal for someone we think is going to step up to be a viable option next year. He'd actually have gotten more minutes at United had he come back after losing his place to Wan-Bissaka off the back of that very impressive performance against us.

you need to look at the season as a whole, 24 games is excellent and especially in the premier league.

united would have seen how he did against Sane as well and would have been extremely impressed. he will get his chance next season imo

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

he was in the perfect position only for youngs mad run to tackle trippier, dont know what he was thinking, if anything jones should have been across quicker but wouldnt really blame him, goal was 100% on young

No way. Pogba sees young go forward and is beside Erikison its his man, he somehow manages to get further up the field then Eriksion when the ball is about to be played when he should have been tight behind him or level with him tracking his run

jayo26

jayo26 wrote: »

I would hate to see martial sold also but as I said before the only way is sacrifice him is if we got a genuine right sided player other then that I'd be keeping our attacking options as is.

I'd imagine an attacking right sided player is high on our list as it stands unless we are getting one from a club that wants Marital he should be separate from the deal as we shouldn't need money from his sale to finance it.

RobbingBandit

We need to rebuild the youth set up too it's crazy to think the standard of players that have come up from the youth system in the past and now the u23 team has been relegated so even if some of the on loan players were to come back next season that is as good a place as any for them to ply their trade get things going again there we need to go back to having a great youth set up to have players to call up to the senior squad, it's definitely served us well in the past.

bangkok

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd imagine an attacking right sided player is high on our list as it stands unless we are getting one from a club that wants Marital he should be separate from the deal as we shouldn't need money from his sale to finance it.

if we going down the 433 route, with matic, herrera and pogba in the middle, i actually dont think we need a right winger. the front 3 will be occupied by 3 of lukaku sanchez martial rashford lingard mata

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

if we going down the 433 route, with matic, herrera and pogba in the middle, i actually dont think we need a right winger. the front 3 will be occupied by 3 of lukaku sanchez martial rashford lingard mata

I'd be very surprised if we dont sign a left footed attacking player with a bit of pace in the summer

bangkok

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if we dont sign a left footed attacking player with a bit of pace in the summer

to play on right or left?

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

to play on right or left?

Right mainly

bangkok

Deleted User wrote: »

Right mainly

still going to have to cut inside then to cross... would love to see us sign mahrez although i think he will end up at city

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

still going to have to cut inside then to cross... would love to see us sign mahrez although i think he will end up at city

Also think we should sign A rb who can cross a ball to some standard, any which way we play I think we need the added dimension of a pacy left footed attacking player and a left footed left back.

bangkok

Deleted User wrote: »

Also think we should sign A rb who can cross a ball to some standard, any which way we play I think we need the added dimension of a pacy left footed attacking player and a left footed left back.

gareth bale is obvious choice and is available this summer, but i think he is too injury prone for the price he would cost

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

gareth bale is obvious choice and is available this summer, but i think he is too injury prone for the price he would cost

Ya I actually wouldnt mind Marhez like you said would love old bale but probably too big a gamble when we are still re-building.

Kalel

Maybe I'm alone in thinking this but I actually don't want Pogba defending, we have 2 other defensive minded midfielders for that and 4 at the back, that's 6 players covering,leave Pogba to do what he does best, go forward.isn't that why we play 3 in the middle in the first place to let him have that freedom. There was a few players who should have done better for the goal, players who's main job is defensive, I think they should carry the blame more than Pogba. Oh and I still think he has been crap going forward at times and I have slated him for that just don't think he should be held accountable for that goal.

DM_7

Kalel wrote: »

Maybe I'm alone in thinking this but I actually don't want Pogba defending, we have 2 other defensive minded midfielders for that and 4 at the back, that's 6 players covering,leave Pogba to do what he does best, go forward.isn't that why we play 3 in the middle in the first place to let him have that freedom. There was a few players who should have done better for the goal, players who's main job is defensive, I think they should carry the blame more than Pogba. Oh and I still think he has been crap going forward at times and I have slated him for that just don't think he should be held accountable for that goal.

Quality teams don't defend with 6 players only.

Trigger

DM_7 wrote: »

Quality teams don't defend with 6 players only.

Yep, they should be attacking and defending as a unit, even the likes of Salah, Erikson, David Silva, Sanchez all put in a defensive shift every game

yabadabado

RobbingBandit wrote: »

We need to rebuild the youth set up too it's crazy to think the standard of players that have come up from the youth system in the past and now the u23 team has been relegated so even if some of the on loan players were to come back next season that is as good a place as any for them to ply their trade get things going again there we need to go back to having a great youth set up to have players to call up to the senior squad, it's definitely served us well in the past.

Isn't there already a fairly substantial rebuild of the youth set up?
The U23 team would be seen as the least important of the teams afaik.
United could actually put out a very good U23 team but it makes more sense to send lads on loan you are then left with lads who aren't involved in senior side, lads needed to regain fitness and very young lads stepping up in grade.

I wouldn't really be hugely concerned about the U23 team getting relegated. It might be slightly embarrassing but I think Butt already has said they aren't a fan of league.

Whatsisname

U18s just won the league as well, few promising players like Chong, O’Connor and Gomes.

Lithium93_

17 years ago today, Ruud Van Nistelrooy signed for United for a then record British transfer fee of £19 million.

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/988438389191008257

#OnThisDay in 2001, Ruud van Nistelrooy signed for Manchester United for a British record transfer fee of £19m.

One of the greatest strikers of all time | @RvN1776 ���� #mufc

jayo26

I agree in regards the u23 it can be seriously warped because if you have a successful u23 squad it means your 20 year olds are not playing enough first team football or of its really bad it means you have the likes of mctominay or Rashford and so on on around the first teams.

Our u23s is full of players like chong that are only 17 or 18 years of age they are getting experience playing against other fringe players and then when they get to 19 or 20 they are on loan or training with the first team.

It's not great to have them relegated yes but it's not the end of the world it doesn't show a true reflection of the youth setup.

Mitch Connor

Kalel wrote: »

Maybe I'm alone in thinking this but I actually don't want Pogba defending, we have 2 other defensive minded midfielders for that and 4 at the back, that's 6 players covering,leave Pogba to do what he does best, go forward.isn't that why we play 3 in the middle in the first place to let him have that freedom. There was a few players who should have done better for the goal, players who's main job is defensive, I think they should carry the blame more than Pogba. Oh and I still think he has been crap going forward at times and I have slated him for that just don't think he should be held accountable for that goal.

In general I don't want Pogba to be focused on defending - but when he places himself in a defensive position and takes responsibility for a player, he needs to stick with it until the attack is over or he properly passes the attacker on to the next defender.

No player, regardless of their position or general instructions, should look to take a defensive role and then just not do it. A defender will see the attacker being marked and could make a decision based on that - if the attacking player then just doesn't track the attacker they may simply just run free.

If, for some reason, it was Lukaku that was on Erikson at that point and let him go in the way I feel Pogba did, I would be just as annoyed.

I'm not looking to blame Pogba for that goal. Young went out of position, the other defenders didn't help much more in terms of getting back - there is plenty of blame to go around - i just saw it as one of two examples (that I could think of from yesterday) where I felt Pogba didn't defend well, given the position he had put himself in.

The kinda funny thing is if Pogba had been in a more attacking position, as many would like, at that time and no where near being able to do anything about it I don't think anyone would point a finger at him for being 'out of position' or anything like that. The issue, for me at least, is that once he was in the defensive position and on Erikson, he did very poorly in defending that situation.

Adamocovic

Kirby wrote: »

That's rubbish man and you know it. If Pogba had scored 20 goals in the league from midfield like say, Lampard used to..... nobody would be criticising him. And the odd nutbag who would dare to would be laughed out of the thread. If he was dominating the midfield like say, Keane used to....the same thing. He'd be getting near universal praise. Like say De Bruyne or Salah. Or Kane.

The fact is, he isn't doing those things so he is going to get criticism.

When De Gea makes a mistake (and he's made several this season) nobody bats an eyelid. Because the other 95% of the time he's excellent. Harry Kane was awful last week and nobody said anything because he's been scoring goals all season.

To claim Pogba will get stick "No matter how well he does" is batsh*t crazy. He's getting it because he has put in some terrible performances. He's getting it because even in the games he plays really well in, his weaknesses and laziness are still prevalent.

He's getting it because its there. The price tag has nothing to do with his performances. Do you think people talk about Messi's 40 million a year when he has a bad game? Do they f*ck.

Well I do believe Pogba is the sort of player who will draw criticism from some ends no matter his performance, you can disagree but I hate when people say "and you know it" after making their point. Clearly I don't agree with you, it's not that hard to believe.

With the expectations surrounding Pogba, brought on by a combination of his ability, his enormous price-tag, and reputation, coupled with his attitude and playing style I believe he is one of those players that will draw criticism from some corners no matter where they go or how they play.

As was touched on earlier a lot of people don't even know what to be expecting from him. People are still debating what role he should be playing, just opening him up for more criticism based on unreal expectations. Even football aside his off the field draws criticism, from his social media, to his haircut, even his history how he was with us and left on a free for us to break the bank for him.

Lampard was still getting criticism by the English Media in 2006 for lackluster displays, even when netting 20+ goals that season. Also on Harry Kane, there were plenty complaining that he was a passenger the other game. But I as I highlighted above I think there are more reasons why Pogba would draw it from some irregardless of his performances. Hell even Ronaldo get's his fair share of stick and he has been unbelievable. You can argue that for the most part these criticisms come from the rival fans and media, but some fans who weren't sold on him will jump on that too. We've had many players that some fans have disliked and waited for that perfect opportunity to jump on them, I've been guilty of this in the past too.

Listen, you can disagree with me all you want, but calling my opinion rubbish and bat**** crazy I find a tad overboard. As much as you disagree there is reasoning behind my opinion.

Mitch Connor

yabadabado wrote: »

Isn't there already a fairly substantial rebuild of the youth set up?
The U23 team would be seen as the least important of the teams afaik.
United could actually put out a very good U23 team but it makes more sense to send lads on loan you are then left with lads who aren't involved in senior side, lads needed to regain fitness and very young lads stepping up in grade.

I wouldn't really be hugely concerned about the U23 team getting relegated. It might be slightly embarrassing but I think Butt already has said they aren't a fan of league.

indeed, we have.

U18 have won their league in impressive style, for example.

The U23 side may be a little further away from seeing the benefit of the changes at youth level.

However, from reading the tweets of those whom I know follow the youth sides properly, the U23 side has been a mess this season, beyond any issue with the quality of the players. The tactics, formation and player usage from Sbraiga (or however it is spelled) has been heavily criticised all season.

bangkok

Lithium93_ wrote: »

17 years ago today, Ruud Van Nistelrooy signed for United for a then record British transfer fee of £19 million.

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/988438389191008257

What a player he was. Pure class

IamtheWalrus

Lithium93_ wrote: »

17 years ago today, Ruud Van Nistelrooy signed for United for a then record British transfer fee of £19 million.

The day of that type of forward seems to be over. What a signing. Was so sad when the transfer fell through the first time but elated it happened again.

Lithium93_

bangkok wrote: »

What a player he was. Pure class

Have you no other word in your vocabulary to describe players? :P

bangkok

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Have you no other word in your vocabulary to describe players? :P

No

bangkok

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

The day of that type of forward seems to be over. What a signing. Was so sad when the transfer fell through the first time but elated it happened again.

Why you think that? Van nistelrooy would be CLASS in any era

Andrew Beef

The scream from Van Nistelrooy when his knee gave out was horrific. It was great to see him come back. What a player. Thrown to the wolves somewhat because of his personal clashes with Ronaldo but c’est la vie.

Pogba hasn’t earned the right to neglect his defensive duties.

brinty

brinty wrote:

I'm having Steak for dinner...

Should i have chips or spuds or go all posh and have the garlic spuds lads

Steak was savage lads..
Well fair play ms Brinty

brinty

brinty wrote: »

Steak was savage lads..
Well fair play ms Brinty

Photos or GTFO.


Of course I'm talking about the steak

brinty

Deleted User wrote:

Photos or GTFO.

Of course I'm talking about the steak

I know that's not true..
And the steak was too good for photos

IamtheWalrus

bangkok wrote: »

Why you think that? Van nistelrooy would be CLASS in any era

I never said he wouldn't be. I was saying that I don't know of any striker today as prolific at taking chances as Ruud was.

Mitch Connor

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

I never said he wouldn't be. I was saying that I don't know of any striker today as prolific at taking chances as Ruud was.

kane, imo.
ronaldo.
messi.
salah.
aguero.

bangkok

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

I never said he wouldn't be. I was saying that I don't know of any striker today as prolific at taking chances as Ruud was.

Ronaldo is the most clinical goalscorer in the history of the game

Adamocovic

bangkok wrote: »

What a player he was. Pure class

Netflix have a short series where each episode looks briefly at a PL legend.
Watched the Van Nistlerooy one the other day. He acknowledges he should have done things differently and has made up with Fergie but it still hurt when he talked about how he had planned on seeing out his career with us until it all fell apart. What a player he was for us.

nicklauski

Lithium93_ wrote: »

17 years ago today, Ruud Van Nistelrooy signed for United for a then record British transfer fee of £19 million.

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/988438389191008257

Netflix has the premier league legends series on it now. Episode 4 is Ruud. Watched it earlier. My god, that man could finish. Incredible.

Jaysus my memory is bad what was the falling out with about agian?

pjohnson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Jaysus my memory is bad what was the falling out with about agian?

I thought he stormed out after finding Saha was starting the LC Final, Saha was red hot at the time.

IamtheWalrus

bangkok wrote: »

Ronaldo is the most clinical goalscorer in the history of the game

More of a winger. So is Messi.

Kane and Salah in Ruud's league? rofl

Anyone else listen to the Michael Owen interview on OTB tonight? It was a good listen, would recommend.

Ruud was a beast

I remember all the crap he got from rivals for not scoring hardly any outside the box

Piss off, he was a phenomenal striker

nicklauski

pjohnson wrote: »

I thought he stormed out after finding Saha was starting the LC Final, Saha was red hot at the time.

There was a few things.

The fight with Ronaldo, being dropped for the LC Final, and then not making the squad for the last game of the season.

The Ronaldo fight was probably the main cause, Fergie could see the potential he and Rooney had, and made the decision to move Ruud on to keep everyone else happy.

bangkok

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

More of a winger. So is Messi.

Kane and Salah in Ruud's league? rofl

Ronaldo started out as a winger, developed into a forward and a lethal one at that. He scores goals that are not even half chances. 650 career goals and he didnt even play his entire career as a striker.

Mitch Connor

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

More of a winger. So is Messi.

Kane and Salah in Ruud's league? rofl

Kane has more goals (104 vs 95) in slightly less games (146 vs 150), playing for not as good a side. (spurs stats only)

Kane is as clinical as they come in football.

I would also say he is similar in forward play to ruud.

Salah has 41 goals this season. You do not score 41 goals without being utterly clinical. Maybe next season he regresses. Maybe he gets better. Right now, he is as ruthless in front of goal as you'd like!

Ruud was a great finisher, but i find if laughable to suggest the supreme goal scorers of today couldn't match up against him.