Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

Mitch Connor

Id also look at the way chelsea havae worked with their managers over the last 10 years.

How many have survived not winning the PL or not competing for it?

Do Chelsea managers get time to bed in young players through a transitional phase that results in relatively poor results? Or, do they need to be competing for the top trophies every year in order to stay employed?

I think there is less room for player development at Chelsea in general than at United, for example, as we have seen more or a willingness of the club to accept a transitional phase. People may point to Martial being kicked out, but at the same time McTominay has come into the side, Rashford has played more games for Jose than anyone else, Lingard (while not that young) has been given the chance to become a real key member of the squad.So while Martial may leave, Jose has shown morefaith in youth than Pep or Conte, for example.

Drumpot

jayo26 wrote: »

Ah I don't agree mate like he is performing at that level against decent players on champs league and premierleague the only thing different is next year it will be expected from him but I still think he will be capable of 30 goals a season.

Oh don’t get me wrong, I agree that he could have a good season next year. I just don’t think he’s a Ronaldo kind of player who would flourish wherever he goes.

His statistics this season are at those levels but I don’t think he’s necessarily at that level until we see this done in multiple seasons.

brinty

At Chelsea for every De Bruyne who they bought young and sold on there's an Andre Schurlee they bought and loaned out for years and sold on and who hasn't gotten up to the level the thought... for every Salah there's a Marko Marin... for Lukaku there's a Thorgan Hazard ...

Chelsea for the last 10-12 years bought a huge number of young players of promise and potential and sold them on to other teams when they didn't think they'd be at Chelsea's expected level of performance... They had something like 30 players out on loan last season. When De Bruyne, Salah and Lukaku were sold they went to mid tier clubs and performed at a level their talents were out. The fact they thrived at a new club and weren't sitting on Chelsea's bench helped. They earned themselves moves back to bigger clubs by delivering on the potential they had..

jayo26

Drumpot wrote: »

Oh don’t get me wrong, I agree that he could have a good season next year. I just don’t think he’s a Ronaldo kind of player who would flourish wherever he goes.

His statistics this season are at those levels but I don’t think he’s necessarily at that level until we see this done in multiple seasons.

Yeah agree with that he does need to go do it again to be regarded at that level.

Trigger

Hindsight is a fantastic thing.

Drumpot

finno wrote: »

Actually Liverpool were trying to sign Salah in 2014 but Chelsea came in and signed him instead

“But then I received a phone call from Mourinho and that changed everything. He explained the situation to me and told me that he needed me at Chelsea. That was one of the main reasons why I joined Chelsea.


“Mourinho told me that he thought I was a good player and that he wanted me to pick Chelsea.”

That actually shows how easy it was for Jose to convince players to join Chelsea. I bet he said that to every player thinking of joining Chelsea.

Player has a choice of joining Liverpool and prob starting or Chelsea under Jose.

Player: “Jose do you think I’m good?”
Jose: “Yeh yeh yeh, I think you are good.”
Player: “Hmm, Liverpool will start me and maybe even build a team around me. But Jose Mourinho, one of the best coaches in the world, thinks I’m good. Well , that’s good enough for me, Chelsea it is”.

As I said, Chelsea were stockpiling players for years and it made sense buying up loads of potential talent and loaning them out.

And also as I said, no top team were beating down Chelsea’s door for De Bruyne, lukaku or Salah so Jose wasn’t the only coach who didn’t think they were ready for the big time.

Lord TSC

Tbh, if we let go of Martial and then Jose leads us to a title win, like happened at Chelsea, I can forgive if Martial becomes a world beater down the line.

Jose is ruthless. He will do whats nessecary to put the team in the best position to win the league next year. And if that means this summer we lose Martial and go for a RW option instead, so be it.

bangkok

Blind and darmian will be sold this summer. Prob get 20m in total for both. Evans signing at 3m would be fantastic business. Premier league proven and has got better since he left utd

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

Tbh, if we let go of Martial and then Jose leads us to a title win, like happened at Chelsea, I can forgive if Martial becomes a world beater down the line.

Jose is ruthless. He will do whats nessecary to put the team in the best position to win the league next year. And if that means this summer we lose Martial and go for a RW option instead, so be it.

Need to look at long term as well. If jose sold a 22 year old martial and replaced him with a 30 year old winger, it only makes sense short term and he is only kicking the can down the road. Squad will be ageing one

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

Blind and darmian will be sold this summer. Prob get 20m in total for both. Evans signing at 3m would be fantastic business. Premier league proven and has got better since he left utd

Selling our 3rd choice full backs to sign a new 4th choice CB is not fantastic business. Its pointless.

Lord TSC

pjohnson wrote: »

Selling our 3rd choice full backs to sign a new 4th choice CB is not fantastic business. Its pointless.

Yeah, we shouldn't be looking for another back up. If we're looking for a new CB, it should be someone who will be a top level addition.

We have an overabundance of squad players, and need to cull them. I'd rather sell Darmian and Blind and say TFM has that potential to cover CB if needed, rather than spend 3m on Evans.

bangkok

pjohnson wrote: »

Selling our 3rd choice full backs to sign a new 4th choice CB is not fantastic business. Its pointless.

Evans can play both cb and lb. He will end up at city if we dont sign him

pjohnson

Drumpot wrote: »

That actually shows how easy it was for Jose to convince players to join Chelsea. I bet he said that to every player thinking of joining Chelsea.

Player has a choice of joining Liverpool and prob starting or Chelsea under Jose.

Player: “Jose do you think I’m good?”
Jose: “Yeh yeh yeh, I think you are good.”
Player: “Hmm, Liverpool will start me and maybe even build a team around me. But Jose Mourinho, one of the best coaches in the world, thinks I’m good. Well , that’s good enough for me, Chelsea it is”.

As I said, Chelsea were stockpiling players for years and it made sense buying up loads of potential talent and loaning them out.

And also as I said, no top team were beating down Chelsea’s door for De Bruyne, lukaku or Salah so Jose wasn’t the only coach who didn’t think they were ready for the big time.

21/22 year olds have potential. 25/26 year olds are fulfilling it. I dont remember anyone at that time demanding Jose drop Lampard/Oscar/Hazard/Willian/Schurrle in favour of De Bruyne/Salah. Dropping currently performing high level players for players who may fulfill potential 2 - 3 years later is daft as pineapple steak.

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

Evans can play both cb and lb. He will end up at city if we dont sign him

Probably to replace Stones who has played once since January. They need HG players. Thats the only reason he would be joining them. Its not to play.

finno

Drumpot wrote: »

That actually shows how easy it was for Jose to convince players to join Chelsea. I bet he said that to every player thinking of joining Chelsea.

Player has a choice of joining Liverpool and prob starting or Chelsea under Jose.

Player: “Jose do you think I’m good?”
Jose: “Yeh yeh yeh, I think you are good.”
Player: “Hmm, Liverpool will start me and maybe even build a team around me. But Jose Mourinho, one of the best coaches in the world, thinks I’m good. Well , that’s good enough for me, Chelsea it is”.

As I said, Chelsea were stockpiling players for years and it made sense buying up loads of potential talent and loaning them out.

And also as I said, no top team were beating down Chelsea’s door for De Bruyne, lukaku or Salah so Jose wasn’t the only coach who didn’t think they were ready for the big time.

Liverpool were lowballing Basel and wouldn't pay the money Basel wanted for Salah, Chelsea came in and the rest is history.

As for beating the door down maybe Mourinho wouldn't sell them to rivals in
the PL

Don't care now as it worked out great for Liverpool now.

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

Blind and darmian will be sold this summer. Prob get 20m in total for both. Evans signing at 3m would be fantastic business. Premier league proven and has got better since he left utd

So a left back and a right back will be sold... so we should buy a cheap centre back to add to Bailly, Lindelof, Jones, Smalling, Rojo and Fosu-Mensah.

paulbok

bangkok wrote: »

Evans can play both cb and lb. He will end up on citys bench if we dont sign him

Fyp. If City do sign him, it'll be for homegrown numbers nothing else.

Drumpot

finno wrote: »

Liverpool were lowballing Basel and wouldn't pay the money Basel wanted for Salah, Chelsea came in and the rest is history.

As for beating the door down maybe Mourinho wouldn't sell them to rivals in
the PL

Don't care now as it worked out great for Liverpool now.

Like the way he sold Mata, Chelsea’s multiple player of the season, to united who were the champions of England at that time?

Talisman

Drumpot wrote: »

I’m not saying he won’t do well next season but I’m not convinced he would perform at that level at a top club. Sort of like Torres who wasn’t putting up the same sort of statistics up when he went to a club with bigger aspirations.

One of the reasons that Torres was so lethal at Liverpool under Benitez was because the goalkeeping coach used to analyse and profile the opposition goalkeepers. Knowing how a keeper would position himself or were most likely to move in a situation helped his strike rate.

His stats went off a cliff after Martin Broughton fired Benitez and the coaching staff departed Liverpool.

pjohnson

Drumpot wrote: »

Like the way he sold Mata, Chelsea’s multiple player of the season, to united who were the champions of England at that time?

Iirc was that not Abramovic? Like when he let Cech join Arsenal?

Lord TSC

pjohnson wrote: »

Iirc was that not Abramovic? Like when he let Cech join Arsenal?

Point is, Chelsea will literally sell to anyone if the player wants to go there. They (Abramovic( don't seem to mind, and in fact (and quite admirably) will facilitate players moving wherever they want, provided a decent fee is provided. Cech, Mata, Matic, Lukaku.

finno

Drumpot wrote: »

Like the way he sold Mata, Chelsea’s multiple player of the season, to united who were the champions of England at that time?

Mourinho sated himself that he was not involved in that sale of Mata to Utd

pjohnson

Lord TSC wrote: »

Point is, Chelsea will literally sell to anyone if the player wants to go there. They (Abramovic( don't seem to mind, and in fact (and quite admirably) will facilitate players moving wherever they want, provided a decent fee is provided. Cech, Mata, Matic, Lukaku.

Yep. Also does show that signings/departures are not always up to the manager.

Will I Am Not

We’ll get second and win the FA Cup. Madrid will win the Champions League and we’ll have a nice peaceful Summer in here :pac:

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So a left back and a right back will be sold... so we should buy a cheap centre back to add to Bailly, Lindelof, Jones, Smalling, Rojo and Fosu-Mensah.

Bailly jones and rojo seem to be injured a lot.

Fosu mensah is a right back

For 3m you are buying a player who is probably better than smalling and is a decent passer of the ball

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

Bailly jones and rojo seem to be injured a lot.

Fosu mensah is a right back

For 3m you are buying a player who is probably better than smalling and is a decent passer of the ball

So then argue to buy him instead of a current CB we have. Your arguement of selling two full backs we have played for about 90minutes all season to then buy Evans makes no sense.

If we are going to look for an upgrade on Smalling, and I agree that we should, then i'll be majorly pissed if Evans is the player we go for. An upgrade.... maybe, arguably not, but at best he is nowhere near good enough to be doing that for.

We should be buying a top class CB, not a good PL lad like Evans, cause he is cheap.

Go for Alderwield, for example.

Trigger

finno wrote: »

Mourinho sated himself that he was not involved in that sale of Mata to Utd

He also wasn’t involved in the sale of Salah, he did loan him out. Maybe just maybe Jose knew that he would benefit from more playing time in a lesser team and improve as a player and then come back, but then it was too late as Jose was sacked.

Drumpot

finno wrote: »

As for beating the door down maybe Mourinho wouldn't sell them to rivals in
the PL .

finno wrote: »

Mourinho sated himself that he was not involved in that sale of Mata to Utd

So forgetting the fact that Chelsea managers appear to have little input in who the club will sell or buy. You think Jose didn't get involved in the clubs multiple player of the season being sold to the champions of England, a direct competitor of a Chelsea side he managed. But he got involved in the sale of players he didn't think were good enough and hadn't proven anything at that stage? . .

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So then argue to buy him instead of a current CB we have. Your arguement of selling two full backs we have played for about 90minutes all season to then buy Evans makes no sense.

If we are going to look for an upgrade on Smalling, and I agree that we should, then i'll be majorly pissed if Evans is the player we go for. An upgrade.... maybe, arguably not, but at best he is nowhere near good enough to be doing that for.

We should be buying a top class CB, not a good PL lad like Evans, cause he is cheap.

Go for Alderwield, for example.

I would sign both... 3m is nothing

Lithium93_

Will I Am Not wrote: »

We’ll get second and win the FA Cup. Madrid will win the Champions League and we’ll have a nice peaceful Summer in here :pac:

I'll buy a bottle of whatever your drinking.

Would be great for the club to 1. Get new players in early, 2. Hold on to & swat away any offers for currents players, for example Madrid batting eyelashes at Spanish Super-Man..

I hope they sign Courtois instead

finno

Drumpot wrote: »

So forgetting the fact that Chelsea managers appear to have little input in who the club will sell or buy. You think Jose didn't get involved in the clubs multiple player of the season being sold to the champions of England, a direct competitor of a Chelsea side he managed. But he got involved in the sale of players he didn't think were good enough and hadn't proven anything at that stage? . .

If you look at my first post i said MAYBE

Adamocovic

I know Jones will always carry worries of injuries but I'm very happy about how his season has gone. Yeah he had the knock recently but looking at PL appearances for our CBs this season: (Brackets showing substitute appearances)

Smalling 25(1)
Jones 22
Lindelof 11(4)
Baily 10(1)
Rojo 6(1)

I honestly think they have looked at managing Jones better to avoid injuries and that if they can continue with keeping him fit he will be a favourite of Mourinhos.
Jones is the exact type of player Jose normally loves. Similar to John Terry in his attitude when it comes to throwing his body on the line, passion for the game and how much he will give you. Something Jose has praised previously.

Some question his leadership abilities, or even the lack of a leader in the squad but I certainly can't wait to see how Jones career continues with us next season. He may be linked away a lot but I just can't see us selling him unless situations change and he no longers has a role to play.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

I would sign both... 3m is nothing

So which CB(s)should we sell to accommodate for both? If you bring them both in without selling there is going to be serious squad inharmony. Bear in mind the players we have there already fighting for 2 positions.

And if you are buying Evan’s it’s for CB position not to play LB, he might play at LB sometimes for a team who play CB’s all across the back line but not a hope would he be able to play Lb in a top end of the table team, he is ok with the ball at his feet but he is not good enough for that position

paulbok

bangkok wrote: »

Bailly jones and rojo seem to be injured a lot.

Fosu mensah is a right back

For 3m you are buying a player who is probably better than smalling and is a decent passer of the ball

That may be true re: Smalling but if we are buying a defender we should be replacing Smalling who most here expect to be the one shipped out to make room, with someone to go straight into the first team. No point replacing a back up with a back and not addressing the XI.

Just because the price is practically non existent in the current market doesn't mean we need to jump on it.
If I'm hungry and fancy a pineapple pizza, I don't go into Dealz and buy a bucket of pick & mix for €2.

Trigger

Why do people keep thinking that Smalling will be the one to go, it looks as if Smalling is one of the players that Jose trusts, by playing him even when the others are fit, so he would keep him as a back up if he is upgrading.

Imo the only way Smalling moves on is that Jose buys a CB and he moves to get more minutes.

Trigger

Loving the food analogies guys, keep them up

Lord TSC

astradave wrote: »

Why do people keep thinking that Smalling will be the one to go, it looks as if Smalling is one of the players that Jose trusts, by playing him even when the others are fit, so he would keep him as a back up if he is upgrading.

Imo the only way Smalling moves on is that Jose buys a CB and he moves to get more minutes.

Smalling is the one least likely to want to be a back up, most likely to get a good fee for, and wasn't bought by Jose. If he was willing to be a bench player, with Bailly and a new CB ahead of him, grand. But I think he's the type of player who wouldn't be happy with that. Jones and Lindelof and Rojo, I think, would be.

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

I would sign both... 3m is nothing

So sign all the players then right what could go wrong. We've seen how well 3 LW's works!

Lord TSC

Paul Hirst - The Times

Manchester United are hoping to persuade Ryan Sessegnon, the England Under-21 left back, to sign for them this summer if he decides to leave Fulham.

José Mourinho, the United manager, wants to sign at least one full-back in the close season. Antonio Valencia, the right-back, turns 33 in August and Ashley Young has been Mourinho’s first-choice left-back even though he sees himself as a winger.

Sessegnon is one of a number of left-backs United have been monitoring all season. The 17-year-old won the Championship player of the year and young player of the year awards this month after starring in Fulham’s push for promotion to the Premier League.

The teenager is sixth in the league’s top scorers’ table, with 15 goals this season. United, along with several other clubs including Tottenham Hotspur, have scouted the defender extensively. It is understood that Sessegnon would prefer to stay in London.

Spurs want Sessegnon to rival Ben Davies for a first-team place. The London club are likely to sell Danny Rose, the England left-back who has fallen out of favour under Mauricio Pochettino and is also on United’s radar. Alex Sandro of Juventus and Celtic’s Kieran Tierney are also of interest to United.

Daley Blind and Matteo Darmian are surplus to requirements and are free to leave this summer. Luke Shaw, the England defender, is also likely to leave if United sign a new left-back. Shaw has one year left on his contract and is out of favour with Mourinho, who has started him in just seven league games so far this season.

Mourinho also wants to sign at least one central midfielder to replace Michael Carrick, who is retiring, and Marouane Fellaini, who is out of contract in June.

Andreas Pereira, the Brazilian playmaker, is pessimistic about his chances of being given a chance at United next season. The 22-year-old has been on loan at Valencia all season, where he has played 28 times and has scored one goal.

“It was a good experience. I now know what it’s like to fight for a place. It strengthens you physically and mentally when you play week in, week out at the highest level. You don’t learn anything on the bench,” he said.

“However, I know I can’t claim a starting spot at Manchester United. All you have to do is look at the bench.

“My future at Valencia depends on Manchester United. All the options remain open, but I don’t want to be loaned again. I’ve shown what I can do. This summer, I want clarity. I want to be able to stay at a club for two to three years in order to build something.”

wanderer100

Imagine if it's Arsenal

https://twitter.com/elko_b/status/989426810378248192?s=21

bangkok

wanderer100 wrote: »

Imagine if it's Arsenal

https://twitter.com/elko_b/status/989426810378248192?s=21

He will do a better job than wenger is doing!

8-10

8-10 wrote: »

I seem to recall Mourinho selling de Bruyne to Wolfsburg at the age of 22 and sending Salah to Italy as surplus to requirements at the age of 22

I'm not convinced that Martial has shown his true form yet at United, whether it be playing out of position or just still to hit his stride with consistent starts, but at the age of 22 I'm not convinced that getting rid now is the best idea. There's a potentially seriously good player in there

Its impossible to know what pushes people on to become the best players in the world and at what age they start becoming one, if they had stayed at Chelsea maybe it wouldn't have happened, going to lesser teams and becoming a focal role with a chance to develop without pressure is probably a good thing for most.

The bigger teams if they want to be competing cant be giving too much room in the squad to potential over performance and given United have 2 players in the same position who are both at that stage something has to give as keeping both might actually hinder both their development with split game time

Whatsisname

Jonny Evans is bang average.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Its impossible to know what pushes people on to become the best players in the world and at what age they start becoming one, if they had stayed at Chelsea maybe it wouldn't have happened, going to lesser teams and becoming a focal role with a chance to develop without pressure is probably a good thing for most.

The bigger teams if they want to be competing cant be giving too much room in the squad to potential over performance and given United have 2 players in the same position who are both at that stage something has to give as keeping both might actually hinder both their development with split game time

8-10 wrote: »

I think it's a case of buying too young. Foreign players rarely spend more than 5 years with a PL club these days, and they start to peak somewhere between 23 and 26

Means if you're a selling club you should be getting them in at 19/20 to sell when they start killing it, and if you're a big club like United you should in general buy at 22/23 to get the strong years.

There's obviously exceptions and Martial is one of those where they probably said we have to move now otherwise he'll go somewhere else...I'm just saying that if you make that move you have to back it. I'd be sending him out on loan, Lyon or Marsellie for example for a year and then making the sell or keep decision

Actually this is a fair point and a good idea never crossed my mind to loan Martial out I'd suggested it for rashford although im not sure if Martial would go for it but I like it

astradave

astradave wrote: »

Loving the food analogies guys, keep them up

Pineaplle steak im using that one

Adamocovic

8-10 wrote: »

I think it's a case of buying too young. Foreign players rarely spend more than 5 years with a PL club these days, and they start to peak somewhere between 23 and 26

Means if you're a selling club you should be getting them in at 19/20 to sell when they start killing it, and if you're a big club like United you should in general buy at 22/23 to get the strong years.

There's obviously exceptions and Martial is one of those where they probably said we have to move now otherwise he'll go somewhere else...I'm just saying that if you make that move you have to back it. I'd be sending him out on loan, Lyon or Marsellie for example for a year and then making the sell or keep decision

I think perhaps we have begun to look at it that way. While I doubt we will trigger it the fact that we included a buy-back option for Memphis I found to be promising. I reckon the whole Pogba saga may have been a wake up call in that regard. Can't remember us really putting buy-back clauses into deals before.

Could be completely wrong here, no doubt a big flurry of multiple buy-back options we've used haha!

Cantona's Collars

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Pineaplle steak im using that one

Pineapple on a gammon steak is lovely.

Pork chops,apple sauce and grated cheese on top.

Lithium93_

Here we go again with the pineapple love :pac:

hufpc8w3adnk65

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Here we go again with the pineapple love :pac:

No it’s not.... let’s let the food chat stop here

Hococop

MrMac84 wrote: »

No it’s not.... let’s let the food chat stop here

Aww you're bacon my heart by stopping the food chat.......

Please don't hurt me