Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

beno619

GSPfan wrote: »

Give over. Neither of them have been singled out for individual criticism to the level Shaw has. Shaw is being insulted on a personal level the likes I’ve not seen before from a United manager. You can argue Pogba and Martial don’t warrant that kind of criticism but both are guilty of the things Jose accuses Shaw of but don’t have to deal with the insults.

IMO.

I disagree with all of that. You've made your position on José pretty clear so no point going back and forward.

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

How did he insult him? Because he said he has less defensive awareness then Valencia?

How come it's ok for pundits and football writers to say even worse about players but the minute Jose does it it's bullying and insulting?

Jose has a style and I agree it is over the top and more so the past few weeks but thats his style but to say he is going out if his way to bully someone and I suit them is not write.

As I said before Jose will live or die by his decisions if he gets it wrong he will be sacked but don't accuse the man of something that's far from the truth.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/04/05/jose-mourinho-continues-damning-luke-shaw-criticism-body-brain/

Doesnt get much more insulting than that for a player/person

GSPfan

beno619 wrote: »

I disagree with all of that. You've made your position on José pretty clear so no point going back and forward.

What is that position? Honestly what is it because I have no idea at times.

GSPfan

pjohnson wrote: »

Vaguely remembered Whiplash. Miles Teller, J.K. Simmons & Mellissa Benoist all together.

It’s amazing. I’ve never rewatched the ending of a film before immediately after viewing it the first time. I literally rewound it and watched it again on the edge of my chair.

pjohnson

GSPfan wrote: »

Whataboutism.

So thats a no then

StringerBell

GSPfan wrote: »

See above.

See above?

The please mr take me from the pitch was not directed specifically to Shaw or even said at the time he was discussing the substitution, did you actually watch the interviews?

The thinking for him if argue actually but I fully understand why someone would take that insulting. That's one

What else?

In case it's unclear, my point is that these repeated criticisms boil down to one time from last season was it? Or at least very early this season when he said something that was pretty insulting if you take it as literal words rather than a guy using his second or third language and messing up his point.

Either way I will offer no defence for that. He insulted him then, you can have that one no problem. All I want is evidence of the repeated public insults.

The narrative being spun of bullying, humiliating etc (not specific to you) is laughable

It negates any genuine discussion that could be had around the issue, so if there are actual instance where he has insulted him repeatedly let's just have them out and go through them

So nobody has a problem with what Jose said most recently just what he said months ago. Well now we are getting somewhere at least

GSPfan

pjohnson wrote: »

So thats a no then

I’ve made my thoughts on Ferguson very clear so no point going back and forth.

GSPfan

StringerBell wrote: »

See above?

The please mr take me from the pitch was not directed specifically to Shaw or even said at the time he was discussing the substitution, did you actually watch the interviews?

The thinking for him if argue actually but I fully understand why someone would take that insulting. That's one

What else?

I quickly googled this to satisfy your urge. I can already hear you say that they are not insults etc. etc. but they are. They are deliberate attempts to put his character in to question.

https://www.google.ie/amp/www.goal.com/en/amp/news/video-please-mr-take-me-from-the-pitch-mourinhos-criticisms/124pyuc3w3dal1bhhijfv80zx2

Liam McPoyle

bangkok wrote: »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/04/05/jose-mourinho-continues-damning-luke-shaw-criticism-body-brain/

Doesnt get much more insulting than that for a player/person

See this thing gets trotted out every so often as another stick to beat Jose with.

What he is (imo) saying is that Shaw at that point did not have any tactical nous, he had the physical and technical skills but his overall awareness was lacking.

It's a whole heap of hell over nothing.

Even if Jose DID mean He (Shaw) was brainless he also said he had the physical and technical tools so it's still 2 compliments vs 1 insult.

GSPfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So nobody has a problem with what Jose said most recently just what he said months ago. Well now we are getting somewhere at least

I have a problem on what he said recently. Feel like it was another insult aimed at a guy who he is looking to either sell or inspire. Really have no idea which one it is at this stage.

StringerBell

Yeah tbh I'm not gonna read a goal article where the first thing I saw related to a comment that was not directed at Shaw as it's headline.

I just wanted you to tell me what the repeated public insults that you are bothered about so I can try to understand your position.

Now, the fact that you take it as an insult that mourinho when asked why he took him off said, because I was not happy with his performance, I could have subatituted either full back but Valencia was doing a little better defensively so I took Luke off leads me to believe there is not actually repeated public insults.

Just things you don't like or want to twist as an excuse to beat the manager about.

A straight answer to a question of why you substituted a player while also including other players in a critical assessment of performance is never in any reality a public insult.

That he actually gave his reasoning for why he substituted Shaw and not Valencia and explained it proves he was not there to simply insult Shaw. Many easier ways to insult someone

I'll ask again, did you actually watch or did you just read the transcripts/editing of the comments?

GSPfan

Business Cat wrote: »

See this thing gets trotted out every so often as another stick to beat Jose with.

What he is (imo) saying is that Shaw at that point did not have any tactical nous, he had the physical and technical skills but his overall awareness was lacking.

It's a whole heap of hell over nothing.

Even if Jose DID mean He (Shaw) was brainless he also said he had the physical and technical tools so it's still 2 compliments vs 1 insult.

Ah here. Not sure even the most fanatical Jose supporters would use a 2v1 insult scoring system to defend the comments.

GSPfan

StringerBell wrote: »

Yeah tbh I'm not gonna read a goal article where the first thing I saw related to a comment that was not directed at Shaw as it's headline.

I just wanted you to tell me what the repeated public insults that you are bothered about so I can try to understand your position.

Now, the fact that you take it as an insult that mourinho when asked why he took him off said, because I was not happy with his performance, I could have subatituted either full back but Valencia was doing a little better defensively so I took Luke off leads me to believe there is not actually repeated public insults.

Just things you don't like or want to twist as an excuse to beat the manager about.

A straight answer to a question of why you substituted a player while also including other players in a critical assessment of performance is never in any reality a public insult.

That he actually gave his reasoning for why he substituted Shaw and not Valencia and explained it proves he was not there to simply insult Shaw. Many easier ways to insult someone

I'll ask again, did you actually watch or did you just read the transcripts/editing of the comments?

There’s a video in that link.

Yes.

Edited out a word incase you took offence. Was meant in jest.

dubmick

off topic: anyone get any of the most recent United training gear? I got a training jersey for mucking about in (size medium) and it is like a dress on me. Bizarre shape. Going straight back with it for a refund.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Sexual

https://twitter.com/ManUtdReport_/status/976113707125301248?s=19

pjohnson

dubmick wrote: »

off topic: anyone get any of the most recent United training gear? I got a training jersey for mucking about in (size medium) and it is like a dress on me. Bizarre shape. Going straight back with it for a refund.

I'm sure some people think this is Jose's fault.

StringerBell

GSPfan wrote: »

There’s a video in that link you fool.

Yes.

That shows you how far I got once I saw the headline

GSPfan

StringerBell wrote: »

That shows you how far I got once I saw the headline

I know we disagree on stuff but I would never intentionally make someone read.

A video says a thousand words.

Trigger

GSPfan wrote: »

I know we disagree on stuff but I would never intentionally make someone read.

A video says a thousand words.

That’s discrimination against us deaf blokes! I’m going to report you for bullying

Ninthlife

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Sexual

https://twitter.com/ManUtdReport_/status/976113707125301248?s=19

I see the invisible man is modelling the kit, he should fit right in with some of the players who disappear on the pitch lately

pjohnson

Ninthlife wrote: »

I see the invisible man is modelling the kit, he should fit right in with some of the players who disappear on the pitch lately

Stop bullying him.

TheDoc

StringerBell wrote: »

List out some of the repeated public insults so we can discuss them.

Not the comments regarding match performance like the cup game when he was explicitly asked why he substituted him, which is obviously very different to repeated public insults..

It’s worth noting that plenty of people are interpreting Jose’s comments about character etc. to apply to Shaw as well as the team.

The other issue is that Shaw wasn’t playing bad and Ashley Young did nothing differently. Which puts into focus that Shaw may be receiving harsh treatment based on the manager just not liking him. There is very little justification in terms of his explanations. They just don’t make sense.

He says Shaw was exposed a bit defensively but yet was shouting at him to constantly push up and expose space behind. Well what does he want ?

He said himself. Two days coaching something totally at odds with his own general ideas. If he’s changing cool , but expect players to make mistakes and be unsure at times as to what is required.

Just like he gave himself and the players the excuse about it taking time to wash out Van Gaals methods, it might take time to wash out his own

You know Shaw is a weird case in that originally I didn’t even buy into his hype. I appreciate from the little I’ve seen he’s a good player but I actually shouldn’t be anyway concerned if he makes it or not. He’s not say how I look or feel about Pogba.

But there is just something about the way this scenario always appears or transpired that generates massive empathy from me and I hate seeing it happen to him.

I was looking at the tunnel cam footage from the Brighton game just to see what mood the players were in 'backstage'. Of course, even with my armchair psychology qualification, I can't tell too much by looking at this footage.

I will say though that Pogba arrived into OT with a smile on his face and in apparently good spirits even though he knew that he wasn't going to be starting once again. A week before that, we saw him interrupt Jose during an interview after the Liverpool game to congratulate Jose and share an embrace.

You never know, Pogba could be poking a voodoo doll of Jose behind closed doors, but the player seems to be conducting himself well during this phase where he is spending more time on the bench than the pitch.

Actually, the most I took from that tunnel cam footage is a bit more affection for Lukaku. He greets stewards and staff when some other United players just walk past them with their heads stuck in their phones. He comes across as a gent to anyone who talks to him.

Returning to the dressing room at half-time, most players are just wandering on their own through the tunnel as they catch their breath, but Rom is walking alongside Martial. You can see that Lukaku is talking about the game, making directions with his arms and suggestions to Martial.

It's not much, but in this footage where other United players (and the Brighton players) come across as NPCs in a video game (or extras on a TV show), Lukaku appears to be the main character and personality. He's a big man, but his presence and personality seem to leave his impressive physical size in the shadows.

Fúck all that talk about 'captain material', the position is overrated in today's game. However, character and personality is just as important as it ever was and we are severely lacking players with those attributes in the current squad.

Luke Shaw is 'only 22' (23 in July) but Lukaku is 'only 24' (25 in May). They are both young players with only 2 years between them, but their attitudes seem to be light years apart.

These are the polar opposite ends of the spectrum of characters and personalities Jose is working with at the moment. The rest of United's players lie somewhere in between Shaw and Lukaku. While a few are close to Lukaku's end, there are still a few too many veering towards Shaw's end for Jose to have a squad truly capable of challenging on 4 fronts.

It might be too late for some players, like Shaw, but there will be other United players with a lot to prove in these remaining 10 games or so ahead of what I imagine will be a cull in Summer.

TheDoc

astradave wrote: »

That’s discrimination against us deaf blokes! I’m going to report you for bullying

Are you actually deaf ?

Last night OTB were playing back Jose's weekend comments at length and discussing Jose and Luke Shaw with Pat Nevin.

Tonight on OTB...we have Andy Mitten on talking about the Jose/Shaw situation, and we play those same comments back again.

You can't really blame 'neutrals' for being absolutely sick of us :pac:

xtal191

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Sexual

https://twitter.com/ManUtdReport_/status/976113707125301248?s=19

Its mad the amount of websites saying this could be the jersey, its clearly some lad on Instagram doing his own designs based on the leaked colours.

Trigger

TheDoc wrote: »

Are you actually deaf ?

Yep.. bilaterally, went deaf suddenly as a teenager in one ear and then the other ear started going down over the years, it’s pretty bad these days, I got Cochlear implant surgery there about a month or so ago. So I’m in the process of rehabbing. You basically need to teach your brain to hear again.. it’s tough going. I try not to let it effect my everyday life.. most people say to me that they wouldn’t even know, I’m a excellent lip reader so can follow conversation very well.

astradave

astradave wrote: »

Yep.. bilaterally, went deaf suddenly as a teenager in one ear and then the other ear started going down over the years, it’s pretty bad these days, I got Cochlear implant surgery there about a month or so ago. So I’m in the process of rehabbing. You basically need to teach your brain to hear again.. it’s tough going

Hah? :eek:

Sorry to read that Dave, that would be one of my worst nightmares.

Hope the surgery will prove a success.

Trigger

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hah? :eek:

Sorry to read that Dave, that would be one of my worst nightmares.

Hope the surgery will prove a success.

Meh, it is what it is.. I’ve learned to deal with it over the years. You being a big music person, I’d say it is one of your nightmares

astradave

astradave wrote: »

Meh, it is what it is.. I’ve learned to deal with it over the years. You being a big music person, I’d say it is one of your nightmares

Ah look, it'd be a bitch but would just have to get on with it. It's not an ideal situation no matter what the person does in life. I'd probably scrap the music and go all-in on that armchair psychology career :pac:

On another note...

That Andy Mitten segment which just finished on OTB was actually good. A lot about Jose/Shaw/United in general.

Might be worth listening to on the newstalk site for anyone who missed it and is interested.

TheDoc

astradave wrote: »

Yep.. bilaterally, went deaf suddenly as a teenager in one ear and then the other ear started going down over the years, it’s pretty bad these days, I got Cochlear implant surgery there about a month or so ago. So I’m in the process of rehabbing. You basically need to teach your brain to hear again.. it’s tough going. I try not to let it effect my everyday life.. most people say to me that they wouldn’t even know, I’m a excellent lip reader so can follow conversation very well.

Thanks for sharing. I like to think of us for all our rows a little community within a thread so like learning things about people here

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

It’s worth noting that plenty of people are interpreting Jose’s comments about character etc. to apply to Shaw as well as the team.

The other issue is that Shaw wasn’t playing bad and Ashley Young did nothing differently. Which puts into focus that Shaw may be receiving harsh treatment based on the manager just not liking him. There is very little justification in terms of his explanations. They just don’t make sense.

He says Shaw was exposed a bit defensively but yet was shouting at him to constantly push up and expose space behind. Well what does he want ?

He said himself. Two days coaching something totally at odds with his own general ideas. If he’s changing cool , but expect players to make mistakes and be unsure at times as to what is required.

Just like he gave himself and the players the excuse about it taking time to wash out Van Gaals methods, it might take time to wash out his own

You know Shaw is a weird case in that originally I didn’t even buy into his hype. I appreciate from the little I’ve seen he’s a good player but I actually shouldn’t be anyway concerned if he makes it or not. He’s not say how I look or feel about Pogba.

But there is just something about the way this scenario always appears or transpired that generates massive empathy from me and I hate seeing it happen to him.

Defenders can still push up and not be exposed defensively when they do it right.

Where did he say what he coached was totally at odds with own ideas?

Again his ex teams have performed well after he has moved on winning leagues cups etc so your point about having to wash out his methods hasnt been true in the past so there is no reason to think differently about United.

TheDoc

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Last night OTB were playing back Jose's weekend comments at length and discussing Jose and Luke Shaw with Pat Nevin.

Tonight on OTB...we have Andy Mitten on talking about the Jose/Shaw situation, and we play those same comments back again.

You can't really blame 'neutrals' for being absolutely sick of us :pac:

You know what only thinking about this today. Didn’t listen to my pods yesterday with the bank holiday so went through three today.

Second captains , Sunday supplement and totally football.

While I’m engrossed by the United talk and Ken Early on second captains fans of other clubs must be thinking it’s getting ridiculous haha. He’s just consumed with Mourinho haha.

DM_7

Well I for one am shocked that a teenage footballer, going from a (relatively) smaller club in the south to the biggest in the country way up north, on a huge contract, with immature voices brought with him, criticised by his new manager, his national team manager, with a major injury in his second season, with a change of manager at the club before his third, competing with senior/experienced players, in a high pressure environment has struggled to get in the team. Shocked.

This must be the first time a young player, making a major move, on big money, suffering a big injury, in a period of instability with his manager getting sacked has ever struggled to get into a team.

What a meanie that Jose is for playing him over better prepared footballers. That lovely Van Gaal fella gave him one more game in his first season.

TheDoc

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Defenders can still push up and not be exposed defensively when they do it right.

Where did he say what he coached was totally at odds with own ideas?

Again his ex teams have performed well after he has moved on winning leagues cups etc so your point about having to wash out his methods hasnt been true in the past so there is no reason to think differently about United.

Jose is quoted multiple times indicating he sees the midfield as the most dangerous part of the pitch in terms of losing a match and prefers to bypass it in many occasions.

He gave a lecture over the summer where he spoke about the Ajax game plan where he mentioned it and also after we lost to Ciry last season. There is in-depth stuff about his Inter and Madrid team where this was also a pillar of his coaching and style.

It was part of his invention and “what is this” when he arrived with Chelsea and been a stable of his success. But as the game has evolved into what we see big teams and clubs do in terms of a midfield, he hasn’t seemed to changed.

Hence why I thought it was interesting saying he coached two days worth of transitioning the ball through the stages quicker. And the midfield.

That’s a positive thing for me I hope he continues. And signals a departure to something new. Unless it was all in th context of just Brighton then it’s pointless. Just have to wait and see

Liam McPoyle

Lads, how's Memphis doing these days?

Business Cat

Business Cat wrote: »

Lads, how's Memphis doing these days?

Scored a header the weekend at least i think it was this weekend only saw a clip on the twitter machine

TheDoc

Business Cat wrote: »

Lads, how's Memphis doing these days?

http://www.planetfootball.com/in-depth/memphis-depay-isnt-finding-level-hes-just-playing-freedom/

Was only reading that last week. I still keep tabs on him week to week.

He’s doing very well.

Follow him on Snapchat and while he still does that stuff that might annoy people and make them assume attitude problems (snaps of nice cars and showing of a bit in terms of lifestyle) there is nothing really ever about his attitude at Lyon.

For all intensive purposes doing really well out of the spotlight and just being trusted to do his thing.

Still watch him and still see all the tools and things that could make an unbelievable player. Maybe he will get it right in the coming years as he matures.

Liam McPoyle

TheDoc wrote: »

http://www.planetfootball.com/in-depth/memphis-depay-isnt-finding-level-hes-just-playing-freedom/

Was only reading that last week. I still keep tabs on him week to week.

He’s doing very well.

Follow him on Snapchat and while he still does that stuff that might annoy people and make them assume attitude problems (snaps of nice cars and showing of a bit in terms of lifestyle) there is nothing really ever about his attitude at Lyon.

For all intensive purposes doing really well out of the spotlight and just being trusted to do his thing.

Still watch him and still see all the tools and things that could make an unbelievable player. Maybe he will get it right in the coming years as he matures.

Don't mention his Instagram or you will trigger bangkok.

bangkok

Business Cat wrote: »

Don't mention his Instagram or you will trigger bangkok.

Meh, a decent player but was never going to work out under jose. Wouldnt be his cup of tea

Andrew Beef

Memphis is yet another example of style over substance in the modern game. He was someone who I was glad to see the back of.

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

Meh, a decent player but was never going to work out under jose. Wouldnt be his cup of tea

Imagine the bullying jose would give him over the clothes he wears and cars he drives poor lad had a lucky escape

Potential Underachiever

TheDoc wrote: »

http://www.planetfootball.com/in-depth/memphis-depay-isnt-finding-level-hes-just-playing-freedom/

Was only reading that last week. I still keep tabs on him week to week.

He’s doing very well.

Follow him on Snapchat and while he still does that stuff that might annoy people and make them assume attitude problems (snaps of nice cars and showing of a bit in terms of lifestyle) there is nothing really ever about his attitude at Lyon.

For all intensive purposes doing really well out of the spotlight and just being trusted to do his thing.

Still watch him and still see all the tools and things that could make an unbelievable player. Maybe he will get it right in the coming years as he matures.

Not to be a d1ck it's all intents and purposes just fyi that's all.

J. Marston

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Not to be a d1ck it's all intents and purposes just fyi that's all.

Potential Underachiever

That'd be the worst case Ontario.

Trigger

At least he’s not lack toast and tolerant!

paulbok

astradave wrote: »

At least he’s not lack toast and tolerant!

Can you be more Pacific?

Trigger

paulbok wrote: »

Can you be more Pacific?

Use your calm and sense and put it all in the past tents. I really don’t have the patients for this.

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

Use your calm and sense and put it all in the past tents. I really don’t have the patients for this.

That's like something I'd write stop bullying me.