Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

Mitch Connor

Business Cat wrote: »

Did he not get injured again following his brief comeback a couple of weeks ago?

Jose has consistently said in the last few matches that everyone was fit, apart from Romero - so going by that he is not injured.

He has had a few Instagram updates that indicate he ain't bed bound and is around the club - so even if injured (and no one at the club has indicated he is) it would be no reason why he would not have been there last night (there could be other reasons).

I'm not saying it is 100% that he's been binned out of the squad - but no injury reports, no show at the end of year awards show, it isn't looking good.

EDIT: Also, the reports this morning saying Baily is worried he is being frozen out.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Apparently Bailly was not at the ceremony last night.

Could be a perfectly reasonable excuse for it - but given his absence from the squad in recent weeks since his return from injury, it feels like Jose has taken a dislike to him and binned him out of the squad Valdes style.

Hopefully there actually isn't anything to it cause he is our best centre back, but it isn't looking good from the outside.

Something def going on with him. Romero was our only injured player last week and now bailly is a no show at the awards last night. Not a good sign

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The McTominay award feels like Jose giving himself an award.

Personally don't see much in McTominay to get excited about. a solidly average player who could become a good squad player and usefull to have in the first team squad, but would be surprised to see him blossom into the quality of player we would be delighted to see as a first choice player in midfield.

Yep will be hard for him to blossom if we sign fred and felaini signs a new deal, although in saying that his body may fill out in the summer and he may have a brilliant pre season and be a big player for us next season

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

Yep will be hard for him to blossom if we sign fred and felaini signs a new deal, although in saying that his body may fill out in the summer and he may have a brilliant pre season and be a big player for us next season

My issue isn't him being blocked from blossoming - I just don't see the potential in him to do so and United would be insane, imo, to bank on him doing so.

I don't see great pace, eye for a pass, control or creativity.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

My issue isn't him being blocked from blossoming - I just don't see the potential in him to do so and United would be insane, imo, to bank on him doing so.

I don't see great pace, eye for a pass, control or creativity.

Agree but most of us didnt see any of that in darren fletcher and he was a huge player for us

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

Agree but most of us didnt see any of that in darren fletcher and he was a huge player for us

and for a lot of his time with United he was a very good squad player, but probably below the level of player required as first choice in a CL winning side.

Much the same as I see as the best case for McTominay, and important, situational, squad player. Similar to Fellaini.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

and for a lot of his time with United he was a very good squad player, but probably below the level of player required as first choice in a CL winning side.

Much the same as I see as the best case for McTominay, and important, situational, squad player. Similar to Fellaini.

2008 he was brilliant for us in champions league and was cruely suspended for the final

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

2008 he was brilliant for us in champions league and was cruely suspended for the final

So you have pointed to 1 season out of how long a career at United?

How does that contradict my comment of 'for a lot of'.

Fletcher had one season where he was very important to us - and even then it is arguable that he was really important to us cause we had not invested correctly in midfield to have it at the standard required, rather than Fletcher being genuinely one of the best midfielders in football.

PhlegmyMoses

Mitch Connor wrote: »

and for a lot of his time with United he was a very good squad player, but probably below the level of player required as first choice in a CL winning side.

Much the same as I see as the best case for McTominay, and important, situational, squad player. Similar to Fellaini.

I'm excited if the club can produce squad players who are capable of adequately filling gaps straight from the youth system. That is a great situation to be in.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So you have pointed to 1 season out of how long a career at United?

How does that contradict my comment of 'for a lot of'.

Fletcher had one season where he was very important to us - and even then it is arguable that he was really important to us cause we had not invested correctly in midfield to have it at the standard required, rather than Fletcher being genuinely one of the best midfielders in football.

I just said that season as you said he was below level required to win champions league when in fact he was good enough.

The very next season he was on the pfa team of the season and was a huge player for us.

threein99

bangkok wrote: »

2008 he was brilliant for us in champions league and was cruely suspended for the final

He was suspended for the 09 final

pjohnson

How many Average players have played nearly 350 games for us?

You'd swear Fletcher was akin to Bellion/Djemba Djemba/Kleberson the way he's been talked about.

bangkok

threein99 wrote: »

He was suspended for the 09 final

And was a massive loss that even pep acknowledged

Mitch Connor

pjohnson wrote: »

How many Average players have played nearly 350 games for us?

You'd swear Fletcher was akin to Bellion/Djemba Djemba/Kleberson the way he's been talked about.

He was a very good, solid, squad player for the most part imo.

I'm not saying he was crap and i'm not saying McTominay getting to that level would be crap. I would have Fletcher as similar to players like Nicky Butt for the most part. Occasionally brilliant, consistently good enough and really important as squad players to rotate in when looking to add to a midfield or rest better players (Scholes/Keane). Fletcher becoming so key to us was as much an indictment of our much criticised midfield recruitment as it was testament to his ability.

McTominay being as good or important as Fletch would be great - but imo that should still only get him to the level of a squad player. We should be aiming at higher for starting 11 at United - especially when you see the level that City have set as a requirement for winning the league.

Fletcher was brilliant in 08/09 but that was absolutely his peak for us imo, but i'm talking about how good he was (and he was good) over the majority of his career with us, not just 1 season.

Mars Bar

MEN saying bailly has been suffering from a virus hence his lack of attendance. Lukaku also didn't attend because of his ankle injury.

Trigger

Mars Bar wrote: »

MEN saying bailly has been suffering from a virus hence his lack of attendance. Lukaku also didn't attend because of his ankle injury.

Seems like he is quarantined so, if he has a virus he stays away from everyone.. looking at the people reporting him being shunned, they are the mirror the express and the daily mail, exactly the group that puts 2 and 2 together and gets 300.

pjohnson

RE: Bailly

While he is probably our best defender I nearly could put up with him leaving. I wouldn't want him too but I don't know if he can be a mainstay to rely on long term. We do need a reliably fit CB, Smalling is probably our most reliable at the minute which is a bit of a problem as he is also the most likely to make a blunder. I still think we should go for Lascelles imo. We haven't had a single mainstay in the center let alone two in a partnership this season. One constantly present CB would be great. Hopefully start providing leadership a la Vidic/Ferdinand

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

Seems like he is quarantined so, if he has a virus he stays away from everyone.. looking at the people reporting him being shunned, they are the mirror the express and the daily mail, exactly the group that puts 2 and 2 together and gets 300.

He was training with the squad though before arsenal game so this "sickness" doesnt add up

Edit, actually reporting he was sick last month, was back training but not picked and is now sick again

Cookiemunster

bangkok wrote: »

He was training with the squad though before arsenal game so this "sickness" doesnt add up

Training for the Arsenal game was 3 days before the awards dinner. Him training 3 days previously doesn't preclude not being able to attend the awards dinner due to a virus he didn't have 3 days earlier.

Owryan

bangkok wrote: »

He was training with the squad though before arsenal game so this "sickness" doesnt add up

Really?

I was fine the other day in college, today I'm smothering with a head cold. Perfectly possible to be fine one day and sick the next.

Trigger

Meh he’s just looking for something negative...

Moving on, seen this on Twitter, looks like our arm logo is sorted

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/991434634356514817?s=21

yabadabado

pjohnson wrote: »

RE: Bailly

While he is probably our best defender I nearly could put up with him leaving. I wouldn't want him too but I don't know if he can be a mainstay to rely on long term. We do need a reliably fit CB, Smalling is probably our most reliable at the minute which is a bit of a problem as he is also the most likely to make a blunder. I still think we should go for Lascelles imo. We haven't had a single mainstay in the center let alone two in a partnership this season. One constantly present CB would be great. Hopefully start providing leadership a la Vidic/Ferdinand

If a CB is signed I really think the club should go all out for Alderweireld. Up there with the very best around.

Mitch Connor

Owryan wrote: »

Really?

I was fine the other day in college, today I'm smothering with a head cold. Perfectly possible to be fine one day and sick the next.

So he came down with a virus after the City game, before the West Brom game, recovered to train with the squad prior to the the game on Sunday and came down with another virus between Sunday and Tuesday.

So unlucky.

Mitch Connor

yabadabado wrote: »

If a CB is signed I really think the club should go all out for Alderweireld. Up there with the very best around.

Yep - that feels like the most obvious transfer saga of the summer for us. Spurs seem like they will be happy enough to sell him (for a price) this summer rather than for cheap next summer and the contract stand off has him out of team (which I find massively unethical on their part) anyway so is doing them no good.

You have to think he will be moving this summer - but the list of suitors will not be short.

Real, Barca, PSG, Bayern, Juve, Chelsea, City and us would all be very interested in signing him, imo.

Owryan

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So he came down with a virus after the City game, before the West Brom game, recovered to train with the squad prior to the the game on Sunday and came down with another virus between Sunday and Tuesday.

So unlucky.

What are you on about?

The reason given as to why he was absent last night was due to a virus. Not why he has not played recently.

Mitch Connor

Owryan wrote: »

What are you on about?

The reason given as to why he was absent last night was due to a virus. Not why he has not played recently.

The reason given for missing the West Brom game was coming down with a virus the day before the match.

pjohnson

yabadabado wrote: »

If a CB is signed I really think the club should go all out for Alderweireld. Up there with the very best around.

I would certainly be delighted if that happened aswell! All be it a shorter term solution than Lascelles he would be a major instant boost to the quality of the defence!

Mitch Connor

pjohnson wrote: »

I would certainly be delighted if that happened aswell! All be it a shorter term solution than Lascelles he would be a major instant boost to the quality of the defence!

We need a leader, which is what I would see in Alderwield.

I think Bailly and/or Lindelof would benefit from playing alongside him.

pjohnson

Mitch Connor wrote: »

We need a leader, which is what I would see in Alderwield.

I think Bailly and/or Lindelof would benefit from playing alongside him.

Alderweireld certainly provides leadership. The only reason I mentioned Lascelles was 1) hes younger 2) Don't have to deal with Levy who will certainly charge any English club faaaar more than a foreign club.

We need a constant. Like Liverpool since VVD arrived his partner has rotated but he has been a constant. We have no one we can rely on.

yabadabado

pjohnson wrote: »

Alderweireld certainly provides leadership. The only reason I mentioned Lascelles was 1) hes younger 2) Don't have to deal with Levy who will certainly charge any English club faaaar more than a foreign club.

We need a constant. Like Liverpool since VVD arrived his partner has rotated but he has been a constant. We have no one we can rely on.

We have Bailly and Lindelof who are both young CBs already at the club and who probably need direction from a senior players.
Lascelles won't be cheap either I don't think there would be a huge difference price wise if rumours are true.
As Mitch said Toby A will have a huge list of suitors.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/ManUtdMEN/status/991639437875466240

"Sandro becomes the priority to replace Shaw,interest cooled in Rose and Tierney."

Lord TSC

Me gusta

TheDoc

jayo26 wrote: »

The problem i have with this is he is pretty much another left midfielder and likes to drift Inside? I really don't see where we going to fit any more over there.

Can actually do both, he primarily plays of the right cutting inside.

I don't actually know how decent he is, just see snippets and highlights.

But there is such a derth of talented right sided players that are either exclusively right wingers, or can cut inside onto a left foot.

Like I say, you make a top 3-5 and Arjen Robben is still there. We were trying to sign Persisic for **** sake

TheDoc

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I don't buy that. What's the scope? Just PL?
Utd are ready to finish 2nd in the league, have Utd been average all season to achieve this? Afraid to think where we would be if we were good.

Utd have a very respectable record this season against the top sides.
How did all those top players perform against Utd when Utd beat them?

Lets take the full results:
Liverpool 0 - Utd 0
Man Utd 1 - Tottenham 0
Chelsea 1 - Man Utd 0
Man Utd 1 - Tottenham 0 - League Cup
Arsenal 1 - Man Utd 3
Man Utd 1 - Man City 2
Tottenham 2 - Man Utd 0
Man Utd 2 - Chelsea 1
Man Utd 2 - Liverpool 1
Man City 2 - Man Utd 3
Tottenham 1 - Man Utd 2 - FA cup
Man Utd 2 - Arsenal 1

Really isn't a United player, outfield, that has been in any sort of consistency or form that would have then in contention for the Team of Year (sorry that what we are talking about?) and rightly so.

Lukaku is the really only decent shout, and he'd be coming in third in terms of strikers.

And that has been a problem post Fergie. We havn't had any standout outfield players reaching a level of consistency operating throughout the season, nevermind the team itself functioning well or to a standard.

For me it's why the "2nd" this is a bit false. As you say, we are second, and none of our outfield players have a shout for team of the year, and rightly so.

TheDoc

S.M.B. wrote: »

I am not buying the football writers agenda against United argument but I do find it interesting that Firminho's season is been heralded as a massive success whereas Lukaku has 1 more goal and the same amount of assists in ~60 minutes more of football.

I would be happy to see him pip DDG to our POTY. I think DDG is our most talented player at the moment but I don't think he's had such an outstanding season (apart from that one game against Arsenal) that him getting the prize should be a given.

Firminho has been very clearly better. Whatever about goals and assists, he is the fulcrum to which all the spark of Liverpools attacking play comes from. His movement, his technique, his finesse, his pressing and tracking, his running of the channels.

Lukaku for all his ability and talent, isn't in anyway shape or form sparking our attack or being a key part in it operation. And I don't blame him for that. And when you are talking about Football Writers, its very easy to understand why they would omit our players and pick others, and I totally agree with them.

yabadabado

TheDoc wrote: »

Can actually do both, he primarily plays of the right cutting inside.

I don't actually know how decent he is, just see snippets and highlights.

But there is such a derth of talented right sided players that are either exclusively right wingers, or can cut inside onto a left foot.

Like I say, you make a top 3-5 and Arjen Robben is still there. We were trying to sign Persisic for **** sake

I thought he played the majority of the games this season from LW?

No harm playing Sanchez on the right for a few games now to see what he does.

I'd happily take Robben on a free if he was available.

Mitch Connor

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The McTominay award feels like Jose giving himself an award.

Personally don't see much in McTominay to get excited about. a solidly average player who could become a good squad player and usefull to have in the first team squad, but would be surprised to see him blossom into the quality of player we would be delighted to see as a first choice player in midfield.

Ferguson thinks otherwise.
He's only broken through to first team at 21 years of age.

It's the pitchfork attitude at times towards Jose in here that gets exhausting.

Trigger

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ManUtdMEN/status/991639437875466240

"Sandro becomes the priority to replace Shaw,interest cooled in Rose and Tierney."

Could be that Brazilian Jose was talking about

Mars Bar

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The reason given for missing the West Brom game was coming down with a virus the day before the match.

Viruses can linger though. That was basically all of the month of March for me. ****ing write off of a month!

Although I do think some of it has to do with form. Jones has done fine when he has come in. I think Mourinho doesn't see Bailly as vital as the fans were thinking he might be. I'd like to see him beside Lindelof more though.

Adamocovic

I know McTominay doesn't thrill a lot of the fans but personally I am a fan of his and hope he continues with his progress.

He's not a player which will provide flashy skills but he's a very solid player and looks calm on the ball. At times he reminds me somewhat of Matic. He may not have everyone convinced but I think he's taken his chances brilliantly, 20 caps this season proves that (including 4 in CL).

Not to mention he has come up against quality midfielders like Pogba, Herrera, Matic, Fellaini, Carrick to get the caps. Carrick is said to be helping all the players like a coach and I imagine he is helping McTominay a lot. He may not be a flashy new signing to get people excited but I'm really hoping he can go on to be that rock in the midfield that we have looked for.

Ferguson and Mourinho both seem convinced he will have a long successful career and while a lot of people don't live up to those praises I think it's too early to write off McTominay.

Really looking forward to seeing how he kicks on next season.

Mitch Connor

Adamocovic wrote: »

I know McTominay doesn't thrill a lot of the fans but personally I am a fan of his and hope he continues with his progress.

He's not a player which will provide flashy skills but he's a very solid player and looks calm on the ball. At times he reminds me somewhat of Matic. He may not have everyone convinced but I think he's taken his chances brilliantly, 20 caps this season proves that (including 4 in CL).

Not to mention he has come up against quality midfielders like Pogba, Herrera, Matic, Fellaini, Carrick to get the caps. Carrick is said to be helping all the players like a coach and I imagine he is helping McTominay a lot. He may not be a flashy new signing to get people excited but I'm really hoping he can go on to be that rock in the midfield that we have looked for.

Ferguson and Mourinho both seem convinced he will have a long successful career and while a lot of people don't live up to those praises I think it's too early to write off McTominay.

Really looking forward to seeing how he kicks on next season.

TO be clear here - as i'm the only one arguing against McTominay.... I argued for McTOminay making himself a first team player ahead of Herrera and Fellaini earlier in the season.

I'm not writing him off. I'm not saying he is rubbish or will forever be rubbish.

I just don't think he has the potential to be one of the best midfielders around. I think he is decent, and should be kept. I would keep him and have him as our replacement for Fellaini (who i would happily say good luck to in the summer).

What I have seen of him is he carries out his intructions well, he is tidy on the ball and good in the air.

He doesn't create chances, he doesn't appear to be a goal threat, he doesn't seem to win many tackles. quick league comparison on whoscored shows him winning .5 tackles a game vs Herrera at 2.3, Pogba at 1.2 and Fellaini at 1.

In terms of passing it is 0.1 Key Pass vs 0.5 for Herrera, 1.5 for Pogba, 0.3 for Fellaini.

And those are comparisons to our own midfielders, who we have been annoyed with this season in terms of their quality and effectiveness. IMO he hasn't shown anything other than being an ok-solid player for us so far, and I would not being using worries about his progression as a reason to consider scaling back buys in midfield this summer (which is exactly where this argument started).

Right now I would have Matic, Herrera and Pogba as our first choices, with Herrera being the first up in those three to be replaced in the starting 11 this summer. That would then, imo, put Herrera, McTominay and either another new signing or Fellaini as the backups. I would be happy for McTominay to retain a squad spot and continue to come in to the side, but I wouldn't be anticipating him becoming a superstar in midfield for us. Nothing I have seen from him so far, or in the youth sides, has me thinking we have a potential superstar. We have a potential Fletcher/Butt/P.Neville imo - and that is not a bad thing.

Adamocovic

Mitch Connor wrote: »

TO be clear here - as i'm the only one arguing against McTominay.... I argued for McTOminay making himself a first team player ahead of Herrera and Fellaini earlier in the season.

I'm not writing him off. I'm not saying he is rubbish or will forever be rubbish.

Firstly you are not alone in arguing against McTominay, haven't checked the whole thread but know plenty who carry the same concerns.
Also post wasn't directed at you but just my opinion of him.

I wasn't really dealing with stats but just from watching him play. Stats, like I always say are thoroughly interesting but don't always tell the full story.

For instance taking into considerations just all the stats in whoscored.com leads us to believe Pogba was our best player this season. Something I doubt most would jump to agree with. Can also argue using Squawka's stats and performance indicators per 90 minutes McTominay was better than Herrera this season regarding overall score and best of the midfield bunch in defensive score.

So while I love stats you can pick and choose them on arguments like this to back up either side.

If we are basing it on what we've watched we can both probably see each-others views on it. You think he's not going to be anything great but will be a solid player, that's fair enough, I like to believe that with him already being a solid player at his breakthrough that he should only improve. It may not happen of course.

All the other midfielders have years on him, so even to be in a discussion with them already I think is promising.

TheDoc

pjohnson wrote: »

How many Average players have played nearly 350 games for us?

You'd swear Fletcher was akin to Bellion/Djemba Djemba/Kleberson the way he's been talked about.

How many games did O'Shea play?

I totally get where Mitch is coming from. Injuries and illness aside, Fletcher was a nice player to have in a squad, and a player that was reliable, but also complimented others in the team.

But it's a stretch labelling him a quality player.

It's ok to call a spade a spade, it's not disrespecting him, nor is it saying he wasnt important.

Also get what Mitch means about McTominany. It feels a bit forced and pushed. The Cynic in me did toy with the idea it's Jose taking on the issue of him and youth, or their being some alternative motive, because Scott is a nice player, looked solid in his appearances, but hardly something I'm going to get excited about. And look if we gets real, he came into the team replacing Pogba when Mourinho wanted to send a message, so there is that as well.

Should say I'm just saying where I see Mitch is coming from. I'm personally taking it all at face value and the manager just felt compelled to reward him for his contribution this season and what is likely his apitude in training. And in fairness wasnt easy for him coming into the team the way he did but testament to the character he has shown thus far.

Could also be one of those player/manager bonds also. The two might really see eye to eye on everything and McTominay could well become a growing presence if he executes what the manager wnats. And thats fine. As our own twitter commentary said, the manager specifically requested this award during the week, we don't have a managers player of the year award (So our twitter account said anyway)

TheDoc

yabadabado wrote: »

I thought he played the majority of the games this season from LW?

No harm playing Sanchez on the right for a few games now to see what he does.

I'd happily take Robben on a free if he was available.

I could well be wrong.

I'm just basing this of a few bits and pieces I was reading off him lately which could be misleading to me. He popped up on my Twitterfeed over the weekend cutting in from the right and whipping a rocket with his left(or might have been last weekend?)

Cantona's Collars

More transfer gossip from Miguel Delaney.

https://twitter.com/IndyFootball/status/991664078211952641?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redcafe.net%2Fthreads%2Ftransfer-tweets-2017-18.434164%2Fpage-221

"Manchester United target Fred and Sergej Milinkovic-Savic as Jose Mourinho plans summer midfield overhaul."

Mitch Connor

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

More transfer gossip from Miguel Delaney.

https://twitter.com/IndyFootball/status/991664078211952641?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redcafe.net%2Fthreads%2Ftransfer-tweets-2017-18.434164%2Fpage-221

"Manchester United target Fred and Sergej Milinkovic-Savic as Jose Mourinho plans summer midfield overhaul."

hmmmm - signing both of those is surely only with pogba out the door? especially Savic.

yabadabado

TheDoc wrote: »

I could well be wrong.

I'm just basing this of a few bits and pieces I was reading off him lately which could be misleading to me. He popped up on my Twitterfeed over the weekend cutting in from the right and whipping a rocket with his left(or might have been last weekend?)

Watched them vs Dortmund and he played out the right. He was subbed off at HT

bangkok

'Fellaini: Utd wrong over contract talks'

http://www.skysports.com/share/11355896

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

hmmmm - signing both of those is surely only with pogba out the door? especially Savic.

Hopefully its just carrick and fellaini replacements

jayo26

Mitch Connor wrote: »

hmmmm - signing both of those is surely only with pogba out the door? especially Savic.

Noway savic would be the perfect type player to play In midfield beside matic and pogba id love us to sign him.