Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

GSPfan

Adamocovic wrote: »

The man hasn't even left Spurs yet and you're discussing his departure from Madrid :pac:

It's speculation my friend. I want an apology in 2020 when this happens.

Mitch Connor

i think part of people's issue is only wanting a manager who has won a boat load.

The leaves:

Mourinho.
Pep.
Allegri.

Really, who else won qualify going by trophies won, which is the big criticism of Poch.

Jupp Heynckes - retering.
Wenger - done.
Ancellotti - meh, not a fan.
Conte?

I have to think United will need to take a chance on a manager based on the football philosphy and style along with relative performance.

Simone would clearly be linked - but he's sides play just as defensive as Jose. They are built on defending and hitting quick.

For me, Poch would be the number one pick.
Maurizio Sarri has Napoli playing stunning football.

Don't see United sacking Jose anyway, given he only just signed a new contract.

GSPfan

Champions League Qualification = Manager keeps his job.

Jose is going nowehere unless he decides to pack it in.

sky88

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Just curious to the people who want Jose gone or will do if it's same next time season.

Who do you replace Him with?

id be in the jose out camp myself as i dont think we will improve anymore under him but i would say im always going to veer that way as i never wanted him in the 1st place.

except for poch (who i think will be at madrid) im not sure who there is really anchlotti or zidanne without taking a bigger risk

i dont think he will be sacked tbh

TheDoc

GSPfan wrote: »

But for £3 million and as a replacement for Phil Jones who never plays anyway?

Smalling, Rojo, Bailly and Lindeloff.

Think I've rather the likes of Fosu-Mensah back and see how he goes in our team, or promote another academy player doing well, then bring back someone that wasn't good enough once.

TheDoc

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

What about Zidane actually?

Seems he is in the Enrique camp of people questioning is he actually any use, or did he capitalise on a world class squad in their peak.

He's one of my idols, so I probably wouldn't be objective and love him to manage the club

I don't ever buy into those lines of a manager having an easy ride based on his squad. His trophy haul, so early in his career, is mighty impressive.

A world class midfielder in his day...who is French...that might be handy for something :P

Drumpot

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm starting to wonder if Pochetino is the closest thing I can see to Ferguson. He's a guy who by his own admission idolised Ferguson, and he has a lot of similarities.

I find the put down of him not winning anything obscure and odd. He's consistently overachieving with Totenham, is a modern coach that not only can construct a pattern of play through the team, but also in attack. Has shown he is flexible tactically and stylistically.

He's a very impressive manager in my eyes. That he hasn't won anything is a weird thing to put against him.

Totenham have been a nothing team in my lifetime. Pochetino has come in and made them actual contenders, to the point where people are actually questioning why isn't he winning anything.

What people don't seem to realise when they use this stick to beat him with, is that they are literally paying him a massive compliment as opposed to the critiscm they think they are making.

When I see Spurs play, I see a reflection of a manager who is flexible, adaptable, can coach an entire team and components and has the backing of all his players. And done it all with less resources than others. He is as ruthless as they come, but has that old school Fergie mentality of you know who he has fallen out with, but hes not going to tell anyone in public.

In saying that who knows what might surface or be around by the time the club calls time on Mourinho. I'd imagine though if he keeps up this level with Totenham, he'd be up the top end of any shortlist.

You see a big part of the problem is that there is no reference point for us to be optimistic with Poch.

He wont be taking over a squad that has any pedigree in winning a league or champions league. He will have a bigger budget. Be expected to manage players with bigger egos. Be expected to manage a bigger squad of quality players. Be expected to yield bigger results in a shorter period of time. Poch has been under little to no pressure for the majority of his tenure at Spurs. Jose has been under pressure since day one, has actually been the most successful manager since SAF and people are still giving him dogs abuse. I don't think people really acknowledge the pressure and uniqueness there is with the United job.

Jose has a proven track record so supporting him for another season is logical. The talk of him being finished is hyperbolic horsesh*t that has no real merit. He won the league at his last club. The "hes finished" comments are very similar to the ones thrown at SAF in early 00s when he was struggling to get united motoring again. People are writing him off after a season and a half (this has been going on since the poor form just before Christmas), so why do people think Poch's first two seasons will go any better ?

In short, whatever way you choose to view it, United have a better chance of succeeding under a manager who has proven he has the qualities to lead a massive club and challenge for top honors.

How Soon Is Now

TheDoc wrote: »

Seems he is in the Enrique camp of people questioning is he actually any use, or did he capitalise on a world class squad in their peak.

He's one of my idols, so I probably wouldn't be objective and love him to manage the club

I don't ever buy into those lines of a manager having an easy ride based on his squad. His trophy haul, so early in his career, is mighty impressive.

A world class midfielder in his day...who is French...that might be handy for something :P

It's not talked about as much as it should but the amount he's won so soon in his managerial career crazy to consider him being sacked no matter how rough things look for them in the league this season.

I'd actually be very curious to see how he would do at a club like united.

sky88

TheDoc wrote: »

Seems he is in the Enrique camp of people questioning is he actually any use, or did he capitalise on a world class squad in their peak.

He's one of my idols, so I probably wouldn't be objective and love him to manage the club

I don't ever buy into those lines of a manager having an easy ride based on his squad. His trophy haul, so early in his career, is mighty impressive.

A world class midfielder in his day...who is French...that might be handy for something :P

to manage the egos at big clubs is task itself and honestly show he and enrique have abilities as a manager regardless of the squads they had

Liam O

TheDoc wrote: »

Smalling, Rojo, Bailly and Lindeloff.

Think I've rather the likes of Fosu-Mensah back and see how he goes in our team, or promote another academy player doing well, then bring back someone that wasn't good enough once.

When Evans left he had (and still has) more to offer than Smalling or (a consistently unfit) Jones imo. Getting rid of Smalling and bringing back Evans would improve the defense for what is likely to be a decent enough net profit.

Drumpot

TheDoc wrote: »

Seems he is in the Enrique camp of people questioning is he actually any use, or did he capitalise on a world class squad in their peak.

He's one of my idols, so I probably wouldn't be objective and love him to manage the club

I don't ever buy into those lines of a manager having an easy ride based on his squad. His trophy haul, so early in his career, is mighty impressive.

A world class midfielder in his day...who is French...that might be handy for something :P

And Frank Riykaard ? Or Avram Grant, or Di matteo ? There are plenty of managers who have proven that a good squad can practically win things on its own. .

Jose has proven himself everywhere he has gone and all different environments. Its quite convenient for people to ignore this when throwing mud at his accomplishments.

Madrid are having a very similar season in the league that Jose’s Chelsea had the season after the won the league and yet Jose was sacked and Madrid actually stuck with their coach!!! Shows what a freak show Chelsea is and that zidane has suffered very similar issues motivating a league winning team.

TheDoc

Drumpot wrote: »

You see a big part of the problem is that there is no reference point for us to be optimistic with Poch.

He wont be taking over a squad that has any pedigree in winning a league or champions league. He will have a bigger budget. Be expected to manage players with bigger egos. Be expected to manage a bigger squad of quality players. Be expected to yield bigger results in a shorter period of time. Poch has been under little to know pressure for the majority of his tenure at Spurs. Jose has been under pressure since day one, has actually been the most successful manager since SAF and people are still giving him dogs abuse. I don't think people really acknowledge the pressure and uniqueness there is with the United job.

Jose has a proven track record so supporting him for another season is logical. The talk of him being finished is hyperbolic horsesh*t that has no real merit. He won the league at his last club. The "hes finished" comments are very similar to the ones thrown at SAF in early 00s when he was struggling to get united motoring again. People are writing him off after a season and a half (this has been going on since the poor form just before Christmas), so why do people think Poch's first two seasons will go any better ?

In short, whatever way you choose to view it, United have a better chance of succeeding under a manager who has proven he has the qualities to lead a massive club and challenge for top honors.

Just to note I took the latter part of Kews post, when he mentioned this time next year.

I don't believe we will remove Jose this summer, and while I partically wouldn't give a ****, I can see why its not a smart move.

I think was is becoming evident is that the managerial merry go round of big club managers is shrinking, and more of them look like they are past their sell by date (Wenger, Mourinho (well depending where you sit), Ancelotti) so obviously these managers need to be replenished with new ones.

Someone at some point needs to take a brave decision on someone outside of the established.

I don't believe our manager post Mourinho will be part of the current establishment personally.

TheDoc

Drumpot wrote: »

And Frank Riykaard ? Or Avram Grant, or Di matteo ? There are plenty of managers who have proven that a good squad can practically win things on its own. .

Jose has proven himself everywhere he has gone and all different environments. Its quite convenient for people to ignore this when throwing mud at his accomplishments.

I don't think anyone ignores this. It's a staple of why there was initial excitement and why he is regarded as a great manager. He's won so much, in different environments and countries.

I don't think anyone questions his accomplishments either?

Think thats going a bit too far. There isn't questions over what he was or did, there is questions over what he is doing now.

Managers don't evade critique because "they did good things before". It's about what is happening currently, and in fairness maybe to a lot of fans, he was hired to bring that success and competitiveness here.

Not to just bleat about how he used to be class

bangkok

sky88 wrote: »

to manage the egos at big clubs is task itself and honestly show he and enrique have abilities as a manager regardless of the squads they had

You mean when messi managed enrique...

https://youtu.be/hQHsvHJ_2Mw

Drumpot

TheDoc wrote: »

Just to note I took the latter part of Kews post, when he mentioned this time next year.

I don't believe we will remove Jose this summer, and while I partically wouldn't give a ****, I can see why its not a smart move.

I think was is becoming evident is that the managerial merry go round of big club managers is shrinking, and more of them look like they are past their sell by date (Wenger, Mourinho (well depending where you sit), Ancelotti) so obviously these managers need to be replenished with new ones.

Someone at some point needs to take a brave decision on someone outside of the established.

I don't believe our manager post Mourinho will be part of the current establishment personally.

Maybe but I think there is a good chance , if nothing else, Jose can help us out together a strong squad. You need only look at how strong that Chelsea said was after he left.

I think he has more focus with signings then the club appears to have.

I wasn’t complaining when we swapped in Sanchez and I can see how it made sense. But it looks now awfully like the Di Maria signing. A player who wanted to join a difffent club but chose united just to move cause they couldn’t get the move they wanted. I Am not saying that’s the case but it’s starting to look like it’s the case.

The clubs signings appear to be lacking proper long term strategy. Moyes, van Gaal and Jose have nothing in common. We can all come up with the clubs Intentions when choosing these coaches but the squad and first team is suffering.

There has been no idenyifiable united style since SAF left because it’s not clear that the owners know what to prioritize. Ironically we actually have a united style that we can point to for the first time since SAF left but it’s just not te syle we want to be associated with.

I’ve said it before that this summers signings need to be all about 1st team progression. The Pogbas can come when the groundwork has been done and the fundamental work ethic of the team is balanced. A quality , CB, CM and A quality RM/RW would make a massive difference. I wouldn’t say no to quality full backs (or Shaw gets himself sorted) but I don’t think they are as big an issue as some people make out.

Drumpot

TheDoc wrote: »

I don't think anyone ignores this. It's a staple of why there was initial excitement and why he is regarded as a great manager. He's won so much, in different environments and countries.

I don't think anyone questions his accomplishments either?

Think thats going a bit too far. There isn't questions over what he was or did, there is questions over what he is doing now.

Managers don't evade critique because "they did good things before". It's about what is happening currently, and in fairness maybe to a lot of fans, he was hired to bring that success and competitiveness here.

Not to just bleat about how he used to be class

The problem with Poch is that he will need time to implement his regime. I don’t see much tolerance for squad building from united fans. Just because it’s Poch, I don’t see fans having much time after 20 months if the football is half decent but he’s made no real inroads to city. I’ve no problem with a coach like Poch but it’s a waste of time if you won’t support them during what might brb a painful exercise in stamping his thing on the club. Considering how impatient fans are with jose who has proven himself st every club thus far , I don’t see how it will be any different.

Unicrons Dad

Alot of United fans are hoping we sign savic from Lazio. He looks a very good player but I think hes more a runner in midfield kinda like what Pogba is supposed to be. I think we need a more passing type of midfielder like a kroos or Verratti
In the summer there are 4 positions i feel are musts

1.Creative deep lying midfielder .Kroos Verratti or Jorginho
2.Right winger Willian or Mahrez
3.Left back Sandro
4.Centre back Alderweireld

Adamocovic

GSPfan wrote: »

It's speculation my friend. I want an apology in 2020 when this happens.

Haha I'll do my best to remember!

adox

I fear we have reached a plateau with Jose and the football seems to getting worse.

I dont think he or the club have any intentions of parting company but I do feel the last couple of weeks may be the beginning of the end for him at Utd.

It will most likely run into next season before he is eventually gone but Id be somewhat surprised if he sees out next season.

TheDoc

Drumpot wrote: »

The problem with Poch is that he will need time to implement his regime. I don’t see much tolerance for squad building from united fans. Just because it’s Poch, I don’t see fans having much time after 20 months if the football is half decent but he’s made no real inroads to city. I’ve no problem with a coach like Poch but it’s a waste of time if you won’t support them during what might brb a painful exercise in stamping his thing on the club. Considering how impatient fans are with jose who has proven himself st every club thus far , I don’t see how it will be any different.

I would suspect that the implementation of the style can be quicker because it fits more into what top players want to do. They would be excited for it and more interested in it, and maybe more in line with their own outlooks and beliefs on how they should be playing.

Unless it transpired to be a Moyes level "oh jesus this was a mistake" I'd imagine we would quickly see the, and most importantly, what the plan is. Once you know what the manager wants, I think as fans we tend to be more patient with it.

A problem Jose has is there is no plan. So its constant questions. No one knows what he wants, what he intends to do or what his vision is. There is an arguement there just isn't one. Buy better players, throw them in the mix, see if it works any better.

Pep had backing through a tough first season because he had a plan. Fans could see the plan and could see what the endgame was. We could all see that too. It was only Pep haters and a defensive English press that slated him, but most people knew what was coming.

Klopp had the backing and patience because everyone knew the plan, what he wanted, what was to come, and the output will look like.

I think Pochetino would get that same benefit. And in fairness Jose has got that same benefit of the doubt. Van Gaal got it too. But when you get to a point where the fans dont see an endgame, they don't see any evolution or progression and it looks a mess, thats when the pressure mounts and the questions get asked.

Like I said, I think it "could" be massive when Jose mentioned after Brighton about moving the ball faster and through the lines. If this is a genuine overarching change and thing he will coach for the remainder of the season, that will buy patience. I hate the guy, but I'd sit back and be like, "Right, I know what he wants to do, lets see how it goes".

If it was just to beat Brighton at home, well that's laughable. Like Sevilla. You don't need to accomodate for every single bloody opponent and countering their strengths. There are some games where he should be nearly just saying "Out you go boys, enjoy yourself, make sure we get the win". Sometimes managers can make things too complicated.

I'll be watching our next few games with massive interest to see how we play. Do our defenders pass into midfield quickly, do our midfielders quickly move and drive, spread the ball wide, into Lukaku, are we moving and moving fast.

Or, do our midfielders have to drop into the defensive line to pickup the ball.

That will be the telling point I'll look out for to see if we are making a change genuinelly, or is it the same old same old.

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

I fear we have reached a plateau with Jose and the football seems to getting worse.

I dont think he or the club have any intentions of parting company but I do feel the last couple of weeks may be the beginning of the end for him at Utd.

It will most likely run into next season before he is eventually gone but Id be somewhat surprised if he sees out next season.

You'd nearly hope he would realise this. That his trusted coaching staff he has been with for 15 years realise this. That he himself, or those around him say "We need to try something different".

It's not beyond salvaging, probably just requires, unlike say Van Gaal, to swallow some pride, accept the plan isn't working, and make a new one.

Think this is where managers fall down in fan perception. They think that throwing their hand up and going "Listen guys, I thought this would work, it hasn't, so I am going to try something else. Might take a bit to take shape, but lets see how this goes" will result in fan revolt, chants of you dont know what your doing and it being an admission of failure or weakness.

Maybe I'm in isolation, but as much as I literally despise this person, if he sat in his press conference and announced "Look this hasn't worked how I thought it would, I've gone back to the drawing board, and I'm going to try something else" I absolutely hand on heart swear I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and see it through

He's got credit in the bank. He's won two trophies, he has an illustrious career of trophies behind him. Ferguson rebuild squads, changed tactics, implemented new things, and we all trusted him. But we saw what he was doing, we could see the plan and we all trusted him. Jose needs to get people trusting him, that he's not going to pigheadedly persist with his current plan and cause an implosion around him

Cantona's Collars

Jaysus,the romantic notions of Evans and his time at United. In truth,he was just ok. Decent games combined with horror shows,no better than what we currently have. How many times did we see simple long balls sail over his head and goals or saves being the result as he stood there waving his arms.
Liverpool for all their laughing at "hoofball" did exactly what Jose did to them recently with Lukaku. Long balls aimed towards Evans as they knew they'd get chances,lo and behold,they did. That really pissed me off about Evans,the simple things were made to look difficult.

Cantona's Collars

Possibly posted already..

http://www.football365.com/news/man-united-fear-struggling-sanchez-is-the-new-di-maria

Chris Wheeler of the Daily Mail claims that Sanchez is ‘miserable’, ‘unhappy’ and ‘isolated’ at Old Trafford, and ‘often eats alone in the canteen’.

He adds that ‘some say’ Sanchez is having ‘second thoughts’ about joining United, and his current situation is similar to that of Di Maria.

The winger spent just one season at United after joining in summer 2014, leaving within a year after failing to settle at the club.

“He looks like someone who doesn’t want to be here,” Wheeler quotes a source as saying.

“The whole thing doesn’t seem right and he looks like a lost boy. It was the same with Di Maria.”

Lord TSC

Gotta love international week...

Trigger

Chris wheeler knows the square root of fûck all

GSPfan

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Jaysus,the romantic notions of Evans and his time at United. In truth,he was just ok. Decent games combined with horror shows,no better than what we currently have. How many times did we see simple long balls sail over his head and goals or saves being the result as he stood there waving his arms.
Liverpool for all their laughing at "hoofball" did exactly what Jose did to them recently with Lukaku. Long balls aimed towards Evans as they knew they'd get chances,lo and behold,they did. That really pissed me off about Evans,the simple things were made to look difficult.

So you’re saying there’s a chance?

bangkok

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Possibly posted already..

http://www.football365.com/news/man-united-fear-struggling-sanchez-is-the-new-di-maria

Chris Wheeler of the Daily Mail claims that Sanchez is ‘miserable’, ‘unhappy’ and ‘isolated’ at Old Trafford, and ‘often eats alone in the canteen’.

He adds that ‘some say’ Sanchez is having ‘second thoughts’ about joining United, and his current situation is similar to that of Di Maria.

The winger spent just one season at United after joining in summer 2014, leaving within a year after failing to settle at the club.

“He looks like someone who doesn’t want to be here,” Wheeler quotes a source as saying.

“The whole thing doesn’t seem right and he looks like a lost boy. It was the same with Di Maria.”

Maybe thats the way he is.

Liam Brady said he was a bit of a loner at arsenal. Didnt really mix with the players and did a lot of things on his own but it was tolerated as he was so good

Cotts72

No thanks to Evans, he should have been first choice in his last season but was frustratingly poor! Much prefer, new CB, rojo, bailly Lindelof, Jones, TFM, tuanzebe

Mitch Connor

Cotts72 wrote: »

No thanks to Evans, he should have been first choice in his last season but was frustratingly poor! Much prefer, new CB, rojo, bailly Lindelof, Jones, TFM, tuanzebe

I reckon Tuanzebe goes on loan to Villa again next season, especially if they get promoted. (I agree with the point of your post)

Quandary

Ashley Young saying Shaw could be one of the worlds best and has all the talent but needs to work harder to reach his potential.

"He's a fantastic player," Young said.

"I want to see Luke do well," he added. "He just has to get his head down and work.

"I feel he can be one of the best in the world, like I say he has just got to work hard."

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/43478838


His drive and work ethic are once again being called into question.

There is no smoke without fire, his manager, previous managers and now a senior team mate is reiterating that he needs to work harder. He has the talent but he clearly isn't working hard enough.

Cantona's Collars

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Jaysus,the romantic notions of Evans and his time at United. In truth,he was just ok. Decent games combined with horror shows,no better than what we currently have. How many times did we see simple long balls sail over his head and goals or saves being the result as he stood there waving his arms.
Liverpool for all their laughing at "hoofball" did exactly what Jose did to them recently with Lukaku. Long balls aimed towards Evans as they knew they'd get chances,lo and behold,they did. That really pissed me off about Evans,the simple things were made to look difficult.

Agree.

We have enough 'prone to a fúck-up' CBs on our roster, enough who are 'good on their day, in fairness' without resigning Evans.

Let's be honest. The very best CBs in the world are prone to a fúck-up every now and then, so that shouldn't be the sole reason for not signing a CB.

However, fans are getting frustrated with Smalling and Jones as it is. The last thing we need in defence is to wind the clock back to 2014/15 and reintroduce Jonny Evans to that already inconsistent (be it through form or injury) situation.

No harm to Jonny, but we need to look forward and not back when it comes to a new CB this Summer. It also has to be someone more in the 'can definitely defend' category like Bailly, rather than the 'can they defend consistently?' category like Lindelof.

All that said, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Jose saw something in Evans.

Jose and Ed lounging in the Lowry apartment, sharing a bong...

Jose: I need somesing now, somesing more than the football, to help bring the fans back on my side. I've even lost adox, he throws me away with Van Gaal and the shít Scottish one.

Ed: I saw that alright, and Future Guy isn't happy either.

Jose: See my predicament?

Ed: Well, what about Ronaldo? Resign him in the Summer, I brief the press this week that efforts are underway to 'Bring Ronaldo Home'. Bang! The fans will love you again.

Jose: I don't think so. Ronaldo, maybe that time has passed now. I will never manage a better Ronaldo than I did in Madrid. United fans will be happy for one day, then upset for the rest when they see how poor Ronaldo is at wing-back.

Ed: Ok, well I hear that there's a good possibility that Toni Kro...

Jose: BUT! You are along the right path Edward Woodward. Maybe we cannot make the fans happy by bringing Ronaldo home, but do you have any information on Jonny Evans' contract with West Bromwich Albion?

Ed (choking on bong): Huh?

Jose (standing up to an epiphany): Yes, we reward the fans and we... bring Jonny Evans...home!

Ed: I wasn't aware of any fan desire or effort to bring Jonny...

Jose: This is a great idea, yes? See I tell you, Rui gets the best shít. He won't even tell me where it comes from.

Rui: Any chance I could get a hit off that, lads?

I need a game.

DM_7

That just translates as Ashley Young seeks new United deal

Quandary

Quandary wrote: »

Ashley Young saying Shaw could be one of the worlds best and has all the talent but needs to work harder to reach his potential.



http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/43478838


His drive and work ethic are once again being called into question.

There is no smoke without fire, his manager, previous managers and now a senior team mate is reiterating that he needs to work harder. He has the talent but he clearly isn't working hard enough.

Can now add Ashley Young to a list of teammates (current and former), managers (current and former) and fitness coaches who have said very similar things about Luke having worked close with him.

I highly doubt that these people are meeting up in a coven to concoct and send out this narrative.

If it walks like a duck, if it talks like a duck...Luke Shaw isn't giving his all and needs to do better for himself never mind his club.

Liam McPoyle

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can now add Ashley Young to a list of teammates (current and former), managers (current and former) and fitness coaches who have said very similar things about Luke having worked close with him.

I highly doubt that these people are meeting up in a coven to concoct and send out this narrative.

If it walks like a duck, if it talks like a duck...Luke Shaw isn't giving his all and needs to do better for himself never mind his club.

He's got an arse like a duck too tbf.

StringerBell

Bottom line yes, I'd take Evans at that price and hope that his time away from the club has given him the mentality needed to thrive as the first choice centre back of a club with top ambitions.

He had his chance and was not what he needed to be at the time, he left to be first choice as a very good defender but not in any way irreplaceable.

I'm not convinced of him now tbh when you see some of the stupid things he still gets involved in, but if we are shipping out Smalling and Jones for example (which I don't think we will) I'd have Evans as a squad option at worst if he was willing to do that, which he wouldn't be imho.

I just don't see it happening I guess.

You know what, the more I think about it the less I'd want him back, cheap or not.

So new bottom line, no

StringerBell

As an aside, I really do hope poch goes to Madrid next year when they give zidane the bullet.

The revisionism will be in full flow if and when he shockingly fails to cut the mustard.

I remember the first time I heard how good Rodgers, no martinez, no pochettino (sorry they are somewhat interchangeable in my head) was and were being heralded as the next big thing. Couldn't understand the confidence then, don't now.

Suppose it's why some people don't have any confidence in mourinho and some do. Opinions and all that.

The most irritating part for me is I actually like pochettino for the most part as a manager, sure he has flaw as they all do and big question marks which some do .

Drumpot

TheDoc wrote: »

I would suspect that the implementation of the style can be quicker because it fits more into what top players want to do. They would be excited for it and more interested in it, and maybe more in line with their own outlooks and beliefs on how they should be playing.

Unless it transpired to be a Moyes level "oh jesus this was a mistake" I'd imagine we would quickly see the, and most importantly, what the plan is. Once you know what the manager wants, I think as fans we tend to be more patient with it.

A problem Jose has is there is no plan. So its constant questions. No one knows what he wants, what he intends to do or what his vision is. There is an arguement there just isn't one. Buy better players, throw them in the mix, see if it works any better.

Pep had backing through a tough first season because he had a plan. Fans could see the plan and could see what the endgame was. We could all see that too. It was only Pep haters and a defensive English press that slated him, but most people knew what was coming.

Klopp had the backing and patience because everyone knew the plan, what he wanted, what was to come, and the output will look like.

I think Pochetino would get that same benefit. And in fairness Jose has got that same benefit of the doubt. Van Gaal got it too. But when you get to a point where the fans dont see an endgame, they don't see any evolution or progression and it looks a mess, thats when the pressure mounts and the questions get asked.

Like I said, I think it "could" be massive when Jose mentioned after Brighton about moving the ball faster and through the lines. If this is a genuine overarching change and thing he will coach for the remainder of the season, that will buy patience. I hate the guy, but I'd sit back and be like, "Right, I know what he wants to do, lets see how it goes".

If it was just to beat Brighton at home, well that's laughable. Like Sevilla. You don't need to accomodate for every single bloody opponent and countering their strengths. There are some games where he should be nearly just saying "Out you go boys, enjoy yourself, make sure we get the win". Sometimes managers can make things too complicated.

I'll be watching our next few games with massive interest to see how we play. Do our defenders pass into midfield quickly, do our midfielders quickly move and drive, spread the ball wide, into Lukaku, are we moving and moving fast.

Or, do our midfielders have to drop into the defensive line to pickup the ball.

That will be the telling point I'll look out for to see if we are making a change genuinelly, or is it the same old same old.

I suppose I feel like I do see Jose’s plan. The problem is that some of the players bought don’t seem to be working out for some reason.

He’s strengthened the spine - Bailly, Matic, Lukaku. With players who appear to have some mettle to perform to a high standard consistently even if the team is not playing great.

His tactics at Chelsea where similar when he came back the second time. Very defensive and all about results over performances, as he gets in the players he feels he needs to be the most effective.

The big difference I see is that we all expected 2nd season Jose to kick in and all would be golden. I personally believe this didn’t happen for two reasons. One is that the squad he inherited was in a worse state then any top club he has ever taken over. It particularly lacked the characters and leaders he usually relied on to drive his teams, had a Squad low in confidence, and a Squad who had no championship experience/pedigree. I also think that the club hasn’t always signed what the team necessarily needed.

I think next season is the one where fans can realistically see either improvements or stagnation. A good summer of £300mil+ with all targets gotte is a must. City are not afraid to spend these levels for Pep so we need to match it if we expect Pep results.

yabadabado

I wouldn't take Jonny Evans back on a free. He isn't good enough to be first choice and that is the only CB be should be buying. A top class CB to build a partnership with Bailly.

Bailly,New CB, Rojo, Lindelof, Jones, Smalling.

I'd imagine if a new CB joins Jones or Smalling would leave to get games elsewhere.

It's not squad players United need it's players who will come in and instally improve the starting 11.

Trigger

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Agree.

We have enough 'prone to a fúck-up' CBs on our roster, enough who are 'good on their day, in fairness' without resigning Evans.

Let's be honest. The very best CBs in the world are prone to a fúck-up every now and then, so that shouldn't be the sole reason for not signing a CB.

However, fans are getting frustrated with Smalling and Jones as it is. The last thing we need in defence is to wind the clock back to 2014/15 and reintroduce Jonny Evans to that already inconsistent (be it through form or injury) situation.

No harm to Jonny, but we need to look forward and not back when it comes to a new CB this Summer. It also has to be someone more in the 'can definitely defend' category like Bailly, rather than the 'can they defend consistently?' category like Lindelof.

All that said, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Jose saw something in Evans.

I need a game.

Forget the music man, concentrate on the screenwriting

yabadabado

yabadabado wrote: »

I wouldn't take Jonny Evans back on a free. He isn't good enough to be first choice and that is the only CB be should be buying. A top class CB to build a partnership with Bailly.

Bailly,New CB, Rojo, Lindelof, Jones, Smalling.

I'd imagine if a new CB joins Jones or Smalling would leave to get games elsewhere.

It's not squad players United need it's players who will come in and instally improve the starting 11.

While I agree with you if for some reason there was going to me a few CBs leave in the summer Evans on cheap would be a good 4th option if happy to play the role.

paulbok

GSPfan wrote: »

It's speculation my friend. I want an apology in 2020 when this happens.

Screenshot, and saved

yabadabado

Deleted User wrote: »

While I agree with you if for some reason there was going to me a few CBs leave in the summer Evans on cheap would be a good 4th option if happy to play the role.

I think a new CB will be signed and even if 2 CBs left Evans would be 5th choice imo. I'd rather have TFM or Tuanzebe as a 5th choice option.

deaddonkey15

Mitch Connor wrote: »

i think part of people's issue is only wanting a manager who has won a boat load.

The leaves:

Mourinho.
Pep.
Allegri.

Really, who else won qualify going by trophies won, which is the big criticism of Poch.

Jupp Heynckes - retering.
Wenger - done.
Ancellotti - meh, not a fan.
Conte?

I have to think United will need to take a chance on a manager based on the football philosphy and style along with relative performance.

Simone would clearly be linked - but he's sides play just as defensive as Jose. They are built on defending and hitting quick.

For me, Poch would be the number one pick.
Maurizio Sarri has Napoli playing stunning football.

Don't see United sacking Jose anyway, given he only just signed a new contract.

Good post. Many of those dismissing Pochetinno as he hasn't won a trophy would do well to remember that the list of trophy winning managers that could potentially come in after Mourinho is very short indeed. You could add Klopp, Simeone and Emery to your list as well, however I doubt many would be too excited about any of those coming to Old Trafford.

I said it before but there will inevitably be a new generation of managers in charge of the top clubs over the next 10-15 years. Personally I think Pochetinno looks very likely to be part of that new generation.

StringerBell

Can I ask why though?

For example, why would you consider poch to be any better/more impressive then say Rodgers during his time at Liverpool when they were genuine title challengers? What sets him apart even?

I'm not looking to change anybody's opinion for the record, it's practically impossible on the internet.

Andrew Beef

I had the pleasure of spending some time with a Manchester United player today. In his view, Mourinho is “90% great, but 10% horrendous”. He reckons the club are on the right track, and that the gap to City isn’t as big as it appears.

StringerBell

Now, not that I have any specific reason to doubt you.....but do you honestly expect anybody to credit that?

J. Marston

We're setting up a women's team.

https://twitter.com/SkyKaveh/status/976585913504542723

Trigger

StringerBell wrote: »

Now, not that I have any specific reason to doubt you.....but do you honestly expect anybody to credit that?

It’s mata’s Father all over again

Liam McPoyle

Andrew Beef wrote: »

I had the pleasure of spending some time with a Manchester United player today. In his view, Mourinho is “90% great, but 10% horrendous”. He reckons the club are on the right track, and that the gap to City isn’t as big as it appears.

Don't tell me Jose is using alternative tables too?

secman

Andrew Beef wrote: »

I had the pleasure of spending some time with a Manchester United player today. In his view, Mourinho is “90% great, but 10% horrendous”. He reckons the club are on the right track, and that the gap to City isn’t as big as it appears.

I know you have been waiting for someone to ask the obvious question... hook
.line ... sinker... ... Who.. where.... when.... how...?