Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

TheDoc

Will I Am Not wrote: »

I’d probably just say don’t guess or imagine a tone from text. I wasn’t getting “spikey”.

If he loses the dressing room it’s all over for him. If he loses a player or 2 it’s all over for them and that’s the way it should be really.

That was me saying looking forward to the summer.

I's clearly going to be a "thing" when Martial leaves in the thread

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Not signed yet, but seemingly we are very interested.

My worry is that he is closer to Pogba in style than we need, going by what some others are saying about.

Aparently he is very very talented - have seen people say he is similar to pogba but arguably better. But 80million for a player similar to what we have already spend (a little more than) that on seems... like more bad planning from United.

Maybe Jose sees a more deep lying passer in him - but seemingly he saw that in Pogba and has failed to get that out of him.

Maybe he's going to go balls to the wall with two of those style of players with Matic sitting behind them :rolleyes:

pjohnson

TheDoc wrote: »

Maybe he's going to go balls to the wall with two of those style of players with Matic sitting behind them :rolleyes:

Or simply Milinkovic-Savic (SMS?) will be an alternative to Pogba. Might force Pogba to have less woeful games if he knows he could be replaced. Marchisio was breathing down his neck at Juve.

jayo26

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Not signed yet, but seemingly we are very interested.

My worry is that he is closer to Pogba in style than we need, going by what some others are saying about.

Aparently he is very very talented - have seen people say he is similar to pogba but arguably better. But 80million for a player similar to what we have already spend (a little more than) that on seems... like more bad planning from United.

Maybe Jose sees a more deep lying passer in him - but seemingly he saw that in Pogba and has failed to get that out of him.

He isn't similar to pogba so don't worry Mitch

I believe is an old school midfielder he is a hard working player. He is not as gifted as pogba technically but he will score more goals then pogba and will defend better then pogba.

A midfield 3 would have matic sitting behind savic and pogba.

pjohnson

jayo26 wrote: »

He isn't similar to pogba so don't worry Mitch

I believe is an old school midfielder he is a hard working player. He is not as gifted as pogba technically but he will score more goals then pogba and will defend better then pogba.

A midfield 3 would have matic sitting behind savic and pogba.

Herrera stepping in for SMS when we need some dark stuff :P

jimmytwotimes 2013

Reports that Fergie is awake and talking to family will be the best news if true.

Everyone willing him on.

Mitch Connor

jayo26 wrote: »

He isn't similar to pogba so don't worry Mitch

I believe is an old school midfielder he is a hard working player. He is not as gifted as pogba technically but he will score more goals then pogba and will defend better then pogba.

A midfield 3 would have matic sitting behind savic and pogba.

might be the case alright - just seen others say he is bascially another pogba.

Another 'moments' player that will thrive in a 3 man midfield that is built around him and allows him to express himself.

Lord TSC

Savic strikes me as a more skilful Herrera tbh, which would work well in a three man mid.

Meanwhile,

[RMC] Mourinho wants Martial to stay at Old Trafford and believes the 22-year-old will thrive if he leads the line. Manchester United have promised Anthony Martial he will play as a centre forward if he stays at the club next season, in a gesture unlikely to be enough to convince the player to stay.

jayo26

Mitch Connor wrote: »

might be the case alright - just seen others say he is bascially another pogba.

Another 'moments' player that will thrive in a 3 man midfield that is built around him and allows him to express himself.

See they are just generalizing a player just because he is excellent at going forward don't mean he needs to exress himself. The few times I seen him play this year he looks like a midfield version of vidic he is really good defensively and at breaking up attacks but he can charge forward and unleash a shot too.

Cantona's Collars

Lukaku putting the work in at training.

'He's one of the first in for the warm-up on the bikes and is then hitting the gym for an hour after normal training has finished.

'They say he is more ripped than normal at present and knows he isn't going to have a full pre-season this summer.

'He is trying to kill two birds with one stone. Jose is obviously loving it, as it is setting a firm message out to the others.
He's earned the nick name Rocky due to his dedication.

Trigger

Lord TSC wrote: »

Savic strikes me as a more skilful Herrera tbh, which would work well in a three man mid.

Meanwhile,

[RMC] Mourinho wants Martial to stay at Old Trafford and believes the 22-year-old will thrive if he leads the line. Manchester United have promised Anthony Martial he will play as a centre forward if he stays at the club next season, in a gesture unlikely to be enough to convince the player to stay.

Doubt Mourinho would promise anything, but if we get 2 fullbacks and Savic we could play 442 diamond with Sanchez behind 2.. we have played it a few times this season. Though the fullbacks are essential

bangkok

I presume carrick will start the game this weekend?

deaddonkey15

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

We have talent but as I said but all our attackers seem to want to cut inside and our attack becomes so narrow. We rely too heavily on fullbacks to provide width and see one who dances over the ball before passing it back or smashing it off a defender. Young on the other side keeps cutting back to cross with his right.
Unless Jose physically runs along the touchline holding the players hands, there's not much else he can do to stop them all running central.
Look back on any given game and watch Jose,you can see him instructing the players to move faster and give width but they keep doing the same thing regardless of what he says.
The team still lacks balance with the attack concentrated on the left so hopefully this summer will see that addressed.
As for Sterling,yes he's improved under Pep but he still has the traits that stop him becoming top drawer,who would you trust in a one on one? Rashford or Sterling?
Remember that Rashford is still only 19 but coaching alone doesn't account for poor decisions at times.

Playing left footed players on the left and right footed players on the right would be a start.

TheDoc

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Playing left footed players on the left and right footed players on the right would be a start.

It's pretty common to have inverted wingers or inside forwards and that is fine, but you need balance. Someone needs to maintain width.

You know this all probably would be working out fine if

a) The attack was coached in patterns and movement, and not left entirely to their own devices
b) Our fullbacks werent absolute dog **** in attack.

I'll give Jose some credit, his buildup until the final third is immaculate. We generate so much space out wide it's crazy.

Surely the whole point of buying Lukaku, is utilising that space, so that proper fullbacks can whip balls into him to bury.

jayo26

Some dude had a go at evra for not wishing the boss a speedy recovery

image upload without registration

Cantona's Collars

Lukaku may start coaching everyone else on how to cross a ball. He's the focus of the attack and the best crosser of a ball.
I was watching the Classico the other night and laughing to myself at Suarez goal. If that was Valencia running up the right wing, he'd stop,do his little dance and pass it back leaving Suarez seething with frustration in the penalty area.

Lithium93_

Deleted User wrote: »

Just caught up on the Fergie thread. You can't spell 'smackdown' without 'mac'.

Beautiful.

It's a shame that it had to be done, you'd think given what the thread is/was about, that common sense would prevail and people would cop the f on.

Will I Am Not

Enjoy your day and don’t forget to love this game :pac:

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

You say no amount of coaching will help a player if he doesnt look up...but that is exactly what the coach is meant to do. Make the player aware to look up. Look how raheem sterling has been coached for example...

Also you say pogba looked up and everyone is in the same 15 square yard area? Again that is a coaching and tactics issue

Ah ya that old chesnut Pep taught Sterling how to turn so he became a class player, he should have spent the time teaching him to shoot. (and yes i know he has scored lots of goals but he is still a poor finisher)

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Playing left footed players on the left and right footed players on the right would be a start.

TheDoc wrote: »

It's pretty common to have inverted wingers or inside forwards and that is fine, but you need balance. Someone needs to maintain width.

You know this all probably would be working out fine if

a) The attack was coached in patterns and movement, and not left entirely to their own devices
b) Our fullbacks werent absolute dog **** in attack.

I'll give Jose some credit, his buildup until the final third is immaculate. We generate so much space out wide it's crazy.

Surely the whole point of buying Lukaku, is utilising that space, so that proper fullbacks can whip balls into him to bury.

A left footed lb and a rb who can actually pass cross run with a ball would fix a lot of this

adox

I think we certainly need two new full backs, especially right back.

Another midfielder at least and a right sided attacker.

Would like to see the following moved on:

Valencia
Shaw
Blind
Damian
Mata

I think Martial will be gone, either by choice or pushed. Fellaini will most likely go as well it seems so I do fear that the list above won’t be all moved.

Andrew Beef

Fair play to Evra...decent comeback.

“Why haven’t you tweeted your best wishes to Sir Alex?”

“Because he’s not on Twitter, I’ve been texting him and ringing Lady Cathy instead.”

bangkok

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah ya that old chesnut Pep taught Sterling how to turn so he became a class player, he should have spent the time teaching him to shoot. (and yes i know he has scored lots of goals but he is still a poor finisher)

You cant call him a poor finisher when he has scored 23 goals this season.. he has clearly improved in that department

Andrew Beef

Rumours today of a deal which would see Martial heading to Stamford Bridge with Willian heading in the opposite direction. It’s a big call, but I’d back Jose on that one.

billyhead

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Rumours today of a deal which would see Martial heading to Stamford Bridge with Willian heading in the opposite direction. It’s a big call, but I’d back Jose on that one.

Wouldn't agree with this.If Martial joined Chelsea and fulfilled his potential it would be a huge kick in the teeth to United and Jose. It could come back to haunt us. Sell him abroad if we have to.

deaddonkey15

Deleted User wrote: »

A left footed lb and a rb who can actually pass cross run with a ball would fix a lot of this

A right footed right winger with pace would go a long way too.

jayo26

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Rumours today of a deal which would see Martial heading to Stamford Bridge with Willian heading in the opposite direction. It’s a big call, but I’d back Jose on that one.

Horrible deal unless they were buying martial. Willian is a good player on his day but way too inconsistent and he is too old for the level of player he is no thanks.

Cantona's Collars

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Jose didn't say anything controversial after the game. Rashford ran into space and Martial was unmarked on the penalty spot calling for the pass yet Rashford dawdled and allowed 3 defenders to close him down. No amount of coaching will help if a player doesn't look up and play a simple ball.
With regards to the rest of the team,it was an all too familiar scenario of going through the motions. How many times have we seen Jose looking exasperated on the sidelines as the players don't push up or play constant square balls. Friday night clearly showed the need for dedicated wingers especially on the right, everyone wanted to be a number 10 and made it so easy for Brighton.

Pogba was criticised for holding the ball too long in deep positions but up ahead of him, everyone seemed to occupy the same 15 square yard area with them all being marked and nobody running the channels or pushing out wide so he had no out ball.

It ended up looking like a mixture of a LVG and Moyes performance rather than a Jose performance where his team bullies 'smaller' teams.
If this "ah sure" attitude continues it's hard to see them winning the FA Cup.

I criticised Pogba in a reply to GSPfan over the weekend, and described a situation which goes against the bolded part above. No need to read it, just reposting the relevant part to show that I've been discussing this rather than suddenly popping up to say 'Hey CC, you're fúcking wrong man!'

I've since made a gif and posted it below...

Deleted User wrote: »

That reminds me of another instance with Pogba and poor decision making in the Brighton game. Not just 'poor', but also quite strange. It ended with some kind of exchange and wave of arms between Pogba and Mata, and a waste of a rare promising move.

It happened at 38:30 in the first half, for anyone who knows where to search for football highlights. I'd recommend any of you to take a look at it and try to explain to me what is the rationale behind it. After a throw-in on the left, Pogba receives the ball in a DM position, makes an effective turn of a Brighton player and advances a few yards with time to look up and pick a pass.

Meanwhile out on the right, Mata is in space in an advanced position with Darmian bursting forward for an overlap. A nice 2v1 developing out there, with Martial and Rashford also looking to come into play near Pogba centrally. Pogba instead turns and looks back to his left and plods it to Ashley Young who isn't even the safe option as he has a Brighton player closing him down.

It was just a strange sequence of passing and decision making. After doing the hard work of turning the player and advancing the ball and sparking a potential attack, Pogba then retreated the play and ignored good forward options he clearly saw.

It was a decision akin to trying to see out a narrow lead in the final minutes of a closely-fought game, rather than pursuing a badly needed goal at 0-0 against Brighton.

This is the largest gif I could embed here...




Link to a larger gif where you can see Darmian and Mata waving and calling for the ball -

http://i.imgur.com/vtS5ih8.gifv


Rather than look to burn Pogba or any individual, I'm just wondering why there is that disconnect between our players. In that situation, Pogba saw those players advancing and in space but chose not to play the ball. They remonstrated in the aftermath.

In another instance, Rashford saw Martial in a prime position to put the team into a 0-1 lead, but chose not to. The players remonstrated in the aftermath.

These aren't even 'new players' like Lukaku and Sanchez who can be afforded that first season to settle into a new team and style of play. These are players who have been training and playing together at United for almost 2 full seasons now. Then when you take Pogba out of it and look at Mata, Martial and Rashford, it's 3 full seasons at the club and they still struggle to find and/or choose the correct pass to each other.

Pogba was far from the worst of our problems against Brighton imo, but I reckon some of his faults were down to himself rather than a lack of forward options.

S.M.B.

I believe the rumour is Martial in exchange for Willian + £80 million which sounds like nonsense to me.

Out of curiosity, who would be willing to take another 2/3 years of not really challenging for a PL or CL title if it meant that in ~4 years time we had a whole host of our current youngsters hitting their prime and in a position to dominate across all fronts for a few years?

Andrew Beef

I think that we need to be more pragmatic. If our manager believes that Martial is to toxic presence who’ll never hit the heights we once thought he might and if he believes that Willian is the missing piece of the jigsaw, then we should back him.

Martial has shown flashes of brilliance but he has been pretty inconsistent, plus his behaviour off the pitch has been questionable at times.

We have to trust the manager to manage.

deaddonkey15

Deleted User wrote: »

I criticised Pogba in a reply to GSPfan over the weekend, and described a situation which goes against the bolded part above. No need to read it, just reposting the relevant part to show that I've been discussing this rather than suddenly popping up to say 'Hey CC, you're fúcking wrong man!'

I've since made a gif and posted it below...



This is the largest gif I could embed here...




Link to a larger gif where you can see Darmian and Mata waving and calling for the ball -

http://i.imgur.com/vtS5ih8.gifv


Rather than look to burn Pogba or any individual, I'm just wondering why there is that disconnect between our players. In that situation, Pogba saw those players advancing and in space but chose not to play the ball. They remonstrated in the aftermath.

In another instance, Rashford saw Martial in a prime position to put the team into a 0-1 lead, but chose not to. The players remonstrated in the aftermath.

These aren't even 'new players' like Lukaku and Sanchez who can be afforded that first season to settle into a new team and style of play. These are players who have been training and playing together at United for almost 2 full seasons now. Then when you take Pogba out of it and look at Mata, Martial and Rashford, it's 3 full seasons at the club and they still struggle to find and/or choose the correct pass to each other.

Pogba was far from the worst of our problems against Brighton imo, but I reckon some of his faults were down to himself rather than a lack of forward options.

There was a moment in the first half also where Martial beat one or two players out on the left before playing it to Mata looking for the 1-2. Mata ignored him and just chipped the ball into the keeper's hands. Gary Neville alluded to it in commentary.

Zeek12

Andrew Beef wrote: »

I think that we need to be more pragmatic. If our manager believes that Martial is to toxic presence who’ll never hit the heights we once thought he might and if he believes that Willian is the missing piece of the jigsaw, then we should back him.

Martial has shown flashes of brilliance but he has been pretty inconsistent, plus his behaviour off the pitch has been questionable at times.

We have to trust the manager to manage.

Martial is still relatively young. Good coaching and a display of trust and confidence from the manager can go a long way with a player like this. He clearly has lots of talent.
Look how Sterling has been transformed at Man City this year, he's unrecognizable from recent seasons.

I thought Martial was having a very solid season and was showing incremental improvement up to January.
But when Sanchez arrived, his opportunities in the team were reduced right away and his confidence has obviously dipped.
He needs to feel the Manager believes in him.

Willian will be 30 when next season starts. Swopping our talented young forwards for a player who is arguably already at his peak for some time (and possibly not for too much longer) is shortsighted and typical of Jose.

Its all short term thinking - no interest in building a squad to compete for more than the next one/two seasons

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

There was a moment in the first half also where Martial beat one or two players out on the left before playing it to Mata looking for the 1-2. Mata ignored him and just chipped the ball into the keeper's hands. Gary Neville alluded to it in commentary.

Yeah it was a bizarre game for that kind of stuff, plenty of examples.

When I see that, and then the multitude of misplaced passes from the likes of Pogba and Fellaini, I honestly can't blame the manager. Not in the moment or the short term.

As has been mentioned, Jose was seething in his seat at times last Saturday. From that, and his post-match interviews, its clear that he knows that performance was dogshíte.

In real-time during the game the manager cannot control this. But I expect him to be able to coach this brainlessness out of most of them eventually, and to sell on the few who he can't.

Andrew Beef

It’s easy to forget that we only see the games whereas Jose sees the guys training; we have to trust his judgement more.

Zeek12

Andrew Beef wrote: »

It’s easy to forget that we only see the games whereas Jose sees the guys training; we have to trust his judgement more.

Is this the same judgement that sent Salah and De Bruyne packing - just because the results weren’t instant?

It’s obvious those calls were not very wise

Zeek12

Zeek12 wrote: »

Is this the same judgement that sent Salah and De Bruyne packing - just because the results weren’t instant?

It’s obvious those calls were not very wise

Hindsight is 20/20 how many others are there that didnt go on to become great players.

Someone said here the year he loaned/sold one of them Chelsea went on to win the league, something that United should be aiming for every year, not a few years down to road when someone who has bags of potential might fulfill it and be at his peak

Cantona's Collars

Zeek12 wrote: »

Is this the same judgement that sent Salah and De Bruyne packing - just because the results weren’t instant?

It’s obvious those calls were not very wise

Wasn't Jose gone from Chelsea before they got rid of Salah permanently??
Jose sent him on loan and was sacked about 8 months before Chelsea sold Salah to Roma.;)

Cantona's Collars

Yaya Toure saying that one of his biggest achievements is putting United in City's shadow. He should get a cake to celebrate. City are so big that they couldn't even fill their stadium to see them lift the premier league trophy.
Pep now refusing to commit to them long term, maybe he's gotten an offer from a big club.

pjohnson

I couldn't really give a shìte if Martial wins the Ballon D'Or at a different club 4 - 5 years from now. He has been awful in his last few games.

No one at Chelsea cared when De Bruyne/Salah left.

I'm not convinced any of the those rumours are true but.....

I will be pissed if Willian is purchased to replace Martial, even if Martial has been frustrating for about 3 seasons now. He still hasn't kicked on yet from with sprinkles of brilliance in between the mediocrity.

Getting William does nothing but provide short term gain. There must be another quality winger available on the right side of 30

Andrew Beef

Zeek12 wrote: »

Andrew Beef wrote: »

It’s easy to forget that we only see the games whereas Jose sees the guys training; we have to trust his judgement more.

Is this the same judgement that sent Salah and De Bruyne packing - just because the results weren’t instant?

It’s obvious those calls were not very wise

The Salah myth has been debunked. Jose signed Mo Salah, so spotted his talent. He didn’t sell him, he loaned him out to Italy with a view to developing him as a player; surprise surprise, he developed! And when Salah was sold by Chelsea, it was 8 months after Jose had left Chelsea (it was a different year actually!).

bangkok

pjohnson wrote: »

I couldn't really give a shìte if Martial wins the Ballon D'Or at a different club 4 - 5 years from now. He has been awful in his last few games.

No one at Chelsea cared when De Bruyne/Salah left.

Its very hard for a player to come into the team and be expected to perform when the rest of the team is crap and its not even a full strenght one

Trigger

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I'm not convinced any of the those rumours are true but.....

I will be pissed if Willian is purchased to replace Martial, even if Martial has been frustrating for about 3 seasons now. He still hasn't kicked on yet from with sprinkles of brilliance in between the mediocrity.

Getting William does nothing but provide short term gain. There must be another quality winger available on the right side of 30

The point is that Willian would not be purchased to replace Martial, he would be purchased to fill the huge Gap on the right side of the pitch every match and to provide with that has been sorely lacking from our attack out there

If you want Martial to develop at the club, you need to understand that at 20 or so he is still going to be incredibly inconsistent. Is that enough for a title challenge. Bear in mind the reports are that he wants to play up top and using that as leverage against the club to stay on, with Jose apparently promising he would be playing there next season(I’d call bull**** on that one tbh) again though, ask yourself who would you prefer to lead the line. I know my answer would be Lukaku every day of the week

jayo26

its funny the way people try everything and even refabricate history to try make themselves feel a little better.

You could pick any manager that a top player didn't work out for them and went on to be world class never mind talking about two players that hadnt even developed.

hufpc8w3adnk65

jayo26 wrote: »

its funny the way people try everything and even refabricate history to try make themselves feel a little better.

You could pick any manager that a top player didn't work out for them and went on to be world class never mind talking about two players that hadnt even developed.

How many managers sold Ibra? Even Pep thought of Eto’o as not good enough and he went on to win a champions league not long after that

pjohnson

The same people that will complain about selling Martial seem to have been complaining we haven't impoved this season. Yet they want us too keep inconsistent yongsters playing week in week out.

Martial isn't first choice left winger OR striker. Willian would be first choice right winger.

bangkok

Willian is decent but will be 30 start of next season, we need pace in the side, willian has already hit his peak, a swap deal for martial would be a terrible deal for us

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Willian is decent but will be 30 start of next season, we need pace in the side, willian has already hit his peak, a swap deal for martial would be a terrible deal for us

It wouldn’t be a straight swap, with would be Willian plus cash.

“We need pace in the side” that’s exactly what Willian would bring to the right hand side, you do know that careers don’t end at 30?

Anyways, had a look through the news for these and they are coming from the RedTops mainly, with one of them saying we would swap with Dortmund for Pulisic which I find hard to believe too

Lithium93_

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Yaya Toure saying that one of his biggest achievements is putting United in City's shadow. He should get a cake to celebrate. City are so big that they couldn't even fill their stadium to see them lift the premier league trophy.
Pep now refusing to commit to them long term, maybe he's gotten an offer from a big club.

City will always, ALWAYS pale in comparison to United, even when the club is going through a rough patch, or patches as the last few years will show.

Liam McPoyle

bangkok wrote: »

Willian is decent but will be 30 start of next season, we need pace in the side, willian has already hit his peak, a swap deal for martial would be a terrible deal for us

Pace me arse.

Valencia has bags of pace but about .01% end product.