Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

Liam O

astradave wrote: »

It wouldn’t be a straight swap, with would be Willian plus cash.

“We need pace in the side” that’s exactly what Willian would bring to the right hand side, you do know that careers don’t end at 30?

Anyways, had a look through the news for these and they are coming from the RedTops mainly, with one of them saying we would swap with Dortmund for Pulisic which I find hard to believe too

I'd like that but then you are stuck with another potentially inconsistent youngster. Look at the profile of player City have bought since coming to prevalence. Age profile 21-25 and 2-3 odd seasons playing in Europa/CL level teams so ready to take that next step. With the likes of Martial and Rashford United are trying to develop these guys into those players into the players they should be buying ready made. Any wonder Lukaku somewhat landed on his feet this season in comparison to the other 2 who have put in some decent performances but dogged with inconsistencies?

Now I would say that with better full backs who can get to the byline there would be more freedom for these guys to get into the box and do what they are capable of with less pressure.

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

It wouldn’t be a straight swap, with would be Willian plus cash.

“We need pace in the side” that’s exactly what Willian would bring to the right hand side, you do know that careers don’t end at 30?

Anyways, had a look through the news for these and they are coming from the RedTops mainly, with one of them saying we would swap with Dortmund for Pulisic which I find hard to believe too

Still a bad deal.

Willian has 12 goals 8 assists this season, martial has 12 goals 7 assists.

Martial is 22 and is ice cool in front of goal.

17 goals in his debut season in england, he needs a run of games in the team, hard for any player in world football to play well when you only getting a few mins here and there and the team is playing poorly

pjohnson

astradave wrote: »

It wouldn’t be a straight swap, with would be Willian plus cash.

“We need pace in the side” that’s exactly what Willian would bring to the right hand side, you do know that careers don’t end at 30?

Anyways, had a look through the news for these and they are coming from the RedTops mainly, with one of them saying we would swap with Dortmund for Pulisic which I find hard to believe too

I wonder if those complaining about Willian's age also thought Matic too old?

bangkok

Business Cat wrote: »

Pace me arse.

Valencia has bags of pace but about .01% end product.

Valencia is a right back, for him his main job is defending.

He has also chipped in with 3 goals and an assist from right back which is decent

Cookiemunster

bangkok wrote: »

Valencia is a right back, for him his main job is defending.

He has also chipped in with 3 goals and an assist from right back which is decent

Valencia is a right winger doing a job at right back.

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

Still a bad deal.

Willian has 12 goals 8 assists this season, martial has 12 goals 7 assists.

Theres more to judge a player on than goals and assists.

Liam McPoyle

bangkok wrote: »

Valencia is a right back, for him his main job is defending.

He has also chipped in with 3 goals and an assist from right back which is decent

He is currently our only pacey outlet on the right, my point is that it's not pace we need, it's players that can deliver the ball into key areas on a consistent basis.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Valencia is a right back, for him his main job is defending.

He has also chipped in with 3 goals and an assist from right back which is decent

One assist is not decent when you are the primary outlet of attack on the right wing..

Cantona's Collars

astradave wrote: »

One assist is not decent when you are the primary outlet of attack on the right wing..

United's right side.....where attacks go to die.

bangkok

pjohnson wrote: »

Theres more to judge a player on than goals and assists.

Yea there is.

Age being one, potential, pace, market value, goalscoring, martial being better in all them departments

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

One assist is not decent when you are the primary outlet of attack on the right wing..

You forgot the 3 goals as well

Lithium93_

Question, how many chances/run of games does Martial needs before José takes notice..

Way I see it, Martial is United's equivalent of Mesut Ozil.

Cantona's Collars

An interesting read on Jose's mindset regards tactics. No wonder we see the team struggle against teams that sit back.

http://www.the42.ie/jose-mourinho-opinion-3999807-May2018/?amp=1

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Still a bad deal.

Willian has 12 goals 8 assists this season, martial has 12 goals 7 assists.

Martial is 22 and is ice cool in front of goal.

17 goals in his debut season in england, he needs a run of games in the team, hard for any player in world football to play well when you only getting a few mins here and there and the team is playing poorly

Maybe from a financial POV, but looking at it from a team balancing point, it makes sense. I’m not saying that we should sell him on, I’m saying if he is demanding this and that in negotiations, it might be better to cut our loses. Ultimately I think it will be Martial call.

But bringing in a RW like Willian if our hand is forced is only a good deal as it gives us something that we really need

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

You forgot the 3 goals as well

And you forgot everything else from his attacking game when posting up those stats

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

Maybe from a financial POV, but looking at it from a team balancing point, it makes sense. I’m not saying that we should sell him on, I’m saying if he is demanding this and that in negotiations, it might be better to cut our loses. Ultimately I think it will be Martial call.

But bringing in a RW like Willian if our hand is forced is only a good deal as it gives us something that we really need

Willian is decent, dont think he takes us to next level. someone like bale would be a much better signing although his injuries, price and age all go against him

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Willian is decent, dont think he takes us to next level. someone like bale would be a much better signing although his injuries, price and age all go against him

Personally I think we need a right footed RW who can stay out wide instead of cutting in or can send in a ball quickly without the need to cut back into their left ala mata.

That’s not me turning my nose up at Bale, I’d snap your hand off for a fit Bale.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/994139391760175104

Gonna be bedlam in the coming transfer window with players joining up with national team squads within weeks.

Cantona's Collars

Duncan has spoken. "PSG consider move for Pogba".

https://twitter.com/DuncanCastles/status/994143226868191233

Lithium93_

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/994139391760175104

Gonna be bedlam in the coming transfer window with players joining up with national team squads within weeks.

Hope José and Woodward have their ducks in a row and business done early..

Trigger

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Duncan has spoken. "PSG consider move for Pogba".

https://twitter.com/DuncanCastles/status/994143226868191233

Straight swap with Neymar and Verrati and he can go

pjohnson

I was thinking that myself. Gunna be no real down time this summer. Gunna be nuts to get players in. Wouldn't mind starting the ball rolling ASAP. Have a few ready for when the window opens.

elbyrneo

Martial as a potential transfer coming up in a few club forums. I think he would be perfect for LFC. Not going to happen I know, but he could do well under Klopp and his direct, pacey anf technical style of play could really compliment and provide cover for the inside fwds which we lack right now. I'm sure he would press and improve work rate if directed too?

Or am I just seeing the good in him (and remembering his debut in particular) and the reality is his potential and talent isn't as significant as thought? Or is it that Jose, team tactics, and/or Sanchez has blocked his development and the lad needs a move?

I suppose another way to ask would be - would you fear him at Liverpool Or Chelsea etc.

Mitch Connor

pjohnson wrote: »

I was thinking that myself. Gunna be no real down time this summer. Gunna be nuts to get players in. Wouldn't mind starting the ball rolling ASAP. Have a few ready for when the window opens.

I would also love that to be the case, but it rarely is.

Take that Savic fella at Lazio. Apparently we are interested and have been talking to him and Lazio for ages.

While I think United could speed things up, I do think the fact would be that a player/agent knows they can't move until the summer and will know they can't start playing properly til August so a longer process drawing out more buyers and more money suits them just fine.

Lithium93_

elbyrneo wrote: »

Martial as a potential transfer coming up in a few club forums. I think he would be perfect for LFC. Not going to happen I know, but he could do well under Klopp and his direct, pacey anf technical style of play could really compliment and provide cover for the inside fwds which we lack right now. I'm sure he would press and improve work rate if directed too?

Or am I just seeing the good in him (and remembering his debut in particular) and the reality is his potential and talent isn't as significant as thought? Or is it that Jose, team tactics, and/or Sanchez has blocked his development and the lad needs a move?

I suppose another way to ask would be - would you fear him at Liverpool Or Chelsea etc.

I'd fear Martial going to either, as it's a case of he could come back to haunt United down the line..

Mitch Connor

elbyrneo wrote: »

Martial as a potential transfer coming up in a few club forums. I think he would be perfect for LFC. Not going to happen I know, but he could do well under Klopp and his direct, pacey anf technical style of play could really compliment and provide cover for the inside fwds which we lack right now. I'm sure he would press and improve work rate if directed too?

Or am I just seeing the good in him (and remembering his debut in particular) and the reality is his potential and talent isn't as significant as thought? Or is it that Jose, team tactics, and/or Sanchez has blocked his development and the lad needs a move?

I suppose another way to ask would be - would you fear him at Liverpool Or Chelsea etc.

I would fear him at Liverpool. In an attack that works at speed, and allows him to concentrate on attack, he would be excellent.

A big issue at United for him (and Rashford) is that they are treated more as left wingers than winger/attackers (like Mane/Salah).

Lord TSC

I'd take Willian and cash for Martial tbh.

Willian might not be a top level RW, but we might not need a TOP level one necessarily. He'd be a great stop gap for a year; a player who knows the league, and knows Jose.

It would also then let us spend more on the other problem areas like full backs and midfield. Then next summer, worry about going after a top level RWer.

Other option as well would be to grab Willian AND a young RW player; Kluvert or give Periera a chance. Let them develop for a year without the pressure of being the only attacking outlet on that flank.

Chelsea are what Chelsea are tbh. I think they'll boost up a bit next year, especially if they miss CL football. That's their cycle. They'll implode then as they always do, and tbh having Martial in a team prone to downing tools would be dangerous for Chelsea. I'd rather he bugger off abroad but I won't cry if he moves to Chelsea or Arsenal.

Trigger

They only problem Martial would have is he doesn’t work hard enough pressing and off the ball, at Liverpool the front 3 are expected to press continuously and I don’t think Martial can do the pressing they do.

Going forward he would definitely be decent but I don’t see him as a Klopp style player

Cookiemunster

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I would also love that to be the case, but it rarely is.

Take that Savic fella at Lazio. Apparently we are interested and have been talking to him and Lazio for ages.

While I think United could speed things up, I do think the fact would be that a player/agent knows they can't move until the summer and will know they can't start playing properly til August so a longer process drawing out more buyers and more money suits them just fine.

All transfers have to be done before the PL kicks off this summer, so I'd expect quick deals. Especially for players who are going to the world cup.

pjohnson

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I would also love that to be the case, but it rarely is.

Take that Savic fella at Lazio. Apparently we are interested and have been talking to him and Lazio for ages.

While I think United could speed things up, I do think the fact would be that a player/agent knows they can't move until the summer and will know they can't start playing properly til August so a longer process drawing out more buyers and more money suits them just fine.

All transfers have to be done before the PL kicks off this summer, so I'd expect quick deals. Especially for players who are going to the world cup.

Yep. The window for deals is tiny. I just saw on Sky (so may be false) that Brighton have had a £10m offer for Thomas Delaney rejected. He would be joining Denmark for the WC preparations and World Cup so it actually wouldn't suprise me if actual bids WERE already starting.

Mitch Connor

Cookiemunster wrote: »

All transfers have to be done before the PL kicks off this summer, so I'd expect quick deals. Especially for players who are going to the world cup.

Oh yeah, I had forgot the PL had been a bunch of idiots and shot themselves in the foot on that one.

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

They only problem Martial would have is he doesn’t work hard enough pressing and off the ball, at Liverpool the front 3 are expected to press continuously and I don’t think Martial can do the pressing they do.

Going forward he would definitely be decent but I don’t see him as a Klopp style player

Would have said the same about salah and firmino before season started. Its amazing what a bit of coaching can do. Martial is an exceptional talent, think we can all agree in that, his form early in the season along with rashford was very good. Sanchez arrival has slowed that development of both

pjohnson

Actually has the league clairified the outgoing part of the window? The 25 man Squad lists were usually completed September 1st after all deals were done, there could still be possible outgoing deals after August 9th which could muck up the submitted squad lists?

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Would have said the same about salah and firmino before season started. Its amazing what a bit of coaching can do. Martial is an exceptional talent, think we can all agree in that, his form early in the season along with rashford was very good. Sanchez arrival has slowed that development of both

Salah and Firmino have always showed the desire to track back and press effectively, the same can’t be said for Martial.

Cookiemunster

pjohnson wrote: »

Actually has the league clairified the outgoing part of the window? The 25 man Squad lists were usually completed September 1st after all deals were done, there could still be possible outgoing deals after August 9th which could muck up the submitted squad lists?

I'm pretty sure that they can't stop outgoing transfers. That all depends on the deadline of the league the player is transferring to.

pjohnson

Wasnt Firmino known as a hard working attacking midfielder at Hoffenheim?

Trigger

pjohnson wrote: »

Wasnt Firmino known as a hard working attacking midfielder at Hoffenheim?

Yep and Salah as a hard working RW with Roma, shows how much someone has seen them before making that assumption

pjohnson

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that they can't stop outgoing transfers. That all depends on the deadline of the league the player is transferring to.

Ah right, jaysus this will be quite messy. While I can agree with closing the window before the season starts being the only country to do so is odd.

elbyrneo

bangkok wrote: »

Would have said the same about salah and firmino before season started. Its amazing what a bit of coaching can do. Martial is an exceptional talent, think we can all agree in that, his form early in the season along with rashford was very good. Sanchez arrival has slowed that development of both

Yeah both rashford and martial are the type of players when you see they are on the bench you feel relief. That says it all really.

If they could be coached to be part of an effective and disciplined unit while still being able to play their attacking side of their game with freedom and creativity, they would be assets for pretty much most of the big European teams. Not going to happen for LFC, but interesting to hear your thoughts all the same.

Think particular martial needs a move either way, would like to see him get another chance

pjohnson

astradave wrote: »

Yep and Salah as a hard working RW with Roma, shows how much someone has seen them before making that assumption

So the point is that Klopps brilliant coaching has turned two hardworking players into............hard working players??????

Mitch Connor

pjohnson wrote: »

Ah right, jaysus this will be quite messy. While I can agree with closing the window before the season starts being the only country to do so is odd.

That is why I have an issue with what they have done. It was done to create squad stability and avoid things like the Sanchez farce at the end of the summer window last summer - but that only happens if it is only an English team involved.

If Barcelona or Real Madrid want to sign DDG in August, United can't stop them from making an approach - and if something happens where you end up losing a top star (for big money) to a foreign side, you have no ability to replace them.

Its going to create a bit of a mess, for no real benefit.

Actually, the benefit is that the squads (in terms of incoming signings) will be the same for everyone to play in August - teams playing the first weekend aren't at an advantage (possible) vs teams that play in September. But then in January we are potentially right back to that 'issue' so whats the point of making a song and dance about it in August.

bangkok

pjohnson wrote: »

So the point is that Klopps brilliant coaching has turned two hardworking players into............hard working players??????

Yea clearly thats all it has done

jayo26

Haha to point out the obvious here bit Jose is such a bad coach that his coaching has turned a team of poor performing players in 6th place in the league to a team of under performing players that finish second in the league.

Kloopbeem the the genius that he is at this moment in time has turned a team of attacking players into one that will possibly finish on less points then the season before while including the world's most expensive defender into that and the world's most inform forward........

Logic?

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

Haha to point out the obvious here bit Jose is such a bad coach that his coaching has turned a team of poor performing players in 6th place in the league to a team of under performing players that finish second in the league.

Kloopbeem the the genius that he is at this moment in time has turned a team of attacking players into one that will possibly finish on less points then the season before while including the world's most expensive defender into that and the world's most inform forward........

Logic?

We finished 6th last season as we put all our eggs in the europa league basket.

Liverpool will finish on less points this season as they have got to a chmpions league final.

Their standard of football this season has been much higher than ours and more enjoyable to watch i would imagine

Mitch Connor

jayo26 wrote: »

Haha to point out the obvious here bit Jose is such a bad coach that his coaching has turned a team of poor performing players in 6th place in the league to a team of under performing players that finish second in the league.

Kloopbeem the the genius that he is at this moment in time has turned a team of attacking players into one that will possibly finish on less points then the season before while including the world's most expensive defender into that and the world's most inform forward........

Logic?

Should the fact he has got them to the CL final not also be taken into account in this though?

Our terrible form in the league last season, especially in the last month or so, was put down to concentration on the Europa League - should it not be considered that Liverpool are doing the same with regards to the much bigger prize of the CL?

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Should the fact he has got them to the CL final not also be taken into account in this though?

Our terrible form in the league last season, especially in the last month or so, was put down to concentration on the Europa League - should it not be considered that Liverpool are doing the same with regards to the much bigger prize of the CL?

I literally posted the same just before you

Lord TSC

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Should the fact he has got them to the CL final not also be taken into account in this though?

Our terrible form in the league last season, especially in the last month or so, was put down to concentration on the Europa League - should it not be considered that Liverpool are doing the same with regards to the much bigger prize of the CL?

I'd say it will be much the same as last year for us; if they win, they will see it as an incredible season. If they lose, then not so much.

Now, they will still take massive pride in hitting the CL finals. Thats a massive feat. But it would leave their season hinging on not missing top 4 on the last day of the season.

If we come second and win the FA Cup, I'd say we had a better season than a Liverpool who came 4th and "only" got to the CL Finals, but walked away with no trophy.

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

We finished 6th last season as we put all our eggs in the europa league basket.

Liverpool will finish on less points this season as they have got to a chmpions league final.

Their standard of football this season has been much higher than ours and more enjoyable to watch i would imagine

So it's ok to point out now that he gave up on the league early to concentrate successfully on Europe but back at end of season when the bullsh1t was been peddled that wasn't the story at all.

Of course it has been better to watch no one will argue that at all but the fact is there is only 2 or possible 3 clubs in Europe that play that good of football constantly.

Klopp has done a great job no doubt and maybe they will won the champs league and I'll be first to give him credit then but he has traded off the defensive duties of the team against top teams in order to score goals and they have got off very lucky.

It could of easily backfired in the last two rounds of champions league it could of backfired on them against city in the league they were hanging on at the end.

Against the top teams this year we have played as a team and got results it wasn't exciting football but it wasn't dire and it was successful our problem has been the white performances from the players against the bottom teams.

Mitch Connor

Lord TSC wrote: »

I'd say it will be much the same as last year for us; if they win, they will see it as an incredible season. If they lose, then not so much.

Now, they will still take massive pride in hitting the CL finals. Thats a massive feat. But it would leave their season hinging on not missing top 4 on the last day of the season.

If we come second and win the FA Cup, I'd say we had a better season than a Liverpool who came 4th and "only" got to the CL Finals, but walked away with no trophy.

whatever about the merits of the season, I would find it odd if people don't think Klopp has proven his ability to get the best out of attacking players, at least.

I reckon Lukaku, Rashford, Martial and Sanchez would be playing better football under him than we have seen under Mourinho - not to say those players are inherently better than Mane/Firmino/Salah - but the football Liverpool play in the final third is lightyears ahead of United, and I don't think the difference can be credited to a difference in quality of the players.

Lord TSC

Mitch Connor wrote: »

whatever about the merits of the season, I would find it odd if people don't think Klopp has proven his ability to get the best out of attacking players, at least.

I reckon Lukaku, Rashford, Martial and Sanchez would be playing better football under him than we have seen under Mourinho - not to say those players are inherently better than Mane/Firmino/Salah - but the football Liverpool play in the final third is lightyears ahead of United, and I don't think the difference can be credited to a difference in quality of the players.

I'm not going to disagree with the notion he's set up a very good attacking unit.

I would say i believe Liverpool are extremely one dimensional; a good defensive unit seems to utterly negate them. That they have demolished teams in the CL who refuse steadfastly to take advantage of that is nothing against them and their achievements. But there's a blueprint to beat them.

I think as far as the league goes, they've been very inconsistent; you can score goals for fun, but at the end of the day, their league points total has regressed, and for all the goals they've scored, they are looking at a final day battle for a CL spot in the league. Their league form has to be considered a disappointment for them. One that will be ignored thanks to their CL run, but still something to be examined.

So far as the league goes then....would I rather be in forth with a manager "getting the best out of players" or second with a manager who isn't operating at 100% efficency, and thus has more room to improve next season? The latter, personally.