Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

shane.

pjohnson wrote: »

And our worst league positon was the time we were 15 points behind Leicester. Great metric to use altogether :pac:

Finished 5th that season, 6th last season, progress alrite

pjohnson

shane. wrote: »

Finished 5th that season, 6th last season, progress alrite

Oh so is it final position that matters now not points gap?

jimmytwotimes 2013

Lukaku the type of fella who's instinctive and better off not having time to think

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/994191355818725376?s=19

jayo26

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Lukaku the type of fella who's instinctive and better off not having time to think

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/994191355818725376?s=19

No it just means he is more instinctive then most other players not that he is better off not having time to think about it.

jayo26

pjohnson wrote: »

Oh so is it final position that matters now not points gap?

bangkok

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Lukaku the type of fella who's instinctive and better off not having time to think

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/994191355818725376?s=19

How do they even come up with that stat?

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

How do they even come up with that stat?

If they can come up with expected goals and actually use it as a serious stat then goals when under pressure is a peace of cake.

bangkok

Poll on sky sports. 78% dont want to see fellaini at united next season.

And as le Tissier says "Manchester United should be better than having 'throw on the big lad' as their plan B"

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Poll on sky sports. 78% dont want to see fellaini at united next season.

And as le Tissier says "Manchester United should be better than having 'throw on the big lad' as their plan B"

Did you disagree with Fergies Plan B? Cause that was his too? The revisionism is crazy, most teams when chasing a win/draw will throw a big man up top..

I do hope we upgrade on him tbf but that’s not the reason why..

fergiesfolly

bangkok wrote: »

Poll on sky sports. 78% dont want to see fellaini at united next season.

And as le Tissier says "Manchester United should be better than having 'throw on the big lad' as their plan B"

There might be a moment, ten minutes from the end of the CL final when Liverpool wished they had a plan B.

Not too bothered if he stays or goes, but he has a role and fulfills it well.

And f#ck Le Tissier.
Would like to be a fly on the wall when he looks back over his career and sees diddly squat.
I'd say there's more silverware in Fellanis bathroom than in LeTissiers trophy cabinet.

Drumpot

astradave wrote: »

Did you disagree with Fergies Plan B? Cause that was his too? The revisionism is crazy, most teams when chasing a win/draw will throw a big man up top..

I do hope we upgrade on him tbf but that’s not the reason why..

Yeh, people always remember 1999 period. I would argue that the 2006-2013 period of success was way more counter attacking orientated and pragmatic like Jose then it was closer to the 1999 style that everybody remembers.

Jose signing Veron was when he started to shift tactics. I think it was after the defeat to Madrid in 2000. For all the fond memories United were able to ship goals in important games. That team in 2000 was, IMO, stronger then the one the season we won in 1999!!!

When you are winning titiles you don’t care or notice the brand of football as much. Up until this season Jose’s Chelsea has scored the most amount of goals in one season with the exact same brand of football he is playing with united.

Mitch Connor

astradave wrote: »

Did you disagree with Fergies Plan B? Cause that was his too? The revisionism is crazy, most teams when chasing a win/draw will throw a big man up top..

I do hope we upgrade on him tbf but that’s not the reason why..

Fergie didn't have a player whose sole job was that though, did he? Maybe Dion Dublin for a time after his injury?

Fergie would put one of the CBs up top if needed.

The only reason to keep Fellaini is for that plan B option, which we could potentially use other players for and change Fellaini out for a player that will be of more use to Plan A.

Drumpot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Fergie didn't have a player whose sole job was that though, did he? Maybe Dion Dublin for a time after his injury?

Fergie would put one of the CBs up top if needed.

The only reason to keep Fellaini is for that plan B option, which we could potentially use other players for and change Fellaini out for a player that will be of more use to Plan A.

This makes me think of Steve Bruce X 2 versus Sheffield Wednesday!!!

I think though you need a CB who has a decent head on them....

Liam O

bangkok wrote: »

Poll on sky sports. 78% dont want to see fellaini at united next season.

And as le Tissier says "Manchester United should be better than having 'throw on the big lad' as their plan B"

I've always had a problem believing more than 22% of people know what's good for themselves alright.

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

Did you disagree with Fergies Plan B? Cause that was his too? The revisionism is crazy, most teams when chasing a win/draw will throw a big man up top..

I do hope we upgrade on him tbf but that’s not the reason why..

What, bringing on fellaini??

Fergies plan b was a change in tactics, 3 even 4 strikers in some games, bringing on ole gunnar for years, teddy sheringham, tevez. Skillfull players, even macheda got a chance!!

Trigger

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Fergie didn't have a player whose sole job was that though, did he? Maybe Dion Dublin for a time after his injury?

Fergie would put one of the CBs up top if needed.

The only reason to keep Fellaini is for that plan B option, which we could potentially use other players for and change Fellaini out for a player that will be of more use to Plan A.

Possibly Sheringham, but he was great with the ball at his feet too.

I’m not arguing the second point, I would prefer an upgrade too, I’m just stating that LeTissier’s point is bull****, as thru the years United have always thrown a a big man up front as a Plan B when chasing a game,

bangkok

Drumpot wrote: »

Yeh, people always remember 1999 period. I would argue that the 2006-2013 period of success was way more counter attacking orientated and pragmatic like Jose then it was closer to the 1999 style that everybody remembers.

Jose signing Veron was when he started to shift tactics. I think it was after the defeat to Madrid in 2000. For all the fond memories United were able to ship goals in important games. That team in 2000 was, IMO, stronger then the one the season we won in 1999!!!

When you are winning titiles you don’t care or notice the brand of football as much. Up until this season Jose’s Chelsea has scored the most amount of goals in one season with the exact same brand of football he is playing with united.

Jose never signed veron

Trigger

Raneri signed him the year before Jose came in, didn’t he

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

Possibly Sheringham, but he was great with the ball at his feet too.

I’m not arguing the second point, I would prefer an upgrade too, I’m just stating that LeTissier’s point is bull****, as thru the years United have always thrown a a big man up front as a Plan B when chasing a game,

We havent always thrown a big man up front when chasing a game. That is nonsense

hufpc8w3adnk65

Drumpot wrote: »

Yeh, people always remember 1999 period. I would argue that the 2006-2013 period of success was way more counter attacking orientated and pragmatic like Jose then it was closer to the 1999 style that everybody remembers.

Jose signing Veron was when he started to shift tactics. I think it was after the defeat to Madrid in 2000. For all the fond memories United were able to ship goals in important games. That team in 2000 was, IMO, stronger then the one the season we won in 1999!!!

When you are winning titiles you don’t care or notice the brand of football as much. Up until this season Jose’s Chelsea has scored the most amount of goals in one season with the exact same brand of football he is playing with united.

fergie you mean?

VW 1

astradave wrote: »

The revisionism is crazy, most teams when chasing a win/draw will throw a big man up top..

bangkok wrote: »

Poll on sky sports. 78% dont want to see fellaini at united next season.

And as le Tissier says "Manchester United should be better than having 'throw on the big lad' as their plan B"

Only this season we have seen Van Dijk up top for liverpool, kompany for city and cahill for chelsea. Who doesnt do this at some point when chasing a game?

bangkok

VW 1 wrote: »

Only this season we have seen Van Dijk up top for liverpool, kompany for city and cahill for chelsea. Who doesnt do this at some point when chasing a game?

Yea i agree with that, dont agree that fergie did it all the time and that was our plan B. We do it a lot with fellaini and we should be better than that

jayo26

VW 1 wrote: »

Only this season we have seen Van Dijk up top for liverpool, kompany for city and cahill for chelsea. Who doesnt do this at some point when chasing a game?

Seemingly it's better to do it with a defender then to do it with someone that's proven they can do it time and again.

Imagine saying after the Liverpool game this season that ohh I wish we had a big lump of a defender in the squad then fellain who came on and turned the game for us and it wasn't to long ball got and hope to him either he gave us presence in a midfield that was been over run..

It's a joke.

Trigger

jayo26 wrote: »

Seemingly it's better to do it with a defender then to do it with someone that's proven they can do it time and again.

Imagine saying after the Liverpool game this season that ohh I wish we had a big lump of a defender in the squad then fellain who came on and turned the game for us and it wasn't to long ball got and hope to him either he gave us presence in a midfield that was been over run..

It's a joke.

I think the word your looking for is “agenda”

Lord TSC

jayo26 wrote: »

It's a joke.

Fellaini was bought by a manager who everyone hated, so he remains the personification of that reign. On top of that, he doesn't play "attractive" football like Pool and Spurs do. So he's an easy target.

So it doesn't matter how dedicated he can be, how he busts a gut and multiple managers love him for that. He will always be despised because of "what he represents".

Meanwhile, Martial, Shaw, kids who don't look bothered 75% of the time, are lauded as amazing talents and people get horrified at the prospect of losing them....

Priorities, for me, should be in having players willing to die on the pitch, for the team, for the manager and for the club. Fellaini shouldn't be a Plan A, or even a Plan B, but when a Plan C is needed, he's great to have.

Drumpot

MrMac84 wrote: »

fergie you mean?

bangkok wrote: »

Jose never signed veron

Was just seeing if you were paying attention !

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/994518044805337088

Tuttosport are so convinced Mino Raiola has fallen out with Man United, they say the agent is set to push Justin Kluivert to Everton.http://sportwitness.co.uk/italy-agent-will-make-player-sign-everton-manchester-united/ …

Raiola has too much influence,I reckon it was him that was the instigator of the "Pogba is unhappy,etc etc etc" rumours. He's basically just on the lookout for another chunk of a massive transfer fee.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

Fellaini was bought by a manager who everyone hated, so he remains the personification of that reign. On top of that, he doesn't play "attractive" football like Pool and Spurs do. So he's an easy target.

So it doesn't matter how dedicated he can be, how he busts a gut and multiple managers love him for that. He will always be despised because of "what he represents".

Meanwhile, Martial, Shaw, kids who don't look bothered 75% of the time, are lauded as amazing talents and people get horrified at the prospect of losing them....

Priorities, for me, should be in having players willing to die on the pitch, for the team, for the manager and for the club. Fellaini shouldn't be a Plan A, or even a Plan B, but when a Plan C is needed, he's great to have.

And he was absolutely awful in his first season at united and turned into a laughing stock

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

And he was absolutely awful in his first season at united and turned into a laughing stock

Thanks for proving my point. You're holding how he played four years ago against him as a reason to dislike him? You've chosen to ignore all the rest of my post, to confirm that you're issue is how he preformed in his first season under a manager that made everyone look ****.

That stigma didn't seem to follow anyone else. I can't think of another player who "was awful" over a season and still gets booed and hated nearly four years later for it.

Trigger

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/994518044805337088

Tuttosport are so convinced Mino Raiola has fallen out with Man United, they say the agent is set to push Justin Kluivert to Everton.http://sportwitness.co.uk/italy-agent-will-make-player-sign-everton-manchester-united/ …

Raiola has too much influence,I reckon it was him that was the instigator of the "Pogba is unhappy,etc etc etc" rumours. He's basically just on the lookout for another chunk of a massive transfer fee.

I’d say he is absolutely smarting that Lukaku left him too..

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

Thanks for proving my point. You're holding how he played four years ago against him as a reason to dislike him? You've chosen to ignore all the rest of my post, to confirm that you're issue is how he preformed in his first season under a manager that made everyone look ****.

That stigma didn't seem to follow anyone else. I can't think of another player who "was awful" over a season and still gets booed and hated nearly four years later for it.

Well he didnt exactly turn into zidane the following seasons. His passing is poor and for a player who was once considered a forward by van gaal his goalscoring record is awful

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

Well he didnt exactly turn into zidane the following seasons. His passing is poor and for a player who was once considered a forward by van gaal his goalscoring record is awful

Did anyone under Moyes turn into Zidane afterwards? Is that the bar you're setting? Is there any other player who gets treated to a chorus of boos like Fellaini because they underpreformed under Moyes and didn't suddenly become world class afterwards?

And now you're trying to paint that Van Gaal turned him into a forward too, which is hilarious, if not because, again, did ANY goal scorer thrive under Van Gaal? Its not that LVG presented a system where we were scoring for fun, but somehow Fellaini was underpreforming.

Again, that strikes me as an epic tactical screw up from a manager, not a reason to so viciously dislike the player. At the end of the day, if LVG made the call you suggest he did to consider Fellaini a forward, all I can expect from Fellaini at that point is to go "Ok, boss, I'll try".

hufpc8w3adnk65

astradave wrote: »

I’d say he is absolutely smarting that Lukaku left him too..

Did he? I hadnt heard that

Lord TSC

MrMac84 wrote: »

Did he? I hadnt heard that

Lukaku apparently switched over to JayZ's new management firm a few weeks back. There was talks Pogba was heavily considering it too.

The analysis of that move was that JayZ would have zero contacts for any player who'd be considering a move, but would be amazing for a player happy at his club and wanting to push himself more for sponsorship and such. Which was good news for fans of Lukaku.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Well he didnt exactly turn into zidane the following seasons. His passing is poor and for a player who was once considered a forward by van gaal his goalscoring record is awful

For a man who loves to use stats here’s one for ya..

Fellaini pass completion % 2016/17 : 86%
Pogba pass completion % 2016/17 : 85%

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

Did anyone under Moyes turn into Zidane afterwards? Is that the bar you're setting? Is there any other player who gets treated to a chorus of boos like Fellaini because they underpreformed under Moyes and didn't suddenly become world class afterwards?

And now you're trying to paint that Van Gaal turned him into a forward too, which is hilarious, if not because, again, did ANY goal scorer thrive under Van Gaal? Its not that LVG presented a system where we were scoring for fun, but somehow Fellaini was underpreforming.

Again, that strikes me as an epic tactical screw up from a manager, not a reason to so viciously dislike the player. At the end of the day, if LVG made the call you suggest he did to consider Fellaini a forward, all I can expect from Fellaini at that point is to go "Ok, boss, I'll try".

He has had a few decent games at united but the large majority of it he has been poor.

Even his last game v brighton, he passed the ball directly to a brighton player 5 yards ahead of him on more than one occassion. someone even asked at the time is fellaini colour blind...

Who can forget this "composure"

https://youtu.be/WJC0EmrK4vQ

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

For a man who loves to use stats here’s one for ya..

Fellaini pass completion % 2016/17 : 86%
Pogba pass completion % 2016/17 : 85%

Yea he is must be better than pogba so...

What about goals and assists for same season?

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

He has had a few decent games at united but the large majority of it he has been poor.

Even his last game v brighton, he passed the ball directly to a brighton player 5 yards ahead of him on more than one occassion. someone even asked at the time is fellaini colour blind...

Who can forget this "composure"

https://youtu.be/WJC0EmrK4vQ

I'm going out now, so can't respond much more for a few hours, but this is a hilarious counter arguement, especially from someone who won't hear a word against Pogba despite him doing that sort of thing regularly as well.

You won't find a midfielder who doesn't have a Youtube compilation of poor passes. Trying to pick a single moment like that is a brilliant attempt to get away from a general discussion about a player. Its typical of your attempt to shift the goalposts too, since at no stage have I ever argued he's a brilliant passer of the ball, or even a brilliant player in general.

Every time I try to pin you down on why you dislike Fellaini, and try to get you to expand, you run quickly to an utterly different point to hit him from a new angle, rather than actually discuss the issues raised. So good luck to you on that.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

He has had a few decent games at united but the large majority of it he has been poor.

Even his last game v brighton, he passed the ball directly to a brighton player 5 yards ahead of him on more than one occassion. someone even asked at the time is fellaini colour blind...

Who can forget this "composure"

https://youtu.be/WJC0EmrK4vQ

At least he seen a Player and not an advertising hoarding eh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JquYCKUnL4c

Now my point isn’t that Pogba is terrible, it’s that nearly every player out there has done something brutal in a match.. the fact that you use that to back up your point is exactly what TSC is talking about.. that happened during Moyes reign..

Mitch Connor

astradave wrote: »

For a man who loves to use stats here’s one for ya..

Fellaini pass completion % 2016/17 : 86%
Pogba pass completion % 2016/17 : 85%

I hate pass completion stats.

Pogba attempts play switches, through balls and high risk passes a lot.

Fellaini is FAR more likely to ignore a risky pass and play it safe. It is actually the biggest reason I hate seeing him in midfield, not only will there be a lack of creativity to his passing but attacks will slow and stop with him as he dumps the ball back towards our own goal.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

I'm going out now, so can't respond much more for a few hours, but this is a hilarious counter arguement, especially from someone who won't hear a word against Pogba despite him doing that sort of thing regularly as well.

You won't find a midfielder who doesn't have a Youtube compilation of poor passes. Trying to pick a single moment like that is a brilliant attempt to get away from a general discussion about a player. Its typical of your attempt to shift the goalposts too, since at no stage have I ever argued he's a brilliant passer of the ball, or even a brilliant player in general.

Every time I try to pin you down on why you dislike Fellaini, and try to get you to expand, you run quickly to an utterly different point to hit him from a new angle, rather than actually discuss the issues raised. So good luck to you on that.

As i have said a million times in here... i dont dislike fellaini but he is nowhere near good enough to be a Manchester United player just like David Moyes wasnt good enough to be Manchester United manager

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Yea he is must be better than pogba so...

What about goals and assists for same season?

Trigger

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I hate pass completion stats.

Pogba attempts play switches, through balls and high risk passes a lot.

Fellaini is FAR more likely to ignore a risky pass and play it safe. It is actually the biggest reason I hate seeing him in midfield, not only will there be a lack of creativity to his passing but attacks will slow and stop with him as he dumps the ball back towards our own goal.

It was more a point at Bangkok that using stats like what I put there can be extremely misleading without backing up.. I’m in no way saying that Fellaini is a better passer than Pogba

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

At least he seen a Player and not an advertising hoarding eh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JquYCKUnL4c

Now my point isn’t that Pogba is terrible, it’s that nearly every player out there has done something brutal in a match.. the fact that you use that to back up your point is exactly what TSC is talking about.. that happened during Moyes reign..

What about fellaini coming on against everton, 2 min later he gives away a peno probably costing us a top 4, or his headbutt on aguero, he is just too clumsy and needs replacing

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

What about fellaini coming on against everton, 2 min later he gives away a peno probably costing us a top 4, or his headbutt on aguero, he is just too clumsy and needs replacing

Ahh so it’s not about his passing now? It’s about him being clumsy..

I, like TSC, bid you adieu my good friend. Keep fighting.

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

someone even asked at the time is fellaini colour blind...

This is not correct.

I asked if he was just, simply, blind.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

This is not correct.

I asked if he was just, simply, blind.

Mitch Connor

I actually don't mind Fellaini that much, and at various times he has proven himself to be an important squad player.

My issue at this point is that I don't think his talent or performance levels dictate renewing his contract at the numbers that we are seeing being spoken about.

EDIT:

Beyond his use as a target man, I don't think his ability in any aspect of a midfielder (passing, tackling, pressuring, controlling, dictating, shooting, dribbling etc) are good enough to play central midfield for United, in any role of a 2 man or 3 man midfield, not as first choice and even as a back up coming in from the start of a match his talents just aren't good enough.

We lose impetus in attack when he starts in midfield and we don't gain enough defensively either - I think Herrera is a better defensive player in midfield.

I also think McTominay (and I've made my thoughts on him known) can fulfill the role of Fellaini.

United can do better than Fellaini and if we want to win the title or the CL, I think we need to.

Mitch Connor

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I actually don't mind Fellaini that much, and at various times he has proven himself to be an important squad player.

My issue at this point is that I don't think his talent or performance levels dictate renewing his contract at the numbers that we are seeing being spoken about.

Unless we have someone on the books that is good enough and that the manager trusts we are going to have to spend decent money just to buy them on top of whatever wages.

Given we already need 3-4 first team players it might be stretching the transfer budget too far

bangkok

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Unless we have someone on the books that is good enough and that the manager trusts we are going to have to spend decent money just to buy them on top of whatever wages.

Given we already need 3-4 first team players it might be stretching the transfer budget too far

Mctominay is more than good enough