Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

Lord TSC

Eric Cantona will return to Old Trafford this summer as he will be playing in the Soccer Aid match on June 10th

secman

limnam wrote: »

United have had there highest league position since 2103-2014.
First European silverware since 2008
Back into the CL last 16 for the first time since 2013-2014
First league cup since 2010

All under Jose.

Statistics .... we have played far more terrible games to watch than good ones , it's been a poor season watch wise, fcking terrible to be honest. But sure it can't have anything to do with Mourinho, everyone's else's fault but the special one.

Adamocovic

jayo26 wrote: »

Come on now what else would you expect ha eitherways pep will deservedly get it.

Have to agree with Rebel myself. Think Sean Dyche really deserves it.

Yes Pep has done brilliant, wouldn't begrudge him if he won, I think any other year I would be 100% behind him winning it but not this year due to the surprisingly good season from Burnley.

City came into this season on the back of a 3rd place finish and transfer spend of approx. €300 million. Everyone expected them to either win or come close, they were one of the favorites. The manner at which they ran away with it merits a lot of praise to Pep but at the same time most weren't overly shocked by them dominating due to the build-up and expectations.

Burnley on the other hand just avoided relegation last season. Spent around €30 million in transfers but lost their star young CB, and one of their main strikers and 2nd top scorer. The transfers underwhelmed people and the press began writing them off as relegation fodder for the upcoming season. Fast forward to now and they sit 7th in the table and have European football for next season. Every Burnley player points to Dyche as the reason and he's been talked up many times but I think this season went to prove his worth again. It was an extraordinary success.

The award is for the most outstanding manager of the year. Now Pep probably will win it, winning the titles and breaking records, but for me in terms of expectations, limitations and subsequent results Dyche has done the most outstanding job this season.

pjohnson

I have to say Dyche aswell.

Trigger

secman wrote: »

Statistics .... we have played far more terrible games to watch than good ones , it's been a poor season watch wise, fcking terrible to be honest. But sure it can't have anything to do with Mourinho, everyone's else's fault but the special one.

Who here has said anything of the sort? I don’t think I’ve seen anyone obsolve Jose of any blame, most people acknowledge that it’s not been good enough performance wise and that it’s a mix of both the players and the manager, which is the truth if you can look objectively. Even the most ardent Jose fans have laid some blame at his door. But then you have the extremes that blame Jose on everything and obsolve the players of any blame or to paraphrase “everyone else’s fault but the players”

grames_bond

limnam wrote: »

United have had there highest league position since 2103-2014.
First European silverware since 2008
Back into the CL last 16 for the first time since 2013-2014
First league cup since 2010

All under Jose.

Yeah thats all well and good but could you imagine getting to celebrate such lofty heights as these



#PochettinoIN #BestInLondon #WhoNeedsTrophies

Trigger

grames_bond wrote: »

Yeah thats all well and good but could you imagine getting to celebrate such lofty heights as these

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155228736261396&id=561221395

#PochettinoIN #BestInLondon #WhoNeedsTrophies

That has to be greenspurs posting that :pac:

hufpc8w3adnk65

Lads Paul Merson is some spacer. Firstly he says the United players are petrified of José and they all won’t shed any tears if sold and then he says Rooney should pick Rangers over going to the States! Mind blowing stuff!!

Adamocovic

Also find the jabs and Pochettino's career and lack of trophies to be a bit over the top.

I know a lot of fans regard him highly and want him managing us, causes fans to disagree to try belittle the mans career, which doesn't make sense to me.

The lack of trophies is a disappointment for him but when he took over Spurs had previously only qualified for the Champions League/European Cup twice in the span of 50+ years or so. Since taking over he's now qualified them for it twice in 4 years, and for the first time brought back-to back Champions League qualifications to Spurs.

Anyone who thinks he's not a top manager due to the fact that he hasn't won trophies with Spurs yet is having a laugh in my mind.

Mitch Connor

So what are the reasonable expectations for the summer and how they might/are needed to improve things for next season.

Out:
Blind, Darmian, Smalling/Jones/Rojo, Shaw, Carrick, Fellaini, Martial.

In:

Alderwield
Sandro
Fred
Savic
Fekir/Kluivert/Someone

Squad (approximation)

De Gea, Romero, O'Hara
Valencia, TFM, Alderwield, Bailly, Lindelof, Jones/Smalling/Rojo, Young, Sandro
Pogba, Herrera, Matic, Fred, Savic (?), McTominay, Pereira
Lukaku, Rashford, Sanchez, Mata, Lingard, Fekir/Kluivert/Someone.

---

De Gea
TFM----Alderwield--Bailly---Sandro

---

Fred

---

Savic

---

Pogba
----Fekir

---

Lukaku

---

Sanchez

We need more effective width in the side. We need players who will attack down the line and cross, effectively, from wide positions. This (1) creates chances from wide and (2) forces the opposition to defend wide, thus creating spaces in the centre for players like Pogba, Savic (?), Sanchez to attack. At the moment everything is too central, the oppostion can collapse centrally and defend in numbers, and we won't be able to move through them.

In my transfers above, i've no right back - maybe take a chance on TFM there. I dunno. Ideally we would also sign a right back but I don't know where that is going to come in the clubs priorities. The players I have listed above for transfers are easily 250m worth of buys - a new right back pushes that to 300. We'd make some money on Darmian, Blind, Shaw, Martial sales - but possibly only about 100m.

bangkok

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I just seen there that Klopp has been nominated for manager of the year when liverpool have less points than last year and united have moved up to 2nd.

I’m confused do you get nominated for premier league manager of the year for underperforming?

Liverpool underperforming??


Do you honestly feel jose should have been nominated?

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So what are the reasonable expectations for the summer and how they might/are needed to improve things for next season.

Out:
Blind, Darmian, Smalling/Jones/Rojo, Shaw, Carrick, Fellaini, Martial.

In:

Alderwield
Sandro
Fred
Savic
Fekir/Kluivert/Someone

Squad (approximation)

De Gea, Romero, O'Hara
Valencia, TFM, Alderwield, Bailly, Lindelof, Jones/Smalling/Rojo, Young, Sandro
Pogba, Herrera, Matic, Fred, Savic (?), McTominay, Pereira
Lukaku, Rashford, Sanchez, Mata, Lingard, Fekir/Kluivert/Someone.

---

De Gea
TFM----Alderwield--Bailly---Sandro

---

Fred

---

Savic

---

Pogba
----Fekir

---

Lukaku

---

Sanchez

We need more effective width in the side. We need players who will attack down the line and cross, effectively, from wide positions. This (1) creates chances from wide and (2) forces the opposition to defend wide, thus creating spaces in the centre for players like Pogba, Savic (?), Sanchez to attack. At the moment everything is too central, the oppostion can collapse centrally and defend in numbers, and we won't be able to move through them.

In my transfers above, i've no right back - maybe take a chance on TFM there. I dunno. Ideally we would also sign a right back but I don't know where that is going to come in the clubs priorities. The players I have listed above for transfers are easily 250m worth of buys - a new right back pushes that to 300. We'd make some money on Darmian, Blind, Shaw, Martial sales - but possibly only about 100m.

only problem there is you have sanchez and fekir listed as our 2 forward wide players when both of them like to play infield and will clog up the middle

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

only problem there is you have sanchez and fekir listed as our 2 forward wide players when both of them like to play infield and will clog up the middle

What i have read of Fekir is that he is happy to 'drift' wide and is an excellent crosser, so while not a winger who will hug the touchline, he can be effective from wide spaces.

Also, there is no huge issue with the players wanting to come in from wide - our issue this season, imo, is that while we have players doing that we don't have our fullbacks offering effective overlapping options on the wings. As long as our full backs are offering effective width we don't need the wide forwards to concentrate on doing that. The full backs should be pulling the wider opposition players to them, meaning Sanchez and whoever can attack the full back or space between the full back and the centre back.

At the moment the wide players are not getting effective attacking support running beyond them which means they consistently are coming up 2 or 3 players ahead of them when they try to attack.

Lord TSC

I think we'll be buying three new players without any departures, as seems to have been the norm the last two seasons. Thats probably two new fullbacks and a center mid.

I think then if Martial goes, we buy a new attacker for the right wing.

I don't know if we'll be as desperate for a new CB tbh, unless someone like Smalling leaves. At the end of the day, our defense has been pretty solid for the last few years and as much as Smalling frustrates me, I don't know if center back is a massive priority. Especially if we could get Bailly back fulltime and maybe see Lindelof continue to develop.

MagicIRL

Next seasons third kit officially announced. Seems that early leak was right.

It looks absolutely class.

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/994850709425262592

Mitch Connor

Lord TSC wrote: »

I think we'll be buying three new players without any departures, as seems to have been the norm the last two seasons. Thats probably two new fullbacks and a center mid.

I think then if Martial goes, we buy a new attacker for the right wing.

I don't know if we'll be as desperate for a new CB tbh, unless someone like Smalling leaves. At the end of the day, our defense has been pretty solid for the last few years and as much as Smalling frustrates me, I don't know if center back is a massive priority. Especially if we could get Bailly back fulltime and maybe see Lindelof continue to develop.

If Alderwield moves, we'd be insane not to be in for him.

I would not agree the defence has been solid, I would argue DDG has been world class. We give up far too many chances, because our defence isn't good enough to stop them.

We need an upgrade at CB. We need a real organiser there - we need someone to make a difference.

Lord TSC

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If Alderwield moves, we'd be insane not to be in for him.

I would not agree the defence has been solid, I would argue DDG has been world class. We give up far too many chances, because our defence isn't good enough to stop them.

We need an upgrade at CB. We need a real organiser there - we need someone to make a difference.

Fair enough and I do appreciate that.

I just personally prioritize the other positions first. Full backs would help defense and offense massively. Center mid would help all over the pitch.

If there's room then to grab a center back as well, fine, but I would rather go into next season with our current selection of center backs than current sellection of full backs.

Hopefully, mind, the club might see something drastic as being nessecary to gain the grounded needed on City and will really go wild with the cash....

Lord TSC

[ParisUnited] PSG drops interest in Ryan Sessegnon as a replacement to England-bound Kurzawa, who has been already rejected by Manchester United and Tottenham but keeps his interest towards joining a Premier league clubU

Hotblack Desiato

grames_bond wrote: »

Yeah thats all well and good but could you imagine getting to celebrate such lofty heights as these


#PochettinoIN #BestInLondon #WhoNeedsTrophies

Cringe! Soooo small time.


I wonder have Newcastle done one - "Best club on Tyneside"

Hotblack Desiato

MagicIRL wrote: »

Next seasons third kit officially announced. Seems that early leak was right.

It looks absolutely class.

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/994850709425262592

Niiiiice.

First comment tho -

So it's made from Manchester City supporters then?

:pac:

Trigger

MagicIRL wrote: »

Next seasons third kit officially announced. Seems that early leak was right.

It looks absolutely class.

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/994850709425262592

Also nice to see Jesse being the face of that,

Cantona's Collars

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Cringe! Soooo small time.


I wonder have Newcastle done one - "Best club on Tyneside"

Never forget "Manchester is Blue".

So are the empty seats in the Etihad.

pjohnson

I doubt we'll see any RB move. I really dont see it as a priority. At least not as important as getting a RW. Defensively Valencia is solid. I'd imagine TFM will get his chance next year to try to overtake Valencia for the position.

Cantona's Collars

Alternative league table ahoy,thanks Lawro for giving me a laugh on this wet morning.

https://twitter.com/keith1878/status/862791414727536640

Trigger

Adamocovic wrote: »

Also find the jabs and Pochettino's career and lack of trophies to be a bit over the top.

I know a lot of fans regard him highly and want him managing us, causes fans to disagree to try belittle the mans career, which doesn't make sense to me.

The lack of trophies is a disappointment for him but when he took over Spurs had previously only qualified for the Champions League/European Cup twice in the span of 50+ years or so. Since taking over he's now qualified them for it twice in 4 years, and for the first time brought back-to back Champions League qualifications to Spurs.

Anyone who thinks he's not a top manager due to the fact that he hasn't won trophies with Spurs yet is having a laugh in my mind.

The problem with Poch for me, and one of the main reasons he gets a slagging, is he continues to downplay the importance of winning cup competitions, where winning even a league cup could push that spurs team on to a winning mentality.

If he continues to show unimportance in cups and focusing solely on gaining CL football year in year out without competing for trophies, how is he ever going to be judged as a high level manager.

History will judge the top managers by the trophies in their cabinets.

Lord TSC

astradave wrote: »

The problem with Poch for me, and one of the main reasons he gets a slagging, is he continues to downplay the importance of winning cup competitions, where winning even a league cup could push that spurs team on to a winning mentality.

This is it for me. When he was trying to say the FA Cup wasn't important before their match with us, I was stunned; Spurs are always going to struggle to win the league due to their finances, but they hit the semi-finals of the FA Cup, are at home, and before the match, Poch is saying winning the FA Cup isn't a big deal? There should be MORE hunger from Spurs than us for a cup, not less.

Lloris was echoing the sentiment as well yesterday, saying top 4 qualification is more important than any trophy. Its a small team mentality. Say what you will about Pool and Klopp, I bet you he isn't going to go into the CL Finals telling his team "Nah guys, this isn't really a big deal, we just need top four".

(Yes, I know FA and CL are not equal; point is, it's a manager setting up a mentality into his team).

Adamocovic

astradave wrote: »

The problem with Poch for me, and one of the main reasons he gets a slagging, is he continues to downplay the importance of winning cup competitions, where winning even a league cup could push that spurs team on to a winning mentality.

If he continues to show unimportance in cups and focusing solely on gaining CL football year in year out without competing for trophies, how is he ever going to be judged as a high level manager.

History will judge the top managers by the trophies in their cabinets.

The thing is I personally don't disagree with anything he has said when it comes to the League and FA Cup. I think he's talking sense.

I remember this year he was pushed on the topic, said of course he'd love to win one of the cup competitions but doing so is a little step and doesn't elevating the club to a higher level. Something I agree with him. He went on to say they are great achievements and enjoyable for the fans and players but ultimately won't raise the club stature like success in the PL and CL will, so that's where his focus lies. It's not so long ago Wigan won it and it didn't really raise them as a club.

For me it seems he wants to turn Spurs into a consistently high performing team and getting back-to-back CL is the first step. Building up the status of the club by creating a reputation like this will help them hold onto their star players and draw more attention. Arsenal will probably hit a rough patch now so they are in a perfect position to build on this and rub salt in the wounds of their rivals.

Most people even here were playing down the FA Cup a bit, saying they'd love to win it alright but the priority is league and CL. Which is echoing Poch's view.

And on this managers being judged by success in terms of trophies. He's 46 years old. He's not even close to his retirement yet to be judged. Espaynol, Southampton aren't known for trophy winning, Spurs are building a platform there.

I have no doubt he will win silverware, be it at Spurs or elsewhere.

Lord TSC

Jamie Jackson saying we're keen on Kluivert

The offical United site saying Romero, Carrick, Martial and Rashford all starting on Sunday. They had Lukaku named earlier but have since removed his name.

MagicIRL

I'd love Pochettino at United - I just love how his teams play football.

The only concern is he's won absolutely nothing as a manager. I think he'll win silverware sooner rather than later - especially with a club that has the financial strength of United, but having gone from SAF to Moyes, to LVG and now José - are fans really willing to risk not winning the league?

Personally, I would love to see him take over and gamble on winning the league with some lovely, lovely football.

Drumpot

Adamocovic wrote: »

The thing is I personally don't disagree with anything he has said when it comes to the League and FA Cup. I think he's talking sense.

I remember this year he was pushed on the topic, said of course he'd love to win one of the cup competitions but doing so is a little step and doesn't elevating the club to a higher level. Something I agree with him. He went on to say they are great achievements and enjoyable for the fans and players but ultimately won't raise the club stature like success in the PL and CL will, so that's where his focus lies. It's not so long ago Wigan won it and it didn't really raise them as a club.

For me it seems he wants to turn Spurs into a consistently high performing team and getting back-to-back CL is the first step. Building up the status of the club by creating a reputation like this will help them hold onto their star players and draw more attention. Arsenal will probably hit a rough patch now so they are in a perfect position to build on this and rub salt in the wounds of their rivals.

Most people even here were playing down the FA Cup a bit, saying they'd love to win it alright but the priority is league and CL. Which is echoing Poch's view.

And on this managers being judged by success in terms of trophies. He's 46 years old. He's not even close to his retirement yet to be judged. Espaynol, Southampton aren't known for trophy winning, Spurs are building a platform there.

I have no doubt he will win silverware, be it at Spurs or elsewhere.

Your presumption is that Poch will be able to get the desired results within a more rigid timeframe , under greater pressure and having to manage egos he doesn’t need to worry about at spurs. That’s not even to consider how he gets the respect of players who have won more things then him. Why won’t he end up like Moyes? A rabbit in the headlights? We just don’t know.

So Jose has a proven record of success everywhere he goes. Winning top honors for every club. And yet some fans still aren’t happy , I spite of clear progress and the best league finish since SAF retired. So what makes you think fans will be happy to support Poch if it takes him a few seasons to implement his strategy? You don’t think his lack of success won’t be a problem as he spends time trying to mould the team? Do you honestly think this squad has the kind of mentality or work ethics that Poch demands of his spurs side?

Let’s put the fact that United is clearly improving year on year under Jose to one side for a moment. I wouldn’t mind Poch being made manager but I don’t see any of the people pining for him having the patience to let him get the club to a position where he can do his thing. It’s ironic that people calling for Poch don’t see how this inpatient , instant gratification expectation is exactly why Poch wouldn’t work. You guys need to see instant results on the pitch. You guys benchmark united (style of football is the current fad) selectively ignoring the major issues (city spend way more) and facts (José is the most successful manager we could of gotten) that dispute your pondering on Poch.

Trigger

Adamocovic wrote: »

The thing is I personally don't disagree with anything he has said when it comes to the League and FA Cup. I think he's talking sense.

I remember this year he was pushed on the topic, said of course he'd love to win one of the cup competitions but doing so is a little step and doesn't elevating the club to a higher level. Something I agree with him. He went on to say they are great achievements and enjoyable for the fans and players but ultimately won't raise the club stature like success in the PL and CL will, so that's where his focus lies. It's not so long ago Wigan won it and it didn't really raise them as a club.

For me it seems he wants to turn Spurs into a consistently high performing team and getting back-to-back CL is the first step. Building up the status of the club by creating a reputation like this will help them hold onto their star players and draw more attention. Arsenal will probably hit a rough patch now so they are in a perfect position to build on this and rub salt in the wounds of their rivals.

Most people even here were playing down the FA Cup a bit, saying they'd love to win it alright but the priority is league and CL. Which is echoing Poch's view.

And on this managers being judged by success in terms of trophies. He's 46 years old. He's not even close to his retirement yet to be judged. Espaynol, Southampton aren't known for trophy winning, Spurs are building a platform there.

I have no doubt he will win silverware, be it at Spurs or elsewhere.

He had already achieved back to back CL before this season, so there is 3 cup competitions along with the league, he seemed to devalue the importance of the domestic cups over, let’s be honest, unachievable trophies. Winning either of those domestic cups will give an already talented squad the mentality that they are capable of winning. It will push them on.

How did you feel when Moyes was in charge and constantly lowering expectations by coming out with the same sort of sound bites. If he can’t show that he thinks the FA Cup is important and basically says it’s ok to lose a match, why would the players even give 100% in it.

yabadabado

Lord TSC wrote: »

I think we'll be buying three new players without any departures, as seems to have been the norm the last two seasons. Thats probably two new fullbacks and a center mid.

I think then if Martial goes, we buy a new attacker for the right wing.

I don't know if we'll be as desperate for a new CB tbh, unless someone like Smalling leaves. At the end of the day, our defense has been pretty solid for the last few years and as much as Smalling frustrates me, I don't know if center back is a massive priority. Especially if we could get Bailly back fulltime and maybe see Lindelof continue to develop.

If two new full backs are signed then there is absolutely no reason to keep Blind and Darmian.

I sort of agree with the point about CBs as id ld hope Bailly and Lindelof can form a partnership but plenty of work needed.
If Alderweirald is available he should be signed and is an instant improvement.Sell one of Smalling/Jones/Rojo to off set some costs.

A cm or probably 2 are needed but I think there will be one big signing there and maybe a squad cm.

I really would love to see a proper RW bought.

Ideally a case can be made for 6 players players signed but id say we will see 4 ,with a similar number leaving.
A LB ,CB,CM,RW and let Valencia/TFM fight it out for RB if it doesn't work then thats a move for the following season.RB might not be as big a problem if a proper winger was signed for RW.

pjohnson

yabadabado wrote: »

I really would love to see a proper RW bought.

Ideally a case can be made for 6 players players signed but id say we will see 4 ,with a similar number leaving.
A LB ,CB,CM,RW and let Valencia/TFM fight it out for RB if it doesn't work then thats a move for the following season.RB might not be as big a problem if a proper winger was signed for RW.

Exactly my thinking.

bangkok

Drumpot wrote: »

Your presumption is that Poch will be able to get the desired results within a more rigid timeframe , under greater pressure and having to manage egos he doesn’t need to worry about at spurs. That’s not even to consider how he gets the respect of players who have won more things then him. Why won’t he end up like Moyes? A rabbit in the headlights? We just don’t know.

So Jose has a proven record of success everywhere he goes. Winning top honors for every club. And yet some fans still aren’t happy , I spite of clear progress and the best league finish since SAF retired. So what makes you think fans will be happy to support Poch if it takes him a few seasons to implement his strategy? You don’t think his lack of success won’t be a problem as he spends time trying to mould the team? Do you honestly think this squad has the kind of mentality or work ethics that Poch demands of his spurs side?

Let’s put the fact that United is clearly improving year on year under Jose to one side for a moment. I wouldn’t mind Poch being made manager but I don’t see any of the people pining for him having the patience to let him get the club to a position where he can do his thing. It’s ironic that people calling for Poch don’t see how this inpatient , instant gratification expectation is exactly why Poch wouldn’t work. You guys need to see instant results on the pitch. You guys benchmark united (style of football is the current fad) selectively ignoring the major issues (city spend way more) and facts (José is the most successful manager we could of gotten) that dispute your pondering on Poch.

What about Harry Kane, Deli Alli, Eriksen, Danny Rose, Aurier, Lamela, Alderweild, there is as many if not more egos in the spurs dressing room than the current united one

Drumpot

bangkok wrote: »

What about Harry Kane, Deli Alli, Eriksen, Danny Rose, Aurier, Lamela, Alderweild, there is as many if not more egos in the spurs dressing room than the current united one

Being a talented player does not automatically mean you have a massive ego.

Players who have won nothing, have little expectations on their shoulders in a club that is a fraction of the size of United. that's not to say these players are probably accepting lower salaries while growing at spurs. You think its comparable ?

I would argue there are more egos at Arsenal then there are at Spurs. I also think if most those spurs players stay at Spurs it actually says that they most definitely aren't big egos.

bangkok

Drumpot wrote: »

Being a talented player does not automatically mean you have a massive ego.

Players who have won nothing, have little expectations on their shoulders in a club that is a fraction of the size of United. that's not to say these players are probably accepting lower salaries while growing at spurs. You think its comparable ?

I would argue there are more egos at Arsenal then there are at Spurs. I also think if most those spurs players stay at Spurs it actually says that they most definitely aren't big egos.

who would you say has a big ego at united? Pogba, Sanchez are the obvious ones... after that?

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

What about Harry Kane, Deli Alli, Eriksen, Danny Rose, Aurier, Lamela, Alderweild, there is as many if not more egos in the spurs dressing room than the current united one

Well, Rose and Alderwield have been frozen out of the team because they want to move on or get bigger contracts.

If we see big interest in their big 3 attacking players, we could see a bit of a mess start to brew there; which would be a Spurs issue rather than a Poch issue.

I do wonder who is calling the benching of Alderwield.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Well, Rose and Alderwield have been frozen out of the team because they want to move on or get bigger contracts.

If we see big interest in their big 3 attacking players, we could see a bit of a mess start to brew there; which would be a Spurs issue rather than a Poch issue.

I do wonder who is calling the benching of Alderwield.

he is managing it all very well though, havent heard much from Alderwield and spurs just seem to be getting on with it

you would have to assume Levy is telling the manager not to pick him

Adamocovic

Drumpot wrote: »

Your presumption is that Poch will be able to get the desired results within a more rigid timeframe , under greater pressure and having to manage egos he doesn’t need to worry about at spurs. That’s not even to consider how he gets the respect of players who have won more things then him. Why won’t he end up like Moyes? A rabbit in the headlights? We just don’t know.

So Jose has a proven record of success everywhere he goes. Winning top honors for every club. And yet some fans still aren’t happy , I spite of clear progress and the best league finish since SAF retired. So what makes you think fans will be happy to support Poch if it takes him a few seasons to implement his strategy? You don’t think his lack of success won’t be a problem as he spends time trying to mould the team? Do you honestly think this squad has the kind of mentality or work ethics that Poch demands of his spurs side?

Let’s put the fact that United is clearly improving year on year under Jose to one side for a moment. I wouldn’t mind Poch being made manager but I don’t see any of the people pining for him having the patience to let him get the club to a position where he can do his thing. It’s ironic that people calling for Poch don’t see how this inpatient , instant gratification expectation is exactly why Poch wouldn’t work. You guys need to see instant results on the pitch. You guys benchmark united (style of football is the current fad) selectively ignoring the major issues (city spend way more) and facts (José is the most successful manager we could of gotten) that dispute your pondering on Poch.

I'm sorry but you're completely off the ball here. Look back over my posts if you wish, but I'm supportive of José, and don't see how you have gotten this interpretation.

I'm not calling for José to be replaced. Said many times I believe he should stay on. My whole point was people who belittle Poch's ability and poke fun at it here because of his lack of trophies I find to be off the mark. I posted about the success he's had, then a point about how he doesn't take cup's seriously enough and still hasn't won anything was brought up. Again I replied to that.

Not once, to my memory, have I implied anything you seem to have thought in your post.

Not saying we should dump him out for Poch, and haven't said this.
My point came that people belittling Poch's ability due to a lack of trophies I don't agree with.

Thats a very talented spurs team Poch tbf and as bangkok said a better first team then Uniteds its nearly surprising they arent doing better given they only concentrate on 2 competitions

Drumpot

bangkok wrote: »

who would you say has a big ego at united? Pogba, Sanchez are the obvious ones... after that?

Any future signings worth 100mil plus are potentially big egos. You have to factor in players who will have certain expectations that Spurs players do not. Lets say United tries to sign any top player that has won trophies at other big clubs and are used to getting things their way. Say we got Neymar ? Spurs will not and have not made any of these kinds of signings.

bangkok

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats a very talented spurs team Poch tbf and as bangkok said a better first team then Uniteds its nearly surprising they arent doing better given they only concentrate on 2 competitions

very talented first 11 but they dont have the squad/money for a title challenge

Adamocovic

Adamocovic wrote: »

I'm sorry but you're completely off the ball here. Look back over my posts if you wish, but I'm supportive of José, and don't see how you have gotten this interpretation.

I'm not calling for José to be replaced. Said many times I believe he should stay on. My whole point was people who belittle Poch's ability and poke fun at it here because of his lack of trophies I find to be off the mark. I posted about the success he's had, then a point about how he doesn't take cup's seriously enough and still hasn't won anything was brought up. Again I replied to that.

Not once, to my memory, have I implied anything you seem to have thought in your post.

Not saying we should dump him out for Poch, and haven't said this.
My point came that people belittling Poch's ability due to a lack of trophies I don't agree with.

Maybe its a case of its hard to get over excited at the thoughts of him being United manager, there was a few clamouring here for him to be manager you can point to what his done but you could also say given the talent of his team he has only done the minimum he should be doing. Im not saying expected as it is spurs who arent used to qualifying for it each year.

But if you take away the team colours and just look at what is available to him talent wise then he is only doing the minimum he should as a top manager.

Adamocovic

astradave wrote: »

He had already achieved back to back CL before this season, so there is 3 cup competitions along with the league, he seemed to devalue the importance of the domestic cups over, let’s be honest, unachievable trophies. Winning either of those domestic cups will give an already talented squad the mentality that they are capable of winning. It will push them on.

How did you feel when Moyes was in charge and constantly lowering expectations by coming out with the same sort of sound bites. If he can’t show that he thinks the FA Cup is important and basically says it’s ok to lose a match, why would the players even give 100% in it.

Apologies for confusing, I meant back-to-back season appearances in the CL, phrasing was off.

Of course his focus would be on ensuring CL football again to try create a consistent presence in the tournament. We can disagree on the rest as opinions but some points from me.

You say he constantly lowers expectations, yet also you think he devalued lesser competitions to pursue ones you think to be "unachievable" for them. Surely if he believes they should be competing for these trophies you think they have no chance at he is trying to raise rather than lower expectations?

And also the Moyes comment doesn't add up at all for me. Moyes was struggling in the league and the cup. Pochettino on the other hand is proving to be one of Spurs most successful managers in terms of winning games and league position.

On the players, the players old him in high regard, I'm not going to speculate that they won't give 100% for him.

Drumpot

Adamocovic wrote: »

I'm sorry but you're completely off the ball here. Look back over my posts if you wish, but I'm supportive of José, and don't see how you have gotten this interpretation.

I'm not calling for José to be replaced. Said many times I believe he should stay on. My whole point was people who belittle Poch's ability and poke fun at it here because of his lack of trophies I find to be off the mark. I posted about the success he's had, then a point about how he doesn't take cup's seriously enough and still hasn't won anything was brought up. Again I replied to that.

Not once, to my memory, have I implied anything you seem to have thought in your post.

Not saying we should dump him out for Poch, and haven't said this.
My point came that people belittling Poch's ability due to a lack of trophies I don't agree with.

If you aren't one of the fickle fans then fair enough but the point still stands.

There is simply no way Poch would be afforded the time to do his thing. Jose has been under pressure since only a few months in the job, all that would happen is that while the football improves the lack of trophies would be thrown at him.

I don't think asking serious questions of Poch is insulting or poking fun at him either. If you want United to win leagues and champions leagues and attract the top players then you have to look at all areas of a manager, not just the selective ones that suit a narrative.

Adamocovic

Drumpot wrote: »

If you aren't one of the fickle fans then fair enough but the point still stands.

There is simply no way Poch would be afforded the time to do his thing. Jose has been under pressure since only a few months in the job, all that would happen is that while the football improves the lack of trophies would be thrown at him.

I don't think asking serious questions of Poch is insulting or poking fun at him either. If you want United to win leagues and champions leagues and attract the top players then you have to look at all areas of a manager, not just the selective ones that suit a narrative.

I agree with you here.

Time would be an issue if he did come. He wouldn't be granted as much as he has/was given with Spurs and that would cause him issues.

And I have no problem highlighting concerns like that about the idea. That's fair enough. But like you said in your last paragraph about looking at all areas of a manager and not just one, I'm not accusing you of this, but many hate the praise he gets and just use the argument of his lack of trophies to him not being of a great manager.

Adamocovic

It always seems to be Jones. Poor guy.

MD1990

Drumpot wrote: »

If you aren't one of the fickle fans then fair enough but the point still stands.

There is simply no way Poch would be afforded the time to do his thing. Jose has been under pressure since only a few months in the job, all that would happen is that while the football improves the lack of trophies would be thrown at him.

I don't think asking serious questions of Poch is insulting or poking fun at him either. If you want United to win leagues and champions leagues and attract the top players then you have to look at all areas of a manager, not just the selective ones that suit a narrative.

Pochettino took over a mid table club with a small budget compared to the rest of the top 6. Previosuly managed Espanyol.

The lack of trophies being thrown at him is unfair.

Drumpot

MD1990 wrote: »

Pochettino took over a mid table club with a small budget compared to the rest of the top 6. Previosuly managed Espanyol.

The lack of trophies being thrown at him is unfair.

Its not unfair to question his lack of top honours success, its just not the only barometer that he should be judged on.

Similar to the style of football that is being played by united and constantly mentioned as if it equates to failure on Jose's part.

I think what you will find is that some fans/pundits are incapable of weighing up all the pro's and con's of a manager/player and factoring in all the variables at play.

Trigger

MD1990 wrote: »

Pochettino took over a mid table club with a small budget compared to the rest of the top 6. Previosuly managed Espanyol.

The lack of trophies being thrown at him is unfair.

It’s more about becoming United manager than what he is doing with Spurs, they are totally different machines. No one is saying he has done a bad job with Spurs, more does he have what it takes to be United manager.

I personally am not trying to belittle his achievement of getting Spurs higher up the table and qualifying for the CL, I am questioning his mentality as a winner, and so far we have seen very little of that mentality which is mainly down to himself.