Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

xtal191

It really is a disgrace the amount of money that's been pumped into this team in the last 5 years and yet we still look miles off challenging for a league title.

pjohnson

Lord TSC wrote: »

I have to believe that the common point there is our full backs, and that if we can move better players in there, you'll see a massive improvement.

Valencia offers NOTHING on the right, and as much as Young busts his gut, his crosses weren't great today. Especially when a team parks the bus like Chelsea did today, you need more out wide that we actually have.

It'll be unpopular but who on earth was Young supposed to pick out with his crosses? Or even Valencia? Until Lukaku came on what presence did we have to cross into? Sanchez will never win many headers let alone against 3 CB's nor will Rashford or Lingard. Pogba doesn't really drive into the box so......

Our most likely chance of a goal was Matic outside the box driving it in

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

He signed Bailly and Lindelof too. Neither of them started today and Lindelof didn't even make the bench.

You wanted 2 cbs on the bench?

Lord TSC

pjohnson wrote: »

It'll be unpopular but who on earth was Young supposed to pick out with his crosses? Or even Valencia? Until Lukaku came on what presence did we have to cross into? Sanchez will never win many headers let alone against 3 CB's nor will Rashford or Lingard. Pogba doesn't really drive into the box so......

Our most likely chance of a goal was Matic outside the box driving it in

No, thats fair too.

Without Lukaku, against a packed defense, we were dead on arrival. People bemoan Fellaini but he would have been handy today.

GSPfan

Best thing Jose can do is to keep players signed by other managers as it gives him a free pass in the eyes of many when we lose!

They are all Jose’s players now. He’s had long enough to get rid of them so that excuse is dead.

I’ve learned nothing today I didn’t already know but it seems like even the fiercest Jose supporters are agreeing that it’s win or bust next year.

alchemist33

Lord TSC wrote: »

Think it was Adox who said that Pogba is the player you buy when everything else is settled and working, and it's true in hindsight. If Pogba went to a PSG or Barca, where the rest of the team around him is a class up and he can saunter round the field, he'd look amazing.

But put him as THE playmaker of the game, THE man you're relying on to be special, and the reality is he can't handle that pressure.....

Very true, and it begs the question why in the name of God did we spunk so much money on him, not bothering to negotiate as if he was the answer to everything.

But I don't even know if it's his fault. For the last few years United has been the place flair players cone to die. We haven't got a tune out of anyone except some defensive players. Anyone who comes with or seems to develop creativity quickly loses it. Rashford has regressed, Martial and Pogba are more often uninterested than not, Sanchez is a shadow of his former self.
I'm not convinced Jose can improve things but giving him one more year is a better option than changin right now. Only one more year though - if after that we're not challenging for the top titles we need a hungrier, more flexible manager.

Cantona's Collars

pjohnson wrote: »

It'll be unpopular but who on earth was Young supposed to pick out with his crosses? Or even Valencia? Until Lukaku came on what presence did we have to cross into? Sanchez will never win many headers let alone against 3 CB's nor will Rashford or Lingard. Pogba doesn't really drive into the box so......

Our most likely chance of a goal was Matic outside the box driving it in

Compare that with Chelsea who struck us with terror when Hazard went anywhere near our penalty area even if he was alone,he ran at defenders. United players saw someone in a blue shirt, stopped and passed square or back. At least Martial tried to run at them when he came on.
You don't already always need a big CF to get on the end of crosses,a bit of quality from out wide can undo any defence,not our hit and hope tactics by the wide men (when they decided to cross)

pjohnson

GSPfan wrote: »

I’ve learned nothing today I didn’t already know but it seems like even the fiercest Jose supporters are agreeing that it’s win or bust next year.

Naturally. Its just logic, going from 6th to 2nd in the league is a clear improvement even if some choose to deny it is or claim its a considerably worse season. Now the only way to improve next year is to get 1st place.

Cantona's Collars

I said it to mates that United would find it hard to pick up their performance after the piss poor stuff they played and barely going through the motions in seeing out the last few league games.

pjohnson

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Compare that with Chelsea who struck us with terror when Hazard went anywhere near our penalty area even if he was alone,he ran at defenders. United players saw someone in a blue shirt, stopped and passed square or back. At least Martial tried to run at them when he came on.
You don't already always need a big CF to get on the end of crosses,a bit of quality from out wide can undo any defence,not our hit and hope tactics by the wide men (when they decided to cross)

Chelsea utilised Giroud as an outball many many times. Altho Herrera nicked the ball from him twice while he was holding off Smalling/Jones. He always drew one of our CB's away to give Hazard more room.


We had Sanchez CF, Rashford wandering wide right and Lingard drifting to #10.

eagle eye

pjohnson wrote: »

Naturally. Its just logic, going from 6th to 2nd in the league is a clear improvement even if some choose to deny it is or claim its a considerably worse season. Now the only way to improve next year is to get 1st place.

It's going to be very hard to win the league next season.



Imo what United need is to be contending seriously on all fronts. I'm not a United fan but I'd imagine that if United are close to a league title, semi-finalists at a minimum in the Champions league and get to a domestic cup final that it would be a satisfactory season?

pjohnson

eagle eye wrote: »

It's going to be very hard to win the league next season.



Imo what United need is to be contending seriously on all fronts. I'm not a United fan but I'd imagine that if United are close to a league title, semi-finalists at a minimum in the Champions league and get to a domestic cup final that it would be a satisfactory season?

No.

I'd say the only acceptable alternate scenario is to push City extremely close in the title race and win both CL & FA Cup. Next year its time to shít or get off the pot.

Lord TSC

eagle eye wrote: »

It's going to be very hard to win the league next season.



Imo what United need is to be contending seriously on all fronts. I'm not a United fan but I'd imagine that if United are close to a league title, semi-finalists at a minimum in the Champions league and get to a domestic cup final that it would be a satisfactory season?

With a boring grind out of those results? Maybe not.

If Jose can suddenly up the play style, probably.

Andrew Beef

We look clueless in the final third; it’s the same old story.

Sanchez is starting to look like a white elephant, unfortunately; possibly our Rodney Marsh.

And Pogba is the true villain; the man is a fraud and a disgrace. £90m? Sir Alex was right...a bit of spoofing over in Italy and we’re conned into ponying up a world record fee. On a cost/output basis, the man is the worst signing in the history of football.

I am really depressed after today.

pjohnson

Lord TSC wrote: »

With a boring grind out of those results? Maybe not.

If Jose can suddenly up the play style, probably.

Even then he would need silverware aswell.

GSPfan

Lord TSC wrote: »

If Jose can suddenly up the play style, probably.

Never going to happen.

Cantona's Collars

pjohnson wrote: »

Chelsea utilised Giroud as an outball many many times. Altho Herrera nicked the ball from him twice while he was holding off Smalling/Jones. He always drew one of our CB's away to give Hazard more room.


We had Sanchez CF, Rashford wandering wide right and Lingard drifting to #10.

My point was that they were willing to run at United defenders when they got the chance,for the most part United went forward a bit, stopped,went sideways and allowed Chelsea funnel back. As for the right hand side,once more it was the graveyard for attacks.

Cantona's Collars

First domestic cup final Jose lost in his time in England.

pjohnson

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

My point was that they were willing to run at United defenders when they got the chance,for the most part United went forward a bit, stopped,went sideways and allowed Chelsea funnel back. As for the right hand side,once more it was the graveyard for attacks.

Yep but we never had the ball stick. Sanchez, Lingard, Rashford all tried to dribble and lost it. Had we Lukaku he might/would have held the ball up and occupied defenders to possibly allow a runner get going.

Again this move was regularly used early in the year to free Rashford/Martial to run in. But has been lost/reduced in the formation change.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Gave it some bit of a go in the 2nd half. Too many players didn't quite bring their A-game.

Thought Smalling, Matic, Young and Lingard (2nd half) did well. Lingard was finding space when he was replaced so thought that was a poor decision by Jose.

Other than that we've seen these failings before. Rashford was awful in the 1st half and his finishing really needs some work. Pogba was anonymous until the game opened up in the second half. Alexis poor. Valencia, as usual, got thro a lot of work but rarely put in a decent ball. Jones very poor for goal.

Chelsea were very well set up and aided by the fact that Lukaku wasn't fit to start.

Interesting summer ahead. It's fairly obvious where united are short so hopefully we see investment.

secman

That squad are definitely not believing in Mourinho not a fcking chance. Sooner the better the inevitable happens, it doesnt matter what money it's thrown at him, an absolute pathetic season with dire performances, Theatre of dreams...... we can only dream of attractive football.

Irish test cricket was more entertaining ffs

titan18

pjohnson wrote:

It'll be unpopular but who on earth was Young supposed to pick out with his crosses? Or even Valencia? Until Lukaku came on what presence did we have to cross into? Sanchez will never win many headers let alone against 3 CB's nor will Rashford or Lingard. Pogba doesn't really drive into the box so......

I'd agree with that in general, but a few minutes after Lukaku and Martial came on, Martial got free down the left and had Young on the overlap. Passed to Young and was perfectly lined up to cross the ball first time on his left foot.

What does Young do? He brings the ball back on his right foot and passes the ball back to Martial, and attack goes nowhere.

Lukaku was on the pitch at this point so no excuse there. He's just sh1t.

Cantona's Collars

pjohnson wrote: »

Yep but we never had the ball stick. Sanchez, Lingard, Rashford all tried to dribble and lost it. Had we Lukaku he might/would have held the ball up and occupied defenders to possibly allow a runner get going.

I spoke before about United never really getting the third man running,an old tactic but still so effective. It's all well and good having pace but when these lads are all 40 yards from goal and playing as individuals then we see performances like today. At times it was as if the players met for the first time.
One of Pogba's strengths is his running into the box,we saw so little of that this season. The City game was the exception lately when he did it in the second half and turned the game. Today was set up for a similar situation but it never happened. A lack of imagination in our play is killing the team,we can't blame no Lukaku in it for that.

Andrew Beef

Poor old Lukaku didn’t look fit. Martial was up for it when he came on. I thought that Matic was solid.

But my overriding feeling is that Pogba should be run out of town. He is an abomination. £90m! Ninety bloody million. Two years of toxic substandard rubbish and all we hear is excuses. There is no more room for excuses. The game is up. There is an opportunity cost to having him in the first team. We should take what we can for him and consign him to the Kleberson/Eric Djemba-Djemba scrapheap.

I am livid.

Zeek12

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

He signed Bailly and Lindelof too. Neither of them started today and Lindelof didn't even make the bench.

Yeah £60 million spent on these two guys, but yet they're both considered inferior to Smalling and Jones?

With all the money United have splashed over last few years, its shocking we go into a Final relying on that CB partnership.
Smalling and Jones have never looked convincing together....and never will cut it.

How on earth are we going into crunch games relying on those centre backs....and expect that they can nullify a top class player like Hazard?

You can throw in another £17 million spent on Rojo who's also pretty average (Ok, I know - not Jose's signing).

We have to stop wasting time and funds on these long shot defensive signings. And get at least one world class centre back

Jose's success has always been built on a sold defensive unit. At the moment we dont have it

bangkok

The back 5 today were all signed by fergie!!

Cantona's Collars

bangkok wrote: »

The back 5 today were all signed by fergie!!

And the best fella with the ball at his feet is arguably De Gea.

Trigger

Only caught the last 30 mins because of a family do and it was fückin dreadful, no urgency at all in the play..

I don’t know what to think anymore, pretty fûcking disgusted at the players and Manager..,

I need more feckin beer!

Lithium93_

astradave wrote: »

Only caught the last 30 mins because of a family do and it was fückin dreadful, no urgency at all in the play..

I don’t know what to think anymore, pretty fûcking disgusted at the players and Manager..,

I need more feckin beer!

Best way I can some up the game; the equivalent of watching paint dry.

What beer? Just out of curiousity?

How Soon Is Now

Just finished dinner so much salt i feel fairly crap dunno what made me think coming back in here and remembering what i had been watching early on would make me feel any better :pac:

Cantona's Collars

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Best way I can some up the game; the equivalent of watching paint dry.

What beer? Just out of curiousity?

Cup final beer,flat, unsatisfying and makes you feel sick.

How Soon Is Now

Just reading what Jose said after the match thing is he's actually not wrong in a lot of it.

Chelsea had the penalty that was it. For all we know De Gea could of saved whatever Hazard threw at him if Jones didn't take him out. Chances are he would of scored but you never know!!

United where comfortable enough apart from when Hazard had the ball. The issue was we didn't have a plan with no Lukaku up front. Passing crossing was awful as it has been on many occasions this season.

With out decent wingers or full backs our wide play is none exsistant. So everything is threw the middle and full of loads of short sloppy passing which is incredibly easy for a team as physical as Chelsea.

If we can bring the right players into the back four after that if things don't work you have to feel there are no more excuses for the team or the boss if things go wrong.

castletownman

Valencia could be rolled the ball into space, have time to compose himself, see the target of Megamind or an Easter Island Statue, and still manage to hit the heels of the first man.

A failed winger that couldn't handle the prwssure of the 7 jersey, who was converted into a full-back for his safety first approach and whose captaincy is an indictment of the legends that went before him.

His ever presence is the biggest issue to be addressed when compared to rivals.

SEPT 23 1989

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Just reading what Jose said after the match thing is he's actually not wrong in a lot of it.

Chelsea had the penalty that was it. For all we know De Gea could of saved whatever Hazard threw at him if Jones didn't take him out. Chances are he would of scored but you never know!!

United where comfortable enough apart from when Hazard had the ball. The issue was we didn't have a plan with no Lukaku up front. Passing crossing was awful as it has been on many occasions this season.

With out decent wingers or full backs our wide play is none exsistant. So everything is threw the middle and full of loads of short sloppy passing which is incredibly easy for a team as physical as Chelsea.

If we can bring the right players into the back four after that if things don't work you have to feel there are no more excuses for the team or the boss if things go wrong.

Jose said united gave it their all

So is this the best United can do?

SEPT 23 1989

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Jose said united gave it their all

So is this the best United can do?

Are those things mutually exclusive

Lord TSC

Reports that we've a pre-contract agreement in place with Talisca.

The Besiktas manager confirmed today that Talisca is leaving, saying he would be "an opponent to Cenk Tosun" who plays for Everton, so it looks like he's off to a PL club.

Now some credible (according to Reddit) Turkish reporter is saying he's coming to us.

Don't know much about him other than he's a really solid midfielder on Fifa....

EDIT: Reading now. He's on loan from Benfica, and now have to deal with them. Though Besiktas actually have a buy option for €21m, and could potential buy him to try and turn a profit on him if we try and pay more.

Whatsisname

Lord TSC wrote: »

Reports that we've a pre-contract agreement in place with Talisca.

The Besiktas manager confirmed today that Talisca is leaving, saying he would be "an opponent to Cenk Tosun" who plays for Everton, so it looks like he's off to a PL club.

Now some credible (according to Reddit) Turkish reporter is saying he's coming to us.

Don't know much about him other than he's a really solid midfielder on Fifa....

Pretty sure he's tall as **** too. Meets Jose's 6ft requirement :pac:

EDIT: He's 6ft 3, I'm 6ft 3, sign me up.

adox

astradave wrote: »

Only caught the last 30 mins because of a family do and it was fückin dreadful, no urgency at all in the play..

I don’t know what to think anymore, pretty fûcking disgusted at the players and Manager..,

I need more feckin beer!

You actually caught the best of the game as well.

That will tell you how awful we were in the first half.

While most of us are sick and tired of this group of players I really have huge reservations about the manager.

Do the club hand him another £150 million for an all or bust season next season only to hand the reigns to someone else the following season if it fails?

Despite our second place the club still feels like it’s in a mess. Jose has had two years to preside over shaping it and it looks miles off being where we would expectantly hope it to be.

I was actually more optimistic at the end of last season when we finished 6th than I am this season having finished second.

I’m not really looking forward to next season with any joy or hope at all.

I said after th CL exit that I thought it was the beginning of the end for Jose at the club. Nothing has changed my mind unfortunately. He’s defended his players when they have performed disgracefully. He’s called them out(rightfully imo) to try and get a reaction from them when they have been awful and that hasn’t worked either.

The natives at Old Trafford won’t be long turning on him next season I’d say and I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t last the season.

The question is. Where the hell will the club be at that stage? Huge budgets invested in the squad. No momentum or cohesion in the football.

The pieces will have to be put back together again with another £300-£400 invested in a failing squad under Jose.

Things will have improved since the Van Gaal era but not by as much as most would have hoped and certainly not reflective of the money spent and the manager employed.

The road back to the top seems as far away as it ever has since Fergie retired.

fitzer1982

Game was always going to be 1-0, whoever scored first was going to win. Jones was piss poor giving away the penalty. We didn't stand a chance of equalising, most times we attacked they had 10 men behind the ball, exactly what we would have done if we'd scored first.

Lots of complaints about Valencia bit in fairness a lot of the time he had the ball he was flat footed against two defenders and nobody to aim for in the box until Lukaku came on and them we stopped attacking down the right for some reason. We seriously need a new left back who at a basic level can hit a ball with their left foot. Defending against young must be a dream, every single time he cuts back on his right.

Pogba had some moments, agree with the point that he needs a world class team around him, he won't carry us.

Sanchez is so underwhelming, anytime he gets the ball he I expect him to give it away, clearly devoid of any confidence.

Hazard was the difference, everytime he got the ball he was dangerous and we looked like we were scared of him.

I wasn't really excited or looking forward to the game, only game I really enjoyed this season was away to Crystal Palace. We've been horrid to watch for 4 years now, although start of the season showed promises. If I was a betting man my money would be on next season being Jose's last and city crusing to the league again. But hey at least we have champions league to look forward to.

Robson99

secman wrote: »

That squad are definitely not believing in Mourinho not a fcking chance. Sooner the better the inevitable happens, it doesnt matter what money it's thrown at him, an absolute pathetic season with dire performances, Theatre of dreams...... we can only dream of attractive football.

Irish test cricket was more entertaining ffs

Agree fully. It looks like he has lost the players. No of them seem to give a **** since xmas. Playing as individuals. There isnt one player that has improved under Mourinho. Our attacking play has completely gone to pieces since the start of the season. None of his signings apart from Lukaku appear to be working out
If he is still there next season then he would want to hit the ground running or else he will be gone by xmas

Lord TSC

Robson99 wrote: »

If he is still there next season then he would want to hit the ground running or else he will be gone by xmas

What would make you ever think United will sack a manager until CL is mathematically gone? We showed with Moyes and LVG we won't sack managers midway through a season....

Robson99

Lord TSC wrote: »

What would make you ever think United will sack a manager until CL is mathematically gone? We showed with Moyes and LVG we won't sack managers midway through a season....

What makes you think we will get out of our group??? We could be out if that by xmas.
It wont take a lot for the Old Trafford faithful to get on his back either at this stage with the **** football

adox

Lord TSC wrote: »

What would make you ever think United will sack a manager until CL is mathematically gone? We showed with Moyes and LVG we won't sack managers midway through a season....

While I’m not saying it will happen, I hope that the club have learned their lesson and aren’t so rigid in their reasoning for dismissing a manager. The above criteria were both huge mistakes from the club and their indecisiveness or lack of action in addressing the manager situations at the times did huge damage to the forward progress of the club. Moyes especially should have been gone before Christmas in his first season, harsh as it sounds.


It was obvious to the dogs on the street that he wasn’t working out and the players had no belief in him. That and the utterly turgid football. We may have clawed things back from the precipice if we had acted earlier rather than waiting for it to fall off the cliff before acting.

I would hope that a bit more forward thinking has been taken on board by the club. The time for running one of the biggest clubs in the world like amateurs is well and truly over.

Trigger

Isn’t Talisca not an AM?

How Soon Is Now

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Jose said united gave it their all

So is this the best United can do?

Todays performance was very similar to previous games this season. What we didnt have for the vast majority of the game though was an actual forward to play the ball up to. So when we actually got into there end of the pitch no one seemed to know what to do with the ball. Ya that happens when Lukaku is there as well but more often then not the guy works his arse off to try and make something out of a long ball.

Jose said it himself we had no outlet up front for the system to work so why did we not try and play football then? Obviously things have gone to far with the players we have that there either not good enough to play to this kinda system or there being held back in some way and half of them cant play the way there been instructed.

I dont know whos fault it is at this stage i think theres a lot of factors to blame for the current issues but i still think mentally a lot of the players are very single minded and weak and its obviously getting to Jose.

Trigger

Also reports that Fellaini rejected our contract offer

How Soon Is Now

Lord TSC wrote: »

Reports that we've a pre-contract agreement in place with Talisca.

The Besiktas manager confirmed today that Talisca is leaving, saying he would be "an opponent to Cenk Tosun" who plays for Everton, so it looks like he's off to a PL club.

Now some credible (according to Reddit) Turkish reporter is saying he's coming to us.

Don't know much about him other than he's a really solid midfielder on Fifa....

EDIT: Reading now. He's on loan from Benfica, and now have to deal with them. Though Besiktas actually have a buy option for €21m, and could potential buy him to try and turn a profit on him if we try and pay more.

Hes very fun to play with on Pro evo to actually :pac:

He looks like a bit of a god on youtube as well but ya we know how that goes.

adox

adox wrote: »

While I’m not saying it will happen, I hope that the club have learned their lesson and aren’t so rigid in their reasoning for dismissing a manager. The above criteria were both huge mistakes from the club and their indecisiveness or lack of action in addressing the manager situations at the times did huge damage to the forward progress of the club. Moyes especially should have been gone before Christmas in his first season, harsh as it sounds.


It was obvious to the dogs on the street that he wasn’t working out and the players had no belief in him. That and the utterly turgid football. We may have clawed things back from the precipice if we had acted earlier rather than waiting for it to fall off the cliff before acting.

I would hope that a bit more forward thinking has been taken on board by the club. The time for running one of the biggest clubs in the world like amateurs is well and truly over.

Auld Moyes was locked into a 7 year contract some how and I guess they had to wait to sack him as it was probably a considerable difference in money, LVG got a stay of exectction but the rumours of Jose were from months out there may have been stuff about Jose not being able to manage another club that season?

If it comes to it next season I doubt the club will not be willing to act if they have decided upon the action

Cantona's Collars

Now we know why Fellaini wasn't playing today.He was moving out of his house (according to one of the red tops)

TheDoc

Ah lads

Just in the door. Well on my way. Thank absolutele **** I was having cans watching that with friends and had a good laugh in the hours after.

You can’t aleays be objective watching it on s group drinking but what I took from it was just the usual. Dreadful performance , 20 minutes huffing and puffing but eith no purpose or pattern and hoping for the best. Thought Rashford was dire, Young was wasteful and Sanchez was pathetic. Pogba.... that free header.

Just summed up the season for me. Talk all you want about progress “oh it’s a final” “oh we finished second” but it’s all just bollox an nothing tangible or any foundations. Miles off the pace in second and a completely garbage final performance.

Should be thankful that train wreck of a season is done and looking onward but actually just such an air of resignation that it’s another season of dog ****, grinding and not being good enough to come.

Clearly a rake load of cans is how to cope with watching United because **** me I didn’t care as much as I normally do tonight