Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

KH25

GSPfan wrote: »

KH25 wrote: »

No update on Sandro so? Thought all the stories said it would be announced after the FA cup. I guess they didn’t mention how long after...

And these stories are normally so accurate!

I’ll at least give it until the pre season tour before I start worrying.

I’m studying so looking for anything other than the team’s performance to talk about

pjohnson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Did Herera not start the season maybe I'm misremembering.

Although point still stands with Miki

He was coming of the bench. Think he only started starting when Mkhitaryan forgot how to kick a ball and/or Pogba got suspended iirc. We definitely started games with Pog, Matic and Mkhi.

secman

I'm almost 61 now and from the age of single digits I've always loved when we reached the FA cup final... the sheer excitement of it , the build up , the match day, the wins and of course the losses. But yesterday I wasn't excited, feared what might happen, would it be another dire performance ? And it happened, felt numb watching it... fcking angry afterwards too. Glory Hunter ! I offered up holy communion as a kid for them to win the league , I remember vividly being relegated from old first division... something just ain't right.... manager and players are responsible but buck always stops at the top.

Drumpot

Zeek12 wrote: »

It's a bit more nuanced than that.

Pogba on his own was unlikely to solve our midfield issues. Even if he was playing at a consistent level.
At Juve he had Pirlo and Vidal alongside him.

So why blow so much money on one player?
Definitely agree with you that its not a matter of just throwing money at it. This transfer proves that point completely.

We need to sign the right kind of players to get a balanced squad.

Pogba needs real quality around him in MF - so he's liberated to push on and support the attack. Which is his natural game.

Without that a player like Pogba is just a luxury we can ill afford.

And his performance level is really inconsistent anyway.
Mourinho will have to manage that and get more from him.

Agree with GPSfan on the defensive situation.
Many of these players are either regressing or ageing.

Very few if any of our defenders would get into any decent PL or European side.

This sort of gets to the heart of one of my concerns and it’s that the clubs signings are not all primarily focused on what the team needs... Did anybody watch a Jose team actually play football before making him manager?

Pogba and Sanchez are obviously quality players and I don’t think anybody was unhappy they were signed. The thing I wonder about was where they priority positions and players that the manager wanted. Fans would never be unhappy with this kind of signing so what can a manager say?

So then the next question is why is Jose manager if they club is going to buy players who don’t fit the kind of teams he builds? City are supporting Peps ethos 100%, do people honestly think united are buying players who will help Jose do what he does best? The talk is of “the United way” but Jose never had a team playing that style of football so how can the owners or fans be surprised with what we are getting? . It’s like the club is signing exciting players and saying “see we want exciting football” and they are telling the manager to make it work!!

DM_7

This season, 2nd, last 16 europe, FA Cup Final.

Key difficult moments in the season were where the team could not deal with teams prepared to sit and wait. United rarely took risks to get goals as they were terrified of what would happen in transition (see Seville at home).

Team found it easier to deal with teams who took them on and could go for their weakness. Some very good results against rival sides as the season went on.

On appearances, players like Jesse Lingard and Smalling played in 40+, Mata playing 40, Young and Valencia near 40. They were 5 of the key possible 13 outfield players on game day at United this season. For next season that has to be a concern and shows a lot still has to be done with the team.

Key players like Lukaku, Sanchez and Pogba can produce more but the regular supporting cast is, to be fair, less than special.

The use inconsistent players like Rashford (over 50) and Martial (over 40) trying to join in and provide big moments was better this season than previous.

United need the latter to grow more next season and with time become starters on a regualr basis. Then need to improve on the first batch of players. A third quality forward and a new full back would be a huge improvement. The right hand side is the place to look.

On the manager, I really don't think that is the place to look at changes right now. The style question is over stated based on the players United have. A few seasons of focused transfers rather than reacting to who agents want to move around would help the club.

GSPfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And I'm not saying the defence doesn't need an overhaul i'm just not seeing the narrative it was way worse this season

I said the defense has fallen badly, in the context of priorities. I agree it hasn’t got noticeably worse but I think it has leap frogged midfield in the area which I feel needs the greatest level of attention now. That is not because midfield got sorted, but moreso because age is catching up on two of our starting 4 and the others are playing musical chairs with the centre back positions.

Valencia for me has definitely been a bit more reserved as the season progressed but that could also be because he has no support on that wing. Both Val and Young will be 33 when the season starts and Young is notorious for being injured so I am worried big time about those positions.

Andrew Beef

I’d take De Rossi from Roma in a heartbeat notwithstanding his age. We need a classy link-man.

Shaw should be played at leftback. A rightback and centre-back should be signed.

GSPfan

Where has this notion that the club are buying players for marketing purposes come from?

Just cause people are saying it doesn’t make it true. Jose has approved of every signing the club has made for him and without an actual quote or story to suggest otherwise then that notion needs to end. He is the manager, not head coach, so he doesn’t have someone buy players for him. He gives a list and Ed works off the list. He said so himself.

Not sure if I'm more annoyed about yesterday than I am about the Seville game.

Painful

adox

Drumpot wrote: »

This sort of gets to the heart of one of my concerns and it’s that the clubs signings are not all primarily focused on what the team needs... Did anybody watch a Jose team actually play football before making him manager?

Pogba and Sanchez are obviously quality players and I don’t think anybody was unhappy they were signed. The thing I wonder about was where they priority positions and players that the manager wanted. Fans would never be unhappy with this kind of signing so what can a manager say?

So then the next question is why is Jose manager if they club is going to buy players who don’t fit the kind of teams he builds? City are supporting Peps ethos 100%, do people honestly think united are buying players who will help Jose do what he does best? The talk is of “the United way” but Jose never had a team playing that style of football so how can the owners or fans be surprised with what we are getting? . It’s like the club is signing exciting players and saying “see we want exciting football” and they are telling the manager to make it work!!

Do you honestly think that someone at the club other than Jose is signing the players?

You are the only person I have heard come up with this.

jk23

Seamus Coleman and Danny rose need to be signed. The two full backs that Utd have are not good enough

jk23

jk23 wrote: »

Seamus Coleman and Danny rose need to be signed. The two full backs that Utd have are not good enough

It's incredible how much limitation Tony V has provided on the right hand side.
He has to go.

jk23

M!Ck^ wrote: »

It's incredible how much limitation Tony V has provided on the right hand side.
He has to go.

Especially for a player who started off as a winger. He seems to be caught in limbo as not one or the other

GSPfan

I’m going to stick up for Valencia here as I think he has been pretty good in an otherwise bad period. He still needs to be replaced but he’s one of the good ones.

Liam McPoyle

M!Ck^ wrote: »

It's incredible how much limitation Tony V has provided on the right hand side.
He has to go.

Antonio Valencia, where attacks go to die.


For the amount of ball he sees his end product is nothing short of disgraceful.

jk23

jk23 wrote: »

Especially for a player who started off as a winger. He seems to be caught in limbo as not one or the other

He just stunts possession, It's like he sees the comer post and every single time he turns back around and moves the ball inside.

He no longer has any vision, and his crossing ability is pretty much gone.

And whats so frustrating is that 70% of our attacks are funneled through him.

Lukakau could have scored double the amount of goals this season if he actually got some decent supply from the right.

Tbf to Ashley Young, his age is against him but at least he can try and cross the ball into the box.

jk23

M!Ck^ wrote: »

He just stunts possession, It's like he sees the comer post and every single time he turns back around and moves the ball inside.

He no longer has any vision, and his crossing ability is pretty much gone.

And whats so frustrating is that 70% of our attacks are funneled through him.

Lukakau could have scored double the amount of goals this season if he actually got some decent supply from the right.

Tbf to Ashley Young, his age is against him but at least he can try and cross the ball into the box.

I agree with you about young, he has a huge tendency to cut in on his right to cross but at least when he gets back on to his right foot it usually is a dangerous ball.

If both Valencia and Young were in their primes they would be playing as wingers not wing backs.

deaddonkey15

jk23 wrote: »

Seamus Coleman and Danny rose need to be signed. The two full backs that Utd have are not good enough

We need to sign better full backs than those two.

Lord TSC

[Paul Hirst] AC Milan lining up move for Fellaini. They've offered him a three-year deal. Fred is thought to be of interest to United. Mourinho is also an admirer of Talisca, and he also wants to sign two full-backs this summer, with Danny Rose and Alex Sandro on his shortlist

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

We need to sign better full backs than those two.

I agree with you also donkey. I just think anything is better than what we have at the moment.

I nearly pulled my hair out watching Valenicia yesterday.

DM_7

M!Ck^ wrote: »

He just stunts possession, It's like he sees the comer post and every single time he turns back around and moves the ball inside.

He no longer has any vision, and his crossing ability is pretty much gone.

And whats so frustrating is that 70% of our attacks are funneled through him.

Lukakau could have scored double the amount of goals this season if he actually got some decent supply from the right.

Tbf to Ashley Young, his age is against him but at least he can try and cross the ball into the box.

Don't overlook the reason he is reluctant. He is the only right sided player, has nobody to link with and (imo) under instruction to retain possession. He can not be caught up field in a challenge as nobody can cover for him.

Mitch Connor

Drumpot wrote: »

Perhaps I missed your posts where you had a counter balance to your negative narrative on Jose so maybe this will help us clear up this understanding:

1. What have been the positives you have taken from the season ?
2. What season do you feel where the team closest to challenging for the league since SAF retired ? Please elaborate.
3. Why do you feel Jose was able to win top honour's at every other club but United ? If you think he is "past it" do you accept that that there is a strong chance that he is not "past it"?
4. Do you accept that the issues of the squad/team may not be down mainly to the manager ?
5. What role/responsibility do you feel the owners/CEO have played in the state of the club since they took on more responsibilities when Gill/SAF left ?
6. How do you feel Man City's spending (more then 30% more most seasons) will affect any United managers ability to challenge for the top trophies?
7. How do you feel Man City's spending will affect a United manager getting their target if both clubs are after the same player ?
8. Do you think the United manager chooses what players are signed or that they are involved on a lesser capacity but do get some input.
9. Do you think the club ever signs players for reasons other then enhancing the squad? (marketing, opportunistic, cock up by Woodward)

Very straight forward questions. I am genuinely interested to see how you think about these things. You can ask me anything on Jose, I don't mind qualifying my opinions. .

All the other "Jose out" brigade are welcome to address these questions aswell.

1. Very few to be honest. Lingard's performances are an obvious one and the leadership/attitude of Lukaku another.
2. In terms of league positions it is this season, but in terms of actually competing for the title it isn't all that different from LVGs first season where we were in contention points wise for most of the season iirc, until an absolute capitulation in the last month or so. We've put no more pressure on the league winner this season than we have any other season.
3. Maybe football has evolved and become a more difficult beast to win in over the last few seaons, with City and others raising the bar. I do think his other teams played, for the most part, better football than we have seen from his United sides, but I see nothing in his approach to the matches that indicates the United players are playing a style alien to what Jose wants. If this is the style of football Jose wants, I don't see success in it. And I don't see why I should think this isn't the style he wants.
4. There are issues with the squad, I freely and vocally admit this - but he has had hundreds of millions to fix the squad, and we are still playing Young and Valencia at full back and Jones/Smalling CB. He hasn't signed full backs, and the centre backs he has signed he isn't playing, for whatever reason. That is at least in some part on Jose. Even taking into account the squad issues, they should only become a big issue in the biggest games - they should not be issues that stop us from getting points at Hundersfield, Brighton, Newcastle etc - they should not be issues stopping us from laying a finger on Seville. The level of performance is lower than the quality of the squad, and a manager (one of the best paid managers in the world) should be getting more than the sum of the parts, not less.
5. I've long been a critic of Woodward, even though I have been consistently told in here that I don't know what I am talking about and Woodward is one of the best around. I think Woodward was an issue for Moyes, a bit of an issue for LVG but less of an issue for Jose. I think Woodward has only signed players Mourinho has wanted signed. Maybe he missed out on some targets - Peresic - and maybe he hasn't been able to get the owners to stump up 100million more for fullbacks. There are still issues there, but you could also argue Mourinho is still in the job cause of Woodward not being strong enough or visionary enough. Again though, I feel Mourinho has been backed and supported well enough to consider Woodward and the owners should be able to expect better of him.
6. City's spending helps them massively, obviously. But I also feel Pep is simply a better manager than Jose, or proviing to be so far over the last two years. If you swapped Jose for Pep I think the points difference between United and City would be very different. I think Pep would have gotten a lot more out of Martial, Rashford, Lukaku, Sanchez and Pogba. Even if you consider just the spending, that should only become an issue when you play City. United outspend the rest. If we can't expect to beat City cause of their spending then logic says no one bar City can expect to beat us. And we've spent a fortune, its not just City's results that are far better than ours, their football is too.
7. We don't know that they are targetting the same players - but we both went for Sanchez, we got him. Talk they wanted Pogba but they never got a sniff agasint us. Otherside - Jorginho was/is apparently a target of both clubs and apparently the reason City are favourites to get him is not because of money, but because they play a astyle of football that he feels will suit him better. United have shown they will offer more than City, so money doesn't seem to be an issue when it comes to contracts.
8. I think Mata was signed because Woodward needed a win. I think Falcao was signed as a Woodward signing. Maybe Pogba was a club signing. For the rest I think the players the club have signed have been signed because the manager has asked for them. I don't believe woodward is routinely leading our transfer strategy - and we have had no previous talk of Jose being overruled by some transfer commitee. Maybe the fella we got in from Juve last summer is pointing at some change towards that, I don't know. My position would be any signings this summer are signings that Jose has asked for. Do you think it different?
9. I think there could be some arguement that Pogba was a marketing signing, but I personally don't buy it. We expect better from Pogba, but that is just it - United spent big on a player that was considered to be the next great midfielder in football. Its not worked out for us, but I think the club expected he would be our superstar leader on the pitch. I don't see how Matic, Lindelof, Bailly, Mkhitarya, Lukaku and others could be considered marketing signings. As previously said, I do think Mata was a woodward signing, fellaini too (i think Woodward badly let Moyes down) but since then, I think the club have very much pushed for sigings the manager has asked for (Maybe falcao being the most arguable)

As i have previously said, I was probably the most vocal in here in calling for Jose. But I just don't think it is working out. I don't think Jose has the passion, desire or intensity to turn things around. Comparing the football from February last year to now, I don't see evidence that Jose is working us towards a winiing style that is a tweak away from clicking. Same as I said towards the end of LVG, it was the same issues being apparent month after month. its not different now. We look back at all the poor performances and it is the same issues again and again. We are slow on the ball, slow in transition and static in the final third - nothing in Jose's approach indicates that the players are completely and utterly failing to implement his vision.

Maybe a summer of new signings will see a different United next season, but I honestly don't see where the evidence is to support an opinion that this time next year we will be talking about a United side that were up there with the best attacking sides in Europe, rather than just a more expensive side still looking to grind out wins by a single goal.

Drumpot

adox wrote: »

Do you honestly think that someone at the club other than Jose is signing the players?

You are the only person I have heard come up with this.

Do you honestly think Jose says “I want Pogba” and the clubmakes it happen!

Do you honestly think Moyes said when he joined “do you know the one player I would love us to sign this summer is Fellaini”?

And then in January he said “do you know I have never played a formation that can suit Mata but I would love to add him to the team”.

Do you think van gal signed Herrera and Shaw when the club had been scouting them for seasons and had actually agreed to sign them Becker van gal arrived???

I could go on but you don’t seem to accept that there are elements of the running of the club we don’t know about. There is enough evidence to suggest that managers give input and will publicly back any signings but that the club has its own agenda.

I can’t believe some people haven’t considered this ...

Trigger

Drumpot wrote: »

Do you honestly think Jose says “I want Pogba” and the clubmakes it happen!

Do you honestly think Moyes said when he joined “do you know the one player I would love us to sign this summer is Fellaini”?

And then in January he said “do you know I have never played a formation that can suit Mata but I would love to add him to the team”.

Do you think van gal signed Herrera and Shaw when the club had been scouting them for seasons and had actually agreed to sign them Becker van gal arrived???

I could go on but you don’t seem to accept that there are elements of the running of the club we don’t know about. There is enough evidence to suggest that managers give input and will publicly back any signings but that the club has its own agenda.

I can’t believe some people haven’t considered this ...

Do you honestly think the club would sign someone that Jose didn’t give the ok about? This is Jose Mourinho your talking about, he would be the first person to call the club out about it. He was at loggerheads with Roman about it at, constantly dripfeeding the media thru his mouthpieces..

adox

Drumpot wrote: »

Do you honestly think Jose says “I want Pogba” and the clubmakes it happen!

Do you honestly think Moyes said when he joined “do you know the one player I would love us to sign this summer is Fellaini”?

And then in January he said “do you know I have never played a formation that can suit Mata but I would love to add him to the team”.

Do you think van gal signed Herrera and Shaw when the club had been scouting them for seasons and had actually agreed to sign them Becker van gal arrived???

I could go on but you don’t seem to accept that there are elements of the running of the club we don’t know about. There is enough evidence to suggest that managers give input and will publicly back any signings but that the club has its own agenda.

I can’t believe some people haven’t considered this ...

You are implying in your previous posts that Utd are signing players that Jose doesn’t want and he has to make do with them.

I don’t believe that for one minute.

Even accounting for that it would make a stronger case to get rid of Jose then if that was the policy.

Mitch Connor

adox wrote: »

You are implying in your previous posts that Utd are signing players that Jose doesn’t want and he has to make do with them.

I don’t believe that for one minute.

Even accounting for that it would make a stronger case to rid of Jose then if that was the policy.

I think prior to Jose there can be such cases made for some signings. I don't think a single signing made under Jose has been a player Jose hasn't wanted. I think all the signings made in LVGs second season were his signings too.

bangkok

Just cannot see us mount a title challenge with jose as manager next season.

Can see it all end for him in tears during or at the end of next season as well.

DM_7

astradave wrote: »

Do you honestly think the club would sign someone that Jose didn’t give the ok about? This is Jose Mourinho your talking about, he would be the first person to call the club out about it. He was at loggerheads with Roman about it at, constantly dripfeeding the media thru his mouthpieces..

Yes, Jose would be approving signings. His okay is not always a specific request though. Matic and Zlatan were cases of I want him. Not sure Pogba or Miki were, I think they were more based on requests for a type of player rather than get me that guy.

A lot of United's dealings recently were reacting to players becoming available rather than good scouting, monitoring or identification of talent, bought for a specific idea.

Look at Di Maria as an example.

adox

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think prior to Jose there can be such cases made for some signings. I don't think a single signing made under Jose has been a player Jose hasn't wanted. I think all the signings made in LVGs second season were his signings too.

I agree and was talking about Jose and questioning Drumpot on it as he is using it as an excuse as to why the team isn’t functioning properly. They weren’t Jose signings. They weren’t his sort of players(which I don’t believe for one minute)

But, even entertaining that idea, well then the obvious conclusion is to get rid of the manager who can’t work with the team that has been provided for him and get someone in who can.

He is basically putting it forward as a reason to defend Jose’s position at the club whereas I see it as not opposite. (Not that I believe it)

GSPfan

Ah Drumpot you cannot put forward that sort of opinion in a reasonable conversation. That’s flat earth stuff.

Trigger

GSPfan wrote: »

Ah Drumpot you cannot put forward that sort of opinion in a reasonable conversation. That’s flat earth stuff.

Or as boards would say “can you see the underneath of an airplane from the moon?”

:pac:

Mitch Connor

adox wrote: »

I agree and was talking about Jose and questioning Drumpot on it as he is using it as an excuse as to why the team isn’t functioning properly. They weren’t Jose signings. They weren’t his sort of players(which I don’t believe for one minute)

But, even entertaining that idea, well then the obvious conclusion is to get rid of the manager who can’t work with the team that has been provided for him and get someone in who can.

He is basically putting it forward as a reason to defend Jose’s position at the club whereas I see it as not opposite. (Not that I believe it)

the other side of the argument is that if it isn't the manager signings, then they have been (up to last summer) Woodwards, and no way would I trust Woodward to build a squad.

The fella we brought in from Juve would be more in line with that structure I think though - but I think he was brought in as part of a general scouting overhaul.

My opinion remains that all signings under Jose have been players Jose wanted signed.

QikBax

Milinkovic Savic having a stormer for Lazio at the moment

Mitch Connor

DM_7 wrote: »

Yes, Jose would be approving signings. His okay is not always a specific request though. Matic and Zlatan were cases of I want him. Not sure Pogba or Miki were, I think they were more based on requests for a type of player rather than get me that guy.

A lot of United's dealings recently were reacting to players becoming available rather than good scouting, monitoring or identification of talent, bought for a specific idea.

Look at Di Maria as an example.

Di Maria is a bad example imo - he was specifically name cheked by LVG way before we signed him, as a player he would like at United.

nullzero

bangkok wrote: »

Just cannot see us mount a title challenge with jose as manager next season.

Can see it all end for him in tears during or at the end of next season as well.

If we're not in contention by the turn of the year I can see him going, and it would be difficult to argue with it.
He probably would have won us the league this year if it was for pesky man city and their billions, but he's been a results manager all his career. He certainly hasn't entertained many people, so he's in the last chance saloon now.

bangkok

nullzero wrote: »

If we're not in contention by the turn of the year I can see him going, and it would be difficult to argue with it.
He probably would have won us the league this year if it was for pesky man city and their billions, but he's been a results manager all his career. He certainly hasn't entertained many people, so he's in the last chance saloon now.

I couldnt handle another season like this one.

Our games are boring and we are **** to watch

pjohnson

Danny Rose would be a depressing solution. Prefer Young at LB.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/998263661872500736

"United want to sign two full-backs this summer. #mufc [Times]"

Drumpot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

1. Very few to be honest. Lingard's performances are an obvious one and the leadership/attitude of Lukaku another.
2. In terms of league positions it is this season, but in terms of actually competing for the title it isn't all that different from LVGs first season where we were in contention points wise for most of the season iirc, until an absolute capitulation in the last month or so. We've put no more pressure on the league winner this season than we have any other season.
3. Maybe football has evolved and become a more difficult beast to win in over the last few seaons, with City and others raising the bar. I do think his other teams played, for the most part, better football than we have seen from his United sides, but I see nothing in his approach to the matches that indicates the United players are playing a style alien to what Jose wants. If this is the style of football Jose wants, I don't see success in it. And I don't see why I should think this isn't the style he wants.
4. There are issues with the squad, I freely and vocally admit this - but he has had hundreds of millions to fix the squad, and we are still playing Young and Valencia at full back and Jones/Smalling CB. He hasn't signed full backs, and the centre backs he has signed he isn't playing, for whatever reason. That is at least in some part on Jose. Even taking into account the squad issues, they should only become a big issue in the biggest games - they should not be issues that stop us from getting points at Hundersfield, Brighton, Newcastle etc - they should not be issues stopping us from laying a finger on Seville. The level of performance is lower than the quality of the squad, and a manager (one of the best paid managers in the world) should be getting more than the sum of the parts, not less.
5. I've long been a critic of Woodward, even though I have been consistently told in here that I don't know what I am talking about and Woodward is one of the best around. I think Woodward was an issue for Moyes, a bit of an issue for LVG but less of an issue for Jose. I think Woodward has only signed players Mourinho has wanted signed. Maybe he missed out on some targets - Peresic - and maybe he hasn't been able to get the owners to stump up 100million more for fullbacks. There are still issues there, but you could also argue Mourinho is still in the job cause of Woodward not being strong enough or visionary enough. Again though, I feel Mourinho has been backed and supported well enough to consider Woodward and the owners should be able to expect better of him.
6. City's spending helps them massively, obviously. But I also feel Pep is simply a better manager than Jose, or proviing to be so far over the last two years. If you swapped Jose for Pep I think the points difference between United and City would be very different. I think Pep would have gotten a lot more out of Martial, Rashford, Lukaku, Sanchez and Pogba. Even if you consider just the spending, that should only become an issue when you play City. United outspend the rest. If we can't expect to beat City cause of their spending then logic says no one bar City can expect to beat us. And we've spent a fortune, its not just City's results that are far better than ours, their football is too.
7. We don't know that they are targetting the same players - but we both went for Sanchez, we got him. Talk they wanted Pogba but they never got a sniff agasint us. Otherside - Jorginho was/is apparently a target of both clubs and apparently the reason City are favourites to get him is not because of money, but because they play a astyle of football that he feels will suit him better. United have shown they will offer more than City, so money doesn't seem to be an issue when it comes to contracts.
8. I think Mata was signed because Woodward needed a win. I think Falcao was signed as a Woodward signing. Maybe Pogba was a club signing. For the rest I think the players the club have signed have been signed because the manager has asked for them. I don't believe woodward is routinely leading our transfer strategy - and we have had no previous talk of Jose being overruled by some transfer commitee. Maybe the fella we got in from Juve last summer is pointing at some change towards that, I don't know. My position would be any signings this summer are signings that Jose has asked for. Do you think it different?
9. I think there could be some arguement that Pogba was a marketing signing, but I personally don't buy it. We expect better from Pogba, but that is just it - United spent big on a player that was considered to be the next great midfielder in football. Its not worked out for us, but I think the club expected he would be our superstar leader on the pitch. I don't see how Matic, Lindelof, Bailly, Mkhitarya, Lukaku and others could be considered marketing signings. As previously said, I do think Mata was a woodward signing, fellaini too (i think Woodward badly let Moyes down) but since then, I think the club have very much pushed for sigings the manager has asked for (Maybe falcao being the most arguable)

As i have previously said, I was probably the most vocal in here in calling for Jose. But I just don't think it is working out. I don't think Jose has the passion, desire or intensity to turn things around. Comparing the football from February last year to now, I don't see evidence that Jose is working us towards a winiing style that is a tweak away from clicking. Same as I said towards the end of LVG, it was the same issues being apparent month after month. its not different now. We look back at all the poor performances and it is the same issues again and again. We are slow on the ball, slow in transition and static in the final third - nothing in Jose's approach indicates that the players are completely and utterly failing to implement his vision.

Maybe a summer of new signings will see a different United next season, but I honestly don't see where the evidence is to support an opinion that this time next year we will be talking about a United side that were up there with the best attacking sides in Europe, rather than just a more expensive side still looking to grind out wins by a single goal.

I have to say, I don't agree with your sentiments on some of those things, but I applaud your conviction to reply and respect your opinions now that I can at least see the logic behind them.

I am kind of the opposite to you in that I actually didn't want Jose from the start. I don't think I have seen an awful lot that I didn't expect and feel personally feel he took over a United squad in a much worse state then Pep did at City. I suppose I didn't expect a huge amount from this season and targeted progress which I feel was achieved. Not the progress I would of hoped for, but I think on balance things are looking up. I think Liverpool and Citys escapades have soured the perception of the league improvements.

I feel Uniteds manager strategy has been all over the place. Hence my serious reservations about the owners and/or Woodward. I don't see any clear pattern of strategy in who is being made coach in terms of squad cohesion. Moyes - Long term - LVG - rebuild youth - Jose - Instant trophies . . What exactly are the owners thinking ? What sort of football did they expect with Jose in charge ? I cant understand why anybody is surprised at the brand of football. The individual player performances from certain players and disappointing progress is understandable but this "United way of playing" thing is a mystery to me once you make Jose manager.

In terms of signings, I don't think Woodward is sitting down and going "do you know what lets sign Pogba", I think the club has its own strategies and tries to match it up with whatever manager they have at the time. I don't think its a case of a manager saying "I want Pogba" but more a manager saying "we need to get players to strengthen here" and the club includes its own marketing priorities of players when its choosing targets. I don't think its simply Jose going "I want Pogba", but you have to ask if any manager is told the club is signing Pogba they are hardly going to say no!

In terms of spending, I suppose I feel that years of chronic underspending has finally caught up with the squad. SAF didn't complain because the funds weren't there as the club was servicing massive debt and he couldn't change it. What he did was absolutely remarkable under the circumstances. As to why SAF wouldn't publically come out against the owners, why would he ? He wanted to get the club back to the top and was obviously on board with their takeover cause they would not of purchased the club if he wasn't on their side. I have no doubt the glazers would not of bought the club without SAF support.

In terms of why would I support Jose now its because I suppose I believe a successful manager like Jose deserves more trust when I feel there is a massive question mark over the way the club is being run. I cant prove anything but nobody can fully explain why the club is doing so poor other then blaming manager after manager and I don't think its that simple. Afterall the owners aren't passive actors in the club. They are the ones choosing the managers and they are the ones involved in whatever the clubs transfer strategy is about.

In terms of Pep at United I don't disagree with you but that's why I feel the club has an unbalanced amount of forwards for the kind of style that Jose usually plays. I don't trust the people running the club and other then standing out of Gill and SAF way (who were there before they bought the club) I cant see any evidence that suggests they are good at running the club on the field.

If you asked me to summarise Jose's brand of football and strengths at all his clubs it would be effective, compact, disciplined, requiring strong characters in the middle of the spine and complimented with efficient counter attacking. Matic, Bailly and Lukaku sort of match those characteristic in my view. That is why I consider they "Jose players". When I look at the squad he took over I think it was clear he was going to have to make some massive changes and it required him to find the sort of characters he likes in his team. The likes of a Pogba or Sanchez are perfect last one or two pieces for a finely tuned team, but not necessarily for a team that's got so many deficiencies in so many areas.

This is why I think he needs to be afforded more time and patience, longer them normal. He inherited a squad that wasn't as strong as some people like to think and it wasn't filled with the kind of disciplined characters he works well with. I think the one thing I give credit to Woodward and the owners is that they are going to support him and give him time. That's why he looks so comfortable even in disappointment when he was always looking over his shoulder at Chelsea or Madrid. I also think its why he will have a go at the players , cause unlike Chelsea he will be supported over players while he steadies the ship. Again, this is one of the bits of credit I think I will give Woodward.

So how does this fit in with my "the club is involved with transfer picks"? Its a quid pro quo relationship. Jose is left to manage what he has and the club wont hold an axe over his head while they get into champions league and the club looks like its making progress. This makes total sense, so why would he come out and insult the people giving him the kind of time that he was seldom afforded at Madrid or Chelsea ?

This isn't suggesting the club do not want to win trophies. Jose was brought in for this very reason, but I think there are signs hes getting the squad into the shape he wants. For all the disappointing performances the team finished 2nd, its easy to see how if he gets the team functioning correctly that it points to bigger and better things. .

I would also like to say that I wouldn't mind a Klopp or a Poch at the club, I just wouldn't be confident that fans would be happy giving them the time they might need to get to the level of expectations that many United fans have. .

Trigger

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/998263661872500736

"United want to sign two full-backs this summer. #mufc [Times]"

No shït Sherlock :pac:

GSPfan

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/998263661872500736

"United want to sign two full-backs this summer. #mufc [Times]"

Knowing us it’ll be 2 left backs. Can’t have enough people on that left side.

Mitch Connor

GSPfan wrote: »

Knowing us it’ll be 2 left backs. Can’t have enough people on that left side.

2 right footed left backs.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/998263661872500736

"United want to sign two full-backs this summer. #mufc [Times]"

In dire need of two attacking full-backs. We offer very little threat from out wide and this would obviously help create space in centre mid too if opponents had to defend both wings regularly.

Marcelo, Alves, Alba, Walker etc These players offer serious options to a team if you're not playing out-and-out wingers which many teams don't these days.

Valencia and Young are as honest as you'll get but neither are good enuf FBs.

Cantona's Collars

Mitch Connor wrote: »

2 right footed left backs.

Gotta love the check back before crossing. First time crosses are overrated.

Cantona's Collars

Uh oh,the leaks are back.

https://twitter.com/RealKevinPalmer/status/998293431687565312

jimmytwotimes 2013

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Uh oh,the leaks are back.

https://twitter.com/RealKevinPalmer/status/998293431687565312

Rooney was the leak I thought!!

They can f_ckin suck it up now at this stage before we turn in to Chelsea where the squad get the manager sacked every couple of yrs.

Trigger

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Rooney was the leak I thought!!

Wasn’t it not rumoured to be Smalling at one stage.. The players need to take a long hard look at themselves if they start doing this Shoite again.. the going gets tough and they run to the media.

Cantona's Collars

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Rooney was the leak I thought!!

They can f_ckin suck it up now at this stage before we turn in to Chelsea where the squad get the manager sacked every couple of yrs.

One of them, Smalling was rumoured to be part of it.

It'd match them better to put in some performances on the pitch than whining to the press.

Edit,Astradave pretty much said what I was thinking.

PhlegmyMoses

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Uh oh,the leaks are back.

https://twitter.com/RealKevinPalmer/status/998293431687565312

I sincerely doubt that Kevin Palmer knows what he is talking about. He is tweeting Eamonn Holmes on the topic ffs.

Wouldn't surprise me if players are leaking ****, players seem to be absolute weapons for that these days (look at Willian yesterday) but I'd be surprised if Palmer has heard anything from any credible source.

How Soon Is Now

I'd love to see us go for Savic have only seen bits of him but he gets massive praise from fans of Italian football.

Wouldn't say no to Talisca looks an exciting player there have been questions of his mentality by fans though I've seen mentioned online.

Sandro would also be great signing if he can find his form again at new club. Two or three midfielders leaving maybe some defenders to there's no reason these players won't be replaced.