Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

unplayable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKLKnOaYmWU

10 years ago tonight as mentioned earlier. what a night!

yourdeadwright

pjohnson wrote: »

bangkok wrote: »

too be honest it looks like he just went to sky website, seen the formation and went with it.

and yes you are correct, they have recently used lemar in there as well

Actually watched them and just went there for reference. Should have known better to try using facts against you.

But its a never just 2 , it simply isn't true , France will always play a 3rd man in the middle,
You'll see in the world cup  ,  they always have Kante at the base and Pogb plus another infront of him ,
No matter what line up SKY or Bt or whoever put up on tv just you watch the game and u'll see they will never leave two in the middle,

bangkok

yourdeadwright wrote: »

But its a never just 2 , it simply isn't true , France will always play a 3rd man in the middle,
You'll see in the world cup  ,  they always have Kante at the base and Pogb plus another infront of him ,
No matter what line up SKY or Bt or whoever put up on tv just you watch the game and u'll see they will never leave two in the middle,

he does watch the game, just went to sky for reference

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

and in 8 of the games you went to reference, its down as 4-4-2

ok

The point of the post was to show you the structure of the center of midfield. Naturally you missed that. You also missed the part of that post where I say while sky called it a 4-4-2 it was actually a 4-2-3-1 in reality, unless you are going to start saying Greizmann and Payer played CF beside Giroud. Even if you want to class Lemar as a CM he certainly wasn't playing that far back. He was a CM about as much as Mata is when he drifts infield. Pogba was still mostly tasked with box-to-box role in a 2 while Kante does the work of 4 men as per usual.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/thomas-lemar/nationalmannschaft/spieler/205562/verein_id/3377

Thats a lot of LW starts for a third central midfielder.....just because a player drifts doesn't mean they arent supposed to be in a set position. Jesus just Saturday we saw our LW wander CF, RW go #10 and CF go RW during a match.

brinty

TheDoc wrote: »

Like I said, people don't even understand the compliment they are paying Poch that they use not winning trophies.....for Spurs....as a stick to beat him with.

i was joking hence the several :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

he does watch the game, just went to sky for reference

I know winky. Should never use facts when tryna discuss with you. Sure Mata was 3rd CM at the start of the year. Why were you whinging about Pogba needing a 3 so much when he had one?

Mitch Connor

Sandro seems to be a potential link for left back, assuming we sign one.
We've heard Alderwield for centre back.
Savic and Fred as CM targets.

Have we been strongly linked to any right backs? some light links to the fella at Southampon, I think we were linked to a promising fella at Socieaded a little after January.

Munier was previously linked too I think.

I know someone mentioned Coleman in here the other day.

But are there any links that feel genuine? Curious - it is one position I can see Jose making do with.

yourdeadwright

pjohnson wrote: »

bangkok wrote: »

and in 8 of the games you went to reference, its down as 4-4-2

ok

The point of the post was to show you the structure of the center of midfield. Naturally you missed that. You also missed the part of that post where I say while sky called it a 4-4-2 it was actually a 4-2-3-1 in reality, unless you are going to start saying Greizmann and Payer played CF beside Giroud. Even if you want to class Lemar as a CM he certainly wasn't playing that far back. He was a CM about as much as Mata is when he drifts infield. Pogba was still mostly tasked with box-to-box role in a 2 while Kante does the work of 4 men as per usual.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/thomas-lemar/nationalmannschaft/spieler/205562/verein_id/3377

Thats a lot of LW starts for a third central midfielder.....just because a player drifts doesn't mean they arent supposed to be in a set position. Jesus just Saturday we saw our LW wander CF, RW go #10 and CF go RW during a match.

I odnt think you understand it , Kante is the furest back , Right pogba to one side and anothetr to the other side,
Just cause Pogba goes box to box doesn't make him part of a two, he has Kante as his insurance ,They line up like the below , X being the back four
x          x         x           x
               Kante
      Pogba         Lemar

bangkok

pjohnson wrote: »

I know winky. Should never use facts when tryna discuss with you. Sure Mata was 3rd CM at the start of the year. Why were you whinging about Pogba needing a 3 so much when he had one?

yea back when we were trashing teams 3 and 4 nil

brinty

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Sandro seems to be a potential link for left back, assuming we sign one.
We've heard Alderwield for centre back.
Savic and Fred as CM targets.

Have we been strongly linked to any right backs? some light links to the fella at Southampon, I think we were linked to a promising fella at Socieaded a little after January.

Munier was previously linked too I think.

I know someone mentioned Coleman in here the other day.

But are there any links that feel genuine? Curious - it is one position I can see Jose making do with.

There was mention of another Croat at right back Šime Vrsaljko, i think is the fella...

Think this might be the Socieadad fella you were thinking off https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/alvaro-odriozola/profil/spieler/280730

brinty

Also some rumours about Hector Bellerin and Djidbril Sidibe from Monaco....

any mention of Fabinho from Monaco.. wasn't he a huge target last summer...

pjohnson

brinty wrote: »

There was mention of another Croat at right back Šime Vrsaljko, i think is the fella...

Think this might be the Socieadad fella you were thinking off https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/alvaro-odriozola/profil/spieler/280730

Has he not a pre contract with Madrid?

Mitch Connor

brinty wrote: »

There was mention of another Croat at right back Šime Vrsaljko, i think is the fella...

Think this might be the Socieadad fella you were thinking off https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/alvaro-odriozola/profil/spieler/280730

Yep, thats the guy.

Obviously the club have proven capable of signing players out of the blue, but nothing linked at right back seems concrete. all seems just names being thrown in the media. I don't doubt these players are on a scouting list at United, but actually moving for them? I dunno.

TheDoc

brinty wrote: »

i was joking hence the several :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

This is serious business!

TheDoc

Oh meant to say I was watching that guy from LAzio we are strongly linked with. Get why when I read about him Pogba comes following swiftly along for a term of reference. Some unit but looks technically good.

Only watched 30 mins in the first half gainst Inter last night but he was the best player on the park. Is that his norm?

Did form an imagine in my head watching it that if thats what hes like normally, and Pogba gets his form and consistency back, thats a filthy midfield with Matic anchoring.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yep, thats the guy.

Obviously the club have proven capable of signing players out of the blue, but nothing linked at right back seems concrete. all seems just names being thrown in the media. I don't doubt these players are on a scouting list at United, but actually moving for them? I dunno.

It's going to be a pretty tough summer all things considered. I hope the manager gets what he wants, as if he doesn't thats setting up the excuses and not getting his targets has been a cataclyst for implosion in his previous.

I'll probably be understanding to an extent if it isn't some mad overhaul that takes place, so think maybe three new signings might be a good shout in terms of expectations?

LB,CB and CM and I'll probably be happy depending on the players. Plenty in the squad to work with.

AlderW, a new CM of first XI quality and Gareth Bale and I'll probably lose my **** and leave off my **** throwing at Ashley Young until January

Lord TSC

I'll cry if we go into the new season With Valencia as a first team player....

Trigger

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yep, thats the guy.

Obviously the club have proven capable of signing players out of the blue, but nothing linked at right back seems concrete. all seems just names being thrown in the media. I don't doubt these players are on a scouting list at United, but actually moving for them? I dunno.

We have been linked to Sidibé a lot the last few months and think he has came out and said he is leaving..

Trigger

List of players we have been linked to the last 2 months

Alderweirald
Savic
Alex Sandro
Fred
Bonucci
Willian
Tierney
Neymar
Bale
Kluivert
Umtitti
Sessegnon
Fekir
Perisic(again)
Ghoulam
Joao Cancelo
Bondswell(U16)
Rose
Kroos
Seri
Vrsaljko
Joao Mario
Sidibé
Bellerin
Koulibaly
Talisca

bucketybuck

I really hope he has a good tournament, because if he has a bad one, or deemed bad, its just snowballing and snowballing.

And when he doesn't, it will be Mourinho's fault for making him have a poor season beforehand.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Don’t get the Gareth Bale love In at all!

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

I'll cry if we go into the new season With Valencia as a first team player....

Does it make sense to say he's been a great player for United without being a great player?

Think he's a great professional and he's rock solid and reliable and he turned out to be a pretty good right back, just entirely lacking the final product that I guess unfortunately is now an expectation in football for teams that create that width for a FB to exploit, typically big/good teams.

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

It's going to be a pretty tough summer all things considered. I hope the manager gets what he wants, as if he doesn't thats setting up the excuses and not getting his targets has been a cataclyst for implosion in his previous.

I'll probably be understanding to an extent if it isn't some mad overhaul that takes place, so think maybe three new signings might be a good shout in terms of expectations?

LB,CB and CM and I'll probably be happy depending on the players. Plenty in the squad to work with.

AlderW, a new CM of first XI quality and Gareth Bale and I'll probably lose my **** and leave off my **** throwing at Ashley Young until January

Three signings won't be enough. Four is minimum and five is what should be getting aimed at.

At the very least we need a left back, a centre back and two central midfielders. One to replace Carrick and one to replace Fellaini. If Fellaini stays then money goes on a right back. If Martial leaves we probably should be going for a RIGHT SIDED attacker too.

Ideally we need, imo, LB, CB, RB, CM, CM at least, while keeping all our current midfielders/attackers.

Mitch Connor

MrMac84 wrote: »

Don’t get the Gareth Bale love In at all!

You don't get it... i'm not even seeing it!

brinty

right folks if the following was our summer dealings how happy would you all be....

RB - Šime Vrsaljko or Álvaro Odriozola
CB - Toby Alderweirald or Samuel Umtiti
LB - Alex Sandro and one of Ryan Sessegnon or Kieran Tierney
CM - Sergej Milinkovic-Savic or Fabinho
RW - Christian Pulisic or Christian Eriksen

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

And when he doesn't, it will be Mourinho's fault for making him have a poor season beforehand.

Look I know I portray this argument more often than not, but if he goes over to Russia and puts in an incredible performance, tears the place apart.

Are you saying people won't be like "huh, why doesn't he do that for us" and when you look at outside of issues you might have with his application, you maybe look at the manager?

Look I'll hold my hand up at this point and say I thought it was entirely the managers fault boxing him into that 4-2-3-1 and now he has had plenty of 4-3-3 setups and hasn't delivered and I'm more moving towards there is also issues with the player to be addressed.

But I still hold complete faith Pogba is a world class midfielder that we signed, he hasn't been as terrible as people make out, but he hasn't delivered to my expectations. And I don't think they are wrong or incorrect. I know what Pogba was and is, and he isn't delivering to that level.

I hear plenty of pundits and the likes describe what he should be doing and it's pure lazy critique borderline that weird racism where they are just shy of going "he's a big black lad" and they obviously never watched him before he came back to United. But he probably next year just needs to delivering, in spite of the manager or setup, or with him.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Three signings won't be enough. Four is minimum and five is what should be getting aimed at.

At the very least we need a left back, a centre back and two central midfielders. One to replace Carrick and one to replace Fellaini. If Fellaini stays then money goes on a right back. If Martial leaves we probably should be going for a RIGHT SIDED attacker too.

Ideally we need, imo, LB, CB, RB, CM, CM at least, while keeping all our current midfielders/attackers.

Yeha I know three isn't enough, just thinking do we need to temper expectations with a world cup year, shorter transfer window and an extremely competitive market that seems to get more and more competitive.

Could well be spending £150m on three players, thats where the market is at.

Although who knows, if the manager and Woodward have been in good comms maybe Woodward has been working away on things for ages, but sometimes I feel even when your working so far in advance your only organising stuff with the players.

The issue now is contending with ridiculous owners who think every player of theirs is the best and worth £80m +

**** at the rate of tapping up these days I'd imagine we have all the finances already boxed of with prospective signings, even ones that won't join.

TheDoc

brinty wrote: »

right folks if the following was our summer dealings how happy would you all be....

RB - Šime Vrsaljko or Álvaro Odriozola
CB - Toby Alderweirald or Samuel Umtiti
LB - Alex Sandro and one of Ryan Sessegnon or Kieran Tierney
CM - Sergej Milinkovic-Savic or Fabinho
RW - Christian Pulisic or Christian Eriksen

From the players I know, or people I trust or rate and I've heard talk about them, that sounds like an unbelievable summer?

I don't know anything about the RB's mind you.

I also don't think Pulisic would work out at this point of time with our current manager and the move is a bit too soon for him.

jayo26

Malcolm wouldn't be a bad shout at right wing he has had another good season in France scoring 10 goals and 7 assists from the right wing.

If we were signing Willian I'd love someone like Malcolm to come in too and develope with less pressure and it would make it easier to accept maybe martial moving on then too.

Drumpot

TheDoc wrote: »

Look I know I portray this argument more often than not, but if he goes over to Russia and puts in an incredible performance, tears the place apart.

Are you saying people won't be like "huh, why doesn't he do that for us" and when you look at outside of issues you might have with his application, you maybe look at the manager?

Look I'll hold my hand up at this point and say I thought it was entirely the managers fault boxing him into that 4-2-3-1 and now he has had plenty of 4-3-3 setups and hasn't delivered and I'm more moving towards there is also issues with the player to be addressed.

But I still hold complete faith Pogba is a world class midfielder that we signed, he hasn't been as terrible as people make out, but he hasn't delivered to my expectations. And I don't think they are wrong or incorrect. I know what Pogba was and is, and he isn't delivering to that level.

I hear plenty of pundits and the likes describe what he should be doing and it's pure lazy critique borderline that weird racism where they are just shy of going "he's a big black lad" and they obviously never watched him before he came back to United. But he probably next year just needs to delivering, in spite of the manager or setup, or with him.

The problem is that its hard to know what exactly is holding a player back and its extremely easy to simply it by blaming a manager.

In some cases managers and players have a relationship that compliments each others qualities. In other cases the players strengths don't really compliment what the manager wants or feels is best for the team and I feel there is a bit of that going on this season. Uniteds central midfield issues have forced Jose to either use McToinay or Pogba in a deep role beside Matic. Pogba clearly doesn't enjoy it but his application to this role is questionable as his temperament at putting a shift for the team.

Trigger

jayo26 wrote: »

Malcolm wouldn't be a bad shout at right wing he has had another good season in France scoring 10 goals and 7 assists from the right wing.

If we were signing Willian I'd love someone like Malcolm to come in too and develope with less pressure and it would make it easier to accept maybe martial moving on then too.

If we sign Willian I reckon Chong will develop and would be at the right age when Willian moves on. I don’t think there is any point in signing a really young RW at this stage, by all accounts the Club expect Chong to move up quickly

rob316

The think I'm most baffled about at United is the recruitment.

Money is just been thrown at big names in a sort of watered down galactico policy. United always spent money and broke transfer records but for players with high ceilings and to be developed. Everyone and their dog knew Pogba was a dreadful price for a player with zero character to succeed during a rebuilding phase at the club.

As much as I dislike Mourinho and his bland football, he's a serial trophy winner and of big ones, he takes no pride in the league cup and EL.

Manager is only as good as there players and if the structure isn't in place to recruit right, he can't succeed. Ferguson possibly wouldn't have been as successful without Gill.

secman

astradave wrote: »

If we sign Willian I reckon Chong will develop and would be at the right age when Willian moves on. I don’t think there is any point in signing a really young RW at this stage, by all accounts the Club expect Chong to move up quickly

Ching looks a super prospect but I fear what might happen to him under the current regime, it just seems that way at the minute .... bar DDG none are playing to their potential and capabilities..... depressing really.

PhlegmyMoses

MrMac84 wrote: »

Don’t get the Gareth Bale love In at all!

You have to temper it with the term "if he stays fit", but if Bale stays fit he is the best player we could relaistically buy in the world right now. Instant impact, and I would have no concerns about him fitting the system or whatever, he would hit the ground running such is his quality.

All that being said, he is a sick note. You'd be hoping he does a Van Persie and have a couple of injury free years. Every other player I see suggested is risky in that they are still establishing themselves in the footballing world and I feel like we have had an awful record over the last few years.

Trigger

secman wrote: »

Ching looks a super prospect but I fear what might happen to him under the current regime, it just seems that way at the minute .... bar DDG none are playing to their potential and capabilities..... depressing really.

Don’t think he will be ready for another 2/3 years so he might not even see this regime

I’d argue that Lingard, matic, young and Lukaku and probably some more are all thriving under Jose

secman

astradave wrote: »

Don’t think he will be ready for another 2/3 years so he might not even see this regime

I’d argue that Lingard, matic, young and Lukaku and probably some more are all thriving under Jose

Thriving would be generous in fairness Dave... best of a bad lot , Jessie has had some very good performances bit consistency isn't there yet. Lukaku plays his heart out and maybe will be a leader for us. Matic started the season brilliant.. but Pogba didn't help his cause ... Young is a battler but acceptable as our no 1 left full ?

I take your point that at various times in the season they had good spells...

Anyways...... irish cricket anyone

jayo26

secman wrote: »

Anyways...... irish cricket anyone

Haven't played rounders in years..

bangkok

rob316 wrote: »

The think I'm most baffled about at United is the recruitment.

Money is just been thrown at big names in a sort of watered down galactico policy. United always spent money and broke transfer records but for players with high ceilings and to be developed. Everyone and their dog knew Pogba was a dreadful price for a player with zero character to succeed during a rebuilding phase at the club.

As much as I dislike Mourinho and his bland football, he's a serial trophy winner and of big ones, he takes no pride in the league cup and EL.

Manager is only as good as there players and if the structure isn't in place to recruit right, he can't succeed. Ferguson possibly wouldn't have been as successful without Gill.

so you blame woodward??!

also what you said about pogba isnt true. if he was signed a season later he would have cost potentially another 50m more

Mitch Connor

rob316 wrote: »

The think I'm most baffled about at United is the recruitment.

Money is just been thrown at big names in a sort of watered down galactico policy. United always spent money and broke transfer records but for players with high ceilings and to be developed. Everyone and their dog knew Pogba was a dreadful price for a player with zero character to succeed during a rebuilding phase at the club.

Don't agree at all.

Bailly, lindelof,Matic, Lukaku, mkhitaryan and inbrahimovic were all sensible signings in positions we needed.

Pogba there is an argument but we were crying out for a top class game changing cm, which is what we expect 9f Pogba.

Since Jose came in, Sanchez is the only signing I'd truly argue was signed just cause of his name.

Drumpot

rob316 wrote: »

The think I'm most baffled about at United is the recruitment.

Money is just been thrown at big names in a sort of watered down galactico policy. United always spent money and broke transfer records but for players with high ceilings and to be developed. Everyone and their dog knew Pogba was a dreadful price for a player with zero character to succeed during a rebuilding phase at the club.

As much as I dislike Mourinho and his bland football, he's a serial trophy winner and of big ones, he takes no pride in the league cup and EL. .

This is a very good point. It was actually something a mate of mine said to me recently. That since Fergie left united seem to mainly go for the obvious targets , certainly seems like it more then they used to. The majority of the money spent since SAF left has been on obviously talented players but for different reasons they didn’t work out.

Cotts72

What do people make of these Anderson Talisca rumours? are we entering Gaitan 2.0? if Martial is to leave id definitely see room for another forward to come in to operate across the front 3 along with a new RW. If Lukaku were to get injured that leaves us with just Rashford as a striker or Sanchez as a makeshift

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

This is the problem with Mourinho. It's actually not as obvious as you make out.

He enables and coaches good football, or he was able to inherit/buy players to do it for him?

Belittle it all you want, its a valid point of discussion, when the history available of information from Real, Chelsea and Inter all outline the guy never coached attacking play or players.

The issue isn't even "Jose playing defensive football" as you'd like to make out. Those of us complaining about the style or the issues, are pointing to the fact our attack is an absolute mess. There is no construct, cohesion or anything. It's six players dumped into the mix hoping to figure it out themselves.

And he was extremely defensive at times, that is literally not open to debate. Shock horror he makes a tweak to how he addresses the big games, when his record had turned into a joke, and he improved it massively in six months.

He can do it if he wants to, he isn't a stupid man or a bad coach. He just isn't feeling any pressure or obligation to address his clear issues or the problems. And it's the problem with having a manager just twist his own narrative. Making out now that "proper" football people or "proper" fans are happy and know the progress. Total bollox.

I'd say he keeps up in this vain the home fans will let him know exactly what they think of it all next season.

Again duff on rte said jose was maticulous in his coaching and planning in attack and defence so id take that over your claims he doesnt, without you ever backing it up

Will I Am Not

Have we all gotten over Saturday evening yet? Is it safe to come back in?

Andrew Beef

Seamus Coleman would be an excellent signing.

Coleman
Alderweireld
Eriksen
Willian

They’d be the ones who I’d take. And I’d play Luke Shaw as first choice; the man was the best in England right when he was injured in that European game.

Andrew Beef

Seamus Coleman would be an excellent signing.

Coleman
Alderweireld
Eriksen
Willian

They’d be the ones who I’d take. And I’d play Luke Shaw as first choice; the man was the best in England right when he was injured in that European game.

Lord TSC

Reports that Griezmann has turned down Barca now.

How Soon Is Now

Lord TSC wrote: »

Reports that Griezmann has turned down Barca now.

If thats true and they dont get him i dont even care where he goes just to laugh at them always so sure of themselves!!

Many seem to be in agreement that next season could be 'make or break' for Jose at the club. With that in mind, the first-team signings he makes this Summer will need to hit the ground running upon their arrival at United. More like Lukaku, Ibra, Matic. Less like Mkhi, Lindelof or even Pogba.

If some are talking about a first team 'overhaul' in the Summer, like 4/5+ players, then you need to be realistic about the adaption period. New players, especially from foreign leagues, many of them could need time to adapt to the team, style and league. Next season is looking like 'make or break' for Jose? Last thing he or the team needs is a whole host of new first team players taking 4/5 months to a full season to adapt. Again, we need the likes of a Lukaku, not a Mkhitaryan.

This coming window, I'd prefer that Jose signs players who he "loves" and "trusts" or are PL proven, rather than players who need to be developed and/or win his full graces. Or young players who will only be useful to the club in the medium to long term future.

Take Willian for example. Of course if United sign Willian, after Sanchez, I would worry that it would further push our developing young attackers towards the exit door. Also, like Sanchez and Matic, Willian is around the 30 mark and therefore only useful to the club in the shorter term.

However, I can't have my cake and eat it too. Above all, I want this manager to win a PL or CL with United soon. Signing a PL proven, in-form player in a position our team requires is the best way to achieve this. The player having a previous, good working relationship with the manager is also a help.

Jose seems to do well with players he "trusts", "loves" or are PL proven - Ibra, Matic, Lukaku for example. I think we need signings of that caliber made this Summer, so therefore Willian and Alderweireld would suit quite well.

They are two to start with anyway imo.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

Reports that Griezmann has turned down Barca now.

where you see that?

bangkok

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/11380741/paul-pogba-non-committal-on-manchester-united-future-and-talks-jose-mourinho-relationship