Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

So I don’t know if ye recall but I had previously had cochlear implant surgery in March, and I am currently rehabbing it. It has come on so well that I have started listening to an audiobook at the moment to try push myself further along, definitely working as I can hear the book . So with this in mind I’m wondering if ye have any good football related podcasts to listen to, preferably with clear speakers. And where would I source good ones? Take in mind I’ve never even tried searching for one :pac: thanks

Congratulations pal delighted to hear that (pun intended) they are going well for you brilliant.

Lithium93_

Remember when "according to Sky Sources" actually meant something?

Trigger

Lord TSC wrote: »

Curious to know if "Sky Sources" are just repeating the MEN sources.

Know very little bout Fred other than City were sniffing round him too.

Luckhurst this morning saying we are looking to bring in a young midfielder to go with Fred, who should be the first signing, and has named Lorenzo Pellegrini from Roma, and that we are monitoring Savic and Jorginho.

Usual links to Alderweirald again elsewhere

Article by Ducker here https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/05/24/man-utd-look-take-advantage-spurs-stance-transfers-early-toby/

Edit: DiMarzio tweets deal done for Fred

https://twitter.com/DiMarzio/status/999604564750938112?s=20

per google translate wrote:

Second place in the Premier and FA Cup in the final match against Chelsea, not exciting results this season that push Manchester United overbearing on the market. First goal centered, the red devils in fact have reached the agreement for Fred, Shakhtar Donetsk midfielder, blown to the cousins ​​of the City with a check for 50 million euros.

The Brazilian will form the midfield trio of Mourinho along with Matic and Pogba, considered in turn to be incedible by the former Inter manager. The Milinkovic-Savic idea is exciting, but at the moment it is not the intention of United to spend one hundred million euros for a possible reserve.

On the exits side, Darmian is always closer to Juventus, a club from which Manchester would gladly take Mario Mandzukic, a profile that Mourinho likes looking for an attacker who possesses the characteristics of Croatian. An alternative for that role remains the former Inter Arnautovic striker, currently in power at West Ham.

Will I Am Not

Lord TSC wrote: »

We're also being linked a bit to Sokratis in Germany today.

I think we should steer clear of Dortmund in the transfer window...

S.M.B.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Depay, or Zaha who had been mentioned previously, or Keane from a year ago, or anybody who couldn't handle it and had already been moved on. There may be an exception in the future but as a general rule a club has little to gain by continually looking at players and thinking, "maybe we should give them an other chance?". **** that, they should be going for the best of the best, raise those standards and start getting ruthless.

Ben Foster left United and went on to play for England, can you imagine Fergie bringing him back in hope of him fulfilling that potential? Do you think Fergie ever considered a bid for Diego Forlan after he won the golden boot? I doubt it.

I'd also note that plenty of players have had a good run of games and goals for smaller clubs. Depay has done well in the last ten games since moving to a central role? Good for him. Still not good enough for us though.

I actually can't imagine Fergie considering to bring back a player but I feel it could be more out of stubbornness rather than what's best for the team.

What if the best person to fill a position in the team is an ex-player? We should not consider bringing him back because Fergie never did it?

Unless we feel that bringing back Pogba has set some precedent where players are happy to leave United knowing that they may have a second bite at the cherry later in their career.

J. Marston

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Remember when "according to Sky Sources" actually meant something?

Sky Sources died with Nasri to United.

Lord TSC

Edit: Astra said it all actually, I need to read more.

bangkok

J. Marston wrote: »

Sky Sources died with Nasri to United.

Why? Transfers are not black and white

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/cmwinterburn/status/999605745934045184

Translation of Di Marzio tweet.

Last RT from @DiMarzio suggests Manchester United have agreed a deal with Shakhtar for Fred at £44 million and the club also retain an interest in one of Mario Mandzukic and Marko Arnautovic

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/999608045553569794

United believe €100 million is too much for Savic.

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/999609436628013056

"Jose believes Pogba is unsellable."

Lord TSC

I was only saying earlier about Rashford not inspiring as our option if Lukaku gets hurt. I presume Mandzukic would be super cheap, and happy to be a bench player.

S.M.B.

Lord TSC wrote: »

I was only saying earlier about Rashford not inspiring as our option if Lukaku gets hurt. I presume Mandzukic would be super cheap, and happy to be a bench player.

He'd be great if Juve decide not to shaft us with the PL tax.

Cantona's Collars

Lord TSC wrote: »

I was only saying earlier about Rashford not inspiring as our option if Lukaku gets hurt. I presume Mandzukic would be super cheap, and happy to be a bench player.

I thought he was older than 32.

As much as I rate Rashford, he's still very raw and the last few games showed that. An experienced backup to Lukaku is needed plus Mandzukic knows how to put the ball in the net.

Bret Hart

Talk of Alex Sandro renewing his contract with Juve. Will have to look elsewhere for a lb.

Lord TSC

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

I thought he was older than 32.

As much as I rate Rashford, he's still very raw and the last few games showed that. An experienced backup to Lukaku is needed plus Mandzukic knows how to put the ball in the net.

It also hit me that he'd be a great Fellaini replacement too, in terms of a "we need a goal, the other team are defending deep, get a sub on and its time to start whipping crosses in" buy.

Trigger

Straight swap for Darmian perhaps

Lord TSC

astradave wrote: »

Straight swap for Darmian perhaps

Darmian few was supposed to be round €15m

I'd say Mandzukic should be round 5-7m

So maybe cash involved coming our way too. Also, Sandro could be involved there too in the situation

pjohnson

Mandzukic would be great. We need another lone striker to back up Lukaku badly.

S.M.B.

Why would Mandzukic be 5-7m? Don't want to open up the transfermarkt.com debate up again but they have him valued at e20m?

Lord TSC

S.M.B. wrote: »

Why would Mandzukic be 5-7m? Don't want to open up the transfermarkt.com debate up again but they have him valued at e20m?

Really? I'll admit, I was just kind of winging a valuation.

Considering he's 32, I thought he'd be a lot cheaper than 20m tbh. Hands up if people feel I'm way undervaluing him there.

bangkok

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

https://twitter.com/cmwinterburn/status/999605745934045184

Translation of Di Marzio tweet.

Last RT from @DiMarzio suggests Manchester United have agreed a deal with Shakhtar for Fred at £44 million and the club also retain an interest in one of Mario Mandzukic and Marko Arnautovic

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/999608045553569794

United believe €100 million is too much for Savic.

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/999609436628013056

"Jose believes Pogba is unsellable."

Arnautovic would be a super signing

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Arnautovic would be a super signing

He can play as a link man like Lukaku or on the right too.. the only thing I’d say is that he can be pretty inconsistent

Also Mandzukic has been playing from the left for Juve no?

hurlingman97

Mourinho managed Arnautovic at inter too didn't he?
He only made 3 appearances that season though.

yabadabado

Lord TSC wrote: »

Agreed overall.

I do feel though that we're heavily reliant on Rashford to be Lukaku's back up and if anything happened that put Lukaku on the shelf for a while....would that fill you with confidence?

Not saying a back up striker is a priority mind, at least this summer. Nor do I think Memphis in particular would run back to reclaim his bench spot. But it worries me how limp we looked without Lukaku in the last few games this season.

Marital and Alexis are options if we went 2 up top or Lukaku wasn't available.
I'd actually rather see either of them than Rashford tbh.

S.M.B.

Lord TSC wrote: »

Really? I'll admit, I was just kind of winging a valuation.

Considering he's 32, I thought he'd be a lot cheaper than 20m tbh. Hands up if people feel I'm way undervaluing him there.

Maybe you are right but regardless of age I can't imagine any established first choice centre forward starting at this years WC moving from Serie A to the PL for anywhere near £4m.

threein99

J. Marston wrote: »

Sky Sources died with Nasri to United.

Or what about Ed Woodward was on his way home from Sydney to conduct serious transfer business ?

Liam McPoyle

astradave wrote: »

So I don’t know if ye recall but I had previously had cochlear implant surgery in March, and I am currently rehabbing it. It has come on so well that I have started listening to an audiobook at the moment to try push myself further along, definitely working as I can hear the book . So with this in mind I’m wondering if ye have any good football related podcasts to listen to, preferably with clear speakers. And where would I source good ones? Take in mind I’ve never even tried searching for one :pac: thanks

Gotta ask, have you been deaf since birth?

If so, as a United fan, you have some quality commentary to catch up on.

First port of call when your ready should be the ITV commentary from the 99 champions league final.

AND SOLSKJAER HAS DONE IT!!!!!!!!

I still get goosebumps when I hear it.

TheDoc

Adamocovic wrote: »

We've talked about him in bits all season but what a year Memphis has had at Lyon.

Tip on the ice-berg must have been the hat-trick at the weekend to guarantee Champions League football for them in their 3-2 win.

In 51 appearances for Lyon this year he has 22 goals and 16 assists. Won the Lyon fans over during this season, some doubted him coming into it and during early parts.

Next year will be interesting to see how he does with Champions League action. I know most don't want us going back there but if he has another wonderful season next year he will be only 25 and maybe worth the activation of the buy-back clause, depending on our needs and situation.

Everyone knows my feelings on him but the big question will be if he would ever want to come back.

I think he'd be right to ignore any approach while Mourinho is the manager, but after his departure its a tantalising option if he keeps up this form.

Trigger

Business Cat wrote: »

Gotta ask, have you been deaf since birth?

If so, as a United fan, you have some quality commentary to catch up on.

First port of call when your ready should be the ITV commentary from the 99 champions league final.

AND SOLSKJAER HAS DONE IT!!!!!!!!

I still get goosebumps when I hear it.

I first found out when I was 12 that I was profoundly deaf in one ear, fortunately my other ear was making up for it until I was about 16 when I noticed that my other ear was going down, it was ok for a while until the early noughties when it started to deteriorate until probably 3/4 years ago when I was struggling with a high powered hearing aid. I relied on Lipreading, which even the doctors where surprised at how good I was . Was referred thru a family friend who is my ENT doctor to Beaumont for the Cochlear programme about 4 years ago, lots of tests and finally got called for surgery at the end of last year but I had to defer as the wee lad came along. Kinda glad as I was off my face on drugs for one of the Sevilla games in Hospital, so that helped :pac: if there is anyone you know that would qualify for a Cochlear implant or anyone that is in two minds over it, I can’t recommend it enough. The team in Beaumont are brilliant too.

Anyways I’m rambling but yeah I’ve heard that commentary

Crimson King

TheDoc wrote: »

Everyone knows my feelings on him but the big question will be if he would ever want to come back.

I think he'd be right to ignore any approach while Mourinho is the manager, but after his departure its a tantalising option if he keeps up this form.

That's an interesting one, regarding buy back clauses. What are the players rights in these matters? Haven't Real Madrid had these type of clauses in the past and triggered them just with the sole intention of selling the players at a profit?

I know that was the claim with Morata at the time but no one matched their valuation so they kept him for a season. I wonder did the player have any say in this matter other than refusing to sign a contract.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/999634256656830466

Shakhtar president Rinat Akhmetov confirms Man City January bid: "They offered us around €50m for Fred."

Says Shakhtar will now "sell Fred to a good and strong club, do not doubt it"

We are not doubting, Rinat.

Cantona's Collars

astradave wrote: »

I first found out when I was 12 that I was profoundly deaf in one ear, fortunately my other ear was making up for it until I was about 16 when I noticed that my other ear was going down, it was ok for a while until the early noughties when it started to deteriorate until probably 3/4 years ago when I was struggling with a high powered hearing aid. I relied on Lipreading, which even the doctors where surprised at how good I was . Was referred thru a family friend who is my ENT doctor to Beaumont for the Cochlear programme about 4 years ago, lots of tests and finally got called for surgery at the end of last year but I had to defer as the wee lad came along. Kinda glad as I was off my face on drugs for one of the Sevilla games in Hospital, so that helped :pac: if there is anyone you know that would qualify for a Cochlear implant or anyone that is in two minds over it, I can’t recommend it enough. The team in Beaumont are brilliant too.

Anyways I’m rambling but yeah I’ve heard that commentary

The one downside is that you'll now hear the likes of Michael Owen and Jim Beglin on commentary.

Julez

Crimson King wrote: »

That's an interesting one, regarding buy back clauses. What are the players rights in these matters? Haven't Real Madrid had these type of clauses in the past and triggered them just with the sole intention of selling the players at a profit?

I know that was the claim with Morata at the time but no one matched their valuation so they kept him for a season. I wonder did the player have any say in this matter other than refusing to sign a contract.

It just means the club have to accept the offer and you are free to negotiate with the player. The player will still need to agree to terms, there is nothing saying that they have to accept.

jayo26

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

The one downside is that you'll now hear the likes of Michael Owen and Jim Beglin on commentary.

Imagine hearing Liam Spratt commentary for the first time.... yikes

Cantona's Collars

jayo26 wrote: »

Imagine hearing Liam Spratt commentary for the first time.... yikes

A thing of beauty. "It's a goal, it's a point,nooo!! It's wide"
What do ya think of that eh Billy?

"It's quare bad Liam".

Adamocovic

astradave wrote: »

I first found out when I was 12 that I was profoundly deaf in one ear, fortunately my other ear was making up for it until I was about 16 when I noticed that my other ear was going down, it was ok for a while until the early noughties when it started to deteriorate until probably 3/4 years ago when I was struggling with a high powered hearing aid. I relied on Lipreading, which even the doctors where surprised at how good I was . Was referred thru a family friend who is my ENT doctor to Beaumont for the Cochlear programme about 4 years ago, lots of tests and finally got called for surgery at the end of last year but I had to defer as the wee lad came along. Kinda glad as I was off my face on drugs for one of the Sevilla games in Hospital, so that helped :pac: if there is anyone you know that would qualify for a Cochlear implant or anyone that is in two minds over it, I can’t recommend it enough. The team in Beaumont are brilliant too.

Anyways I’m rambling but yeah I’ve heard that commentary

Great stuff! I know a relative who go a Cochlear implant not too long ago too, timing is bad though if Pool win haha! :pac:

To celebrate give the implant a test by listening to Smalling's accent which catches us by surprise every time!

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/999658462085877761

"#Juventus is working to define the operation #Darmian: it closes in the next days with Man United, the green light coming soon."

J. Marston

One of Di Marzio's guys says done deal for Fred and medical soon...

https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/999657910400626693

Adamocovic

What's peoples views on Fred?

Can't say I know much about him at all. Don't keep up to date with Shakhtar Donetsk or the Ukranian football league. All I know is from looking him up online, and not a great way to make a decision on him haha!

hufpc8w3adnk65

Where exactly does Fred play? I know he’s a cm but but what role? Who would he be comparable too?

Lord TSC

Someone did a bit of a write up that's more a collection of quotes and info on Fred over on reddit

There's been a few reliable links to us signing him, with some now saying it's done. So I thought I'd see if i can find out what sort of player we could potentially have if he comes.

In his own words, he controls the midfield.

"Fonseca allows me to play both offensively and defensively, and my main task is to change the direction of attacking moves. Under Lucescu, forwards and full-backs were responsible for that, but now I am the conductor. Everything had changed completely. The coach trusts me and sees qualities that went unnoticed by Lucescu," Fred said***.*** This is something we have been crying out for, Matic is there to defend, Pogba is there to surge forward. With respect to Herrera, he's limited going forward. Fred on the other hand is technically very sound. It feels like a long time since we had a player that can establish a tempo, and then carry the ball forward with the ability to make a key pass rather than just laying it off side ways.

In the words of his manager, who is quite highly rated himself; Fonseca, He has remarkable playmaking skills of the midfielder, who is unpredictable thanks to magnificent ball control with both feet -- he is naturally left-footed, but is able to use his right with the same precision. It's not just his ability going forward, he is also tenacious defensively and is brilliant when being pressed. There is a reason Pep was so keen to sign him.

According to WhoScored, these are his strengths and it seems to back up what both the player himself and the manager spoke about, as well as other people who've watched him play.

Key passes
Very Strong

Defensive contribution
Very Strong

Passing
Strong

Long shots
Strong

Fred's Style of Play
Gets fouled often
Counter attack threat
Likes to do layoffs
Likes to dribble
Likes to tackle

I just want to note. WhoScored and other stastistical based sites are not gospel, and using them on their own to describe a player just doesn't tell the whole story. But in this case, I feel like the data supports the assessment that a lot of people have of him. A tempo setting midfielder who can pass well, and contributes defensively. Something our midfield is desperate for, I believe with Fred, we could see a genuine rhythm to our play rather than just passing it forward and going sideways.

Doing some further reading, I found some more information on how he operates; When it comes to the duties of a central midfielder, Fred can do it all. A gifted passer off either foot, he is able to break the lines of the opposition either via incisive through-balls or powerful dribbles. The Brazilian is also defensively aware, often seen sprinting back towards his own goal to break up play, compensating for the errors of team-mates. I don't know the rules on links here so I won't include it, but google a scouting report on him and you can find one showing examples of what he does in deep detail with annotated examples of how he plays.

Important note; I have only seen him play twice. So I can't personally comment and how good he is, the point of the post is sum up how other people view him and the data that backs up what they say.

jayo26

MrMac84 wrote: »

Where exactly does Fred play? I know he’s a cm but but what role? Who would he be comparable too?

He is more defensive midfielder from What ive seen of him. Im no expert but he is more of a technical defensive midfielder then say a physical matic type defensive midfielder if that makes sense.

He is fast and he breaks from deep with the ball.

threein99

Adamocovic wrote: »

What's peoples views on Fred?

Can't say I know much about him at all. Don't keep up to date with Shakhtar Donetsk or the Ukranian football league. All I know is from looking him up online, and not a great way to make a decision on him haha!

Best mascot in the league

bangkok

Poch has signed new deal with Spurs

J. Marston

bangkok wrote: »

Poch has signed new deal with Spurs

I give his "trophies don't matter" mantra another 12-18 months before Spurs fans revolt.

TheDoc

Adamocovic wrote: »

What's peoples views on Fred?

Can't say I know much about him at all. All I know is from looking him up online, and not a great way to make a decision on him haha!

Think he is going to be a fan favourite, especially with the younger fans. Has real flair and panache. Isn't the most mobile but built like a brick ****house. Has had a really good rapport with a successive line of managers and is one of those players that instantly commands respect from his peers

Anyone know what Fred's leadership qualities are like? Or those of Savic, Sandro, Willian or most of the other names we're linked with?

There's a lot of talk about the need for 'leaders', and on some level I agree, but rarely a name has been mentioned in regards to who those potential leaders could be. This leadership thing has become very popular in here these last two seasons, but I honestly haven't really seen a name suggested. Just 'someone like Keane...like Robson'.

Where do we buy them? Players can easily be sorted and searched for by their positions in the transfer market, but not really by their mental attributes and qualities.

What if a player is not the best technically, and the club could buy a technically better player than him for the position, but the player has tons of character and leadership qualities? I really could see comments unfolding not before long like "I can't fault the attitude or heart of 'X', but we really need better than him for the position if we want to challenge for major honours ".

We certainly need leaders in there who can inspire other players to raise their game and run through walls, but not every player in the 11 has to be Keano. There can be a balance.

Take Matic for example. A player who had a very good season for us, a definite first team player who doesn't need replacing this Summer in most fans' opinions. I wouldn't swap him for anyone else really and I look forward to seeing him line-out for us again next season. But, is Matic a leader? He honestly doesn't come across as one to me, but that never bothered me or came across as something which detracted from me rating Matic.

Rather than the whole team, I'd be looking at certain areas in the team which are crying out for leadership. That back-line of ours for example, including full backs, is totally devoid. If that group of players were dropped in the jungle and needed to organise themselves and follow a leader to survive, the Predator would have them skinned alive and hanging from trees by lunch-time.

For years now we have been crying out for that CB leader or 'enforcer'. Since before Jose's time, possibly since before LVG's time (remember Hummels?). Years later, after seeing Jones and Smalling develop but still come up way short in that department, after seeing the club bring in Rojo, Bailly, Lindelof but still come up short, the back-line is still crying out for that vocal fulcrum.

I'd like to think that Alderweireld fits that description. Even if it's not him though, it's something the club needs to sort this Summer. We have a fairly stacked roster of CBs with some genuine talent in there, but there's still too much of the 'headless chicken' aspect despite all of the investment.

Finally. We tend to mention leadership as if it's something which can only be bought in the transfer market this Summer. I would have thought that it was also something that could be instilled by a manager in his players.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone know what Fred's leadership qualities are like?

TheDoc wrote: »

Think he is going to be a fan favourite, especially with the younger fans. Has real flair and panache. Isn't the most mobile but built like a brick ****house. Has had a really good rapport with a successive line of managers and is one of those players that instantly commands respect from his peers

That's welcome news. Nice one Doc.

Also...

Simon Stone just published this on the BBC website...

Simon Stone at the BBC wrote:

Manchester United have made enquiries about Tottenham defender Toby Alderweireld and Shakhtar Donetsk midfielder Fred.

The two players would cost United a combined fee in excess of £100m as manager Jose Mourinho seeks to strengthen the spine of his team.
Alderweireld's future at Tottenham is in doubt, with no agreement in place to extend his contract at the club.

United defender Matteo Darmian, meanwhile, is interesting Juventus.
The Italian, 28, has a year left on his contract and started only five Premier League games for United during the season just completed.

Along with Daley Blind and Luke Shaw, Darmian has little future at the club as Mourinho, who signed a new contract in January that will keep him at Old Trafford until at least 2020, seeks reinforcements.

United finished second in the Premier League - their highest placing since Sir Alex Ferguson retired in 2013 - but were 19 points behind champions Manchester City.

Belgium defender Alderweireld and Brazil midfielder Fred have both been selected for their World Cup squads, meaning that unless deals can be done within the next fortnight, they are likely to have to wait until after the tournament.

Alderweireld, 29, was involved in just six Tottenham games after declaring he had recovered from a hamstring injury in January, having failed to force his way back into the team.

The defender, one of the few senior players that head coach Maurico Pochettino is willing to lose, has a contract that is set to expire in 12 months' time, but there is the option of a one-year extension. If that were activated, a clause within it would allow him to leave for £25m at the end of next season.

Fred, 25, has been heavily linked with Manchester City ,but they have since turned their attentions to Napoli midfielder Jorginho, leaving the way clear for United to negotiate with Shakhtar.

Rinat Akhmetov, Shakhtar's president, has indicated that Fred will cost more than the £34m that Manchester City paid for Fernandinho in 2013, and the reported £43.8m that allowed midfielder Alex Teixeira to join Chinese club Jiangsu Suning in 2016.

"We will sell Fred to a good and strong club, do not doubt it," Akhmetov told the Great Football program on Ukraine's Football 1. told the Great Football program on Ukraine's Football 1.
"He will cost the potential buyer more than Fernandinho and be even more expensive than Alex Teixeira."

Mourinho still hopes midfielder Marouane Fellaini will sign a new contract, although the Belgian has yet to make a final decision and hopes are receding at Old Trafford that he will stay now that he can leave for nothing.

That's more welcome news.

Trigger

Think the joke went right over your head

astradave

astradave wrote: »

Think the joke went right over your head

Ah...so Fred is the opposite of that part I highlighted from Doc's post?

Edit: Yeah, it went way way over my head. It's not as if it was hard to spot, but in my defense I was multi-tasking and not looking at the images :pac:

So...

WTF is Fred the non-Red like as a leader? Anyone?

Cotts72

If we could sign both Fred and Alderweireld over the next 2 weeks it would be a brilliant start to the window and a serious statement of intent