Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

Mr.H

United park the bus at 0-0 so it kinda is the point

Lord TSC

jbt123 wrote: »

When a team is 3 nil up at half time, then the transformation from Ferrari to a yellow bus is ok.

City were schooled tonight.

So was there an issue when we did it at 2-0 against Pool a few weeks back, and made it so that we had to score for them to get a sniff of a chance? Or does that third goal have some mythical importance that makes containing and defending ok?

Technophobe

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So 3-0 is the line where you can sit back not 2 or what I get confused trying to keep up with all the inconsistencies at times

In fairness, his point is correct in that it is more acceptable and sensible to sit back on a 3 nil lead than to start that way..

Think that is what he means..

Technophobe

Technophobe wrote: »

In fairness, his point is correct in that it is more acceptable and sensible to sit back on a 3 nil lead than to start that way..

Think that is what he means..

I was just wondering as there were games this season where United didn't sit back and got ahead early and got a number of goals up and then sat back after. Some people had a problem with this when Jose did it but when other managers do it they don't seem to have a problem.

So I was just trying to tease out what the conditions for that are.

Mr.H

Lord TSC wrote:

So was there an issue when we did it at 2-0 against Pool a few weeks back, and made it so that we had to score for them to get a sniff of a chance? Or does that third goal have some mythical importance that makes containing and defending ok?

I have no issue when you are winning. But the bus often comes out when your not.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Lord TSC wrote: »

So was there an issue when we did it at 2-0 against Pool a few weeks back, and made it so that we had to score for them to get a sniff of a chance? Or does that third goal have some mythical importance that makes containing and defending ok?

I think the point is, have something to defend before you park the bus. It was totally the right tactic against Liverpool and should be used when effective. Jose, however, parks it a little too early and a little too often.

I'd love to see you guys go out and have a real go at City as well, just to see what would happen. If would give other teams a bit of an idea what to do against them next season as well.

redzerdrog

Not that hard to understand one us trying to win the game the other isn't.

jayo26

We still manage a way to fight each other even when we ain't playing and haven't lost a game in.... must be 3 weeks now?

redzerdrog

redzerdrog wrote: »

Not that hard to understand one us trying to win the game the other isn't.

For me I'm just asking a posters why he thinks its ok to sit back and defend a lead for klopp but not Jose, not talking about the sitting back from the start. It goes back in this thread further then tonight no one is having a dig at doing it just asking why the inconsistencies in here from some posters is all

jayo26

jayo26 wrote: »

We still manage a way to fight each other even when we ain't playing and haven't lost a game in.... must be 3 weeks now?

Shut you face......... :pac:

jayo26

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Shut you face......... :pac:

Your mother

Technophobe

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I was just wondering as there were games this season where United didn't sit back and got ahead early and got a number of goals up and then sat back after. Some people had a problem with this when Jose did it but when other managers do it they don't seem to have a problem.

So I was just trying to tease out what the conditions for that are.

Yea, fair enough so:)
I think the context here (Not yours btw) is the way we have ( or have been perceived to have) set up for certain games this season..
He was dead right in the Liverpool home win obviously..

Trigger

The point i was trying to make with my initial post was that there is more than one way to get at this City team. Obsorbing the pressure and playing quick direct balls to the space that the fullbacks leave more often than not creates opportunities there. An assured defensive display can nullify the City attack by leaving no space for them to move in the final third.

We have the likes of Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez, Martial, Rashford and Lingard who have the pace and skillset to hurt City on the counter. We have seen these type of goals time and time again for us so its not out of the realms of fantasy

Turtwig

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Shut you face......... :pac:

Banned.

jayo26 wrote: »

Your mother

Banned also.

...

Trigger

I like a mod with a GSOH.




Its a pity Turtwig hasn't found his yet

Turtwig

Turtwig wrote: »

Banned.



Banned also.

...

yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Technophobe

astradave wrote: »

I like a mod with a GSOH.




Its a pity Turtwig hasn't found his yet

Not yet banned for trolling a mod

jbt123

Lord TSC wrote: »

So was there an issue when we did it at 2-0 against Pool a few weeks back, and made it so that we had to score for them to get a sniff of a chance? Or does that third goal have some mythical importance that makes containing and defending ok?

I'd be very interested in how Mourinho approaches the game on Saturday. I mean he really has to change it up a gear.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Or in the words of Del Boy.....

"He who dares Rodney,..... "

But I'm sure he's been working on a new system of attack in the last day or so........

Just to stop the noisy neighbours, and all that.

StringerBell

Liverpool played offensive tonight? I thought they capitalised on horrific defending and defended very well themselves for the most part getting 11 behind the ball and breaking with speed. They had fantastic defensive positioning for the most part tonight, a really good job done tactically on pep who has again shown that when plan A fails, there is no plan B.

LeeJM

If there is one term I hate now its parking the bus. Being solid defensively is not some big negative thing. It is a foundation on which you build upon to win a game. Liverpool tonight were first and foremost solid defensively and allowed City no space to play their one twos and for Sane/Silva/KDB to cut in from outside and cause them trouble.

City on the other hand were the total opposite. Playing a CB at LB against IMO the Player of the Year in Salah was madness. Walker was again found to be wanting in a high pressure situation while Ottemendi did Ottemendi things and Kompany well he's a shadow of his former self. Klopp prepared his team whereas Pep expected to show up and win and that was the difference.

Whether Utd win or not on Saturday, whether we go balls to wall with 8 attackers on the pitch or we sit back and absorb pressure all day matters little to me. City have won the league this season, Saturday won't change that but tonight proved that City are not the juggernaut some (even some in here who are now unsurprisingly on the Klopp bandwagon) would have you believe. They have weaknesses and I have seen enough constant improvement from us under Jose to believe next season will be very different to this. And to circle back to my main point my belief on that comes from us first and foremost being solid defensively unlike City

StringerBell

StringerBell wrote: »

Liverpool played offensive tonight? I thought they capitalised on horrific defending and defended very well themselves for the most part getting 11 behind the ball and breaking with speed. They had fantastic defensive positioning for the most part tonight, a really good job done tactically on pep who has again shown that when plan A fails, there is no plan B.

Oh yeah, forgot to say with regards to Pep's lack of a plan B. Not to worry, nothing another 300/400 million won't sort out sure.

Cantona's Collars

Let's have some transfer gossip/nonsense.

The s*n saying that Fabihno will force through a move to United.
Also claiming that Jose wants Mata out and Willian to replace him.

Trigger

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Let's have some transfer gossip/nonsense.

The s*n saying that Fabihno will force through a move to United.
Also claiming that Jose wants Mata out and Willian to replace him.

Willian would be my ideal player for the right side, bags of experience too.

Lord TSC

StringerBell wrote: »

Liverpool played offensive tonight? I thought they capitalised on horrific defending and defended very well themselves for the most part getting 11 behind the ball and breaking with speed. They had fantastic defensive positioning for the most part tonight, a really good job done tactically on pep who has again shown that when plan A fails, there is no plan B.

It's why I had little problems with how we approached Pool this year. Breaking at speed is what they do best, and despite what some in here would like to see, "playing football" against Pool is suicidal, as City found out last night.

Their front threee are probably one of the best counter attacking groups out there right now, and they will eat you alive if you have a high line with gaps to expose them. Jose outlined how to handle Pool this year but Pep does what Pep does; he went to Anfield and played right into Klopps hands.

Pool aren't a hard team to counter, but you have to play ugly to do it.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

It's why I had little problems with how we approached Pool this year. Breaking at speed is what they do best, and despite what some in here would like to see, "playing football" against Pool is suicidal, as City found out last night.

Their front threee are probably one of the best counter attacking groups out there right now, and they will eat you alive if you have a high line with gaps to expose them. Jose outlined how to handle Pool this year but Pep does what Pep does; he went to Anfield and played right into Klopps hands.

Pool aren't a hard team to counter, but you have to play ugly to do it.

Yet we have martial rashford lingard who are all lightning fast and lukaku/sanchez who are also very quick why cant we do it??

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

Yet we have martial rashford lingard who are all lightning fast and lukaku/sanchez who are also very quick why cant we do it??

I've pondered that multiple times this season. At a guess, because many of those players seem to struggle to play fast AND efficiently in a counter at he same time. There's a disconnect where our defenders can't play out quickly, the midfield lacks a killer ball at times, and our strikers aren't as clinical as they need to be when they get that ball once every hundred times.

We also have the issue that a lot of teams play very deep against us, not affording us the space to counter. Typically, we've been good against teams that don't. I think we are second in the "top six" table as well.

Mind, a friendly reminder that "we did it" not long ago against Pool as well.

brinty

Lord TSC wrote: »

I've pondered that multiple times this season. At a guess, because many of those players seem to struggle to play fast AND efficiently in a counter at he same time. There's a disconnect where our defenders can't play out quickly, the midfield lacks a killer ball at times, and our strikers aren't as clinical as they need to be when they get that ball once every hundred times.

We also have the issue that a lot of teams play very deep against us, not affording us the space to counter. Typically, we've been good against teams that don't. I think we are second in the "top six" table as well.

Mind, a friendly reminder that "we did it" not long ago against Pool as well.

tsk... sake TSC.. sure weren't those just long balls smashed down the pitch, won a header and in behind!!!! That's not the beautiful Klopp/Pep ball way of doing things...

but yes i would agree with what you say entirely. Teams sit deep and compact against us and we need to learn to draw them out of their shape and create chances (which city and pool have been doing). I've been saying it for ages if we could get a passer like a kross or modric type to play in the three with Matic and Pogba we'd go a long way toward fixing this.

Look at De Bruyne and Silva, both started as attacking players but have dropped in now dictate play for their teams. If we could get that equivalent type player we should close the gap on City next season.

I also think Jose needs two full backs who can get up and down the lines but are defensively sound too.. Valencia and young are not getting younger and are converted wingers.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

I've pondered that multiple times this season. At a guess, because many of those players seem to struggle to play fast AND efficiently in a counter at he same time. There's a disconnect where our defenders can't play out quickly, the midfield lacks a killer ball at times, and our strikers aren't as clinical as they need to be when they get that ball once every hundred times.

We also have the issue that a lot of teams play very deep against us, not affording us the space to counter. Typically, we've been good against teams that don't. I think we are second in the "top six" table as well.

Mind, a friendly reminder that "we did it" not long ago against Pool as well.

Teams sit deep against pool as well.

They just function better as a team, we still have too many individuals on our team and dont link well together

Lord TSC

brinty wrote: »

but yes i would agree with what you say entirely. Teams sit deep and compact against us and we need to learn to draw them out of their shape and create chances (which city and pool have been doing). I've been saying it for ages if we could get a passer like a kross or modric type to play in the three with Matic and Pogba we'd go a long way toward fixing this.

Look at De Bruyne and Silva, both started as attacking players but have dropped in now dictate play for their teams. If we could get that equivalent type player we should close the gap on City next season.

I also think Jose needs two full backs who can get up and down the lines but are defensively sound too.. Valencia and young are not getting younger and are converted wingers.

I don't know if we will be able to draw out the teams that sit so deep tbh. (Especially when the fans start booing some backwards passes when thats attempted too). I think, though, that getting in better passers, who can try and get accurate balls into the box, would be a massive help.

At the moment, nothing comes down the right, which is usually just Valencia on his own. A RW and a RB would improve us so much, its hilarious. At least on the left, you've got some selection of Rashford, Sanchez and Martial.

But yeah, agree overall.

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

Teams sit deep against pool as well.

They just function better as a team, we still have too many individuals on our team and dont link well together

Actually fully agree with that. And its worth noting then that for all Pool play "better" football, they're in a worse position, league wise, than us too. So if they are hitting their pique, and we're struggling, imagine how we'll shoot on next season if Jose can get us firing on all cylinders.

Now, the issue becomes...do you support the manager if he agrees with that mentality and thus considers replacing some of those individuals with better "team players". Cause as much as I like Pogba and Martial, those two are right up on top of that list right now....

If you disagree with it, then who are the "individuals" you'd consider the problem on the field, and who would you look to ship out this summer?

brinty

Lord TSC wrote: »

I don't know if we will be able to draw out the teams that sit so deep tbh. (Especially when the fans start booing some backwards passes when thats attempted too). I think, though, that getting in better passers, who can try and get accurate balls into the box, would be a massive help.

At the moment, nothing comes down the right, which is usually just Valencia on his own. A RW and a RB would improve us so much, its hilarious. At least on the left, you've got some selection of Rashford, Sanchez and Martial.

But yeah, agree overall.

Exactly this, was there a chart in the pool game i think which showed 30% of our play was down the left flank, 60% in the middle and <10% down the right!!!!

yep, some better passers would certainly help sir

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

Actually fully agree with that. And its worth noting then that for all Pool play "better" football, they're in a worse position, league wise, than us too. So if they are hitting their pique, and we're struggling, imagine how we'll shoot on next season if Jose can get us firing on all cylinders.

Now, the issue becomes...do you support the manager if he agrees with that mentality and thus considers replacing some of those individuals with better "team players". Cause as much as I like Pogba and Martial, those two are right up on top of that list right now....

If you disagree with it, then who are the "individuals" you'd consider the problem on the field, and who would you look to ship out this summer?

I wouldnt sell either martial or pogba.

Zlatan gone, carrick going, looking like darmian blind and fellaini all gone as well. Would also sell smalling.

Our issue is there are too many gaps between the lines. When we attack the gap between our defence-midfield and attack is huge. We dont do it as a unit, i think that blame lies at the managers door

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

I wouldnt sell either martial or pogba.

Zlatan gone, carrick going, looking like darmian blind and fellaini all gone as well. Would also sell smalling.

Our issue is there are too many gaps between the lines. When we attack the gap between our defence-midfield and attack is huge. We dont do it as a unit, i think that blame lies at the managers door

So there's an issue with individuals, and not "team players".

And yet 4 of the 6 players you mention don't actually play really. Fellaini barely plays. So the only change you're proposing there is to remove Smalling from the team in order to fix the issue of "individuals" over "team players".

I agree there's an issue with the characters on the field, but your response doesn't actually offer a suggestion as to how to fix that. "Playing like individuals" is an issue Jose or a new manager would need to address, and part of it would be offloading the offending players...

brinty

Lord TSC wrote: »

So there's an issue with individuals, and not "team players".

And yet 4 of the 6 players you mention don't actually play really. Fellaini barely plays. So the only change you're proposing there is to remove Smalling from the team in order to fix the issue of "individuals" over "team players".

I agree there's an issue with the characters on the field, but your response doesn't actually offer a suggestion as to how to fix that. "Playing like individuals" is an issue Jose or a new manager would need to address, and part of it would be offloading the offending players...

now now TSC you should know better... moving goalposts and all that!!!!

Although i'd fully agree if smalling could be sold for any kind of decent money I'd ship him out. Bailly and Lindeloff with Rojo and Jones supporting is plenty. Fosu Mensah is coming back end of the season and can be the fifth centre back.

Lord TSC

brinty wrote: »

now now TSC you should know better... moving goalposts and all that!!!!

Although i'd fully agree if smalling could be sold for any kind of decent money I'd ship him out. Bailly and Lindeloff with Rojo and Jones supporting is plenty. Fosu Mensah is coming back end of the season and can be the fifth centre back.

Oh yeah, I've been on the "Sell Smalling" train for a while now tbh. But its not the answer to our larger issues.

Smalling isn't the reason we can't launch a counter attack, which was the original matter at hand...

Leroy42

The plan for the weekend surely has to be to hit them hard and fast in the 1st half. Hit them with everything we have. No sitting back. A loss means nothing (either does a win in reality but matches are there to be won).

City have been dealt quite a blow to their confidence last night. Not only the players, but Pep as well. Up till now this season they were the second coming. All roads lead to greatness.

And they are a great team. But they can be got at. And Liverpool (along with a few others) have shown how to do it. Don't let them settle, don't let them have time. Chase everything. Close down Ederson and his passing from the back. Make them make quick decisions and we saw last night that they make mistakes like everyone else.

A win won't change much this season, but it will show that we can do it an be a great fill-up before the FA semi. And increase in the doubts in City. Too late for this year, but next year.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

So there's an issue with individuals, and not "team players".

And yet 4 of the 6 players you mention don't actually play really. Fellaini barely plays. So the only change you're proposing there is to remove Smalling from the team in order to fix the issue of "individuals" over "team players".

I agree there's an issue with the characters on the field, but your response doesn't actually offer a suggestion as to how to fix that. "Playing like individuals" is an issue Jose or a new manager would need to address, and part of it would be offloading the offending players...

Sanchez has only been signed but he just doesnt look right in the team so not going to sell him.

Pogba was signed for a world record fee and is only in his 2nd season, so not going to sell him

We are playing city this saturday, its a chance and a massive one at that to beat city. They will be wounded from last night AND they will be resting players for liverpool. We have had a full week to prepare for this game. I want to see us play attacking football and take the game to city, press them high up the field and spoil their party but i just dont think jose has it in him to do that

brinty

Lord TSC wrote: »

Oh yeah, I've been on the "Sell Smalling" train for a while now tbh. But its not the answer to our larger issues.

Smalling isn't the reason we can't launch a counter attack, which was the original matter at hand...

Absolutely agree mate Smalling and counter attack should never be in the same sentence :eek:

If you we're looking to solve the problem of individuals you need to get rid of Pogba, Martial straight away and Alexis. Obviously Pogba and Alexis won't be going anywhere but Jose might've had it with Martial and see him as a sellable asset if he could get in Willian to balance us and play on the right side.

For me i think there should be a lot of bodies going out the door this summer.

Carrick and Zlatan confirmed. Fellaini is going.

Shaw, Blind, Darmian and Herrera have barely been used sparingly this year and could be surplus to requirements for the right kind of money.

So on that I'm saying we could lose up to 8 players. I don't think everyone of them will be sold but that could be what Jose does.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

I wouldnt sell either martial or pogba.

Zlatan gone, carrick going, looking like darmian blind and fellaini all gone as well. Would also sell smalling.

Our issue is there are too many gaps between the lines. When we attack the gap between our defence-midfield and attack is huge. We dont do it as a unit, i think that blame lies at the managers door

Therein lies your problem, you obsolve the players that are on the pitch of any blame for problems. Time and time again you can see Jose on the sidelines telling the players to push up to support, he can’t be out there on the pitch holding their hands. Now that’s not to obsolve Jose of any blame as he has made plenty of mistakes during his tenure but what manager hasn’t.

Take Pogba for instance, he has a bad game and misplaces 5 yard passes. Yet to you that’s the problem of the manager playing him in a midfield two. That’s bull****, that’s player application..

Lord TSC

https://twitter.com/premierleague/status/981831143266881536?s=21

Jose up for manager of the month, with Pep, Dyche and Peul. Results for each were...


Jose
Win vs Liverpool
win vs Palace
Win vs Swansea

Puel
Draw vs Bournemouth
Win vs Brighton
Win vs West Brom

Pep
Win vs Arsenal
Win vs Chelsea
Win vs Stoke
Win vs Everton

Dyche
Win vs Everton
Win vs West Ham
Win vs West Brom

Meanwhile, Lukaku gets a nomination for player of the month.

https://twitter.com/EASPORTSFIFA/status/981833827709419525

The Fifa player in me can't stand the idea of Salah or Son winning....

Cantona's Collars

brinty wrote: »

Exactly this, was there a chart in the pool game i think which showed 30% of our play was down the left flank, 60% in the middle and <10% down the right!!!!

yep, some better passers would certainly help sir

I was reading about this and it's been a tactic used by the likes of City aswell,a weakness was identified and exploited, TAA and Lovren.
The big but though is that we rely too much on our left as the service from the right is poor to non existent. Watching Valencia run forward,stop,do his little dance and pass back is not good for free flowing attacks. Imagine him on the Liverpool right instead of Salah, they'd fail to function as the lethal attack they can be.

paulbok

astradave wrote: »

Therein lies your problem, you obsolve the players that are on the pitch of any blame for problems. Time and time again you can see Jose on the sidelines telling the players to push up to support, he can’t be out there on the pitch holding their hands. Now that’s not to obsolve Jose of any blame as he has made plenty of mistakes during his tenure but what manager hasn’t.

Take Pogba for instance, he has a bad game and misplaces 5 yard passes. Yet to you that’s the problem of the manager playing him in a midfield two. That’s bull****, that’s player application..

I get what you are saying, but those non-playing squad players need to be first out the door. If Jose doesn't rate them enough to come in and replace the 1st team players who aren't doing it on the pitch, then ship those out and replace with new 1st team players or at least players good enough to challenge the established players. No point shipping out those currently on the pitch and still having a bench full that don't get played.

Get in some new players that will either replace the likes of Young & Valencia at fb, or will put serious pressure on the likes of Pogba, Sanchez, & Rashford to perform consistently on the pitch. New players Jose would have no problem in replacing those 3 with on the pitch (not limiting it just to those 3 I named).
That also improves the overall quality of the squad which we know needs to improve as well as the match day team.

Potentially 5/6 out and 4/5 in is enough changes for one window otherwise we are back to full rebuilding mode instead of kicking on from our improved position this year.

bangkok

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

I was reading about this and it's been a tactic used by the likes of City aswell,a weakness was identified and exploited, TAA and Lovren.
The big but though is that we rely too much on our left as the service from the right is poor to non existent. Watching Valencia run forward,stop,do his little dance and pass back is not good for free flowing attacks. Imagine him on the Liverpool right instead of Salah, they'd fail to function as the lethal attack they can be.

Valencia is right back for us, salah is a right inside forward for liverpool. 2 completly different positions

Trigger

So I see Tony Martial gonna be a dad again.. his missus posted it up on Instagram..

Adamocovic

It would be lovely to pile onto City's misery.

Cantona's Collars

bangkok wrote: »

Valencia is right back for us, salah is a right inside forward for liverpool. 2 completly different positions

I'll use small words to explain, Valencia is used as our primary attacking threat on the right as we have no dedicated right winger. That's where the comparison with Salah begins and ends.
As a result our attack is too heavily reliant on the left side of the pitch. Anyone we put on the right has an instinct to cut inside so our attack becomes very narrow and easy to nullify.Depending on Valencia as our sole source of width on the right will rarely reap dividends. I was sitting literally a few metres from the end line on Saturday and watched him run into acres of space and then go blank and just hit an aimless ball to nobody and had Mata bollocking him for not looking up and picking him out for a tap in.

Cantona's Collars

astradave wrote: »

So I see Tony Martial gonna be a dad again.. his missus posted it up on Instagram..

Which missus?

brinty

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Which missus?

the new one....

bangkok

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

I'll use small words to explain, Valencia is used as our primary attacking threat on the right as we have no dedicated right winger. That's where the comparison with Salah begins and ends.
As a result our attack is too heavily reliant on the left side of the pitch. Anyone we put on the right has an instinct to cut inside so our attack becomes very narrow and easy to nullify.Depending on Valencia as our sole source of width on the right will rarely reap dividends. I was sitting literally a few metres from the end line on Saturday and watched him run into acres of space and then go blank and just hit an aimless ball to nobody and had Mata bollocking him for not looking up and picking him out for a tap in.

Salah also cuts inside onto his left, everytime, he is the same as mata who plays on our right only he is much quicker and more devastating.

astradave

astradave wrote: »

So I see Tony Martial gonna be a dad again.. his missus posted it up on Instagram..

Sounds like he needs to read up on the 'Love Glove'