Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

Lord TSC

Mourinho on McTominay, "He lost more passes today than all of his other games combined but you can see he's a Manchester United player. A Manchester United player has the personality to contribute to the team even when not playing well."

Mourinho on Shaw sub, "I wanted to defend better, I wanted more personality in the team because many many times I felt Matic was an island, he was surrounded by a lack of personality, a lack of class and a lack of desire."

Mourinho, "When you have a team of 11 and not even a minimum of six who are playing well or want to play. When I spend 2 days working on fast build up and I see attacking players hiding behind defenders I have to feel frustrated."

SlickRic

Lord TSC wrote: »

Bit like City overshadowing us, Salah is overshadowing Lukaku, making him look less impressive. But I adore Lukaku; he busts his gut every game, scores goals, gets assists and is a proper leader. He's been a brilliant signing, and I'm hoping he builds on it next season too.

It's only when seen full games recently that I've noticed just how much he does on his own; just how much he makes out of nothing, and just how hard it is for him in so many gamea where he just doesn't have the support.

Something has clicked recently.

adox

SlickRic wrote: »

Josutting it on the players.

Genuine question - do you guys think this is all calculated? Or is he losing it a little?

I think he was as much to blame as the players for going out of Europe. He took his pragmatic approach to near cowardice to try and get over the line and it back fired.

Tonight he did genuinely seem frustrated on the sideline and let loose in the interview. Probably a culmination of tonight and the European ties coming out.

I did think he was losing it with his interview during the week.

It’s a fine line now he’s treading and he risks alienating a lot of the players.

Either way I think it may be slowly unraveling.

beno619

Lord TSC wrote: »

As usual, Lukaku and Matic the best performers, looking like the give a damn. But for all the cribbing bout Pogba and Sanchez, without them, we struggle to look creative.

Forget about Sanchez but it's another game we've won without Pogba.

Quandary

Jose clearly frustrated by that performance. It would seem that quite a few players are not able to play the way he wants them to play. Whether that is the fault of the players collectively or the fault of Jose and his coaching staff is up for debate, probably a mixture of both, but one thing is for sure and that is that if the majority of the squad cannot adapt then it is ultimately the manager who will go.

Ninthlife

Lord TSC wrote: »

"When you have a team of 11 and not even a minimum of six who are playing well or want to play."

name the 6

Martial
Shaw
Lingard
Mata
?
?

adox

Love the way whe Lukaku scored he looked over to the bench and gave Jose the thumbs up and Jose did the same. #bromance

adox

Ninthlife wrote: »

name the 6

Martial
Shaw
Lingard
Mata
?
?

Valencia and Martial another couple of times.

Drumpot

Just thinking of the Jose pop at the players.

Decent time to do it. Players can stew over the comments while on international duty. Possibly even find some form with their countries. Come back and either fight for their place or be shipped in the summer.

With the champions league practically sorted the team will most likely not miss out. As such, he can push the team to finish strong and see what they are made of with little to lose.

DM_7

Hiding behind defenders is a striking comment.

Calculated as well that Sanchez and Pogba never got on, that such comments cannot be put on them.

Heat is on anyway and I am glad there is a reaction to performances and not hiding behind the way certain minium requirements are met.

Ninthlife

adox wrote: »

Valencia and Martial another couple of times.

Martial x3 + Shaw x 3= 6

StringerBell

adox wrote: »

Valencia and Martial another couple of times.

Smalling

limnam

StringerBell wrote: »

Smalling

Thought he was ok tbh.

Some nice covering etc.

DM_7

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/975131513342881793?s=19





@sistoney67
JM: "When the sun is shining and everything is going well, every player is a good player. When it is dark and cold - bad results - not everybody has personality to play. "


Think he (also) said this back in September when all was going well. That the real test of play and personality would be later.

StringerBell

limnam wrote: »

Thought he was ok tbh.

Some nice covering etc.

I don't think he was having a pop at him I just thought that's who adox meant insteqd of martial

adox

StringerBell wrote: »

Smalling

Thought he was the better of the two CBs tonight. Thought Bailly was really poor again.

Lord TSC

I wonder how many managers need to criticise Shaws professionalism publically before the cries of "Why Young over Shaw" stop too. This isn't a Jose issue. It's literally every manager who gets near him.

You see how much room Young and Velencia get for us and can't help but wonder what top level full backs would do in our side,

StringerBell

adox wrote: »

Thought he was the better of the two CBs tonight. Thought Bailly was really poor again.

Ah, did you mean bailly when you said martial then?

You know....it's dawned on me it's possible that you just missed martial in the post you were responding to

Ninthlife

adox wrote: »

Thought he was the better of the two CBs tonight. Thought Bailly was really poor again.

Bailly could be a fantastic centre back but seems very raw. Another quality experienced centre back beside him would really bring him on

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

I wonder how many managers need to criticise Shaws professionalism publically before the cries of "Why Young over Shaw" stop too. This isn't a Jose issue. It's literally every manager who gets near him.

You see how much room Young and Velencia get for us and can't help but wonder what top level full backs would do in our side,

I think teams afford Valencia a lot of room as to stop him advancing they show him inside which he usually doesnt fancy and if he does take that route cant deliver quality ball anyways

Lord TSC

Mourinho on Luke Shaw: "Every player can play bad but when you see 'please Mr, take me from the pitch". That is what I thought."

DM_7

Lord TSC wrote: »

I wonder how many managers need to criticise Shaws professionalism publically before the cries of "Why Young over Shaw" stop too. This isn't a Jose issue. It's literally every manager who gets near him.

You see how much room Young and Velencia get for us and can't help but wonder what top level full backs would do in our side,

Young is the best full back at United. Defends well against all types of player and offers a good outlet for passes, moving the ball up field. Valencia is struggling to offer much in attack now. Has become good at covering back but can struggle with tricky players.

I don't think Shaw is a quality defender at all. Not at the moment, part of that would be lack of sharpness/games.

Mars Bar

limnam wrote: »

Jose loves Scot McT.

I like the way he came out and explained he didn't want all this sideways passing.

So if he doesn't want it why do they keep doing it. Bizarre

Because you can't pass through lines if nobody is moving or looking for the ball.
There was one moment in the second half where matic had the ball just at the centre circle of the attacking half and he was begging for movement but mata was way too narrow and nobody else was moving. There was hardly any space because of it. There is no desire to draw out the opposition or play off the ball.

It's so frustrating to watch!

bangkok

Utd 2-0 Brighton






Meh











Goodnight

Will I Am Not

What players do we actually give a sh*t about? Apart from the local lads, De Gea, Bailly, Matic and Lukaku are the only players I would really be concerned with losing through injury or even transfers.

Sanchez is only here a wet week so I wouldn’t be lumping him in any category yet. Pogba and Martial are very talented players but they are not showing enough desire for me. They will be top class at another club no doubt but I can see them as 2 more brilliant players on a frustratingly long list that it just didn’t happen for at United. I do like Mata and he does try his best more than most but he’s far from irreplaceable. The rest are just very forgettable.

J. Marston

https://twitter.com/cmwinterburn/status/975128011732324354

https://twitter.com/cmwinterburn/status/975128256667144193

https://twitter.com/cmwinterburn/status/975128701514985472

Operation: Abandon Ship begins.

doc_17

Jose reckons he’s spent two whole days coaching them to play fast through midfield? Why is he surprised they can’t play decent football then I wonder? Two whole days? It’s no wonder he lost the Real and Chelsea dressing rooms given his comments this past few days.

ericzeking

Ah it's nothing another 300million won't fix.....

Nalz

**** performance tonight

Mourinhos broken metaphorical English

Meh

Just caught up on the game there...

Thought the first half was decent, a much improved mentality and style from what was on show last Tuesday. Jose saying "we trained for two days to attack" - Well it was quite clear he sent them out to do that. I can't really remember one hoof-and-hope in our play in the first half.

Despite the manager's positive intent, turning the key in the Brighton lock was a different story. Some nice interplay between Matic, McTom, Mata and Martial at times in the first half with a desire to attack the line and breakthrough, but just not clinical enough at the vital moment to create enough good chances.

Loved that goal from Lukaku. It was exactly like the kind of header he'd score in his first few months at United. Give him a good ball (or inch perfect, as Matic did) in that situation and there is only one likely outcome.

Then the second half...A bit shíte all round to be honest. Different mentality from the players, sit back and invite the same pressure which eventually let Sevilla score last Tuesday.

There were some "attacking players hiding behind defenders" - Lingard? Martial? Lukaku was clearly still busting a gut, and Mata was still showing for the ball and trying to get a foot in the game. Lingard and Martial sort of disappeared in the second half though. That said, the whole team stepped off a bit in the second half...except Lukaku and Matic.

Luke Shaw, quite a disappointment. He was alright in attack, did good work to tee-up Matic for the Lukaku goal, but Brighton's attacks were coming down our left in Shaw's area. He was abysmal defensively, and what he did in attack was just not enough. Poor Ashley Young almost got a decent rest, only Shaw failed to grab an important chance for himself in the team. Disappointing and also not a great sign for his future at the club..

Finally, my affection for Sergio Romero increases with each game he plays for us. I honestly can't remember the last 'FFS Romero' moment he had in a game. He deserves first team football elsewhere, but I hope he stays at least one more season at United.

So...when's the draw for the semis? It's gonna be Spurs isn't it? Don't care, I wouldn't mind another crack at them to try to avenge that recent defeat.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

How the hell are you lot only up to your second megathread now?? FFS people, season's nearly over...

Lord TSC

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

How the hell are you lot only up to your second megathread now?? FFS people, season's nearly over...

This is the second thread of 2018, not of the season

malinheader

Thought the support was very good last night. Got behind the team and also a good few times sang out for mourinho. It's about time the players and the manager sort whatever is going on because the supporters wont take these pi_ s poor performances much longer.

beno619

Lord TSC wrote: »

Mourinho on Luke Shaw: "Every player can play bad but when you see 'please Mr, take me from the pitch". That is what I thought."

I've just watched the video, he doesn't say this.

https://twitter.com/TheManUtdWay/status/975127837886820352?s=19

Lord TSC

beno619 wrote: »

I've just watched the video, he doesn't say this.

Afaik, that's from the post match press conference. He said McT had a poor game but showed a desire to keep fighting and try to break though that form, whereas Shawnhad a poor game and didn't seem to care much about it.

Feels like last night was a final test for some of the fringe players and they didn't wow Jose with their desire. Honestly thrilled with the fighting words from Jose though; last night wasn't a tactics issue, it was entirely a passion one. It's been said Woodward is fully behind Jose and both are adopting a get on board or get our attitude, and I'm happy to hear that.

Wish we could have 11 Lukakus on the field.

pjohnson

Lord TSC wrote: »

Afaik, that's from the post match press conference. He said McT had a poor game but showed a desire to keep fighting and try to break though that form, whereas Shawnhad a poor game and didn't seem to care much about it.

Feels like last night was a final test for some of the fringe players and they didn't wow Jose with their desire. Honestly thrilled with the fighting words from Jose though; last night wasn't a tactics issue, it was entirely a passion one. It's been said Woodward is fully behind Jose and both are adopting a get on board or get our attitude, and I'm happy to hear that.

Wish we could have 11 Lukakus on the field.

Jordan is an LB so might replace Shaw.

2 down 9 to go!

Drumpot

Lord TSC wrote: »

Afaik, that's from the post match press conference. He said McT had a poor game but showed a desire to keep fighting and try to break though that form, whereas Shawnhad a poor game and didn't seem to care much about it.

Feels like last night was a final test for some of the fringe players and they didn't wow Jose with their desire. Honestly thrilled with the fighting words from Jose though; last night wasn't a tactics issue, it was entirely a passion one. It's been said Woodward is fully behind Jose and both are adopting a get on board or get our attitude, and I'm happy to hear that.

Wish we could have 11 Lukakus on the field.

Yeh I think last night was a marker.

Seville game was a disaster and Jose publically backed players but privately challenged them to put in a performance against Brighton and they failed miserably.

So now the line has been drawn in the sand. I think some players have until end of season to buck up or they are out. Show character , fighting spirit and an ability to raise to the levels expected or you are gone.

I think Jose is finally ready to start a proper challange and feels he has enough players following my his orders to start the cull of players who lack the character to deal with the pressure of being a united player.Up until now has been about continuity of qualifying for champions league (2 seasons in a row), finishing comfortablly in gop 4 and seeing what players can grow into what the manager needs.

Lukaku, even when not scoring, has been immense and is an obvious leader. Pogba has played poorly but not shown any growth , fight or qualities that lukaku has worked hard to improve. Remember Lukaku was getting even more stick then Pogba earlier on in the season. The way both players have reacted tells us a lot about the character of each player. I’m not blaming everything on Pogba, I’m just showing that players reactions to being criticised can tell you a lot.

For all the talk of “Pogba doesn’t get played in his favorite position”, look at United’s support for Lukaku. It’s practically non existent at times. Was it 5 shots on target in the last 3 games united have had? Lukaku doesn’t need anybody excusing his lack of chances or that the team hasn’t been helping him out up front. So why is it ok to give Pogba, a more expensive player with greater expectations, a pass?

Personally I hope Pogba can grow into a stronger character and I wouldn’t be quick to offload him. The worry I have is that he is one of those players who isn’t a leader but somebody who flourishes on a team that’s already playing well. He might just be the icing on the cake, whereas the Lukakus are the base and spine.

With De Gea, Bailly, Matic, Lukaku through the spine of the team I think Jose is happy we finally have a strong base. When you consider that 3 of those 4 joined under Jose it tells us what he thought of the state of the squad when he took over. Also shows the work he has had to do to get the team off the canvas and back into a strong position.

I think that Jose is showing his hand and his expectations for this team will now match up with the fans. He’s finished fire fighting and is ready, over the next 5 months to put the finishing touches to a proper title and champions league challange...

duffman13

Just on Shaw, I dont know the guy personally but to make such a big move early in his career and then have that injury at such a pivotal time is hard for a player. Jose questioning him physically and tactically is fine but the guy needs some backing from a psychological perspective.

Consistently calling him out and highlighting him in public is doing no one any favours. I'd say at this stage he just needs out but I do think he'll have a very good career if he leaves us and get his head right

The_Kew_Tour

So last week he was genius by managing put himself to the attention rather then players

Last night he blames the players

Help me out here....

KH25

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

So last week he was genius by managing put himself to the attention rather then players

Last night he blames the players

Help me out here....

Take your pick really! Personally I think some of the players need a bit of a bollocking. We can criticise the tactics in some games (and rightfully so) but there comes a point where the players need to take some of the blame. Last night I saw very little drive and determination from a lot of them - Matic, McT, and Lukaku aside.

Bleating Lamb

Don’t post here often....have being a defender of Shaw’s since he joined the club (no pun intended).....but it seems that he is uncoachable......and hasn’t got a great ‘do or die attitude’.....
Club will make a huge loss financially offloading him but it’s not my money.
Valencia on the other side is in the Autumn of his career in Premiership whereas in likes of La Liga he could prob play another 3 or 4 years with slower pace of game there.

Bottom line we need to go into new season with two new full backs signed.Have said it before Fabinho would be my choice for rb as he can play DM excellently as well.Doubt we would get Sandro for LB but might be able to prise Davies or Rose from Spurs (only an example of possibilities...don’t rate Rose myself).....or a LB from abroad.
A midfielder to complement Matic and Pogba also to be signed....and a CB to partner Bailey....although Lindelof has definite prospects to improve as a player.
That coupled with an inform Sanchez wouldn’t be a bad squad going into next season.
PS-.....if De Gea goes to Madrid (which you couldn’t blame him doing tbf)
Romero is well capable of being No1 at Utd.Very assured in all areas of the GK game.

GSPfan

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

So last week he was genius by managing put himself to the attention rather then players

Last night he blames the players

Help me out here....

No help needed, you’re spot on. It’s bizarre. It looks like Jose as manager is saying he is doing things correctly but the players aren’t responding.

So is it a Summer clear out (which never happens at United) or is it a change of manager? I’m betting on neither happening and this continuing into next season.

Drumpot

GSPfan wrote: »

No help needed, you’re spot on. It’s bizarre. It looks like Jose as manager is saying he is doing things correctly but the players aren’t responding.

So is it a Summer clear out (which never happens at United) or is it a change of manager? I’m betting on neither happening and this continuing into next season.

I’m not really sure why people doubt Jose so much. We have on one side a coach who has won everything at multiple clubs, as big or smaller then united. He won the league only 3 season ago. And On the other we have players who have played poorly, underperformed at United and proven nothing concrete as a team.

I don’t get why people always assume the problem is the coach, he is the only person who has the proven pedigree to take united to success.... he knows what he is doing and he knows that footballing ability does not equate to being good enough to play for united. Surely demanding character and fight from players is what fans want to see? We don’t need to know why he is doing things the way he is, just trust that his experience warrants our support.

GSPfan

We’re becoming Arsenal. Our target is Champions League qualification and if we achieve that then there’s always next year. That seems to be the criteria for a manager to survive at United.

If I was confident Jose was going to get the backing to gut the squad I would be delighted with him calling out the players. But he won’t be given that backing as we’d need to spend about €300 million and United are awful in the transfer market so I’m expecting a frustrating future.

GSPfan

Drumpot wrote: »

I’m not really sure why people doubt Jose so much. We have on one side a coach who has won everything at multiple clubs, as big or smaller then united. He won the league only 3 season ago. And On the other we have players who have played poorly, underperformed at United and proven nothing concrete as a team.

I don’t get why people always assume the problem is the coach, he is the only person who has the proven pedigree to take united to success.... he knows what he is doing and he knows that footballing ability does not equate to being good enough to play for united. Surely demanding character and fight from players is what fans want to see? We don’t need to know why he is doing things the way he is, just trust that his experience warrants our support.

Looks like his speech the other day worked on you.

Discodog

GSPfan wrote: »

No help needed, you’re spot on. It’s bizarre. It looks like Jose as manager is saying he is doing things correctly but the players aren’t responding.

So is it a Summer clear out (which never happens at United) or is it a change of manager? I’m betting on neither happening and this continuing into next season.

I think it will be a clear out. People still talk about the mythical United Way but it depends on players giving 100%. No matter how skillful a player is if he doesn't want to give total effort then he's not worth having.

I fear that some players, maybe led on by their agents, are thinking about what happened at Chelsea. I think the Board will back Jose totally. I would prefer a clear out even if it means another year of establishing new players.

The problem seems to be that you can't assess the mind of a potential transfer target. Martial has bucket loads of skill but just seems not to want to put in the effort. Rom may be short on skill but he makes up for it with effort.

Drumpot

GSPfan wrote: »

We’re becoming Arsenal. Our target is Champions League qualification and if we achieve that then there’s always next year. That seems to be the criteria for a manager to survive at United.

If I was confident Jose was going to get the backing to gut the squad I would be delighted with him calling out the players. But he won’t be given that backing as we’d need to spend about €300 million and United are awful in the transfer market so I’m expecting a frustrating future.

Under LVG we were Arsenal. Under Jose the club is rising and even the owners see that.

Seriously people need to step back and see the progress of the team from when he took over. Nobody is saying the brand of football and quality of peformances is acceptable. But there are clear signs of improvement at the core of the team. It looks stronger on paper, in the league and is looking like it will not be all about just making it into the top 4 like it was for the last 4 seasons.

One good summer in the market and I think we see a much more confident , efficient team that’s extremely difficult to beat.

greendom

We've seen this behaviour from Mourinho before. Going on his past record a new manager is not far off

Drumpot

GSPfan wrote: »

Looks like his speech the other day worked on you.

I think reading between the lines allows me to stand back and see the bigger picture. People jumping on every word the manager says are just riding the hyperbolic waffle train that can follow united managers.

He says what he says for a reason. He says it because he feels it’s what’s needed for the team. Why he says it isn’t important for the fans to understand , it’s oy important that it has the desired effect on the team.

Like I said, he’s won everything in the game so I am confident that he knows what he is doing.