Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

Mitch Connor

yourdeadwright wrote: »

is it true Monaco get 50% of any deal over 60 million ?
If true surely then he will go for less,
Id love Livepool to buy him and rotate with Mane on the left but zero chance United sell to a Prem team let alone Liverpool

Apparently this summer is the first summer United can sell Martial without Monaco getting money from the sale.

yourdeadwright

jayo26 wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

is it true Monaco get 50% of any deal over 60 million ?
If true surely then he will go for less,
Id love Livepool to buy him and rotate with Mane on the left but zero chance United sell to a Prem team let alone Liverpool

No that was only true if United didn't win any cups.

We now have to pay them 200% of any transfer fee.

A quick google and you can see the contract as it was leaked at the time, it actually states if a transfer between 70 million and 90 million MUFC and Monaco shall  share 50% of the difference between 70m and 90 m  meaning, Monaco only get 10 m  ,
Between 90- 100million Monaco get 5 million
After 100 million Monaco get nothing ,

Lord TSC

Said it before, if Jose thinks he can sell of of the three LW players and bring in a proper RW for the same price, I don't think he'll hesitate.

yourdeadwright

Mitch Connor wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

is it true Monaco get 50% of any deal over 60 million ?
If true surely then he will go for less,
Id love Livepool to buy him and rotate with Mane on the left but zero chance United sell to a Prem team let alone Liverpool

Apparently this summer is the first summer United can sell Martial without Monaco getting money from the sale.

It looks from reading it that would be the case after this summer window not during it ,

PhlegmyMoses

Lord TSC wrote: »

Said it before, if Jose thinks he can sell of of the three LW players and bring in a proper RW for the same price, I don't think he'll hesitate.

If I was one of Martial or Rashford I'd be eying that right hand side and seeing what I would need to do to adapt. They are still young footballers who haven't fully honed their craft. They aren't settled into any position either.

Lord TSC

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

If I was one of Martial or Rashford I'd be eying that right hand side and seeing what I would need to do to adapt. They are still young footballers who haven't fully honed their craft. They aren't settled into any position either.

Both have had games there afaik, and both have been very poor in the process.

yourdeadwright

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Lord TSC wrote: »

Said it before, if Jose thinks he can sell of of the three LW players and bring in a proper RW for the same price, I don't think he'll hesitate.

If I was one of Martial or Rashford I'd be eying that right hand side and seeing what I would need to do to adapt. They are still young footballers who haven't fully honed their craft. They aren't settled into any position either.

I'm sure both would no problem but its hard to do this without getting the chance in games, Both seem like good pro's ,

PhlegmyMoses

Lord TSC wrote: »

Both have had games there afaik, and both have been very poor in the process.

For sure but there are things that they can do. Improving their bad foot would be a start. Don't be a Tony V. Nobody likes a Tony V.

yourdeadwright

yourdeadwright wrote: »

If Pep has failed what has Jose done succeed ,
They finished 15 points behind the Champion's last season and will probably win it by 10 or more , So that's at very least a 25 point turn around ye Pep is a failure ,
Only one team will win the champions league so is every other manger a failure ?

From my post you quoted; "City have been great this season, but Pep has completely failed on the European front so far."

I wasn't talking about City's performance in the league, or about Jose v Pep (I thought it would have been obvious though that Jose has failed badly in Europe this season). I merely explained why a CL quarter final exit for City to a team 18 points below them in the PL (18 then, 17 now) would be a disappointment in terms of what the City owners essentially brought Pep in for.

I don't and haven't denied that Pep's City have been great in the Premier League this season, so you outlining their league turnaround between this season and last season, plus the smiley face, is completely irrelevant to any point I was making. You did this to try and prove me wrong that Pep was a failure, but I was not talking about the PL and made it quite clear that I was talking about Europe and why I was.

Also, suggesting that someone has 'completely failed' in one thing, the words I said, is not the same thing at all as saying that person is a failure outright. Never said Pep is a failure at City this season, as that would be insane, and deliberately or not you are twisting my words there.

"Only one team will win the champions league so is every other manger a failure ?"

Never said that either or suggested it, at all. I explained in the post you quoted why the context and pressure in Europe is different at this stage of the City project. Pep won't have completely failed because he didn't win it, but because (as it's looking right now) he didn't come close to it and as it stands, the manner of the potential exit will not be good. Add that to a last 16 exit in the previous campaign and it won't be a glowing record for Pep's City in Europe so far. It will be similar to that of his City predecessors, Mancini and Pellegrini.

Your own team's biggest European night in 10+ years coming up this evening, and here you are digging up 5 day old posts and misrepresenting and/or misunderstanding them. I just don't see the point.

yourdeadwright

Deleted User wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

If Pep has failed what has Jose done succeed ,
They finished 15 points behind the Champion's last season and will probably win it by 10 or more , So that's at very least a 25 point turn around ye Pep is a failure ,
Only one team will win the champions league so is every other manger a failure ?

From my post you quoted; "City have been great this season, but Pep has completely failed on the European front so far."

I wasn't talking about City's performance in the league, or about Jose v Pep (I thought it would have been obvious though that Jose has failed badly in Europe this season). I merely explained why a CL quarter final exit for City to a team 18 points below them in the PL (18 then, 17 now) would be a disappointment in terms of what the City owners essentially brought Pep in for.

I don't and haven't denied that Pep's City have been great in the Premier League this season, so you outlining their league turnaround between this season and last season, plus the smiley face, is completely irrelevant to any point I was making. You did this to try and prove me wrong that Pep was a failure, but I was not talking about the PL and made it quite clear that I was talking about Europe and why I was.

Also, suggesting that someone has 'completely failed' in one thing, the words I said, is not the same thing at all as saying that person is a failure outright. Never said Pep is a failure at City this season, as that would be insane, and deliberately or not you are twisting my words there.

"Only one team will win the champions league so is every other manger a failure ?"

Never said that either or suggested it, at all. I explained in the post you quoted why the context and pressure in Europe is different at this stage of the City project. Pep won't have completely failed because he didn't win it, but because (as it's looking right now) he didn't come close to it and as it stands, the manner of the potential exit will not be good. Add that to a last 16 exit in the previous campaign and it won't be a glowing record for Pep's City in Europe so far. It will be similar to that of his City predecessors, Mancini and Pellegrini.

Your own team's biggest European night in 10+ years coming up this evening, and here you are digging up 5 day old posts and misrepresenting and/or misunderstanding them. I just don't see the point.

Your point is totally irrelevant as City are not out of the champions league
So to say they failed in Europe so far is nonsense,
They have been brilliant bar one game, which is only at half time  ,
So don't write off the best coach in England till at least about 2130hrs tonight,
Its your own manger who spoke bout football Heritage something City have zero off in Europe,
So I'm guessing its ok for Jose to get knocked out v Sevilla but a failure for Pep to go out at a later stage with a club with less "football heritage"

Mitch Connor

yourdeadwright wrote: »

So I'm guessing its ok for Jose to get knocked out v Sevilla but a failure for Pep to go out at a later stage with a club with less "football heritage"

You've not read a single post on the subject since the seville game, if that is the argument you are coming with.

Jose and United failed FCUKING HARD in that Seville tie

yourdeadwright

Also you speak of City disappointment of going out to a team 18pionts behind them ,
United went out to a team 33 points of the pace in Spain (Barca in 1st have less point's than City)  and lying in 7th in the league (which is weaker than the Prem) and could go down to 9th this weekend if they lose
And as of now City are very much still in the competition ,

jayo26

Mitch Connor wrote: »

You've not read a single post on the subject since the seville game, if that is the argument you are coming with.

Jose and United failed FCUKING HARD in that Seville tie

He didn't read any but it probably wasn't his fault.

Headshot

id be absolutely gutted if Marital left

The guy has such talent, could be a world class player some day.

jayo26

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Also you speak of City disappointment of going out to a team 18pionts behind them ,
United went out to a team 33 points of the pace in Spain (Barca in 1st have less point's than City)  and lying in 7th in the league (which is weaker than the Prem) and could go down to 9th this weekend if they lose
And as of now City are very much still in the competition ,

Are you trying to convince yourself or something? United failure In europe has been been well argued over this thread since the seville game don't think you need to convince anyone else.

Will I Am Not

“yeah but what about United/Jose”

Don’t you just hate people that use that line of arguing when you make a point about another team or manager?

yourdeadwright

Just cause you lose a game does not make you a failure ,
City are still in the champions league yet, They have scored 3 or more goals on 20 occasions this season but people think Pep's been a failure in Europe at half time in a game,
Jesus of all people after the weekend you lot should know losing at half time does not me the tie is over,
Also even if City go out tonight it doesn't mean Pep is a failure, 
Why does it have to be all or nothing ?

yourdeadwright

Will I Am Not wrote: »

“yeah but what about United/Jose”

Don’t you just hate people that use that line of arguing when you make a point about another team or manager?

Say's your man when the conversation earlier was about Rashord and Mbappe says but Depay scored more ,

yourdeadwright

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Your point is totally irrelevant as City are not out of the champions league
So to say they failed in Europe so far is nonsense,
They have been brilliant bar one game, which is only at half time ,
So don't write off the best coach in England till at least about 2130hrs tonight,
Its your own manger who spoke bout football Heritage something City have zero off in Europe,
So I'm guessing its ok for Jose to get knocked out v Sevilla but a failure for Pep to go out at a later stage with a club with less "football heritage"

Again, your missing points and just reacting to what you think I'm saying. Never mind stooping into pure whataboutery. What about Jose? Seriously...I can't criticise another manager without acknowledging Jose's failings in the same post? That makes no sense.

I've been acknowledging Jose's failings, European and otherwise, for about 2 months now in here. Plus, and most importantly, the post you quoted was challenging bangkok's opinion about Pep's season, not Jose's. That's why my post was discussing Pep and not Jose.

Again, the neutrals with 'But what about Jose?' even when it's not their own team's manager getting criticised...almost a week ago.

If it's irrelevant because City aren't out of the CL yet, then why on earth are you bringing it up from 5 days ago? Anyway, I said 'if City go out' and 'as it looks now', another thing you miss/choose to ignore.

'So don't write off the best coach in England'...Ah jaysus, are you his Ma?

yourdeadwright

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Also you speak of City disappointment of going out to a team 18pionts behind them ,
United went out to a team 33 points of the pace in Spain (Barca in 1st have less point's than City) and lying in 7th in the league (which is weaker than the Prem) and could go down to 9th this weekend if they lose
And as of now City are very much still in the competition ,

You're out of your element now and have just moved the goalposts to fúcking Mars. I'm now done with wasting my time and clogging up the thread with this.

yourdeadwright

Deleted User wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Also you speak of City disappointment of going out to a team 18pionts behind them ,
United went out to a team 33 points of the pace in Spain (Barca in 1st have less point's than City)  and lying in 7th in the league (which is weaker than the Prem) and could go down to 9th this weekend if they lose
And as of now City are very much still in the competition ,

You're out of your element now and have just moved the goalposts to fúcking Mars. I'm now done with wasting my time and clogging up the thread with this.

And what's my element ? 
Your talking nonsense about a coach being a failure who is still in the competition , Trying to back it up by saying I said  "IF" they go out, So what IF they win 5-0 nil tonight does that make your whole post irrelevant ,
There is a weird cult about (mostly United fans) that if Pep doesn't win every single trophy available he is a failure , There's no middle ground its hilarious
He is the best coach in England ,So much so no one would be surprised if they the job done tonight

brinty

jesus I'm absolutely out on this thread.. christ be with the days where there was a bit of decent banter and chat..

Everything these days seems to be a circular argument by a few and every couple of days its back to the start..

There's a lot of great posters on here who i enjoy reading who don't follow the popular opinion and will argue their points well and see a counter point in other peoples posts. They'll back up their opinions. Some of them seem to have disappeared in recent times and i understand why..

Then there's other who come in drag everything down, when questioned shift the goal posts and don't answer anything at all but keep on going with something else.. those people seem to have taken over and made this a very unenjoyable thread..

I think I'm out at this stage

yourdeadwright

yourdeadwright wrote: »

And what's my element ?
Your talking nonsense about a coach being a failure who is still in the competition , Trying to back it up by saying I said "IF" they go out, So what IF they win 5-0 nil tonight does that make your whole post irrelevant ,
There is a weird cult about (mostly United fans) that if Pep doesn't win every single trophy available he is a failure , There's no middle ground its hilarious
He is the best coach in England ,So much so no one would be surprised if they the job done tonight

Never said he was a failure, you're deluded.

yourdeadwright

Deleted User wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

And what's my element ?
Your talking nonsense about a coach being a failure who is still in the competition , Trying to back it up by saying I said  "IF" they go out, So what IF they win 5-0 nil tonight does that make your whole post irrelevant ,
There is a weird cult about (mostly United fans) that if Pep doesn't win every single trophy available he is a failure , There's no middle ground its hilarious
He is the best coach in England ,So much so no one would be surprised if they the job done tonight

Never said he was a failure, you're deluded.

Today on here iv learned Pep is a fraud and Rashford is as good as Mbappe ,
Never change lads peace out

PhlegmyMoses

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Today on here iv learned Pep is a fraud and Rashford is as good as Mbappe ,
Never change lads peace out

That isn't what you've learned at all. Reductive arguments are the final foray of a scoundrel.

jayo26

upload img

Ninthlife

I joined this forum as being a United fan I wanted to discuss performances, transfers, progression of the team etc. I thought id find links to United bssed news or twitter/instagram pics all in one essy place sadly its not as the thread title states.

Petty arguments of a my Da will beat your Da type mentality ad nauseum.

I dont care about Pep, i dont care about Salah, i dont care about Pochetinno. If i want to know how great they are il go to their respctive fan forums .

Mitch Connor

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Today on here iv learned Pep is a fraud and Rashford is as good as Mbappe ,
Never change lads peace out

FFS.

If thats how you want to read the arguments from today, then g'luck. hope to never chat again.

As for something on topic...

Martial has enormous potential, but it soon will be three full seasons of it at the club without the definitive leap up to that next level of consistent performance. He started this season quite well and promising, but went off the boil in his appearances later on.

Ideally he's worth a shot for one more season, but I can see the sense in him leaving this Summer. With Sanchez in, there is a lot of of attacking talent on the roster to try to keep happy with regular football.

I like Martial and think he will be a consistently good player for one of the top teams someday, but if he actually wants to leave this Summer then good luck to him.

I had a look at the total appearances for all United players this season when that 'Rashford Disillusioned' story came out last night. This table is from before the derby...



Both Martial and Rashford have gotten a fair amount of game-time this season. Of course their ambition will have them aiming for regular first-team football, but they are both still young, developing and mostly too inconsistent for that.

Mitch Connor

Ninthlife wrote: »

I joined this forum as being a United fan I wanted to discuss performances, transfers, progression of the team etc. I thought id find links to United bssed news or twitter/instagram pics all in one essy place sadly its not as the thread title states.

Petty arguments of a my Da will beat your Da type mentality ad nauseum.

I dont care about Pep, i dont care about Salah, i dont care about Pochetinno. If i want to know how geat they are il go to their respctive fan forums .

Thats no way to talk about United's next manager, tbh. :P

TheDoc

Anthony Martial leaving the club is a borderline disgrace if it is allowed to happen.

I knew we would have a situation with him or Rashford looking to move, did not expect it this quickly.

I'll tell you from where I sit, Sanchez would want to work out beyond measurement or belief, because thus far, and I'd say ultimately, his signing is not worth losing Martial from the club.

Will I Am Not

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Say's your man when the conversation earlier was about Rashord and Mbappe says but Depay scored more ,

It was totally relevant to the points you were making.

I don’t believe you’re here to discuss anything rationally. You come in, talk sh*t and then throw in something nice about Ronaldo to leave the door open for next time.
I doubt anybody here is buying what you’re selling.

Ninthlife

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Thats no way to talk about United's next manager, tbh. :P

Salah managing United ? What are the odds

Mitch Connor

Deleted User wrote: »

As for something on topic...

Martial has enormous potential, but it soon will be three full seasons of it at the club without the definitive leap up to that next level of consistent performance. He started this season quite well and promising, but went off the boil in his appearances later on.

Ideally he's worth a shot for one more season, but I can see the sense in him leaving this Summer. With Sanchez in, there is a lot of of attacking talent on the roster to try to keep happy with regular football.

I like Martial and think he will be a consistently good player for one of the top teams someday, but if he actually wants to leave this Summer then good luck to him.

I had a look at the total appearances for all United players this season when that 'Rashford Disillusioned' story came out last night. This table is from before the derby...



Both Martial and Rashford have gotten a fair amount of game-time this season. Of course their ambition will have them aiming for regular first-team football, but they are both still young, developing and mostly too inconsistent for that.

I think part of the issue is that neither have really got a consistent run in the side - it has been firstly in/out for each other, since Sanchez came most out for him. Unlike Lukaku or Sanchez, they've not been shown time and faith by Jose in their runs either - one bad performance sees them immediately benched. Even good performances don't keep them in the team. Rashford doing brilliant vs Liverpool, poor against Seville - benched for the next three games.

Obviously you can also say that neither has made themselves ondroppable, which is also fair.

you can also say that the wide role they play is more left midfield than left forward (as Mbappe or Neymar may play for example) which contributes to less than stellar impacts - cause they are forward playing in midfield, not midfielders playing in midfield.

Jose isn't developing either as top forwards.

pjohnson

Can we discuss Pogba's hair again? Its not actually the stupidest line of discussion this week after all.

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

Anthony Martial leaving the club is a borderline disgrace if it is allowed to happen.

I knew we would have a situation with him or Rashford looking to move, did not expect it this quickly.

I'll tell you from where I sit, Sanchez would want to work out beyond measurement or belief, because thus far, and I'd say ultimately, his signing is not worth losing Martial from the club.

I understand that. Ideally we wouldn't be losing Martial or Rashford for at least another few seasons. As you said though, we knew it would be a situation even if might happen sooner than we hoped.

As for Sanchez, I really think it is still early days but if he can produce performances like in the derby semi-regularly, I think we're onto a very good thing in the short to medium term which is what the club badly need. 2 assists plus the peach of a pass to Herrera for the other assist. None of them flukes, all precision-aimed and executed.

I'd like to think the 'Martial wants to leave story' is gobobbles, but apparently the source is very good.

Mitch Connor

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think part of the issue is that neither have really got a consistent run in the side - it has been firstly in/out for each other, since Sanchez came most out for him. Unlike Lukaku or Sanchez, they've not been shown time and faith by Jose in their runs either - one bad performance sees them immediately benched. Even good performances don't keep them in the team. Rashford doing brilliant vs Liverpool, poor against Seville - benched for the next three games.

Obviously you can also say that neither has made themselves ondroppable, which is also fair.

you can also say that the wide role they play is more left midfield than left forward (as Mbappe or Neymar may play for example) which contributes to less than stellar impacts - cause they are forward playing in midfield, not midfielders playing in midfield.

Jose isn't developing either as top forwards.

All good points and fair consolations to Martial and Rashford.

The bar to impress does seem to be set higher for them than Sanchez and Lukaku. Or even Mkhi when he was tripping around the place and still getting plenty of chances to improve his game.

On another note, look at those Lukaku numbers. And he still has a World Cup to play :eek:

TheDoc

Deleted User wrote: »

I understand that. Ideally we wouldn't be losing Martial or Rashford for at least another few seasons. As you said though, we knew it would be a situation even if might happen sooner than we hoped.

As for Sanchez, I really think it is still early days but if he can produce performances like in the derby semi-regularly, I think we're onto a very good thing in the short to medium term which is what the club badly need. 2 assists plus the peach of a pass to Herrera for the other assist. None of them flukes, all precision-aimed and executed.

I'd like to think the 'Martial wants to leave story' is gobobbles, but apparently the source is very good.

Joses squad management has been horrible since he arrived. Ran Zlatan into the ground and doing the same this season to Lukaku.

Rashford and Martial have designs on playing up front, they can play up front and it provides us a different dynamic and style when we do, but he just never rotates or rests. Shunting Martial out wide right to accommodate Sanchez, when Martial was looking to have hit form was a woeful decision

Ugh. I need to relax and see how this pans out, but losing Martial is not going to do anything for me but give me another stick to beat Jose with.

Lord TSC

TheDoc wrote: »

Ugh. I need to relax and see how this pans out, but losing Martial is not going to do anything for me but give me another stick to beat Jose with.

Martial or not, the bar next season is going to be at least a proper title challange. Not 13 points behind but a proper run at it.

Be that with Martial or not, that's going to be the stick to beat him with. At the same time, I can say with hand on heart that a failure to achieve that goal next season will not be because we sold or kept Martial, but will be based on who comes in to cover the glaring weaknesses, and on if Jose can avoid the fabled "third season" nonsense.

bangkok

if you asked around europe to name the top 10 best young players playing in europe right now, Martial would be on that list, be madness to sell him imo

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

Martial or not, the bar next season is going to be at least a proper title challange. Not 13 points behind but a proper run at it.

Be that with Martial or not, that's going to be the stick to beat him with. At the same time, I can say with hand on heart that a failure to achieve that goal next season will not be because we sold or kept Martial, but will be based on who comes in to cover the glaring weaknesses, and on if Jose can avoid the fabled "third season" nonsense.

If Sanchez goes full beast mode and helps us win the title, or challenge close, and achieve goals or targets (within mitigating circumstances) then yeah that will need to viewed at the time with how the season progresses.

But it wont be as simple as target achieved or not.

The factors attributing to those high level summaries may lead back to Sanchez continuing to be poor, Rashford having another indifferent up and down season, a replacement not performing, Martial going beast mode somewhere else.

Sure, if we like, win or go close to a title we likely won't be sitting here crying over Martial leaving, unless the LW has been a problem area, glaringly throughout the season.

I just don't want to see Martial coming back to haunt us.

But like I said, I'm best waiting to see what happens come the summer.

S.M.B.

If Martial doesn't want to sign a new contract then he should probably be sold. Not much point nurturing a talent that's not quite reached it's peak for him to then head off for next to nothing 18 months down the line.

It's a shame to lose such a talent but he simply hasn't done enough to hold down a first team spot.

He's probably not going to make the French WC squad which he can't be happy about which will lead to him reassessing his situation over the summer if so.

StringerBell

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Today on here iv learned Pep is a fraud and Rashford is as good as Mbappe ,
Never change lads peace out

Such a shame you didn't learn to read posts you were responding to while you were here. An opportunity missed for sure.

Live long and prosper young Padawan, make sure you close that door properly please, gets awful draughty in the evenings

Nalz

StringerBell wrote: »

Such a shame you didn't learn to read posts you were responding to while you were here. An opportunity missed for sure.

Live long and prosper young Padawan, make sure you close that door properly please, gets awful draughty in the evenings

Have a cherry cola ice pop!

Its like the papers know which players to target that say they want out which would annoy the fans the most, not much Jones, Smalling, Lingard want out although I have to admit the Fellaini to Liverpool story is a great piece of outside the box click bait.

Not saying none of the players want to leave mind and the Martial stuff looks more solid tbf.

S.M.B.

RE: Rashford. I'm probably forgetting some obvious ones but I can't think of too many examples of top tier PL players who have developed via the route that Rashford will have to take if he stays at United.

Not quite sure if there's any cause/effect at play here though.

I guess Rashford's freakish start to his career makes him quite a unique case but I do find it odd that there's no long list of predecessors to look back on.

Probably me just looking back at the early careers of certain players with rose tinted glasses though.

Turtwig

Imo you cannot let Maritial leave until you get in a player of better quality to replace him.

S.M.B.

Turtwig wrote: »

Imo you cannot let Maritial leave until you get in a player of better quality to replace him.

You could argue that Sanchez is that player.

Not sure what the stats say but I'd imagine Martial has accumulated f*ck all minutes on the left since Sanchez joined.

jayo26

Honestly can't see either one of them leaving I think mata will be the first to go and martial cover his spot because Rashford is straight out crap on right.

Edit: saying that I can't see mata going either that would leave 5 players to cover 3 spots.

GSPfan

Martial to Bayern to replace one of Robben and Ribery who are both gone in the Summer. That’d be a super move for him.