Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

Rayne Wooney

Even if Mourinho doesn’t work out Id much rather give him another year to chuck out the players who aren’t good enough, it would be a massive let off for this group of players to just change manager because we won’t improve. The new manager will do exactly what Mourinho will, buy new players, because we still won’t be any better than a 3rd/2nd place team with this squad.

Martial, Pogba, Lingard, Mata, Herrera, Shaw and a couple of others can’t be safe going into next season with the performances they have put in. We need to decide if we are in the business to win league titles or constantly give underperforming players chance after chance.

DM_7

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Even if Mourinho doesn’t work out Id much rather give him another year to chuck out the players who aren’t good enough, it would be a massive let off for this group of players to just change manager because we won’t improve. The new manager will do exactly what Mourinho will, buy new players, because we still won’t be any better than a 3rd/2nd place team with this squad.

Martial, Pogba, Lingard, Mata, Herrera, Shaw and a couple of others can’t be safe going into next season with the performances they have put in. We need to decide if we are in the business to win league titles or constantly give underperforming players chance after chance.

I would not fullt agree with all the names listed but I agree with the point. You would also have a manager coming in without a fully formed idea of what the existing players are up to.

Discodog

One advantage of Jose appearing to be the demon is that other managers will think they can get more from the player & encourage bids.

Calling a substitution brutal is pathetic. Contrary to all the predictions Jose has played & encouraged young players. Everyone has had their chance to show their dedication. I would much rather have players, of a lesser ability but with a will to win than a skillful shrinking violet or primadonna .

limnam

Discodog wrote: »

I would much rather have players, of a lesser ability but with a will to win than a skillful shrinking violet or primadonna .

We've had loads of them.

Roy Keane possibly been a perfect example

Adamcp898

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Even if Mourinho doesn’t work out Id much rather give him another year to chuck out the players who aren’t good enough, it would be a massive let off for this group of players to just change manager because we won’t improve. The new manager will do exactly what Mourinho will, buy new players, because we still won’t be any better than a 3rd/2nd place team with this squad.

Martial, Pogba, Lingard, Mata, Herrera, Shaw and a couple of others can’t be safe going into next season with the performances they have put in. We need to decide if we are in the business to win league titles or constantly give underperforming players chance after chance.

How you can chuck Mata in there I don't know.

limnam

Adamcp898 wrote: »

How you can chuck Mata in there I don't know.

Mata has put in many a poor performance.

Especially when the performance demanded him to be strong defensively.

While I like Mata he's been as inconsistent as many of them

Adamcp898

limnam wrote: »

Mata has put in many a poor performance.

Especially when the performance demanded him to be strong defensively.

While I like Mata he's been as inconsistent as many of them

Funny I'd put him as arguably our most consistent attacking player all year. Gets a bit of a raw deal with the push to start with all the pacy wide players, particularly in the first half of the season, but every time he does get to play he's better than them. Palace and Liverpool games alone showed that.

Lord TSC

Mata will have one amazing game, followed by 5 where he's invisible. The joys of being invisible though is it's harder to notice (as opposed to Pogba and Sanchez who, when having a poor game, are very obviously still trying to get involved, create stuff, etc), and everyone just remembers the game where he was "class", resorting to cliche, rather than being able to point to games he massively controlled.

I love Mata as a person, but he just is so prone to disappearing acts.

StringerBell

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

So last week he was genius by managing put himself to the attention rather then players

Last night he blames the players

Help me out here....

One game we lost and went out of a cup, one game we won and progressed in a cup.

Not sure why you need someone to explain to you why different scenarios would require or allow different approaches...

Adamcp898

Lord TSC wrote: »

Mata will have one amazing game, followed by 5 where he's invisible. The joys of being invisible though is it's harder to notice (as opposed to Pogba and Sanchez who, when having a poor game, are very obviously still trying to get involved, create stuff, etc), and everyone just remembers the game where he was "class", resorting to cliche, rather than being able to point to games he massively controlled.

I love Mata as a person, but he just is so prone to disappearing acts.

Not really arsed getting into a protracted debate but I'd disagree with all of that. I think a lot of people see his name on a TV graphic appearing as a wide forward player and then judge his performance in that context based on how well he executes their idea of that role, painfully ignoring the proceeding 90 minutes where it was never intended for him to play it. Hence the resulting pining for Rashford/Martial/Sanchez.

Maybe some people need a player to be constantly on the ball or some such in order for them not to be "invisible" and be able to judge their performance I don't know but to say he's prone to disappearing is a bit much. Taking last night as an example, much of his role in the game was always going to be tied to how well we move the ball, particularly through midfield, and to that end it was obvious how much he was trying to coax and direct Lingard to where he should be picking the ball up off Matic/McTominay. At one stage I thought he was going to reach for him and drag him into position but when we don't have a single player in the middle of the pitch who can do that then it makes it even more difficult to operate in the inside forward channels because there is literally noone in the team to give you the ball.

beno619

Lord TSC wrote: »

Mata will have one amazing game, followed by 5 where he's invisible.

I prefer Mata's version of being invisible to Pogba's, at least he plays for the team and not himself.

Sorry but comparing him to Pogba will only ever highlight Pogba's glaring shortcomings as a United player.

Schwanz

Pogba has been a disaster.

A man we gave away for free and paid through the roof for is now a thoroughbred donkey.

If we can get 50m for him in the summer its a great deal.

Drumpot

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

By the same logic, the manager doesn't deserve anybody's defence.

I don't blame Jose necessarily. But some of the things he comes out with in press conferences is misguided and not particularly helpful.

The managers record speaks for itself. The squads doesnt... The manager has a proven pedigree of getting teams to challange for top honors. Nobody knows exactly what the problem is with this squad or why players aren’t performing so we actually don’t know if they are good enough to challange for top honors, we presume it because of their performances for other clubs. But maybe Jose knows what it takes to be not just a great footballer, but a footballer who has character when the chips are down.

Maybe he knows the most successful teams have a Codd group of players who can win or perform even when they aren’t playing good. Players who don’t rely on the rest of the team playing well for them o perform well. (Chelsea’s William comes to mind).

People saying Jose is finished have actually no reasonable indicator that points to him being past it. At his last club he won the premier league. At the club before that he overthrew a Pep team that was considered by many to be the greatest team Of all time. You know, the team that beat united twice in a champions league final?!

Cantona's Collars

Schwanz wrote: »

Pogba has been a disaster.

A man we gave away for free and paid through the roof for is now a thoroughbred donkey.

If we can get 50m for him in the summer its a great deal.

It's the Mirror but they are saying Raiola is sounding out new clubs for Pogba. They are also saying Pogba wants to sort any issues with Jose but his agent isn't happy with his prize asset being dropped.

Drumpot

Schwanz wrote: »

Pogba has been a disaster.

A man we gave away for free and paid through the roof for is now a thoroughbred donkey.

If we can get 50m for him in the summer its a great deal.

Of course we all like Mata. He cost a fraction of the money and has played well during one of the clubs toughest periods during the last 30 years.

But in defense of Pogba, he was a world record signing so we demand more from him. There is definitely more presssure on the lad. Also, Pogba came from a very organized , strong, confident , experienced team and has joined a very disjointed squad.

If Mata has a bad game nobody cares. If Pogba has a bad game it divides opinion between manager and player , both actually resulting in more pressure on the player. Let’s just imagine it is a case that Pogba is genuinely just struggling to adapt to the team, the expectations on his shoulders and he is actually working with Jose to fix it. And then everybody’s arguing about it being Jose’s fault or Pogba doesn’t care etc!

Trigger

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

It's the Mirror but they are saying Raiola is sounding out new clubs for Pogba. They are also saying Pogba wants to sort any issues with Jose but his agent isn't happy with his prize asset being dropped.

The agent works for Pogba not the other way around. The sensationalists always seem to forget that point.

Actually just seen that it wasn’t even by McDonnell who is the Mirrors United correspondent

Rayne Wooney

Mata is a top guy and can’t be faulted for effort but he is 30 next month and realistically his peak years were around 25.

Again, if we aiming to win league titles Mata in his current form will not get us there, he doesn’t need to be sold but we need somebody better and unfortunately that is a comment fitting a lot of players in this team so some will need to go.

Martial is another tricky one, he is only 22 but his performances are not good enough. He will feel he needs games to improve but are we able to accommodate him in the team most weeks if we want to win trophies?

This is the reality that people who want Jose gone need to face, I'm betting a new manager won’t improve the consistency of these players so we will be exactly where we are now, we have a squad that reflects our league position for me, Jose is doing a good job all things considered.

One of the main issues now is Pogba, what do we do with him? Not good enough to build a team around him at 10 and can’t play in a midfield 2. Honestly I’d send him off to Madrid if we could get what we paid, he would do okay there in a poor league surrounded by world class players, he just can’t be relied on.


........Matic McTom......
Sanchez Pogba Martial
.............Lukaku............

Is this front 6 good enough to win a league next season? Definitely not for me.

StringerBell

A front 6 of

X.....matic.....pogba
Sanchez...lukaku....martial

Is actually good enough to win the league id think but that x is very important to the equation.

The full backs are actually also incredibly important to the equation too tbf

Andrew Beef

I don’t believe that Pogba is the answer. I also worry about Martial’s consistency. If the next couple of seasons are to be successful, Juan Mata and Marcus Rashford need to be front and centre.

jayo26

Andrew Beef wrote: »

I don’t believe that Pogba is the answer. I also worry about Martial’s consistency. If the next couple of seasons are to be successful, Juan Mata and Marcus Rashford need to be front and centre.

Mata wont be around for long more he is 30 years of age next month and not setting the world alight with performances.

Andrew Beef

jayo26 wrote: »

Andrew Beef wrote: »

I don’t believe that Pogba is the answer. I also worry about Martial’s consistency. If the next couple of seasons are to be successful, Juan Mata and Marcus Rashford need to be front and centre.

Mata wont be around for long more he is 30 years of age next month and not setting the world alight with performances.

That’s reminiscent of the reporting around the Alexis Sanchez transfer; Mata is 29 and he never had any pace to begin with, so he has plenty of years left at the highest level.

bangkok

mata has been one of our most consistent players this season. i would have him in the starting 11 every week, the only player we have who is actually good at keeping possession

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

mata has been one of our most consistent players this season. i would have him in the starting 11 every week, the only player we have who is actually good at keeping possession

Yes but he hasn't been consistently at a high level. He has been average few moments of magic but not enough.

s8n

Schwanz wrote: »

Pogba has been a disaster.

A man we gave away for free and paid through the roof for is now a thoroughbred donkey.

If we can get 50m for him in the summer its a great deal.

Wow !

BenK

If United were to sell Pogba in the summer (I don't think they should), I'm confident they would easily make back the money they paid for him.

jayo26

Pogba won't be going anywhere most fans that have been critical of pogba lately myself included know he is a very good player and will be back.

Liam McPoyle

A lot of these players have been involved in 2 previously failed regimes.

The buck has to stop with them at some point.

GSPfan

So if we take the opinion of posters today on which players need to be moved on....

Smalling
Jones
Bailly
Lindelof
Shaw
Mata
Pogba
Martial

Add them to the players who are certain or almost certain to leave....

Carrick
Fellaini
Blind
Darmian

That’s some clear out especially when you add in players who need to be replaced because of age, as in Valencia and Young. Then what about the possibility of De Gea being sold?

We are goosed.

Lord TSC

BenK wrote: »

If United were to sell Pogba in the summer (I don't think they should), I'm confident they would easily make back the money they paid for him.

We'd make a profit tbh. There'd be bigger teams than us lining up for him...

StringerBell

Did any poster actually say that those 12 players should go?

Cuz of place a large bet without even checking the a consensus of posters did not say those 12 players should be gone in the summer

Drumpot

Lord TSC wrote: »

We'd make a profit tbh. There'd be bigger teams than us lining up for him...

Particularly with the World Cup coming up. Players under performing At united have a chance to play in a less presssured environment l.

Business Cat

Business Cat wrote: »

A lot of these players have been involved in 2 previously failed regimes.

The buck has to stop with them at some point.

I understand the sentiment, but is it not a bit flawed considering how low we rate those previous two managers?

Lord TSC

Simon Stone of the BBC saying Shaw has decided he wants to leave following the comments by Jose.

BenK

Lord TSC wrote: »

Simon Stone of the BBC saying Shaw has decided he wants to leave following the comments by Jose.

Can't say I'd miss him too much really if he does go. Just hasn't worked out.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

Simon Stone of the BBC saying Shaw has decided he wants to leave following the comments by Jose.

wouldnt blame him, surprised he didnt want to leave after jose comments about using jose's brain for shaws body

Drumpot

Lord TSC wrote: »

Simon Stone of the BBC saying Shaw has decided he wants to leave following the comments by Jose.

Shame really cause I think Shaw has the talent to be an exceptional player. It can be the case that sometimes a player needs to move to full fill their potential.

Discodog

Lord TSC wrote: »

Simon Stone of the BBC saying Shaw has decided he wants to leave following the comments by Jose.

Says it all if he wants to leave rather than fight for his place. Jose won't stand in his way.

StringerBell

Lord TSC wrote: »

Simon Stone of the BBC saying Shaw has decided he wants to leave following the comments by Jose.

Ha! I'd say he has "decided" he will be on his way alright. And 100% his decision I'm betting

Go on luke! You can't fire me, I quit!!

Lord TSC

Drumpot wrote: »

Shame really cause I think Shaw has the talent to be an exceptional player. It can be the case that sometimes a player needs to move to full fill their potential.

Four managers, including the beloved Poch, have questioned his professionalism. At some stage, you have to stop blaming every manager he has and start pointing at him

GSPfan

StringerBell wrote: »

Did any poster actually say that those 12 players should go?

Cuz of place a large bet without even checking the a consensus of posters did not say those 12 players should be gone in the summer

You are correct on both counts. No one poster said all 12 should go and the consensus of posters wouldn’t want all 12 gone.

Did someone say otherwise?

Drumpot

Lord TSC wrote: »

Four managers, including the beloved Poch, have questioned his professionalism. At some stage, you have to stop blaming every manager he has and start pointing at him

I agree with you. I just think he could of been great, shows the fine line between having potential and fulfilling it. Maybe he needs to be at a club like Liverpool where you can be an inconsistent defender , the defense can capitulate and you can still be a starter.

bangkok

Scholes on shaw

"I couldn't see a difference between him and Young," Scholes said on BT Sport

"I think sometimes, managers get in their head that there's a player not for them. For me, he could be brilliant and still his manager will still find something wrong with him. It is disappointing because when Luke Shaw came you thought, 'what a left-back this is, he could be the best'. I still believe he could be the best in the world and in the summer he could go to Tottenham or somewhere and he will improve."

Alf Veedersane

Discodog wrote: »

Says it all if he wants to leave rather than fight for his place. Jose won't stand in his way.

It's obviously been made pretty clear that he can fight all he likes, Jose won't be picking him regularly.

He has the talent but obviously lacks the application.

pjohnson

GSPfan wrote: »

So if we take the opinion of posters today on which players need to be moved on....

Smalling
Jones
Bailly
Lindelof
Shaw
Mata
Pogba
Martial

Add them to the players who are certain or almost certain to leave....

Carrick
Fellaini
Blind
Darmian

That’s some clear out especially when you add in players who need to be replaced because of age, as in Valencia and Young. Then what about the possibility of De Gea being sold?

We are goosed.

Bloody hell how did you get this?

No one has said all 4 CB's are going to or should leave. There is a general agreement that we have one too many CB's and given Rojo's new contract it is between those other 4 for who will leave.

Also no one actually suggested Bailly be sold he is literally the only CB that no one wanted to sell. The other 3 were the ones people wanted to leave and at that it was still only one of the three not all.

pjohnson

If its talk about Shaw I will wonder how things would have worked out if he hadn't broke his leg. He was starting to nail down the LB berth before that happened

BenK

Drumpot wrote: »

I agree with you. I just think he could of been great, shows the fine line between having potential and fulfilling it. Maybe he needs to be at a club like Liverpool where you can be an inconsistent defender , the defense can capitulate and you can still be a starter.

Considering United's play at the moment, don't think we are in a great position to be making digs at Liverpool's team at the moment, even their defense!

StringerBell

GSPfan wrote: »

You are correct on both counts. No one poster said all 12 should go and the consensus of posters wouldn’t want all 12 gone.

Did someone say otherwise?

you wrote:

So if we take the opinion of posters today on which players need to be moved on....

Smalling
Jones
Bailly
Lindelof
Shaw
Mata
Pogba
Martial

Add them to the players who are certain or almost certain to leave....

Carrick
Fellaini
Blind
Darmian

That’s some clear out especially when you add in players who need to be replaced because of age, as in Valencia and Young. Then what about the possibility of De Gea being sold?

We are goosed.

What inspired this post so? "That's some clear out" when apparently nobody called for that clear out.

jayo26

Jaysus the obsession across the road is real.

Love how they celebrating everything negative about United yet we are still ahead of them and played a game less.

Then they wonder why people laugh when they SLIP.

StringerBell

BenK wrote: »

Considering United's play at the moment, don't think we are in a great position to be making digs at Liverpool's team at the moment, even their defense!

If you can't have a dig at those beneath you, who you have just beaten to pop their latest bubble then who can you have a dig at?

pjohnson

StringerBell wrote: »

What inspired this post so? "That's some clear out" when apparently nobody called for that clear out.

I have no idea why he cited Valencia and Young as needing upgrading either. If Shaw does leave we will sign a new starting LB and Young will be backup LB. Valencia's replacement (TFM) will return to us in pre-season so no major surgery needed their either.