Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

54and56

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Sanchez has come on a bit in last few games he's still settling in.

He's 29 and a very experienced PL player. What are the settling in challenges you refer to? The guy is earning a reported £490,000 a week FFS!!

How Soon Is Now

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

He's 29 and a very experienced PL player. What are the settling in challenges you refer to? The guy is earning a reported £490,000 a week FFS!!

He's been put into a team that's a bit all over the place at the best of times right in the middle of the season. Its not exactly the best situation.

TitianGerm

bangkok wrote: »

he is not a prospect though, he was in the fifa world 11 team only a few years ago and was in uefa team of the year the same year. seria a team of the year 3 years in a row. was only europa league player of the year last year

And now it looks like he doesn't know what to do on the field.

54and56

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

If there able to go out there beat Chelsea Liverpool and City but run around like headless chickens against West brom ya can't blame the manager.

I don't think you realise it is EXACTLY the managers job to make sure the players he selects are not only motivated to give 110% but also take to the pitch with a clear game plan that they trust the other 10 players around them to execute.

If players aren't doing that it's absolutely the managers fault and he needs to correct it and/or get rid of those players who aren't 100% committed to the cause and bought into his leadership.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Mourinho isn't the problem. He inherited a poor Europa League squad. Won two trophies last year and has the team on their highest league points total and finish since Fergie left.

People must have forgotten how bad we were at times under Moyes and Van Gaal. We now dominate possession at home again and have improved our performances against the top 6.

United are still in transition from the Fergie-era and some clubs struggle to recover at all from eras of immense success. Look at Liverpool since they last won a league and A.C. Milan currently- it happens.

Considering I'd replace 3/4 of the back 4, add another midfielder and a wide player- I think Mourinho is doing ok. That's half the outfield team not good enough.

We've spent poorly over the years while City's investments have generally been wiser. Falcao, Di Maria, Memphis, Schweinsteiger and, hell, even Fellaini.

There are definite signs of progress and maybe Mourinho will be gone in 2 years but, for now, we're slowly edging in the right direction.

Mourinho knows the players that aren't top level and even saying some were happy with their lot after beating a city team resting players, shows that more players need to be moved out to get us back amongst Europe's elite.

Would Valencia or Young play full back for top European teams? No
Would Smalling or Jones play?
Herrera- grand lad but a squad player.
Martial, for what he cost, runs down blind alleys.
Rashford rarely gets his head up when shooting.
These boys need to grab their chance when it comes along.
Pogba flicks and tricks in the middle third does not make a midfielder.

It's not perfect but leave Jose at it for now. He at least knows a good number of our squad aren't good enough to cut it if we want to win the league or Champions League.

Rant over:)

bangkok

TitianGerm wrote: »

And now it looks like he doesn't know what to do on the field.

as do most of the team.

over the course of the season, its actually hard to see what our game plan is

54and56

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

He's been put into a team that's a bit all over the place at the best of times right in the middle of the season. Its not exactly the best situation.

So two years into his term the team is "a bit all over the place" and that's somehow not the managers fault????

If the manager isn't responsible for the team being organised with a clear game plan for each match who is?

How Soon Is Now

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

I don't think you realise it is EXACTLY the managers job to make sure the players he selects are not only motivated to give 110% but also take to the pitch with a clear game plan that they trust the other 10 players around them to execute.

If players aren't doing that it's absolutely the managers fault and he needs to correct it and/or get rid of those players who aren't 100% committed to the cause and bought into his leadership.

Who's to say he's not trying to do that? He can't play for them on thr pitch.

There's a lot of players in that team who just aren't up to it at that level. Then there's all this talent that can't seem to play together as a team on a permanent basis.

I think it's fairly obvious he has his players he trusts in and the rest he's trying to make thr best of bad situation.

How Soon Is Now

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

So two years into his term the team is "a bit all over the place" and that's somehow not the managers fault????

If the manager isn't responsible for the team being organised with a clear game plan for each match who is?

3 managers in the few years since Fergies left and each one has had a different approach. Look at crap Jose took on in fairness. He's improved things but still needs to change up more.

There's a lot of players there who just aren't up to it.

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

If I'm honest, based on the squad, based on the football we play, I think Jose has been overachieving and doing a stellar job. .

Incredible segment of your post. Absolutely incredible.

I know we sit on opposite sides of the Jose fence, but this just be what it’s like when you are reading my negative posts. You just can’t believe what people are watching and come to conclusion X

What I would say is that I believe it to be incredibly incorrect to claim anything he has done as overachieving. He has broken even, if not been slightly sub par in the grand scheme of things.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Personally don’t find it in the least surprising that a decent proportion of the fanbase are annoyed with limited football from an entertainment perspective that has failed to yield the big prize or challenge for same.

Having fun there?

Your first post #mourinhoball was a poor enough attempt.

Now you've taken a post where the poster has quit the thread and won't be around to respond to you, and knowingly twisted his words completely in another wind-up attempt.

Whatever about the odd decent neutral, the majority of you are in here for the wind-up and some very poor attempts at that. You sprung up giddy to celebrate a West Brom goal which won Man City the league, well done.

Iused2likebusts

Mourinho was dead right to take pogba off and I reckon he is gone in the summer. He was just playing for himself out there today and it got even worse in the second half when he went back into a deeper position. Lost possession sloppily a good few times and barely chased back and then did a series of drag backs near the halfway line that he luckily got away with.

54and56

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

3 managers in the few years since Fergies left and each one has had a different approach. Look at crap Jose took on in fairness. He's improved things but still needs to change up more.

There's a lot of players there who just aren't up to it.

That would make some sense if he had just started in the job but he's had how many transfer windows to sort it out? ???

How Soon Is Now

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

That would make some sense if he had just started in the job but he's had how many transfer windows???

Our position in the league has improved points total has improved goals been scored improved.

He's brought in some very good players some worked some are yet to get there but for the first time since Sir Alex left there moving forward.

The issue is there's only so much you can do with players who can't perform on a regular basis and don't have the mental strength and heart.

If he moves on some of these players and things still don't change then I'll start to believe the issue is with Jose.

redzerdrog

Am sure ye have seen the picture doing the rounds of the fan asleep with the cups on his head. It only adds to the storyline of boring jose but the question does have to asked is how long will man utd tolerate his style of football when the trophies arent coming in? 2 years max?

Dont get me wrong id be a trophies > style but that is only good when successful. Football is a lot more enjoyable when played attacking football and winning. So it is better to have at least one of the two. ****e football and no trophies is not fun for anyone.

Jose won two trophies last season so it justified his style of play but how long will ye be happy with the ****e football without trophies even.if he does deliver top 4?

jimmytwotimes 2013

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

That would make some sense if he had just started in the job but he's had how many transfer windows to sort it out? ???

You can't change nearly the whole team in 1 1/2 seasons. This has to be done over time.

From Van Gaal's time you'd keep De Gea in the first 11 and that's about it. Since then Bailly and Matic have been good. Lukaku doing alright but he's no Van Nistelroy or Yorke etc. Pogba not really up to it so far.

Smalling, Jones, Herrera, Rashford, Martial, Lingard are decent squad options but hardly cause Real Madrid sleepless nights.

Valencia and Young are wingers covering at FB.

United's squad was all over the place when Jose got here, it'll take time.

bangkok

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Mourinho was dead right to take pogba off and I reckon he is gone in the summer. He was just playing for himself out there today and it got even worse in the second half when he went back into a deeper position. Lost possession sloppily a good few times and barely chased back and then did a series of drag backs near the halfway line that he luckily got away with.

i knew he didnt lose possession much today and he played a few nice long balls in the game today. checked the stats he had 4 shots, a passing percentage of 92% which is excellent, won all of his aerial duals, created 1 chance.

i actually think he was substituted as jose thought he would be sent off

http://epl.squawka.com/english-premier-league/14-04-2018/man-utd-vs-wba/matches

he actually had the best passing % of any united player today

jimmytwotimes 2013

bangkok wrote: »

i knew he didnt lose possession much today and he played a few nice long balls in the game today. checked the stats he had 4 shots, a passing percentage of 92% which is excellent, won all of his aerial duals, created 1 chance.

i actually think he was substituted as jose thought he would be sent off

http://epl.squawka.com/english-premier-league/14-04-2018/man-utd-vs-wba/matches

4 shots he had no business taking on. I might as well shoot from my couch for all the chance they had of going in.

PhlegmyMoses

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

That would make some sense if he had just started in the job but he's had how many transfer windows to sort it out? ???

Are you interested in honest discussion or are you just here on a wind-up or to soap box?

What are you hoping to achieve here? That everybody realises that Mourinho is a charlatan and that the emperor has no clothes? It's boring, tiresome and a stupid argument that I'm pretty sure you don't really even believe yourself.

bangkok

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

4 shots he had no business taking on. I might as well shoot from my couch for all the chance they had of going in.

just proves his passing wasnt sloppy as people said it was

GSPfan

I’ve come to accept Jose is here for another season as I don’t think Ed Woodward would have the balls to sack him after a seemingly successful season. It’s not the worst thing either as I have no real suggestion for who would take over from him. We are virtually guaranteed CL football and it seems that is enough for an American owned club. The football we play is shíte and the players we have are playing shíte. My fingers are crossed for the future, I genuinely hope it all works itself out and there is some measure of progress toward a team that plays entertaining football. I’m done with arguments as it only drains the enjoyment of the sport out of me. For those arguing that Jose is the problem and for those arguing that certain players are the problem I can confirm right now you are both right. Stop arguing.

Iused2likebusts

bangkok wrote: »

i knew he didnt lose possession much today and he played a few nice long balls in the game today. checked the stats he had 4 shots, a passing percentage of 92% which is excellent, won all of his aerial duals, created 1 chance.

i actually think he was substituted as jose thought he would be sent off

http://epl.squawka.com/english-premier-league/14-04-2018/man-utd-vs-wba/matches

Some of his shots were him indulging himself . He gave the ball away in bad positions a couple of times in the second half in dangerous positions and I'd say that's what annoyed Jose. Him getting a yellow in the first place was also him indulging himself totally unneccesary.

TitianGerm

redzerdrog wrote: »

Am sure ye have seen the picture doing the rounds of the fan asleep with the cups on his head. It only adds to the storyline of boring jose but the question does have to asked is how long will man utd tolerate his style of football when the trophies arent coming in? 2 years max?

Dont get me wrong id be a trophies > style but that is only good when successful. Football is a lot more enjoyable when played attacking football and winning. So it is better to have at least one of the two. ****e football and no trophies is not fun for anyone.

Jose won two trophies last season so it justified his style of play but how long will ye be happy with the ****e football without trophies even.if he does deliver top 4?

He won the EL and Carling Cup last year and has a chance of the FA cup this year.

uncleoswald

All this Pogba or Jose need to go bollix.

Why not both?

redzerdrog

TitianGerm wrote: »

He won the EL and Carling Cup last year and has a chance of the FA cup this year.

I know I mentioned that so last year was successful thus easier to tolerate the football.

2nd in league and fa cup win would arguably be progress but the performances still horrible to watch. But where do you draw the line? Trophy or bust?

Liam O

uncleoswald wrote: »

All this Pogba or Jose need to go bollix.

Why not both?

Considering Pogba is probably the team's best player and there's no other manager that could be gotten at Jose's level I would say neither should go.

PhlegmyMoses

Also, are the Liverpool fans lamenting the terrible football Mourinho plays forgetting their consistent struggles against packed defences until not more than a couple of months ago?

This time last year Chelsea were irresistible under Conte whilst City with the most expensive side ever assembled were floundering.

United are currently inconsistent but have beaten every team in the league this year at least once. They have shown glimpses of being a powerful, pacey and borderline unstoppable team and we are still a few components short of having a strong first XI. Compare this to anything we've been served up since Fergie left and I'd chop your hand off for this "****e football".

ShaneU

DDG
Valencia Bailly Jones Shaw
Matic Pogba
Sanchez Lingaard Martial
Lukaku

Feck this three in the middle to suit Pogba nonsense, he isn't performing. This is our best 11 and it hasn't been used once this season. Tell Sanchez and Martial to hug the opposition full backs and make runs in behind them and stop dropping back to the fcking halfway line constantly. And get our full backs to overlap and support the attack. This first gear football is driving me insane. Sanchez played plenty of games for Udinese and Barca on the right, I assumed that's why Mourinho signed him because that was a clear weak area for us but no he drops Martial who was on fire at the time, mind boggling stuff.

54and56

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

He's brought in some very good players some worked some are yet to get there

Who are on the the list of those that worked?

Lukaku - 100%, looks like a player who has settled well and with better service can really deliver. Having a very good season and never (in the game I've seen) downs tools which is a change from his days a Everton.

Sanchez - Looks to me like a player who got his last big payday and is now in the comfort zone but that could easily change with a preseason under his belt and a focus to deliver next season.

Bailly - Looks like a very god CB.

Ibra - Was a stop gap signing and delivered for a year but is now gone.

Matic - Consistent and professional. Solid signing who had worked with Mourinho before and knew he could do it again.

Pogba - Ton's of talent but clearly isn't playing for the manager. Unless the relationship can be genuinely mended one of them will have to go and soon as it is an unhealthy situation which could infect other players.

Mkhitaryan - Disaster of a signing. Never really got going.

Lindleolf - Has been dreadful but looks to be improving. Jury still out.

That's 8 players out of a possible outfield 10 which Mourinho has signed plus Lingard, Rashford and McTominay have come through the ranks without being "infected" by time spent playing for Moyes or LVG.

Giving the manager a pass for a team full of players he signed or promoted from the youth ranks being "disorganised" after two years of being in charge is hard to justify IMHO.

Lord TSC

TheDoc wrote: »

Incredible segment of your post. Absolutely incredible.

I know we sit on opposite sides of the Jose fence, but this just be what it’s like when you are reading my negative posts. You just can’t believe what people are watching and come to conclusion X

What I would say is that I believe it to be incredibly incorrect to claim anything he has done as overachieving. He has broken even, if not been slightly sub par in the grand scheme of things.

We have two 30+ year old wingers in full back
We have a midfield who can't create a thing.
We have zero squad depth outside of our attackers, many of whom are prone to going missing,

And despite all that, we are second. And well second.

I don't believe another manager could be doing much better right now with the collection of players available. I'd accept he should have been more ruthless in previous windows, and fought harder to bring in one or two more players. I think those who don't like him, however, would have been chomping at the bit to criticise him had he been as ruthless as we needed.

But I believe that he's gotten a team that plays worse football than Pool or Spurs ahead of them. I believe that there's a massive, massive issue with character that dates back before Jose arrived, and believe he will make a massive attempt to fox that this summer. And I believe there's not a better team prepared to make the improvements this summer to catch up with City than us.

Today's result sucked. But we are still second. I'm not going to throw my toys out of the prism, as disappointed as I am, because the issues I believe are there won't be fixed till a transfer window.

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

PSG just put 7 past monaco!!

Perfect for Pogba. No effort or sweat required

TitianGerm

ShaneU wrote: »

DDG
Valencia Bailly Jones Shaw
Matic Pogba
Sanchez Lingaard Martial
Lukaku

Feck this three in the middle to suit Pogba nonsense, he isn't performing. This is our best 11 and it hasn't been used once this season. Tell Sanchez and Martial to hug the opposition full backs and make runs in behind them and stop dropping back to the fcking halfway line constantly. And get our full backs to overlap and support the attack. This first gear football is driving me insane. Sanchez played plenty of games for Udinese and Barca on the right, I assumed that's why Mourinho signed him because that was a clear weak area for us but no he drops Martial who was on fire at the time, mind boggling stuff.

Would Herera beside Matic and Pogba in Lingard position not be better?

pjohnson

TitianGerm wrote: »

Would Herera beside Matic and Pogba in Lingard position not be better?

Herrera beside Matic and Lingard in front of them.

limnam

Son0vagun wrote: »

For sure. Liverpool’s signings have flourished under Klopp, meanwhile UTDs big marquee signs have failed to show up, they still collect their jumbo paycheques every week though.

Shining so much they're behind them in the league....

Shining so much they couldn't beat us...

Don't let the sun go down....

TitianGerm

pjohnson wrote: »

Herrera beside Matic and Lingard in front of them.

If Pogba can get his form back then he's more use than Lingard. If not probably Mata instead of Lingard.

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

We have two 30+ year old wingers in full back
We have a midfield who can't create a thing.
We have zero squad depth outside of our attackers, many of whom are prone to going missing,

Are you willfully ignoring the solutions to those problems because it would cause you to criticize the manager ?

Because one may argue those problems are his own making.

*Also just copped that you didn’t mean zero depth in attack from my first read. Although, my point still stands.

Mr.H

limnam wrote:

Shining so much they're behind them in the league....

Enjoy the champions league

Mr.H

bangkok wrote:

pogba will still sell close to or over 100m if he does leave

Not even close

LuckyLloyd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Having fun there?

Your first post #mourinhoball was a poor enough attempt.

Now you've taken a post where the poster has quit the thread and won't be around to respond to you, and knowingly twisted his words completely in another wind-up attempt.

Whatever about the odd decent neutral, the majority of you are in here for the wind-up and some very poor attempts at that. You sprung up giddy to celebrate a West Brom goal which won Man City the league, well done.

Any thoughts on the actual post itself? Perfectly reasonable and on topic response to the rage quit.

Liam McPoyle

Jesus it's like 2013 all over again in here.

You'd think that certain people would have learned their lesson after that, or at least wait til the team they support actually wins something before stepping in waving their willies around.

And you'd think some people in here would know better to engage with them.

Yesterday was a shyt show from both players and manager.

No excuses needed, it was woeful.

As was the Sevilla game.

If the year ends up with top 4 and the FA Cup then I'll be relatively happy.

If it ends up with top 4 only then that will be disappointing but acceptable, for now.

Next season nothing other than a proper challenge one of the big two trophies is acceptable.

Jose plays an overly cautious game by times, often to his detriment. The difference with him and Poch or Klopp is that there is no real pressure on them. Failure to make top 4 is not a stackable offence at Spurs or Liverpool.

It is at United. Poch and Klopp started from a low base of expectation and to date have played lovely football but won nothing. Jose came into the club on the back of 3 hugely disappointing years at the club. Even though we won the FA Cup they were still a disappointment. That is proof positive of the weight of expectation that comes with managing a club like United. Poch and Klopp were allowed to get the squad playing their way with no huge expectations. Jose was brought in to get champions league football back and win things, both of which he has done.

Simply put we were spoiled under SAF, absolutely ruined with success as fans so now the expectation from fans and the board is to be challenging for top honours every single year.

And that is absolutely right, but that expectation needs to be tempered with some realism.

Fergie left the team in poor enough shape personnel wise.

We spent alot of money on players that didn't want to be there or simply aren't / weren't good enough.

DDG was the only player I would have hated to see leave when Jose came in, that says it all about the state of the squad. Its being rebuilt and I can accept that.

However the caveat exists that performances and results like yesterday are not acceptable in the long term and they have happened many times this season.

If Jose can't fix it then it will cost him his job. I've no issue with that.

pjohnson

TheDoc wrote: »

Are you willfully ignoring the solutions to those problems because it would cause you to criticize the manager ?

Because one may argue those problems are his own making.

*Also just copped that you didn’t mean zero depth in attack from my first read. Although, my point still stands.

Jose trusted Shaw to come good but he failed miserably. Same with trustinf Pogba. Yet if Jose had/does cut his losses on them I guarantee people will start on about how he can't get the best out of younger players so just sells them. As usual its a Prisonners dilemma for Jose.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Any thoughts on the actual post itself? Perfectly reasonable and on topic response to the rage quit.

Come on Lloyd, you've no interest in debate on the actual post itself or objectively discussing United's problems at the moment, or at least you didn't while in that mode yesterday. The likes of Slick Ric, he was here for wind-up free discussion.

It's fine, yous have a deserved CL semi-final and a decent chance at winning the competition. Gloating, schadenfreude, kicking when the opposition is down, it's all fine. Just don't try to disguise it as anything other than what it is though.

TitianGerm

Mr.H wrote: »

Not even close

He probably would go for €100 million but the market has moved on since he signed so he should be €150+ if he was still performing like he did with Juve.

LuckyLloyd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Come on Lloyd, you've no interest in debate on the actual post itself or objectively discussing United's problems at the moment, or at least you didn't while in that mode yesterday. The likes of Slick Ric, he was here for wind-up free discussion.

It's fine, yous have a deserved CL semi-final and a decent chance at winning the competition. Gloating, schadenfreude, kicking when the opposition is down, it's all fine. Just don't try to disguise it as anything other than what it is though.

I certainly wish Man Utd ill, that’s no secret.

However, the contrast in reactions and outlooks 8 day’s apart is genuinely fascinating. And the ongoing divide on here over the grinding realities of #mourinhoball is fascinating - a divide / debate that was always going to be inevitable upon his appointment barring a league title or European Cup in his first two years.

What’s worth discussing here is whether he’s worth fighting to the last man, or making support of his reign a hill to die (or rage quit) on. This is now the first job he’s had since before Porto in 2002 where he’s failed to win the League and / or the European Cup within his first two seasons. Allied to that, he’s never lasted beyond three full seasons at a club.

It’s not going well. Leaving aside the actualities of inconsistent performance and a lack of clear tactical identity with the ball, if you take a step back the timeline needs to become something it’s never been for a 55 year old for this reign to go where it’s supposed to.

I don’t think it’s ever been realistic to ignore the potential pitfalls of a Mourinho management reign. The positives are supposed to be the big trophies. In that context, I can understand people on here citing progress in the league and onlooking in hopeful apprehension. Those trying to be one eyed and trenchantly defending where ye are going? Don’t get it. It’s one of the most interesting topics in football right now though, make no mistake about that.

Some of its been high level some of its been low level but it all amounts to the same, this threads unreadable at the minute.

Thepoet85

LuckyLloyd wrote:

I certainly wish Man Utd ill, that’s no secret.

Grow up.

LuckyLloyd

Thepoet85 wrote: »

Grow up.

Well, we can be grown up or children but either way we still hope rival sports teams lose, and lose often. Don't see the problem with that.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I certainly wish Man Utd ill, that’s no secret.

However, the contrast in reactions and outlooks 8 day’s apart is genuinely fascinating. And the ongoing divide on here over the grinding realities of #mourinhoball is fascinating - a divide / debate that was always going to be inevitable upon his appointment barring a league title or European Cup in his first two years.

What’s worth discussing here is whether he’s worth fighting to the last man, or making support of his reign a hill to die (or rage quit) on. This is now the first job he’s had since before Porto in 2002 where he’s failed to win the League and / or the European Cup within his first two seasons. Allied to that, he’s never lasted beyond three full seasons at a club.

It’s not going well. Leaving aside the actualities of inconsistent performance and a lack of clear tactical identity with the ball, if you take a step back the timeline needs to become something it’s never been for a 55 year old for this reign to go where it’s supposed to.

I don’t think it’s ever been realistic to ignore the potential pitfalls of a Mourinho management reign. The positives are supposed to be the big trophies. In that context, I can understand people on here citing progress in the league and onlooking in hopeful apprehension. Those trying to be one eyed and trenchantly defending where ye are going? Don’t get it. It’s one of the most interesting topics in football right now though, make no mistake about that.

Since I received a yellow last night for suggesting that there was some blatant winding-up going on in here from neutrals among some decent posting, I'm out of this debate. Not rage quitting, just no interest in being baited into another yellow.

Roll on this year's feedback thread.

Ordinary man

I must have missed something at the weekend cos i thought it was city who won a trophy but it seems to be the liverpool contingent who are lording it. But as long as it's the same rules when they get dumped out of the european cup then it will be worth putting up with

Will I Am Not

Ordinary man wrote: »

I must have missed something at the weekend cos i thought it was city who won a trophy but it seems to be the liverpool contingent who are lording it. But as long as it's the same rules when they get dumped out of the european cup then it will be worth putting up with

Liverpool fans have been cheering on City for the majority of the last 7 years.