Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

pjohnson

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Wasn't even a point. It was to draw level in the super cup.

Whoops thought it was a group encounter.

pjohnson

jayo26 wrote: »

Ronaldo got sent off for deliberate handball (think it was a second yellow) for us too.

That was against City I think (or maybe Blackburn?). He swatted at a Rooney corner for some braindead reason.

How Soon Is Now

Looking forward to seeing what happens in the summer im just hoping we wont lose out because of the world cup.

One thing ive been thinking about lately as a fan it drove me insane this season seeing sky and the likes creaming themselves over mostly city but also Liverpool and at times spurs.

All the while throwing in the digs at Jose and his ''style'' United are horrible to watch the manager doesnt have a clue about the modern game the players dont care........

It makes me think how many of the current United squad see this and use it as something to drive them on?

jayo26

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

It makes me think how many of the current United squad see this and use it as something to drive them on?

Not many judging by some of the performances lately.

AidoEirE

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Looking forward to seeing what happens in the summer im just hoping we wont lose out because of the world cup.

One thing ive been thinking about lately as a fan it drove me insane this season seeing sky and the likes creaming themselves over mostly city but also Liverpool and at times spurs.

All the while throwing in the digs at Jose and his ''style'' United are horrible to watch the manager doesnt have a clue about the modern game the players dont care........

It makes me think how many of the current United squad see this and use it as something to drive them on?

Players should be focused on their game and league position, not what some nobody pundits have to say about their game week in out. Pundits were good footballers back in their day, but football has changed and the same thing they criticise jose for is a scene theyv'e never played in so holds no merit. All my opinion but i think if i was playing for a club like Utd it'd be listening to the coaches around the ground and manager, not some lad on motd that has a 5 minute spot on a saturday night to talk about utd

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

Ronaldo got sent off for deliberate handball (think it was a second yellow) for us too.

Yep against city. Thought he heard the ref blow the whistle. Was a harsh sending off

How Soon Is Now

AidoEirE wrote: »

Players should be focused on their game and league position, not what some nobody pundits have to say about their game week in out. Pundits were good footballers back in their day, but football has changed and the same thing they criticise jose for is a scene theyv'e never played in so holds no merit. All my opinion but i think if i was playing for a club like Utd it'd be listening to the coaches around the ground and manager, not some lad on motd that has a 5 minute spot on a saturday night to talk about utd

I know that and i agree to the point theres pride in playing for the club and the heights the club was once at.

Me personally the bull**** the fact it even exists would drive me on to the point that id want to make it so they havent a thing to say.

That Pogba handball didn't sit well with me.

If he succeeds - He bags United our most unsavoury goal in modern memory, duping the officials and doing a major disservice to his fellow pros. Sure, it would have been a goal for United, but not one I'd be celebrating or would ever look back on fondly.

If he fails, which he did - He gets himself a yellow card early in a game where we need him to be able to play freely without the worry of picking up a second yellow. He looks foolish trying to pull it off and very unsporting, and it's like he's just having a bit of craic in the park as he laughs it off with those around him in the aftermath. Also, the referee is going to know the player will try such a stunt to fool him, and this could influence his decisions with Pogba for the rest of the game.

Not a wise or admirable move at all. It has to be remembered though that Pogba created that whole move which saw the ball played into him in the box. He brought the ball in from CM with a nice dribble, neatly bypassing a West Brom defender to then play the ball out to Sanchez on the wing. Pogba busted a nut to then get into the box and try to get something on that cross from Sanchez, and his drive and determination had to have been peaking at that moment the ball came in.

I can understand why he did it, but can't excuse it. In that case well then we should be seeing plenty more deliberate handball situations around Europe on a weekly basis from players who felt their move deserved a goal.

AidoEirE

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

I know that and i agree to the point theres pride in playing for the club and the heights the club was once at.

Me personally the bull**** the fact it even exists would drive me on to the point that id want to make it so they havent a thing to say.

Also remember we are the most succesful club in england to date, so the pedestal will always be that high for us, unless pool who are our closest in club history pull off some amazing cup winning triumphs the next few years.

Up to the players not to listen to anyone from any sort of punditry because if you do go looking for something like that, your looking for some to say how great you are. Playerd can only get better and itd show a weak mentalilty otherwise.

World class players deliver week in week out and prove critics wrong, not be in a slump and play terrible because someone said something they didnt like

Edit:
Case in point De Gea is someone to look at in our squad that got some abuse from punits his first year here, quite posibbly his second but turned heads on his third year and gradually built on his game not listening but believeing he was in the right place and the team around him helped. Now the best keeper in the world.

S.M.B.

Pogba was the one failing to track the runner for West Broms big first half chance. I'm sure Jose wasn't too happy seeing that.

Maybe he should be played even further up the pitch as an actual 10. I was singing Lukakus praises during the week but Pogba actually managed to stick away 2 chances against City that were similar and actually more difficult than Lukakus against West Brom.

People were raving about his performance against City last week but the things that stuck out for me were his late runs into the box and his finishing.

AidoEirE

Pogba does deserve a lot of this stick on this board, but, and i aint no pogba is god poster

But

The like of Herrera have done nothing to contribute this season, 1 game all season he had last week and all seems to be forgotten, coming from a lot of peoples player of the year and haf a shout for captaincy.
I brought him up before and his court case was brought up, i agreed that it would put you off, something just doesnt sit right with me on how he just be a number on the team, i dont know

Matic has imo also declined as the season went on but has been our most solid. Declined cause he's wrecked come 70 mins cause he has so much to cover. Not a dig at him as he'd be a 7/10 in the seqson so far

Mctominey has been brought in the latter part of the season and looks another nice solid addition doing all the simple things right.

Guess my point is as much as pogba deserves alot of stick theres players that are escaping deserved stick like herrera and a lot of work needa to be added to that mid, which has been like that for years

Anyway i ramble

IamtheWalrus

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Looking forward to seeing what happens in the summer im just hoping we wont lose out because of the world cup.

One thing ive been thinking about lately as a fan it drove me insane this season seeing sky and the likes creaming themselves over mostly city but also Liverpool and at times spurs.

All the while throwing in the digs at Jose and his ''style'' United are horrible to watch the manager doesnt have a clue about the modern game the players dont care........

It makes me think how many of the current United squad see this and use it as something to drive them on?

If I hear another summer of 'I ask my chairman for 3 and he give 2 so I'm happy' I'll be sick. A fundamental overhaul is needed.

AidoEirE

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

If I hear another summer of 'I ask my chairman for 3 and he give 2 so I'm happy' I'll be sick. A fundamental overhaul is needed.

And if hear a argument for jones to stay i might be sick with you pal

jayo26

It won't feel like summer transfer window until Mitch looses his sh1t because we haven't done our business in the first few days

Sorry Mitch

Cantona's Collars

jayo26 wrote: »

It won't feel like summer transfer window until Mitch looses his sh1t because we haven't done our business in the first few days

Sorry Mitch

From what Jose said a while back we could see any business done very early in the window.

AidoEirE

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

From what Jose said a while back we could see any business done very early in the window.

1 CB a RB, two CM's

AidoEirE

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

From what Jose said a while back we could see any business done very early in the window.

Jones will be gone, Fellani, Cartick and Martial

beno619

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

If I hear another summer of 'I ask my chairman for 3 and he give 2 so I'm happy' I'll be sick. A fundamental overhaul is needed.

Prepare to be disappointed.

bangkok

Mourinho has confirmed pogba was taken off as he was on a yellow and was running the risk of a red

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

Mourinho has confirmed pogba was taken off as he was on a yellow and was running the risk of a red

Ahh so you believe what Jose says now?

Maybe he is just saying that maybe he thought pogba wasn't contributing anything in midfield and wanted him off??

Maybe he doesn't want to ruin relations completely as it would ruin his transfer value?

Nope we will believe Jose this time because he isn't damning pogba.

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

Mourinho has confirmed pogba was taken off as he was on a yellow and was running the risk of a red

Which is still down to Pogba's own stupidity but he found it great fun.

Mitch Connor

jayo26 wrote: »

It won't feel like summer transfer window until Mitch looses his sh1t because we haven't done our business in the first few days

Sorry Mitch

It's absolute bs. We need to get a DoF to take transfers away from Woodward. Look at Liverpool, already got their big summer signing done and what do we have? Young at left back.

DARK-KNIGHT

pogba should be our cam imo... take the defensive side away from his responsibilities and let him be creative.

so many players disappointing tbh

can see big changes again this summer

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

Ahh so you believe what Jose says now?

Maybe he is just saying that maybe he thought pogba wasn't contributing anything in midfield and wanted him off??

Maybe he doesn't want to ruin relations completely as it would ruin his transfer value?

Nope we will believe Jose this time because he isn't damning pogba.

No because it is more than likely the truth. He had a 92% pass completion as well which is actually excellent higher than any other player on the pitch

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

No because it is more than likely the truth. He had a 92% pass completion as well which is actually excellent higher than any other player on the pitch

Always an excuse for Pogba eh?

pjohnson

Actually it appears bangkok is spreading more lies.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190502/LiveStatistics/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Manchester-United-West-Bromwich-Albion

Herrera had higher pass completion and despite playing 17 minutes less than Pogba only had one less pass. Valencia also had .2% better passing than Pogba.

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

No because it is more than likely the truth. He had a 92% pass completion as well which is actually excellent higher than any other player on the pitch

So when it suits you it's ok to use statistics.

If we go on the most important statistic of all then united are second in table and making great improvements and everything is fine but as you know statistics don't show everything they don't show that pogba got caught in possession the other day so many times because he wouldn't play quick forward passes instead he got pressed and passed the ball out to the defenders.

pjohnson

jayo26 wrote: »

So when it suits you it's ok to use statistics.

If we go on the most important statistic of all then united are second in table and making great improvements and everything is fine but as you know statistics don't show that pogba got caught in possession the other day so many times because he wouldn't play quick forward passes instead he got pressed and passed the ball out to the defenders.

Its false statistics anyway he is using :pac:

bangkok

pjohnson wrote: »

Actually it appears bangkok is spreading more lies.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190502/LiveStatistics/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Manchester-United-West-Bromwich-Albion

Herrera had higher pass completion and despite playing 17 minutes less than Pogba only had one less pass.

Pogba our best player going by that website... thanks for that

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

So when it suits you it's ok to use statistics.

If we go on the most important statistic of all then united are second in table and making great improvements and everything is fine but as you know statistics don't show everything they don't show that pogba got caught in possession the other day so many times because he wouldn't play quick forward passes instead he got pressed and passed the ball out to the defenders.

How many times was he caught in possession??

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

Pogba our best player going by that website... thanks for that

What about your BS over his passing stats being found out?

I didnt know anyone took who scoreds player rating system seriously btw so of course you do.

bangkok

pjohnson wrote: »

What about your BS over his passing stats being found out?

The link to the website i posted previous had him as top passer.

Lord TSC

Reports of Bayern and Juvi fighting it out for Martial, which is good news. A bidding war means better deals.

Both have players we should be asking about as well....

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

How many times was he caught in possession??

I remember 3 times in the second half alone.

How about you ask how many times did he create anything for the forwards?

Twist it what ever way you like and even tho the rest if the team were bad the reason we are debating pogba is because some people can't actually critique him and hold him to the same standards they hold others.

Toobz

Lord TSC wrote: »

Reports of Bayern and Juvi fighting it out for Martial, which is good news. A bidding war means better deals.

Both have players we should be asking about as well....

What player in their right mind from either of those teams would leave them right now for us? Pogba was part of a big rebuild vision which is pear shaped as we don't have a fully functional team and I'm sure the football offered to him was much more exciting than what's being played.

Ridiculous we're letting him go, if we are.

Lord TSC

Toobz wrote: »

What player in their right mind from either of those teams would leave them right now for us? Pogba was part of a big rebuild vision which is pear shaped as we don't have a fully functional team and I'm sure the football offered to him was much more exciting than what's being played.

Ridiculous we're letting him go, if we are.

What player would come to a team second in their league, in the champions league, willing to double their wages, and to play with a manager with a long history of winning trophies, and is now at one of the biggest clubs in the world?

I seriously wonder about the utter desire to be negative that people have some times, and the inability to have a bit of objective thoughts about the situation.

Liam McPoyle

bangkok wrote: »

Pogba our best player going by that website... thanks for that

Your unremitting defense of Pogba, by any means necessary, is as laughable as your criticism of the likes of Fellaini and Lukaku.

Any person that watch's us with any kind of objectivity knows that more often than not Pogba has been poor over the last number of months.

Stats don't mean Jack shyt. 92% pass completion, whoop de fcuking do, he managed to do the most rudimentary thing a footballer should be able to do.

It's always someone else's fault when it comes to him.

It would be fcuking laughable if it wasn't so pathetic.

Discodog

Manchester United players who performed poorly in their Premier League defeat by West Brom will be dropped for Saturday's FA Cup semi-final against Tottenham, says boss Jose Mourinho.

The Red Devils were beaten 1-0 by bottom side West Brom at Old Trafford on Sunday, ensuring Manchester City won the Premier League title.

United play Bournemouth in the league on Wednesday before facing Spurs.

"The way you play is the only way I can select players," said Mourinho.

The Portuguese manager said "some of the guys" that played against West Brom "don't have a place" in the team for the semi-final at Wembley.

He added the Bournemouth match at Vitality Stadium was "an opportunity for some people to play and to try to get a place in the team for Spurs".

When asked to clarify if he meant those who performed badly against the Baggies will now not face Spurs, Mourinho said: "Yeah.

"What is the criteria for a manager to choose a team?

"I only know one criteria: is the way you play.

"Or do you want me to go for the price they cost, or their salary, or their beautiful face? The only way is to go with performance."

United midfielder Ander Herrera was taken off at half-time against West Brom, while Paul Pogba was replaced in the 58th minute.

Regarding Pogba's performance, Mourinho said: "It was not just him and he had a yellow card, so he was in a more difficult position than others.

"And playing with only two midfield players, you cannot play with one player in risk of not being able to make a foul.

"You can do it if your team is not losing the ball, but our team was losing the ball so easy with the complication, everything was complicated, so we were losing lots of balls.

"Paul was out because of the yellow card, because of in terms the way he played he was not worse than some others that were on the pitch for 90 minutes."

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/43791546

Adamocovic

Really hope we don't sell Martial.

Yes, has failed to be consistent for a large part of his career with us, but over the last 2-3 years that could be said about nearly all of our players. Has shown enough to prove his class and is still only 22. Obviously with Sanchez and Rashford his playing time has been cut significantly so I can see us cashing in on him, reckon if we do he'll become an hugely important player for whatever team goes for him.

Rashford and Sanchez are both great talented players, no doubt, but personally think Martial is a more natural left sided winger, while the other two can rotate around positions. Probably personal bias here but would be hugely disappointed if we let him go.

Adamocovic

Stats I find a funny thing. Most people seem to think they are pointless, unless of course they are using them to their advantage.

bangkok

Business Cat wrote: »

Your unremitting defense of Pogba, by any means necessary, is as laughable as your criticism of the likes of Fellaini and Lukaku.

Any person that watch's us with any kind of objectivity knows that more often than not Pogba has been poor over the last number of months.

Stats don't mean Jack shyt. 92% pass completion, whoop de fcuking do, he managed to do the most rudimentary thing a footballer should be able to do.

It's always someone else's fault when it comes to him.

It would be fcuking laughable if it wasn't so pathetic.

Considering he has not being played to his strenghts then yes it is someone elses fault... the manager

Also my criticism of lukaku still stands, his movement off the ball is poor in the box and his first touch is still poor

pjohnson

Adamocovic wrote: »

Stats I find a funny thing. Most people seem to think they are pointless, unless of course they are using them to their advantage.

Thats the same with most types of statistics tbf. Statistics are always an interesting thing but can be manipulated or misunderstood easily

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

carrick is already involved in the coaching and has been in the stands with mourinho as a coach already. thought it was interesting he said the other day that there were a few things he would change if he was the manager

Oh yeah I know he has been involved. Got the impression he is being given some exposure to get up to speed ahead of the full time role next season.

Where did he give quotes like that?

Adamocovic

pjohnson wrote: »

Thats the same with most types of statistics tbf. Statistics are always an interesting thing but can be manipulated or misunderstood easily

Oh don't get me wrong. I do love statistics, bit of a stat nerd in that sense.

It's just gas how most of us see them as pointless unless they back up our argument, something I'm guilty of too.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

Oh yeah I know he has been involved. Got the impression he is being given some exposure to get up to speed ahead of the full time role next season.

Where did he give quotes like that?

He did an interview with gary neville last week

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

I honestly think it’s the only way to play him if you are going to play him. Like he started the game yesterday. And was awful.

I know people think I’m on Pogbas back all the time but I find it astonishing that people absolve him of all personal responsibility and lay it all at the managers door.

He’s been a failure for me and if we could get the money back on him I think it would be wiser than continuing to try and build a team around him.

As a big Pogba fan, I'm not absolving him of any blame. Of course he is personally responsible. But there is also a clear seperation in terms of what he is amazing at, what he is good at, and what he is not great at.

When it boils down to this sort of scenario, for me, I'm looking at the manager ultimately. His job is to extract the best from talented players.

I made the same criticisms against Ferguson with the likes of Berbatov and Kagawa.

If Pogba was sold in the summer, there is no way I could sit and say "oh well its just one of those that didn't work out". He is a clearly talented and brilliant player, with pedigree behind him before he joined, and he is only showing flashes of his brilliance. Of course that is somewhat down to him on a personal level to control his own involvement and consistency, but there is plenty the manager is responsible for.

I'm just as ultimately disappointed with Pogba as anyone else. I just don't go to the extremes of others calling him a flop or take umbrage with his hair as some way of explaining the issues with him.

Players of that ability and talent, it's likely a partnership with the coach where both need to be working with each other and for each other. Like Pogba saved some serious skin for Mourinho against City, a big save. I think both could possibly be doing more for themselves and each other, and whatever is going on between them needs to be sorted out.

But the reality of the situation is we signed an immense player, one of the best in the world. He could and still can be one of the best in the world, both parties need to just get their head out of their arse and start working together for the clubs sake, should any personal or individual issues be making the other defensive.

I thought Mourinhos dig at Pogba's training, was calculated and sly knowing well fans can't see what happens there. And it won't be something Pogba would respond well too.

I'd probably go on a limb to say the majority of fans if push came to shove, would take Pogba over Mourinho. It's a clear one in the United circles I'm in anyway, this forum being the only place I experience such contention over the issue and the situation.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

As a big Pogba fan, I'm not absolving him of any blame. Of course he is personally responsible. But there is also a clear seperation in terms of what he is amazing at, what he is good at, and what he is not great at.

When it boils down to this sort of scenario, for me, I'm looking at the manager ultimately. His job is to extract the best from talented players.

I made the same criticisms against Ferguson with the likes of Berbatov and Kagawa.

If Pogba was sold in the summer, there is no way I could sit and say "oh well its just one of those that didn't work out". He is a clearly talented and brilliant player, with pedigree behind him before he joined, and he is only showing flashes of his brilliance. Of course that is somewhat down to him on a personal level to control his own involvement and consistency, but there is plenty the manager is responsible for.

I'm just as ultimately disappointed with Pogba as anyone else. I just don't go to the extremes of others calling him a flop or take umbrage with his hair as some way of explaining the issues with him.

Players of that ability and talent, it's likely a partnership with the coach where both need to be working with each other and for each other. Like Pogba saved some serious skin for Mourinho against City, a big save. I think both could possibly be doing more for themselves and each other, and whatever is going on between them needs to be sorted out.

But the reality of the situation is we signed an immense player, one of the best in the world. He could and still can be one of the best in the world, both parties need to just get their head out of their arse and start working together for the clubs sake, should any personal or individual issues be making the other defensive.

I thought Mourinhos dig at Pogba's training, was calculated and sly knowing well fans can't see what happens there. And it won't be something Pogba would respond well too.

I'd probably go on a limb to say the majority of fans if push came to shove, would take Pogba over Mourinho. It's a clear one in the United circles I'm in anyway, this forum being the only place I experience such contention over the issue and the situation.

I would agree with that. Any of my utd supporting mates would rather see jose gone than pogba.

TheDoc

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

I know that and i agree to the point theres pride in playing for the club and the heights the club was once at.

Me personally the bull**** the fact it even exists would drive me on to the point that id want to make it so they havent a thing to say.

And maybe they want to. Maybe they did second half vs City.

I thought when the manager said they were working on faster transitions he was changing something, but it transpired to be another isolated game strategy.

I'd imagine the players arn't in a great place. And I imagine they do look around, ask around or read or view whats going on. Why are we getting slaughtered, we are in second, could win the FA Cup.

Reality starts to dawn, rivals play much better styles, are much better organised and coached in the attack, and surely some of the more attack minded players, that probably toys with them. There is a reason those Martial stories emerged at the end of the day.

And if you have gone through two seasons of this, with little invention or change, the only likely change being "different players" I'm sure there is disillusion in there in parts.

Footballers like managers love passing the blame and the buck. I'm sure they would say they could do more, but what can you do when the manager will probably drop you or doesn't provide a platform for it in the first place.

TheDoc

AidoEirE wrote: »

The like of Herrera have done nothing to contribute this season, 1 game all season he had last week and all seems to be forgotten, coming from a lot of peoples player of the year and haf a shout for captaincy.
I brought him up before and his court case was brought up, i agreed that it would put you off, something just doesnt sit right with me on how he just be a number on the team, i dont know

Herrera has indeed been bit part this year, but much less to do with his court case, I'd imagine much more knowing he had a falling out with the manager and likely being jettisoned in the summer.

TheDoc

jayo26 wrote: »

Ahh so you believe what Jose says now?

Maybe he is just saying that maybe he thought pogba wasn't contributing anything in midfield and wanted him off??

Maybe he doesn't want to ruin relations completely as it would ruin his transfer value?

Nope we will believe Jose this time because he isn't damning pogba.

I think it's clear bangkok gets selective, or he doesn't understand how to intepret Jose when he speaks and what he says.

He was extremely critical of Pogba, and took him off because he was playing poorly in his eyes.