Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt. 2

Nalz

jayo26 wrote: »

Jaysus the obsession across the road is real.

Love how they celebrating everything negative about United yet we are still ahead of them and played a game less.

Then they wonder why people laugh when they SLIP.

Again, there's no need to care or show you care.

Andrew Beef

Money talks in the modern game. Someone like Pogba who is the personification of style over substance could end up anywhere if the price is right. Sadly for us, the bottom line is that he probably isn’t good enough.

bangkok

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Money talks in the modern game. Someone like Pogba who is the personification of style over substance could end up anywhere if the price is right. Sadly for us, the bottom line is that he probably isn’t good enough.

But it wont be spurs, arsenal ac milan or la galaxy

GSPfan

I would genuinely be delighted to see a massive change of first team personnel but I just won’t be holding my breath as it’s a big ask. The only people I want to retain their place in the first 11 on a regular basis are listed below. Anyone not on that list can be sold or benched for all I care. I like a lot of other players but at this stage I would rather massive changes to the playing staff or a manager change. Something has to change.

De Gea
Bailly
Matic
Pogba
Rashford
Sanchez
Lukaku

RobbingBandit

BBC says Young 1 year extension triggered

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/43458648

yabadabado

GSPfan wrote: »

I would genuinely be delighted to see a massive change of first team personnel but I just won’t be holding my breath as it’s a big ask. The only people I want to retain their place in the first 11 on a regular basis are listed below. Anyone not on that list can be sold or benched for all I care. I like a lot of other players but at this stage I would rather massive changes to the playing staff or a manager change. Something has to change.

De Gea
Bailly
Matic
Pogba
Rashford
Sanchez
Lukaku

I think that will be the core of the team next year. Add in a LB and CM. Both need to be bought in the summer and probably a replacement for Valencia although I think he may be safe for now.
Another CB may arrive and possibly a wide RW.

We don't need squad players really it's the first 11 needing improvements and players like Young/McT dropping back into squad rotation.


Critical summer for Jose, needs the transfers to work out and get closer to a title or I think he will be going summer 2019.

Andrew Beef

Mata should be a big part of any plan.

jackwigan

bangkok wrote: »

LA galaxy?!!!

Goodluck

It wouldn't be an unprecedented move, Alex Hunter did a loan stint there and it did wonders for his career.

Leroy42

Didn't Jose say that he had the team he wanted back last August, that he has been backed by the club in the transfer window?

Now he is claiming we need a complete revamp?

And why is nobody seriously questioning why Sanchez has been so woeful. Miky is doing fine over in Arsenal. Why has Jose not been able to get Sanchez producing? Sanchez has been nothing short of awful. Why? What is so wrong that he cannot even show glimpses of his real ability.

We have also seen Jose do this 'blame everyone else' thing in the past. It has never ended well for either him or the club.

jayo26

jayo26 wrote: »

Jaysus the obsession across the road is real.

Love how they celebrating everything negative about United yet we are still ahead of them and played a game less.

Then they wonder why people laugh when they SLIP.

Why do you care? Isn't that just the same?

Andrew Beef

Sanchez just looks to be trying too hard...he will come good.

jayo26

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why do you care? Isn't that just the same?

.

We were told by i think it was plenty of fish I'm not sure but was some moderator anyway not to discuss Liverpool in United thread at the start of the last superthread we were told to go into the liverpool thread to discuss liverpool related stuff.

When we go in there we are hounded out and some accused of trolling but yet its ok to have a week long tribute to United after they get knocked out of Europe with countless pages about United and there manager over the course of a week.

I don't care that it's been discussed in there its amusing but I do care about fairness across all threads I care that if we want to have a discussion about them we are told to go into that thread.

Leroy42

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Sanchez just looks to be trying too hard...he will come good.

And wouldn't it be the managers job to help overcome that, to show them in training what is, and isn't required.

How many matches now, and Jose still hasn't been able to get through to him?

Liam O

Leroy42 wrote: »

And wouldn't it be the managers job to help overcome that, to show them in training what is, and isn't required.

How many matches now, and Jose still hasn't been able to get through to him?

A lot fewer than Wenger was unable to sort him out in this season.

Andrew Beef

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Sanchez just looks to be trying too hard...he will come good.

I remember him even from Udinese. He needs joy to play well. If he is unhappy he doesn't play.

Andrew Beef

Leroy42 wrote: »

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Sanchez just looks to be trying too hard...he will come good.

And wouldn't it be the managers job to help overcome that, to show them in training what is, and isn't required.

How many matches now, and Jose still hasn't been able to get through to him?

Players can underestimate the challenge ahead of them; United are a huge club, and much bigger than Arsenal. There is a lot more pressure at Old Trafford. Players are only human; Sanchez is probably thinking “but I’m so good, I have to show them!”. He’ll be fine in time. With Pogba though, the issue is terminal; he is a nothing player.

Leroy42

I agree that Sanchez is a top player and the probability is that he will regain his form.

But then that in itself calls into question the value of Jose. If he can't get Sanchez to his best, and we simply have to wait for the player to sort it out, then why would we trust him with other players?

This should have been the easiest integration. Years of EPL experience, looking to move. Look at Miky at Arsenal. He has already started to deliver. Yet there is little doubt who is the better player.

yabadabado

Leroy42 wrote: »

Didn't Jose say that he had the team he wanted back last August, that he has been backed by the club in the transfer window?

Now he is claiming we need a complete revamp?

And why is nobody seriously questioning why Sanchez has been so woeful. Miky is doing fine over in Arsenal. Why has Jose not been able to get Sanchez producing? Sanchez has been nothing short of awful. Why? What is so wrong that he cannot even show glimpses of his real ability.

We have also seen Jose do this 'blame everyone else' thing in the past. It has never ended well for either him or the club.

Mickey has done sfa since the move happened either. Sanchez has been a major disappointment so far but he has shown the quality before that I'd expect him to get up to speed soon.

~Rebel~

yabadabado wrote: »

Mickey has done sfa since the move happened either. Sanchez has been a major disappointment so far but he has shown the quality before that I'd expect him to get up to speed soon.

I mean, he's not pulling up trees, but in an underperforming team he still a goal and 4 assists in 5 league starts.

yabadabado

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I mean, he's not pulling up trees, but in an underperforming team he still a goal and 4 assists in 5 league starts.

And has shown his usual wasteful tendencies in many of the games. He had a similar run at the start of the season and then disappeared for long spells.

Lord TSC

Sanchez joined the team, what, 6 or 7 weeks ago? No preseason or anything, just dropped into the middle of a team that also is going through a few weeks of dodgy form (not in results, but in terms of gameplay).

That was part of the benefit of buying in January; he's got six months to learn up and start integrating. He'll be a step ahead of any new signings made in the summer.

I know his form has been rocky, but can we wait longer than two months before we're writing off people?

Leroy42

Yes, but what has Sanchez done? The comparison with Miky was not to show who was the better player, but which one was producing the expected level at their new club.

We have Miky, who has played much less football and was having confidence issues at least producing close to his level for Arsenal. Compare that to Sanchez.

bangkok

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Players can underestimate the challenge ahead of them; United are a huge club, and much bigger than Arsenal. There is a lot more pressure at Old Trafford. Players are only human; Sanchez is probably thinking “but I’m so good, I have to show them!”. He’ll be fine in time. With Pogba though, the issue is terminal; he is a nothing player.

Ok Eamonn

jayo26

No one said Sanchez done anything special he had a few decent games when he landed first he did well against Chelsea too linking up with lukaku only couple of weeks ago.

Seen how bad he is ment to be he still has a goal and few assists and has had some nice passages of play.

Leroy42

Lord TSC wrote: »

I know his form has been rocky, but can we wait longer than two months before we're writing off people?

Just to clarify, I am not writing him off. I totally agree he will come good (I said so a few posts back).

The point is that Jose has been unable to unlock the potential. With a further revamp of the squad seemingly upcoming, surely this bodes poorly.

pjohnson

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yes, but what has Sanchez done? The comparison with Miky was not to show who was the better player, but which one was producing the expected level at their new club.

We have Miky, who has played much less football and was having confidence issues at least producing close to his level for Arsenal. Compare that to Sanchez.

Mhiki's stats are great until you remember they are based over 2 matches and nothing in the other 3. 3 assists against an Everton defence that couldn't tell its arsé from its elbow in a 5 - 1 win and the other goal and assist against Watford in a easy 3-0 win.

bangkok

strong words from a source close Shaw

"Mourinho's treatment of Luke is an absolute disgrace. If he has a problem with him, the decent thing to do would be to keep it in-house.

"If this kind of abuse happened in any other workplace, there would be a case for constructive dismissal. It's disgusting.

"A few weeks ago, Mourinho was praising him, now he can't do anything right.

"Luke's a strong lad and he won't let Mourinho ruin his life. He'll consider his future in the summer and is still determined to be part of the England squad heading for Russia."

You wouldn't know what to believe from the papers about Jose and Luke Shaw now that there is evidently a problem between the two. The journos could be just using Jose's comments to write any article they want about him and Shaw at this point..

I'm seeing reports in one paper that several Manchester United players are getting concerned with the 'bullying' of Shaw by Jose.

The raggiest of rags then put up an article in the last few hours saying that Shaw and Jose had a training ground 'bust-up' following the Palace game. Shaw demanded a meeting to get assurances about his future, but apparently Jose was well prepared and hit Shaw with an 'extraordinary outburst that convinced Shaw he has no chance of repairing his relationship with the manager.' Apparently Shaw was then told he would play against Brighton, but it would be with the intention to put Shaw in the 'shop window' for a Summer move.

Elsewhere, I'm seeing reports of Shaw being done and wanting out of the club because of his treatment by Jose.

Then I'm seeing reports of Shaw being determined to put his head down and fight for his place at the club no matter what the manager says.

I think it's safe to assume, especially in this barren international break, that many articles will be pulled from many arses about the Jose/Shaw situation.

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

strong words from a source close Shaw

"Mourinho's treatment of Luke is an absolute disgrace. If he has a problem with him, the decent thing to do would be to keep it in-house.

"If this kind of abuse happened in any other workplace, there would be a case for constructive dismissal. It's disgusting.

"A few weeks ago, Mourinho was praising him, now he can't do anything right.

"Luke's a strong lad and he won't let Mourinho ruin his life. He'll consider his future in the summer and is still determined to be part of the England squad heading for Russia."

Again I ask, is the implication here that Shaw had no clue prior to this that Jose had issues with him?

This idea that Jose didn't try to sort this out behind the scenes is laughable. The outburst we saw on camera was one of a man who had reached a tipping point and was sick of the player in question. Four managers have criticized Shaw's professionalism now. At some point, people need to accept the issue isn't the managers, it's Shaw himself.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

Again I ask, is the implication here that Shaw had no clue prior to this that Jose had issues with him?

This idea that Jose didn't try to sort this out behind the scenes is laughable. The outburst we saw on camera was one of a man who had reached a tipping point and was sick of the player in question. Four managers have criticized Shaw's professionalism now. At some point, people need to accept the issue isn't the managers, it's Shaw himself.

but if jose was sick of him already, why did he even start him?

i think shaw should leave in the summer, but i dont agree and dont know how anyone can agree with public outbursts against the player or any player for that matter

this were his quotes after everton game last season

"He [Shaw] had a good performance but it was his body with my brain," said Mourinho. "He was in front of me and I was making every decision for him.

"The communication was possible because we were very close. I was thinking for him, when to close inside, when to open, when to press the opponent, I was making every decision for him."

DM_7

Elite sport is a BRUTAL world and any weakness will cause people to fail.

As TSC says, Shaw is sure to know exactly what Jose thinks of his work pivately.

Manchester United are the major click generators in the Premier League. Magical how sources to comment in everything appear so easily. My sources tell me that not all sources really exist!

~Rebel~

pjohnson wrote: »

Mhiki's stats are great until you remember they are based over 2 matches and nothing in the other 3. 3 assists against an Everton defence that couldn't tell its arsrom its elbow in a 5 - 1 win and the other goal and assist against Watford in a easy 3-0 win.

Is that not still substantially better than Sanchez's 1 goal (from a penalty) and zero assists in the league? He's played several poor teams too, and has accomplished less than Mkhitaryan. Though I guess Sanchez does have an FA cup assist against Yeovil to his name, right?

But actually, I don't blame Sanchez at all. As i've said before, the failure of a lack of cohesive attacking structure always comes back to Jose. He can't just set out a bunch of good attackers and say "ok, go do stuff!". As we've seen with both City and Liverpool, the best attacks have dynamic patterns of movement and passing drilled into them.

bangkok

DM_7 wrote: »

Elite sport is a BRUTAL world and any weakness will cause people to fail.

As TSC says, Shaw is sure to know exactly what Jose thinks of his work pivately.

Manchester United are the major click generators in the Premier League. Magical how sources to comment in everything appear so easily. My sources tell me that not all sources really exist!

yea he probably is, but shaw must also be doing well in training or he wouldnt be anywhere near the first team

the issue i have and it seems shaw has as well, is the public comments and humiliation by mourinho

~Rebel~

Lord TSC wrote: »

Again I ask, is the implication here that Shaw had no clue prior to this that Jose had issues with him?

This idea that Jose didn't try to sort this out behind the scenes is laughable. The outburst we saw on camera was one of a man who had reached a tipping point and was sick of the player in question. Four managers have criticized Shaw's professionalism now. At some point, people need to accept the issue isn't the managers, it's Shaw himself.

I would say the outburst we saw was the outburst of a man prone to outbursts about everything, all the time.

Leroy42

Lord TSC wrote: »

Again I ask, is the implication here that Shaw had no clue prior to this that Jose had issues with him?

This idea that Jose didn't try to sort this out behind the scenes is laughable. The outburst we saw on camera was one of a man who had reached a tipping point and was sick of the player in question. Four managers have criticized Shaw's professionalism now. At some point, people need to accept the issue isn't the managers, it's Shaw himself.

Thats not really the issue though is it? Jose put him in to play either because he felt he was good enough or he wanted to put him in the shop window.

If the former, then how did Jose make such a massive miscalculation? What did Jose see in training that gave him the confidence to put him into such an important game (we simply could not afford to lose that game) and yet not only take him off at half time but then call the player out as useless.

If the latter, then it will hardly have helped any potential sale for Jose to publicly state the player is rubbish.

On either count Jose has done damage.

Whether Shaw is good enough or not is almost irrelevant. Jose has previously indicated Shaw had issues and most people accept that as a professional manager making his judgement (or 4 managers as was stated).

GSPfan

I was only thinking earlier on about mental health in the workplace and it’s strange to think that Jose can do what he done to Luke Shaw and not at least have a call from the HR department. Football clubs are not run like normal businesses but you have Aaron Lennon admitting to his struggles and even Mertesacker talking about looking forward to retirement because of the pressure of it all.

~Rebel~

GSPfan wrote: »

I was only thinking earlier on about mental health in the workplace and it’s strange to think that Jose can do what he done to Luke Shaw and not at least have a call from the HR department. Football clubs are not run like normal businesses but you have Aaron Lennon admitting to his struggles and even Mertesacker talking about looking forward to retirement because of the pressure of it all.

True, from the stories we hear from footballers finally speaking out, it seems like there's actually a disproportionately high number of players with mental health issues. Which isn't too surprising, given the pressure they are constantly under, and the somewhat warped world of values they've risen up through.

Something with an actual source...

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/975769392997953536

Philippe Lamboley (Martial's agent): "All that has been reported in the Italian papers about my client is false." #mulive [il bianconero]


Optimistic translation; Martial is happy at United. Not going anywhere this Summer.

Pessimistic/realistic translation; You Juventus pricks, you bought Raiola a holiday home in Bali when you were scouting Pogba six years ago. I need to feel a lot more love from you right now. Daniel Levy says I can have access to one of his Cessnas for as long as I don't shoot down the Martial to Spurs links. Be more like Daniel please.

Edit; Just seen this too, Ducker can be reliable for United news...

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/975766215594512385

Darmian, Blind, Smalling, Fellaini and Herrera could leave in the summer. #mufc want to keep Pogba and Martial #mulive [james ducker]

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

but if jose was sick of him already, why did he even start him?

Probably because Jose, like everyone, can see the potential Shaw has. That must be even more infuriating for a manager. There's players like Blind and Darmian who he obviously feels their level isn't good enough. With Shaw, the fact he does give him chances shows he feels Shaw COULD be good enough if he actually bothered his hole.

Jose has no problem utterly freezing out players he doesn't believe in. So that Shaw hovers round the bench, and gets the odd game, shows that Jose obviously values him higher than Darmian or Blind.

Which, again, is probably where Jose's frustration comes from. He sees a good player in Shaw, but sees it in someone who apparently won't follow Jose's instructions and doesn't seem all that bothered.

StringerBell

Leroy42 wrote: »

Didn't Jose say that he had the team he wanted back last August, that he has been backed by the club in the transfer window?

Now he is claiming we need a complete revamp?

And why is nobody seriously questioning why Sanchez has been so woeful. Miky is doing fine over in Arsenal. Why has Jose not been able to get Sanchez producing? Sanchez has been nothing short of awful. Why? What is so wrong that he cannot even show glimpses of his real ability.

We have also seen Jose do this 'blame everyone else' thing in the past. It has never ended well for either him or the club.

No he didn't say he had the team he wanted.

No he isn't claiming we need a complete revamp.

Sanchez is setting in, Micki is not setting the world alight. Relax.

Turtwig

Pardon to the analogy. It's like Balotelli. Every coach knows other coaches have had issues with him but they all see his potential and it's all too easy for them to be tempted into thinking they can effect change in the player's attitude.

adox

Jaysus it would be one thing if Jose was bullying Shaw in his day to day work or something.

It’s not like a normal job. How many jobs does your manager go on live tv after you have preformed your work and discuss how his team performed?

Jose has pissed me off in the last few weeks big time and I have my reservations about him for the first time but Shaw can **** off if he can’t do what he’s told and then gets upset when he’s hooked and told exactly why to an interviewer when the question is asked of the manager.

I think I may have said it before but, from the outside looking in you get the impression that Shaw signing for Utd was him making it rather than being the start of his chance to really make it.

The way I see it. Jose when he did decide to play him earlier in the season wasn’t impressed at all and gave those rather scathing comments about his football brain and we didn’t see Shaw much again for months.
Got back in to the team and after some decent performances got praised to the heavens by Jose. Young regains fitness and gets back in and then Shaw doesn’t seem to be able to force himself back into contention for whatever reason.

Finally gets a chance the other night and doesn’t impress again and Jose loses patients with him completely(obviously having major doubts about him but knowing their is big potential in there) hooks him at half time and tells it like it is(or how he sees it) after trying tough love at the start, followed by an arm around the shoulder and high public praise.

He won’t be at Utd next season and to be honest, good riddance. The sort of player that isn’t needed at the club. Very talented but poor attitude/application.

There seems to be a few of them there.

Andrew Beef

bangkok wrote: »

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Players can underestimate the challenge ahead of them; United are a huge club, and much bigger than Arsenal. There is a lot more pressure at Old Trafford. Players are only human; Sanchez is probably thinking “but I’m so good, I have to show them!”. He’ll be fine in time. With Pogba though, the issue is terminal; he is a nothing player.

Ok Eamonn

Well you may laugh. Unfortunately, his performances have been no laughing matter. We spunked £89m on this guy. Sanchez will come good and Lukaku has been excellent. But Pogba? He is a nothing player, but there is nuance to that comment. If we were playing 5 aside street football and could pick any United player for our team, he’d be close to the top of the list. He’s clearly a great athlete and he has all of the physical attributes to be world class. Except the most important one; a football brain. He is not astute enough to be a central midfielder. He is not a winger either, nor is he a striker. Perhaps he could be a number 10, but I suspect not. He plays like a little dog running around Herbert Park without a care in the world. And sadly, he is a luxury that we cannot afford to keep; he should be shipped out and replaced with a Luka Modric type or even the man himself for the time being (notwithstanding the fact that he is 32).

~Rebel~

Turtwig wrote: »

Pardon to the analogy. It's like Balotelli. Every coach knows other coaches have had issues with him but they all see his potential and it's all too easy for them to be tempted into thinking they can effect change in the player's attitude.

It's a good point (though perhaps not the best example with a guy with 29 goals in his last 39 league games, and 6 in 6 in Europe this season )

GSPfan

Is Luke Shaw really a write off at the age of 22?

I think his lack of positional sense and everything else negative about him has been over exaggerated. It’s not like he’s been made a fool of week in and week out.

I feel like Pogba should be in the exact same boat as Shaw if we are writing players off for the criticisms Shaw is getting.

Andrew Beef

GSPfan wrote: »

I was only thinking earlier on about mental health in the workplace and it’s strange to think that Jose can do what he done to Luke Shaw and not at least have a call from the HR department. Football clubs are not run like normal businesses but you have Aaron Lennon admitting to his struggles and even Mertesacker talking about looking forward to retirement because of the pressure of it all.

I’ve heard it said (by Brian O’Driscoll actually) that sport is business without HR.

adox

GSPfan wrote: »

Is Luke Shaw really a write off at the age of 22?

I think his lack of positional sense and everything else negative about him has been over exaggerated. It’s not like he’s been made a fool of week in and week out.

I feel like Pogba should be in the exact same boat as Shaw if we are writing players off for the criticisms Shaw is getting.

Not a write off at all, just finished at Utd imo. He will probably have a good career elsewhere.

I was actually going to bring Pogba up and say he has been dropped recently for some of the same reasons that Jose dropped Shaw but I bang on about Pogba a lot so thought discretion was the better part of valor on this occasion.

bangkok

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Well you may laugh. Unfortunately, his performances have been no laughing matter. We spunked £89m on this guy. Sanchez will come good and Lukaku has been excellent. But Pogba? He is a nothing player, but there is nuance to that comment. If we were playing 5 aside street football and could pick any United player for our team, he’d be close to the top of the list. He’s clearly a great athlete and he has all of the physical attributes to be world class. Except the most important one; a football brain. He is not astute enough to be a central midfielder. He is not a winger either, nor is he a striker. Perhaps he could be a number 10, but I suspect not. He plays like a little dog running around Herbert Park without a care in the world. And sadly, he is a luxury that we cannot afford to keep; he should be shipped out and replaced with a Luka Modric type or even the man himself for the time being (notwithstanding the fact that he is 32).

the more i read some of the stuff you post, the more i think you are taking the p!ss

GSPfan

adox wrote: »

Not a write off at all, just finished at Utd imo. He will probably have a good career elsewhere.

I was actually going to bring Pogba up and say he has been dropped recently for some of the same reasons that Jose dropped Shaw but I bang on about Pogba a lot so thought discretion was the better part of valor on this occasion.

Ha. It’s strange because I feel like if we are being truthful then Shaw, Pogba, and Martial are guilty of the same criticisms but because Shaw has been publicly shamed it seems to have cemented those criticisms as facts.

I’ll admit I watched the match the other night with half an eye on the game and half on the youngfella’s train track but I didn’t see any problem with Shaw. In fact I think he done well to create space for Matic’s cross for the goal. Was he that bad? What did he do?

yabadabado

All three have had their problems but Shaw has done little to prove he is worth keeping and several managers have called into question his professionism.