The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

Kurtosis

citygal93 wrote: »

and do you know what these "180k abortions" are? Like, are they including taking the morning after pill (as i've seen in some places - wtf)

The report that these statistics come from are available here. From a brief read, the 180k does seem to only include actual terminations of pregnancy, and only for residents of England and Wales (or those giving a false address in England/Wales).

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January

....... wrote: »

Someone paid someone to print that.

And the same someone paid for it to be distributed.

Send it to a journalist and ask them to find out.

Actually - theres a bit cropped in your pic - Visit protectwomenprotec

post the website and we can do a whois

Not my image but I'll contact the owner and find out

Hammer Archer

January wrote: »

Hope thís posts. Some of the things being delivered with toy catalogues. Actually stuffed in the pages so as not to be immediately obvious.

Just so I'm clear, their line is "Allow women to choose not to have abortions in Ireland by not allowing any women to choose to have abortions in Ireland"?
Really?

seamus

It's probably protectwomenprotectlife but I can't find a .org, .com or .ie domain.

Most likely just another front for Cora Sherlock and the other loonies.

Their latest position of retreat is to try and call out to "pro-life feminism", to create the illusion that pro-choice groups have hijacked feminism and forced women to believe that they have to be pro-choice if they're feminists.

To give even the distributor the benefit of the doubt, most likely they just have a stack of stuff to be delivered that day, and where possible they stuff the smaller stuff into the bigger stuff to make it easier to distribute. And the rest of the century, it's OK that you have fast food leaflets and even Fianna Fail newsletters stuffed inside your toy catalogue.

In this case though, someone should have spotted the potential conflict before the stuff went out. Hopefully it means that this distributor (and others) will have a rethink about their policies when it comes to delivering political leaflets, and maybe group them into two-weekly drops, or force them to pay more to do a drop with just their material.

Zubeneschamali

seamus wrote: »

It's probably protectwomenprotectlife but I can't find a .org, .com or .ie domain.

https://protectwomenprotectthe8th.wordpress.com/

Protect The Amendment That Protects Women From Forced Abortions

Nice silhouette of a man beating up a woman at the top, repeated even bigger below.

Seems to be just a catch-and-refer to a facebook group https://www.facebook.com/ProtectWomenProtectThe8th.ie

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Nettle Soup

January wrote: »

Hope thís posts. Some of the things being delivered with toy catalogues. Actually stuffed in the pages so as not to be immediately obvious.

Wow!!

The person that compiled that is a complete weirdo!

Nobody will swallow that nonsense.

gctest50

....... wrote: »

Wordpress site so not really traceable - although its coming from San Francisco - so likely american money behind it.

Someone called Richard Quirke

Madscientist30

That is just shocking. But I suppose "kids need to hear about the reality" right? Zero boundaries or respect for anybody else.

What nonsense in the leaflet itself as well, I dont know how they think insulting people's intelligence with leaflets like that and targeting children are going to win voters over to their side. There can be no genuine love or compassion for humanity behind these tactics, and I think many people instinctively realise that now in a way they didnt 35 years ago, when there wasnt the same access to information and different experiences and viewpoints.

seamus

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

https://protectwomenprotectthe8th.wordpress.com/

Protect The Amendment That Protects Women From Forced Abortions

Nice silhouette of a man beating up a woman at the top, repeated even bigger below.

Seems to be just a catch-and-refer to a facebook group https://www.facebook.com/ProtectWomenProtectThe8th.ie

The domain is registered to a "Richard Quirke". Probably not of Dr. Quirkey's fame.

The fact that the page has basically nobody commenting or sharing on it suggests that it's just some lone soldier pouring his savings into it.

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Zubeneschamali

seamus wrote: »

The domain is registered to a "Richard Quirke". Probably not of Dr. Quirkey's fame.

The fact that the page has basically nobody commenting or sharing on it suggests that it's just some lone soldier pouring his savings into it.

I suspect the domestic violence silhouette graphics are lifted from a turkish domestic violence site.

No doubt with permission.

bertieinexile

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

bertieinexile wrote:

It's weird that they expect us to vote Yes to this thing. It's not the way people think. It's not how people are.

It's weird that you think it's weird when 56% of people surveyed say they plan to vote for it.

The B&A poll in the Sunday Times found that 43% were in favour of abortion on demand/request up to 12 weeks with 35% opposed. **
So not quite that clear cut to start with.

And then there were 22% who responded that they were undecided.
Here's what Richard Colwell of RedC said in the preface to their first poll.

... the strong figures for the Repeal side, assume that all undecided voters are the same as those that are decided, and that their votes will fall in the same proportion when they do make up their mind. A significant body of analyses conducted by RED C, over a series of referendums, suggests this often is not the case.

When voters are asked to change the constitution, but are not sure about whether change is a good idea, on the whole they tend to revert to the status quo. Simply expressed, this behaviour lies in the fact that people often decide it is better not to change something, if they themselves are not impacted by what is currently in place, and are also not sure if the alternative will be any better.

There is also the “shy” voter factor. This looks at the fact that when it is clear that the popular view is heading one way in a referendum, those voters with the opposing view become somewhat “shy” in telling people how they really feel. Most of the recent coverage on the 8th Amendment suggests a move toward the Repeal side, so if you don’t agree with that position you may become somewhat shy about saying so.

... In the Marriage Equality referendum .... it was clear that the majority of those claiming they were undecided in the final stages of the campaign actually ended up voting No.

Luckily we don't just have to take his word for it (or else I wouldn't have mentioned it) because in RedC's second poll they found the undecideds breaking six to one for No.

And then there's the fact that the poll above asked people how they felt about abortion on demand/request up to 12 weeks.
Let's hope May 25th isn't the first time people get asked how they feel about abortion on demand/request up to 24 weeks.




**(And the responses of women alone were almost exactly the same.)

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bertieinexile

FutureGuy wrote: »

zunbeneschemali wrote:

citygal93 wrote:

re: the "Love Both" posters which have been put up around Dublin now - they make a claim "1 in 5 babies in England are aborted".

It's based on #abortions vs. #live births.

~180K abortions, ~700K live births.

Yep, more absolute sh!te and unfortunately we live in a time when most voters will not question these facts.

Pardon?

bertieinexile

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Would you describe what they have in england as abortion on demand/request?
97% of those abortions are given on mental health grounds.
The legislation proposed for here would allow abortions on mental health grounds up to 24 weeks.

baylah17

bertieinexile wrote: »

FutureGuy wrote: »

zunbeneschemali wrote:

citygal93 wrote:

re: the "Love Both" posters which have been put up around Dublin now - they make a claim "1 in 5 babies in England are aborted".

It's based on #abortions vs. #live births.

~180K abortions, ~700K live births.

Yep, more absolute sh!te and unfortunately we live in a time when most voters will not question these facts.

Pardon?

No
You don't deserve a pardon

ohnonotgmail

bertieinexile wrote: »

Would you describe what they have in england as abortion on demand/request?
97% of those abortions are given on mental health grounds.
The legislation proposed for here would allow abortions on mental health grounds up to 24 weeks.

you have already been corrected on that several times.

JDD

I'm not entirely sure why people keep comparing us to the UK. The UK has four times our divorce rate. We've always been a more socially conservative nation.

Bertieinexile, whats the rate of abortions per live births in say, Spain or Italy - more comparable nations since they are historically catholic? How does that compare to our current abortion rate? I'd imagine ours is currently quite low, though it's probably based on UK numbers only. Our rate is probably a bit higher given the importation of pills.

ohnonotgmail

JDD wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure why people keep comparing us to the UK. The UK has four times our divorce rate. We've always been a more socially conservative nation.

Bertieinexile, whats the rate of abortions per live births in say, Spain or Italy - more comparable nations since they are historically catholic? How does that compare to our current abortion rate? I'd imagine ours is currently quite low, though it's probably based on UK numbers only. Our rate is probably a bit higher given the importation of pills.

all the abortion statistics you could ever hope for

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/index.html

Martina1991

bertieinexile wrote:

The legislation proposed for here would allow abortions on mental health grounds up to 24 weeks.

Stop lying.

Zubeneschamali

bertieinexile wrote: »

The B&A poll in the Sunday Times found that 43% were in favour of abortion on demand/request up to 12 weeks with 35% opposed.

Yes, which would be a 55-45% win for repeal if it stayed that way. Again, it is weird that you think 12 weeks is weird - it is clearly a very common, ordinary view.

The B&A question asking about voting intentions favours Yes by more: 49-27, with Yes holding steady and No softening by 3 since Feb, which would give an SSM-like 64-36 win, but as you say, we can expect the Don't Knows to break somewhat more for No than Yes. I would be very happy with a 55-45 win on the day.

Zubeneschamali

[QUOTE=ohnonotgmail;106626149http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/index.html[/QUOTE]

Spain similar to the UK in 2013: 400K live births, 100K abortions.
Italy somewhat lower, 480K births, 90K abortions. has been dropping steadily since 1985.

RobertKK

Cristiano Ronaldo's mother wanted to abort him as they were poor, but her doctor didn't support the decision. She said Cristiano knows and from her biography she said "He told me he found out, 'look mum, you wanted to abort and now I'm the one who's pulling the purse string in the house'"
She had a good doctor and it ended up transforming her life and that of her family.

RobertKK

Martina1991 wrote: »

Stop lying.

It actually does until the unborn is viable.

pleas advice

That doctor? Albert Einstein

SusieBlue

That's totally irrelevant. I know for a fact that at least one poster here will tell you herself she has no regrets and made the right choice for her family with her abortion.
Posting hyperbole about Ronaldo trying to tug at the heartstrings has absolutely nothing to do with whether Irish women should be allowed a choice or not.

Madscientist30

seamus wrote: »

It's probably protectwomenprotectlife but I can't find a .org, .com or .ie domain.

Most likely just another front for Cora Sherlock and the other loonies.

Their latest position of retreat is to try and call out to "pro-life feminism", to create the illusion that pro-choice groups have hijacked feminism and forced women to believe that they have to be pro-choice if they're feminists.

To give even the distributor the benefit of the doubt, most likely they just have a stack of stuff to be delivered that day, and where possible they stuff the smaller stuff into the bigger stuff to make it easier to distribute. And the rest of the century, it's OK that you have fast food leaflets and even Fianna Fail newsletters stuffed inside your toy catalogue.

In this case though, someone should have spotted the potential conflict before the stuff went out. Hopefully it means that this distributor (and others) will have a rethink about their policies when it comes to delivering political leaflets, and maybe group them into two-weekly drops, or force them to pay more to do a drop with just their material.

It is a Wordpress site I think. Protectwomenprotectthe8th.wordpress.com

Timberrrrrrrr

RobertKK wrote: »

Cristiano Ronaldo's mother wanted to abort him as they were poor, but her doctor didn't support the decision. She said Cristiano knows and from her biography she said "He told me he found out, 'look mum, you wanted to abort and now I'm the one who's pulling the purse string in the house'"
She had a good doctor and it ended up transforming her life and that of her family.

And your point Is?

Change the name Cristiano Ronaldo to Peter Sutcliffe, Harold Shipman or Charles Manson and tell us you would have still posted that pile of crap :rolleyes: