The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

kylith

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Kylith, I'd read that book! It has everything, romance, disappointment, drug addiction - I can see a mini series forming

Better copyright that PDQ so.

RobertKK

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

For every Ronaldo story there are a million Lynn Beisner stories

Here's a woman who wishes she had have been aborted.


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/aug/15/i-wish-my-mother-aborted-me

It is not emotional blackmail when a story is real, maybe it is emotional reality.
Why did the woman's parents and grandparents who were from well off backgrounds not support their daughter/granddaughter?

It sounds like the person had a mother who had useless parents who didn't teach their child properly and didn't care enough, and she took it out on her child.

It wasnt me123

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Hundreds of pages of people insulting each other and engaging in Olympian mental gymnastics. What a waste of time and energy in a context where each of you will only have one vote anyway :pac:

Insulting is a bit strong - disagreeing definitely but shure its only a bit of craic (the american Save the 8th posters are googling that right now).

You see my positive bonhomie might influence a Dont Know to vote repeal and the save the 8th nonsense - Robert KK is talking about saving Martian babies now - it just makes me laugh - so on a quiet day at work, its a win win for Repeal.

Repeal all the way - my one vote does count (also my husbands) so thats 2

RobertKK

January wrote: »

Ah now. Ah now lads. Someone print this and frame it. Quick.

Thanks.

You might not know what I am thanking you for but that doesn't matter.

Zubeneschamali

RobertKK wrote: »

It sounds like the person had a mother who had useless parents who didn't teach their child properly and didn't care enough, and she took it out on her child.

Probably never went to Mass except at Christmas. Serves them all right, I say.

(This thread gets better all the time!)

RobertKK

kylith wrote: »

What if the kid to make that discovery was already born, but she was raped when she was 16 and had to drop out of school to have the baby so she never went to college? What if because she dropped out of school she had to take a minimum wage job and her amazing mind was totally wasted because instead of being able to take 2 tablets 4 weeks into a pregnancy she had to have a child she wasn't able to properly care for and now instead of making an amazing scientific breakthrough she lives in a council flat and has a drinking problem because of her feeling of wasted potential and lost dreams coupled with PND and trauma from having to have her rapists baby, and the kid she was forced to have sets fire to stuff for fun and commits petty theft in the local Spar?

What if the kid did a nice gesture to someone who was feeling down and it was a time they needed someone to do a kind gesture for them.
Sometimes I think some people here must live miserable lives...it is so dark, maybe some are Irish Times journalists...

Timberrrrrrrr

RobertKK wrote: »

It is not emotional blackmail when a story is real, maybe it is emotional reality.
Why did the woman's parents and grandparents who were from well off backgrounds not support their daughter/granddaughter?

It sounds like the person had a mother who had useless parents who didn't teach their child properly and didn't care enough, and she took it out on her child.

If you had read the story you would know that the grandmother committed suicide.

Here's the reasons why

An abortion would have been best for me because there is no way that my love-starved, trauma-addled mother could have ever put me up for adoption. It was either abortion or raising me herself, and she was in no position to raise a child. She had suffered a traumatic brain injury, witnessed and experienced severe domestic violence, and while she was in grade school she was raped by a stranger and her mother committed suicide. She was severely depressed and suicidal,

kylith

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Robert KK is talking about saving Martian babies now -

Hang on, he could be onto something. If we insist that ALL the babies are born we could all stand on each other's shoulders and reach into space that way.

volchitsa

RobertKK wrote: »

We will be living on other planets and moons, people need to expand their minds to where human civilisation is headed.
An asteroid could easily wipe out most of the planet, maybe a supervolcano causing a volcanic winter like when Mount Toba erupted roughly 75,000 years ago.
Today's population could easily be mostly wiped out by natural causes, because the Earth has a history for wiping out at a lot of life in big events, In time the world's population will be far lower and there is nothing that can stop some natural events.
Humans have all their eggs in one basket on this planet, likewise some other human lives had their eggs in a woman who is for or against an abortion as a choice and it decided their outcome.

I have no idea how this is related to the fact that women need to be able to decide when or whether they are going to bring a new person into the world.

You seem to have wandered off into the realms of science fiction here, and I am at a loss as to how this can possibly relate to Savita Hallappanavar who needed a surgical termination but was refused one, or to the child who was put in a mental hospital instead of getting the abortion she asked for.

RobertKK

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Probably never went to Mass except at Christmas. Serves them all right, I say.

(This thread gets better all the time!)

That is non relateable to the story I had to reply to, where the parents and grandparents were professors and their daughter/granddaughter living in poverty and having a baby and then abusing that child...and that is your reply to my reply to that story...
Is your message: repeal the 8th is a joke?

Zubeneschamali

RobertKK wrote: »

Is your message: repeal the 8th is a joke?

No, but you are very close!

January

RobertKK wrote: »

That is non relateable to the story I had to reply to, where the parents and grandparents were professors and their daughter/granddaughter living in poverty and having a baby and then abusing that child...and that is your reply to my reply to that story...
Is your message: repeal the 8th is a joke?

Where in that story does it say the child was abused? Where does it say the grandparents were professors and refused to help their child living in poverty?

What if the parents also lived in poverty but the girl had worked hard up to the point and then fell into the same poverty hole her parents because she became pregnant?

Madscientist30

RobertKK wrote: »

volchitsa wrote: »

So in a world of, what is it, 9 billion people now?, and stretched to the limit of earth's resources, we need millions, possibly billions more people, because one of those as yet unborn people might make a discovery that would save the planet?

Is that really your argument?

We will be living on other planets and moons, people need to expand their minds to where human civilisation is headed.
An asteroid could easily wipe out most of the planet, maybe a supervolcano causing a volcanic winter like when Mount Toba erupted roughly 75,000 years ago.
Today's population could easily be mostly wiped out by natural causes, because the Earth has a history for wiping out at a lot of life in big events, In time the world's population will be far lower and there is nothing that can stop some natural events.
Humans have all their eggs in one basket on this planet, likewise some other human lives had their eggs in a woman who is for or against an abortion as a choice and it decided their outcome.

And the 8th amendment is the solution for that is it? Maybe the Pro-Lifers could divert some of their American cash mountain to a space program

RobertKK

Madscientist30 wrote: »

And the 8th amendment is the solution for that is it? Maybe the Pro-Lifers could divert some of their American cash mountain to a space program

Maybe George Soros will, he likes to fund things.

January

RobertKK wrote: »

Maybe George Soros will, he likes to fund things.

LOL.

I'll get onto George and ask him where the money for our posters is... he seems to be a bit late with a payment...

NuMarvel

RobertKK wrote: »

Maybe George Soros will, he likes to fund things.

The difference is the Open Society Foundation is open about what they fund, whereas the funders of pro life groups are a bit more... clandestine. To put it mildly.

OldNotWIse

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Insulting is a bit strong - disagreeing definitely but shure its only a bit of craic (the american Save the 8th posters are googling that right now).

You see my positive bonhomie might influence a Dont Know to vote repeal and the save the 8th nonsense - Robert KK is talking about saving Martian babies now - it just makes me laugh - so on a quiet day at work, its a win win for Repeal.

Repeal all the way - my one vote does count (also my husbands) so thats 2

Well that's mine and my OH's No votes cancelled out

I don't imagine many people will be sourcing advice on how to exercise their right to vote from Boards... not least because the pages and pages of hyperbole, semantics and repetition might put them off.

NuMarvel

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Well that's mine and my OH's No votes cancelled out

I don't imagine many people will be sourcing advice on how to exercise their right to vote from Boards... not least because the pages and pages of hyperbole, semantics and repetition might put them off.

To say nothing of the smarmy "I'm so above all of this" posts. They're the worst.

It wasnt me123

True OldNotWise but they may get some info from here. Believe it or not, I'm not on many forums and didn't know about the InHerShoes FB page only for seeing it here. Now I've like it and sharing the stories on that site - so forums/social media can help - but I don't think Bertie or RobertKK are for turning - its the martians fault.

.......

This post has been deleted.

JDD

I have a similar story to Lynn Beisner. Not as bad as hers, by a long shot, but similar.

My best mate in school suffered from depression. It took a long time to get a diagnosis, and even then her medication didn't seem to do much. When we were 20 she fell pregnant. She, and her mother, were very catholic and although they didn't have a great relationship (her mother was, and still is, an alcoholic) they sat down and talked about what should she do. Really, everything pointed towards an abortion. She was too young, she was still in university, and most of all, she was mentally ill. They booked into a clinic in Manchester and everything. And then her mother was listening to something on the Gay Byrne radio show about abortion the morning they were due to take the plane. Her mother, not being the most stable person in the world, changed her mind and pleaded with my friend not to go through with it - that they, her parents, would support her financially and assist her in the raising the kid. My friend was relieved to be honest. She was catholic, she believed abortion was a sin.

So she gave birth to a girl. I won't go into minute detail, but her parents were lets say "erratic" with their assistance in raising the kid. Basically they were great during the period the grandmother was sober. But there were long periods - months, years, that she fell off the wagon. To be fair to them, they did support her financially.

My friend wasn't a good mother. God love her, she tried her best but her mental illness meant that she was very vulnerable to abusive relationships. Relationships that were also abusive to her daughter. I only found this out years later. Her mother continued to suffer bouts of severe depression, was in and out of hospital, and the illness eventually killed her two years ago.

Her daughter, my goddaughter, I don't know that well. Myself and my friend fell out when her daughter was six and we never fully mended our relationship. She appears to be okay, but has regularly attended counselling since her mid-teens to try and process her childhood. She admits herself that her mother should never have been a mother. It takes a brave person to admit that your mother might have been better off without you.

Looking back, adoption was never even considered. I suppose they duped themselves that maybe with the right treatment my friend could have made a go of parenthood. I suspect that, given they were well off, it would have been difficult to explain to family and friends that they were not going to raise the child that my friend was pregnant with. Mental illness was still quite taboo at the time, and I don't think that would have been offered easily as an explanation.

Anyway, my point is, as nice a person as my goddaughter is, I firmly believe my friend would have been better off if she had not had the burden of being a parent so young. She might have finished university. She might have avoided some of the abusive relationships that she entered into in the misguided attempt to provide a father for her daughter.

Of course, she was catholic and had she felt she had no choice but to have an abortion maybe that would have sent her into a tailspin of guilt and depression too. But I really don't accept that as an argument. What if the church didn't have a ruling that life begins at conception? I don't think it's in the bible anywhere. If she didn't believe it was a sin, she wouldn't have felt any guilt, and it wouldn't have had a negative affect on her.

Anyway, that's not the main reason I'm pro-choice. But it might provide a bit of information for people who may never have known someone who has had a crisis pregnancy.

NuMarvel

NuMarvel wrote: »

The difference is the Open Society Foundation is open about what they fund, whereas the funders of pro life groups are a bit more... clandestine. To put it mildly.

Yep and with questionable accounting and reporting practices that would make some politicians envious.

Rjd2

Been out of the news recently, any polls in last few days regarding this?:o

Sorry if lazy:P

thee glitz

January wrote: »

I'll get onto George and ask him where the money for our posters is... he seems to be a bit late with a payment...

He gave it to Amnesty International.

thee glitz

thee glitz wrote: »

He gave it to Amnesty International.

Just a reminder we're still waiting on links etc to prove your statement that the repeal side are using rape victims and FFA suffers as a happy convenience for unlimited abortion.

thee glitz

DubInMeath wrote: »

Just a reminder we're still waiting on links etc to prove your statement that the repeal side are using rape victims and FFA suffers as a happy convenience for unlimited abortion.

Why would I need links to show that? Though there was one pro-choicer around here who expressed being a little uncomfortable with the hypocrisy of it. Would you prioritise ensuring the availability of abortion in cases where it's genuinely needed / warranted over for those who request it for no reason?

baylah17

thee glitz wrote: »

DubInMeath wrote: »

Just a reminder we're still waiting on links etc to prove your statement that the repeal side are using rape victims and FFA suffers as a happy convenience for unlimited abortion.

Why would I need links to show that? Though there was one pro-choicer around here who expressed being a little uncomfortable with the hypocrisy of it. Would you prioritise ensuring the availability of abortion in cases where it's genuinely needed / warranted over for those who request it for no reason?

No need to prioritise
Womans choice
A woman's right
Nobody else's business
Dimples!

baylah17

Simples

January

thee glitz wrote: »

He gave it to Amnesty International.

Ah that explains it. Amnesty have nothing to do with the national campaign.

thee glitz

thee glitz wrote: »

Why would I need links to show that? Though there was one pro-choicer around here who expressed being a little uncomfortable with the hypocrisy of it. Would you prioritise ensuring the availability of abortion in cases where it's genuinely needed / warranted over for those who request it for no reason?

Grand so you've clarified that your making statements as facts without being able to back them up?

Good to know