The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

Also we already have restrictive laws in place and will most likely still will with a ban on late abortions

amdublin

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Your methods are... different... :pac:

It made me laugh out loud which isn't a bad thing at all

frag420

amdublin wrote: »

It made me laugh out loud which isn't a bad thing at all

The funny thing is is that this is what will happen for many an undecided voter out there in the days and hours before they vote and many will go with the last opinion/anecdote they heard....

It wasnt me123

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I genuinely dont believe Robert and Bertie are the same person. The posting style is not the same at all. There are a lot of people in Ireland like Robert and Bertie who think pro life. I actually really wouldnt label some of the pro life people here as rereg trolls.

Sorry I wasn't clear enough. What I meant was Bertie, RobertKK and thee glitz are on a roster - 3 different people - one poster seems to post prolife stuff for 2 or 3 hours, then they disappear and another prolife poster posts for a period of time, then they disappear and another prolife poster comes on. To me it looks like a co-ordinated roster.

Now I could be talking to the birds like RobertKK (he's talking to martians apparently) but thats how it seems to me.

thee glitz

DubInMeath wrote: »

thee glitz wrote: »

So what is the appetite to legislate for stricter laws than proposed around here?

What's this got to do with your statement that rape victims, FFA are a happy convenience for people wanting repeal

If the proposed legislation was stricter than it is ie. not allowing for abortion for no reason, but dependent on an assessment of reasonability, then there would be more support for repeal, making it more likely that abortion would be made available where deemed 'required'. Instead, we see the case for abortion for any / no reason pushed as necessary to ensure that those who do reasonably need it have it available.

it would appear that you don't have much in the way of compassion for them.

I'd like to see stricter proposed legislation than there is so that more people would be comfortable about voting to repeal, hope I've changed your opinion of me.

baylah17

thee glitz wrote: »

DubInMeath wrote: »

thee glitz wrote: »

So what is the appetite to legislate for stricter laws than proposed around here?

What's this got to do with your statement that rape victims, FFA are a happy convenience for people wanting repeal

If the proposed legislation was stricter than it is ie. not allowing for abortion for no reason, but dependent on an assessment of reasonability, then there would be more support for repeal, making it more likely that abortion would be made available where deemed 'required'. Instead, we see the case for abortion for any / no reason pushed as necessary to ensure that those who do reasonably need it have it available.

it would appear that you don't have much in the way of compassion for them.

I'd like to see stricter proposed legislation than there is so that more people would be comfortable about voting to repeal, hope I've changed your opinion of me.

No woman should be required to give a bizxybody like you a reason for exercising her right to bodily autonomy.
Her body her rights her business
#trustwomen

ohnonotgmail

thee glitz wrote: »

If the proposed legislation was stricter than it is ie. not allowing for abortion for no reason, but dependent on an assessment of reasonability, then there would be more support for repeal, making it more likely that abortion would be made available where deemed 'required'. Instead, we see the case for abortion for any / no reason pushed as necessary to ensure that those who do reasonably need it have it available.




I'd like to see stricter proposed legislation than there is so that more people would be comfortable about voting to repeal, hope I've changed your opinion of me.

reasonable to who, exactly? to you? why should anybody apart from the woman involved get a say?

Ave Sodalis

thee glitz wrote: »

I
I'd like to see stricter proposed legislation than there is so that more people would be comfortable about voting to repeal, hope I've changed your opinion of me.

It was only a few pages ago you were saying that pro-choice were telling children born from rape to kill themselves, and that pro-choice think rape cases themselves are a happy convenience. I don't for one second believe that you are in any way interested in trying to get the 8th repealed.

thee glitz

thee glitz wrote: »

If the proposed legislation was stricter than it is ie. not allowing for abortion for no reason, but dependent on an assessment of reasonability, then there would be more support for repeal, making it more likely that abortion would be made available where deemed 'required'. Instead, we see the case for abortion for any / no reason pushed as necessary to ensure that those who do reasonably need it have it available.




I'd like to see stricter proposed legislation than there is so that more people would be comfortable about voting to repeal, hope I've changed your opinion of me.

Any woman who chooses to have an abortion will have a reason to do so and I don't believe it would be a trivial matter to them to do so, so I don't see where your getting your abortion for no reason argument from. What' exactly is no reason in your opinion?

I would hope most sensible people have no issue with a woman obtaining an abortion for her own personal reasons within the purposes 12 week time frame.

Simi

thee glitz wrote: »

If the proposed legislation was stricter than it is ie. not allowing for abortion for no reason, but dependent on an assessment of reasonability...

An assessment of responsibility? Are you suggesting we form tribunals to adjudicate how worthy a woman is of receiving medical care?

What would be the level of proof a woman would need to provide to satisfy YOU that she is deserving of an abortion? Would women need to provide bank statements, character references, medical records, evidence of contraceptive use?

No woman wakes up in the morning and decides 'oh I think I'll have an abortion today for no reason.' She has a reason and that's all that matters. She should never have to explain it or justify it to people like you.

Billy86

DubInMeath wrote: »

Any woman who chooses to have an abortion will have a reason to do so and I don't believe it would be a trivial matter to them to do so, so I don't see where your getting your abortion for no reason argument from. What' exactly is no reason in your opinion?

I would hope most sensible people have no issue with a woman obtaining an abortion for her own personal reasons within the purposes 12 week time frame.

Well, your first mistake was assuming women are able to think for themselves. Clearly they are not. Therefore, choice is a bad thing. The silly girls will go and get abortions for no reason, not even knowing why they are doing it a bit like buy an iPod when they first came around, then will regret it for the rest of their lives. We men need to save them from their own delicate minds and thick skulls you see, and they will thank us for it when that little bump on their bellies is being sent to it's very first foster home.

I think that should clear the matter up.

Thanks Billy, you just proved to the wife that she has the wrong opinion of me and I'm actually very trusting of all people and a bit naive :-)

thee glitz

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Do you really think that there cam ever be a situation of "no reason" for having an abortion?

I'd say 'I just want to' is equivalent to 'no reason', certainty a subset of 'no good reason'.

Do you have children?

Not sure - I've 1 so?

Do you know people with children?

I know at least 3 people who have kids.

Any child, no matter how wanted upends every aspect of a woman's life, both during pregnancy and afterwards.

Yes - that's being a parent.

Not wanting to be pregnant is a very good reason for wanting an abortion as is not wanting to have a child.

Not wanting to be pregnant or have a child explains why you'd want an abortion. But how can you justify it?

Are you so dismissive of women's hopes, dreams, lives and struggles that you can call not wanting to be pregnant no reason?

My boss, her boss, are women, doing a great job - I wouldn't class myself as a misogynist.

baylah17

thee glitz wrote: »

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Do you really think that there cam ever be a situation of "no reason" for having an abortion?

I'd say 'I just want to' is equivalent to 'no reason', certainty a subset of 'no good reason'.

Do you have children?

Not sure - I've 1 so?

Do you know people with children?

I know at least 3 people who have kids.

Any child, no matter how wanted upends every aspect of a woman's life, both during pregnancy and afterwards.

Yes - that's being a parent.

Not wanting to be pregnant is a very good reason for wanting an abortion as is not wanting to have a child.

Not wanting to be pregnant or have a child explains why you'd want an abortion. But how can you justify it?

Are you so dismissive of women's hopes, dreams, lives and struggles that you can call not wanting to be pregnant no reason?

My boss, her boss, are women, doing a great job - I wouldn't class myself as a misogynist.

The misogynistic arrogance of you demanding that any woman "justify" her decision.
Who do you think you are to demand any woman justify her decision to small minded bizzybodies like you
How does my wife or daughters decisions become any of your business?
#rejectmisogyny
Embrace Repeal

thee glitz

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

It was only a few pages ago you were saying that pro-choice were telling children born from rape to kill themselves

I never did. Got issues?

erica74

Has anyone seen any prochoice posters or anything around where they live? I live just outside Waterford City and I haven't seen a single prochoice poster. All I see are those 3 stupid vans driving around with their antichoice nonsense on the sides.

baylah17

erica74 wrote: »

Has anyone seen any prochoice posters or anything around where they live? I live just outside Waterford City and I haven't seen a single prochoice poster. All I see are those 3 stupid vans driving around with their antichoice nonsense on the sides.

No
I live in Dublin 14 and see nothing but the anti-woman posters,

Edward M

erica74 wrote: »

Has anyone seen any prochoice posters or anything around where they live? I live just outside Waterford City and I haven't seen a single prochoice poster. All I see are those 3 stupid vans driving around with their antichoice nonsense on the sides.

Nothing around Cavan or Longford either that I've noticed.
The only thing I've encountered so far are people handing out pro life leaflets after a football match in Cavan.

Zerbini Blewitt

Are you so dismissive of women's hopes, dreams, lives and struggles that you can call not wanting to be pregnant no reason?

thee glitz wrote: »

My boss, her boss, are women, doing a great job - I wouldn't class myself as a misogynist.

Of course, you wouldn’t. I’d say not a single pro-lifer in the country believes he/she is a misogynist – even those who would be of the view that the death of a woman is not sufficient grounds for allowing an abortion.

Those who are not pro-life (not pro forced-incubation) can clearly see that all pro-lifers (even the mildest) are misogynists (re: first trimester).

One either believes that a woman has the rights of any citizen that have evolved over the past 1,000 years of history or you believe she becomes state property or a vessel who must be discriminated against and have important rights & protections stripped away from the moment a pregnancy test result comes in.

It is a binary thing; There is no wriggle room.

Annasopra

erica74 wrote: »

Has anyone seen any prochoice posters or anything around where they live? I live just outside Waterford City and I haven't seen a single prochoice poster. All I see are those 3 stupid vans driving around with their antichoice nonsense on the sides.

The national campaign has no posters up anywhere yet for various reasons.

It wasnt me123

Nothing in Clonmel either that I can see.

What I have come across online is the Together for Yes FB pages - I'm liking them all, spreading the truth that way. I'm particularly delighted to see older people, who voted for this amendment in 1983, now being prochoice as they see the misery that the amendment has caused.

Repeal all the way = no busybody has any say in my body autonomy

Ave Sodalis

thee glitz wrote: »

I never did. Got issues?

Yes, you did.

thee glitz wrote: »

did you ask them why they haven't killed themselves yet?

What issues do you think I have, exactly?

bertieinexile

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Is it just me and if so I'll delete the post, but say when Bertie stops posting, Robert KK comes in and when he goes out another one comes in to post. Its like they're on a roster 10 till 2 Bertie, 2 to 6 RobertKK, then Bertie is back and then.....

Is that 10 o'clock Irish time or 10 o'clock in New York?

citygal93

Article in today's independent on this: 'This is completely unacceptable' - Toy shop apologises as abortion referendum material delivered inside catalogues

Zubeneschamali

baylah17 wrote: »

No woman should be required to give a bizxybody like you a reason for exercising her right to bodily autonomy.

I am not a big Varadkar fan, but I did like this quote on how abortion will be after the 8th is repealed:

"No longer an article of our Constitution, but rather a private and personal matter for women and doctors".

thee glitz

baylah17 wrote: »

No woman should be required to give a bizxybody like you a reason for exercising her right to bodily autonomy.
Her body her rights her business
#trustwomen

trustwomen what? The logical conclusion from your post, and previous, is that you're against any restrictions on abortion. I appreciate that, unlike many, you answered my question.

erica74

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

The national campaign has no posters up anywhere yet for various reasons.

What are the various reasons?

SusieBlue

thee glitz wrote: »

I'd say 'I just want to' is equivalent to 'no reason', certainty a subset of 'no good reason'.


Not sure - I've 1 so?



I know at least 3 people who have kids.


Yes - that's being a parent.



Not wanting to be pregnant or have a child explains why you'd want an abortion. But how can you justify it?



My boss, her boss, are women, doing a great job - I wouldn't class myself as a misogynist.

Just because a crisis pregnancy hasn't knocked on your door yet, doesn't mean it never will.
I can say with total confidence that there will be a day where you will be glad that people like me voted Yes for people like you.

Zubeneschamali

thee glitz wrote: »

So what is the appetite to legislate for stricter laws than proposed around here?

From pro-choice people? Zero. The proposed legislation is already a compromise between the pro-choice side and the more conservative on the Citizen's Assembly:

48% have recommended that the termination of pregnancy without restriction should be lawful up to 12 weeks gestation age only.
44 % have recommended that the termination of pregnancy without restriction should be lawful up to 22 weeks’ gestation age only.
8% have recommended that the termination of pregnancy with no restriction to gestational age.

The pro-life crew seem to be betting the house on defeating the amendment in the Referendum. I have not heard word one from their side about the legislation to follow.

If they lose the referendum, it will be hard for them to fight on given that the outline of the legislation has been well-flagged and will effectively be authorised by the Yes vote.

January

erica74 wrote: »

What are the various reasons?

Lack of funds is the main one.