The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

.......

This post has been deleted.

Experience_day

SusieBlue wrote: »

Just because a crisis pregnancy hasn't knocked on your door yet, doesn't mean it never will.
I can say with total confidence that there will be a day where you will be glad that people like me voted Yes for people like you.

I can say with total confidence that it's pretty arrogant (and also wrong) for you to assume that's the case.

rainbow kirby

Experience_day wrote: »

I can say with total confidence that it's pretty arrogant (and also wrong) for you to assume that's the case.

People who say that are being blatantly ignorant of the implications of the 8th in continued pregnancy. It affects every pregnant person regardless of whether the pregnancy is a crisis or the most wanted and planned thing ever.

erica74

Experience_day wrote: »

I can say with total confidence that it's pretty arrogant (and also wrong) for you to assume that's the case.

It's pretty arrogant and ignorant for anyone to think they will never be affected by a crisis pregnancy (and crisis pregnancies can be both unwanted and wanted), however, that is the impression you get from antichoice people.
A lot of antichoice people say with absolute certainty "I'd never abort a baby conceived through rape or incest" which is not something you can ever know unless you are in the situation.
A lot of antichoice people say with absolute certainty "I would continue with a pregnancy even if I knew my baby was suffering and dying inside me" which, again, is not something you can ever know unless you are in the situation.
That is arrogance and ignorance.

baylah17

thee glitz wrote: »

trustwomen what? The logical conclusion from your post, and previous, is that you're against any restrictions on abortion. I appreciate that, unlike many, you answered my question.

Oh I do believe in restrictions.
I firmly believe that no woman should be compelled to have an abortion against her will in the same way that i firmly believe that no woman should be compelled to carry an unwanted pregnancy against her will.
You see I trust women and I believe in their right to choose whats best for them, unlike you!

.......

This post has been deleted.

PhoenixParker

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

This bears repeating and emphasis.

The 8th doesn't just affect those seeking abortion, it hangs as a dark cloud over every pregnant woman in Ireland and daily affects the health and wellbeing of women with wanted pregnancies.

Savita didn't want an abortion, she wanted a baby. When she had a miscarriage, the 8th combined with medical incompetence resulted in her death. Without the 8th the way forward would have been 100% clear cut. It could happen to any woman.

Every day the treatment and management of miscarriage is impeded by the 8th.

Every day women's lives are put at risk by the 8th. There is no simple line a doctor or judge can draw "life at risk" to make life saving decisions. When they get it wrong, women die.

Repealing the 8th is 100 times more important than any abortion legislation.

seamus

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Even then, you never know what's going to knock on your door tomorrow, never mind in 10 or twenty years time.

You could a complete loner, in your fifties, only child of two only children, sworn to celibacy and with crippling social anxiety. And apparently the eighth will never affect you.

But one can't say that you won't one day make a close friend of a young woman who later finds herself in a crisis pregnancy.

To say the eighth will never affect you is to be completely naive is short-sighted.

I would wager a large bet that every single person in this country - man and woman - knows at least one woman who has been affected by the eighth amendment.

Not just that they may have had to travel for an abortion, but that their treatment options for a failing pregnancy were curtailed, or the decisions around delivery were made for them by midwives and doctors, or that they simply had to have doctors use innuendo and hushed tones when discussing what should be crystal clear and unambiguous medical information.

Even all the young men saying, "It will never affect me", should go and have a chat to their mothers. I can guarantee you there's a lot she has never told you about her pregnancy(ies).

SusieBlue

Experience_day wrote: »

I can say with total confidence that it's pretty arrogant (and also wrong) for you to assume that's the case.

Completely disagree. The 8th affects every single child bearing aged woman in Ireland.

I'm imagining any sane person watching a loved one, be it a sister, wife, daughter, or friend, suffering in a state of distress.
Her health, well being, or even life is at risk. And I'm just not talking about abortion here, I'm including crisis's that occur during WANTED pregnancies as well.

You love that person, so you would do anything to help them. That will be the day the No voters will be glad of the Yes voters. They will be thankful the person they love can be helped.

Because that's exactly the problem with the anti-choicers, they can't see beyond the end of their noses. Its all about them, their morals, and their beliefs. Their sense of what's right and what's wrong.
They don't care about any one else's.

But as has been proved time and time again, they think its a "special case" when someone THEY love is in need. They would want exceptions to be made for THEIR loved one.
But they don't care about anyone else - their morals and beliefs are more important than someone else's daughter.

.......

This post has been deleted.

Annasopra

erica74 wrote: »

What are the various reasons?

Budgeting (leaflets, merchandise, online campaigns have to get spending prority early on in campaign), Lack of understanding of electoral law (mistakenly thinking the 30 day rule for elections applied to referenda), lack of money (national campaign simply has very little money)

Triceratops Ballet

PhoenixParker wrote: »

This bears repeating and emphasis.

The 8th doesn't just affect those seeking abortion, it hangs as a dark cloud over every pregnant woman in Ireland and daily affects the health and wellbeing of women with wanted pregnancies.

Savita didn't want an abortion, she wanted a baby. When she had a miscarriage, the 8th combined with medical incompetence resulted in her death. Without the 8th the way forward would have been 100% clear cut. It could happen to any woman.

Every day the treatment and management of miscarriage is impeded by the 8th.

Every day women's lives are put at risk by the 8th. There is no simple line a doctor or judge can draw "life at risk" to make life saving decisions. When they get it wrong, women die.

Repealing the 8th is 100 times more important than any abortion legislation.

More than this, the 8th impacts all aspects of maternity care in Ireland

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/irish-maternity-system-is-like-a-production-line-35581158.html

Sofiztikated

Edward M wrote: »

Nothing around Cavan or Longford either that I've noticed.
The only thing I've encountered so far are people handing out pro life leaflets after a football match in Cavan.

Cavan town has been littered with Save posters since at least Saturday. In fact, I think they went up the morning after the campaign was "official."

You'd think all those bazillions George and Murder Factory Clinics are pumping into this, and stand to make from this, there'd be a few Repeal things.

amdublin

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Savita didn't want an abortion, she wanted a baby. When she had a miscarriage, the 8th combined with medical incompetence resulted in her death. Without the 8th the way forward would have been 100% clear cut. It could happen to any woman.

I was crying after reading the first 9 words of this paragraph

#neveragain
Repeal the 8th

posturingpat

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Cavan town has been littered with Save posters since at least Saturday. In fact, I think they went up the morning after the campaign was "official."

You'd think all those bazillions George and Murder Factory Clinics are pumping into this, and stand to make from this, there'd be a few Repeal things.

I'm friends with someone involved in the pro choice campaign in Cavan and he's got my news feed filled with pictures of Posters/leaflets/t shirts, Canvassing etc

It wasnt me123

posturingpat wrote: »

I'm friends with someone involved in the pro choice campaign in Cavan and he's got my news feed filled with pictures of Posters/leaflets/t shirts, Canvassing etc

I'm sure my friends are feeling your pain as I've liked all the Together for Yes FB pages and InYourShoes FB page.

Repeal all the way but we need to advertise and promote pro choice

_Dara_

erica74 wrote: »

Has anyone seen any prochoice posters or anything around where they live? I live just outside Waterford City and I haven't seen a single prochoice poster. All I see are those 3 stupid vans driving around with their antichoice nonsense on the sides.

I'm okay with this. Election/referendum posters are such eyesores and piss a lot of people off. I lived in the UK during a general election and the difference between the UK and Ireland is stark in this regard. Hopefully, the pro-life posters will put some people off voting that way.

NuMarvel

The No side in the marriage equality referendum were first to get posters up to, and there was talk from some quarters that this showed they were the more prepared side, etc. In the end though, the tone and messaging worked against them, and I think there's potential for the same to happen for the No side in this referendum too.

That said, if you want to see more Yes side posters, then donate to the yes group because they don't have a lot of money (despite what some would like to say) and posters aren't cheap.

kylith

PhoenixParker wrote: »

the 8th doesn't just affect those seeking abortion, it hangs as a dark cloud over every pregnant woman in Ireland and daily affects the health and wellbeing of women with wanted pregnancies.

Very true.

For example: my SiL lives in the U.K. following a difficult labour with her 2nd child they wanted to induce her 2 weeks before her due date with her youngest. She refused, and the child was born with no issues, a perfectly average weight, 2 weeks after the due date. If they had induced her when they wanted the infant would have been absolutely tiny, with all the issues that come with that. Had she lived in Ireland it would not have been ‘we would like to’ it would have been ‘we are going to’ and if she refused she could have been brought to court to force her to be induced early against her will.

erica74

_Dara_ wrote: »

I'm okay with this. Election/referendum posters are such eyesores and piss a lot of people off. I lived in the UK during a general election and the difference between the UK and Ireland is stark in this regard. Hopefully, the pro-life posters will put some people off voting that way.

I'm not mad about them myself. I was moreso just wondering because of the 3 antichoice vans that I see around Waterford, it just got me thinking, what about the prochoice side.

shesty

I actually think allowing politicians to vote personally and outside the party whip has made the no side's job harder.
When it comes down to your local TD having to give their personal feelinhn on the topic, suddenly choice, logic and debate enter the picture, which goes against the absolute dogma of "No abortion", with no.real back--up argument.Suddenly those who are a shade of grey on the topic have to start listening and thinking about the debate.
I'm actually finding it has changed the whole tone of the discussion, in a mature way.

Nettle Soup

NuMarvel wrote: »

The No side in the marriage equality referendum were first to get posters up to, and there was talk from some quarters that this showed they were the more prepared side, etc. In the end though, the tone and messaging worked against them, and I think there's potential for the same to happen for the No side in this referendum too.

Agree completely. Going overly strong too early makes their campaign look bossy and intimidating. Paddy doesn't like that.

I think repeal will win. Otherwise we will have 10-15 more years before people see sense.

rainbow kirby

kylith wrote: »

Very true.

For example: my SiL lives in the U.K. following a difficult labour with her 2nd child they wanted to induce her 2 weeks before her due date with her youngest. She refused, and the child was born with no issues, a perfectly average weight, 2 weeks after the due date. If they had induced her when they wanted the infant would have been absolutely tiny, with all the issues that come with that. Had she lived in Ireland it would not have been ‘we would like to’ it would have been ‘we are going to’ and if she refused she could have been brought to court to force her to be induced early against her will.

I had my two boys in the UK. Everything is presented as an offer - I was induced with my second at 38 weeks, we were offered the choice of starting induction on the spot, the following day or having monitoring every day or two instead when I went to maternity triage at 37+6 after a second bout of reduced movements. No compulsion in any particular choice. Same thing with any tests in pregnancy - you can decline whatever you want even against medical advice.

Annasopra

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

I'm sure my friends are feeling your pain as I've liked all the Together for Yes FB pages and InYourShoes FB page.

Repeal all the way but we need to advertise and promote pro choice

Donate. Donate. Donate.

It wasnt me123

shesty wrote: »

I actually think allowing politicians to vote personally and outside the party whip has made the no side's job harder.
When it comes down to your local TD having to give their personal feelinhn on the topic, suddenly choice, logic and debate enter the picture, which goes against the absolute dogma of "No abortion", with no.real back--up argument........

Unless you're in Mattie McGrath's constituency - there is no reasoning with him, its Catholic dogma all the way with him. Frustrating because he is actually a very good local politician, gets things done, his office responds efficiently to issues - he just has blinkers on when it comes to Catholic dogma.

Repeal all the way - no paedo hypocrite priest has the right to comment on my reproduction system

It wasnt me123

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Donate. Donate. Donate.

I can't, just started a new business and no money for marketing, let alone donations.

But silver linings and all that

I have time on my hands at the moment, while my business builds, to go on social media, like all the pages I want to, respond to posts when I feel like it (with my repeal all the way) and promote the yes vote.

So I can't give money but I can promote electronically.

January

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

I can't, just started a new business and no money for marketing, let alone donations.

But silver linings and all that

I have time on my hands at the moment, while my business builds, to go on social media, like all the pages I want to, respond to posts when I feel like it (with my repeal all the way) and promote the yes vote.

So I can't give money but I can promote electronically.

Promote locally too if you can local groups are running stalls and canvasses and events take part!

PhoenixParker

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

I can't, just started a new business and no money for marketing, let alone donations.

But silver linings and all that

I have time on my hands at the moment, while my business builds, to go on social media, like all the pages I want to, respond to posts when I feel like it (with my repeal all the way) and promote the yes vote.

So I can't give money but I can promote electronically.

If you have time, give that.
Get involved and manage a social media account.
Go out and canvas, distribute leaflets or put the posters up.

Liking stuff on Facebook is ok, but it's codding yourself if you think it'll make any difference.

frag420

Are those of us living outside Ireland allowed to donate?

Just out of a lunch meeting with my CEO here, I have convinced them to make a sizeable donation (from our charity fund) but it would be under my and several colleagues names and split up accordingly under each name so that it is not flagged!? All colleagues are Irish nationals living abroad but have Irish addresses and will be voting come May!

Any ideas on where we stand?

thee glitz

baylah17 wrote: »

Oh I do believe in restrictions.

i firmly believe that no woman should be compelled to carry an unwanted pregnancy against her will.

To a point though, restricted, like you believe in?
[/quote]