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The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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    #3782
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    Abortion is happening anyway. Thousands of women go to England, and unknown amount order the pill online, and an unknown (though thankfully less than before) self induce an abortion through dangerous means. Thinking otherwise is just burying your head in the sand.

    So?
    It is in the English media about English women seeking abortion pills illegally online.
    One might as well argue cigarettes should be legal because people are buying illegal cigarettes, oh wait...they are legal and they kill people...


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    #3783
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #3784
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    RobertKK wrote: »
    False, what the yes side wants is to avoid talking about the unborn, it is like the elephant in the room when they talk about the issue, everything bar what abortion actually does.

    The yes side have done nothing but talk about it. Have you just completely ignored the last 13k posts on the issue? Have you ignored where the different reasons for having an abortion has been discussed at length? Did you miss the post only a few previous to this telling the Pro Life poster how they are wrong because we know exactly what happens during an abortion?

    Absolutely nobody has shrunk from talking about the unborn... but that is not what the referendum is on.


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    #3785
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    garbo speaks wrote: »
    RobertKK wrote: »
    Do the Yes posters even mention abortion?

    No, because they can't dare allude to what happens in the reality of an abortion as a helpless foetus is ripped out via forceps. The yes posters would rather be all clean and happy, like some sort of green party promotional material.

    Forceps delivery for a 12 week old fetus? :pac: Feck sake that would be some task! :D


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    #3786
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    Taken from the Pro Life Longford page:



    I think the Americans running the page have their Constitutions mixed up...

    Many lols. The 2nd amendment is basically grammatical, mostly to the Irish text. The 5th removes the special position of the RCC. :pac:


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    #3787
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    RobertKK wrote: »
    So?
    It is in the English media about English women seeking abortion pills illegally online.
    One might as well argue cigarettes should be legal because people are buying illegal cigarettes, oh wait...they are legal and they kill people...

    What on earth has that got to do with my point?


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    #3788
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    January wrote: »
    Again with the emotive language. An abortion is a private matter between a woman and her doctor. It doesn't snuff out life it stops a foetus from developing in the womb.

    Stop with the hysterics.

    Lets have a referendum to legalise abortion, but lets not talk about abortion as it is emotive.
    That is what hysterics is, not wanting to discuss what the intentions behind the referendum are because abortion isn't particularly nice.


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    #3789
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    January wrote: »
    They don't need to. The slogan is

    Sometimes a private matter needs public support.

    The Labour Party one is “Compassion during a Crisis”.


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    #3790
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    What on earth has that got to do with my point?

    Quote from you: unknown amount order the pill online


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    #3791
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    RobertKK wrote: »
    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    No I asked you.

    Aren't we suppose to trust women?
    I know lots of women who don't view themselves or other women as incubators when pregnant.

    That's true, there are plenty who don't view themselves as an incubator. But can you not see how a woman who doesn't want to be pregnant but must remain so might view themselves as an incubator?


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    #3792
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    kylith wrote: »
    Many lols. The 2nd amendment is basically grammatical, mostly to the Irish text. The 5th removes the special position of the RCC. :pac:

    The post on the page before that was about how a bishop leads a eucharistic progression to a Planned Parenthood clinic... because there's so many of them in Longford...


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    #3793
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Quote from you: unknown amount order the pill online

    Yes and my point was that abortion is happening anyway.


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    #3794
    BabyCheeses
    Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭BabyCheeses


    RobertKK wrote: »
    False, what the yes side wants is to avoid talking about the unborn, it is like the elephant in the room when they talk about the issue, everything bar what abortion actually does.

    They aren't the ones pretending that early abortions are a complex process rather than just taking a pill.


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    #3795
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Lets have a referendum to legalise abortion, but lets not talk about abortion as it is emotive.
    That is what hysterics is, not wanting to discuss what the intentions behind the referendum are because abortion isn't particularly nice.

    The posters don't mention abortion but the leaflets do so we've got it covered don't worry
    ...


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    #3796
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Lets have a referendum to legalise abortion, but lets not talk about abortion as it is emotive.
    That is what hysterics is, not wanting to discuss what the intentions behind the referendum are because abortion isn't particularly nice.

    The referendum is to repeal the 8th.


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    #3797
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    RobertKK wrote:
    Totally avoiding the issue at hand.


    Nope, they are addressing the issue at hand, we're talking about repealing the 8th amendment which affects all women who are or will be pregnant in this country. It's not only about abortion.


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    #3798
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Hannibal_Smith wrote: »
    That's true, there are plenty who don't view themselves as an incubator. But can you not see how a woman who doesn't want to be pregnant but must remain so might view themselves as an incubator?

    No, the equivalent would be like saying 'I have cancer' and seeing the cure as being killing oneself to stop it progressing, since the same mindset should view their own body as an incubator of the cancer.
    But of course one doesn't view killing themselves as a solution to that crisis.


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    #3799
    uptherebels
    Registered Users Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Lets have a referendum to legalise abortion, but lets not talk about abortion as it is emotive.
    That is what hysterics is, not wanting to discuss what the intentions behind the referendum are because abortion isn't particularly nice.

    You mean legalise abortions in Ireland as the good people of Ireland have already deemed it necessary to provide legal protection for Irish women to have an abortion once they travel beyond a geographical point.

    Have you ignored all the previous posts and threads on this issue?


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    #3800
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    The referendum is to repeal the 8th.

    and introduce restriction free abortion to 12 weeks, and much longer for certain other areas.


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    #3801
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    RobertKK wrote: »
    and introduce restriction free abortion to 12 weeks, and much longer for certain other areas.

    It's not part of the referendum


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    #3802
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    uptherebels wrote: »
    You mean legalise abortions in Ireland as the good people of Ireland have already deemed it necessary to provide legal protection for Irish women to have an abortion once they travel beyond a geographical point.

    Have you ignored all the previous posts and threads on this issue?

    So what?
    One can go to other countries and do stuff that is legal in other countries but would be illegal at home.
    That excuse is not a reason to repeal the 8th.


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    #3803
    uptherebels
    Registered Users Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    RobertKK wrote: »
    No, the equivalent would be like saying 'I have cancer' and seeing the cure as being killing oneself to stop it progressing, since the same mindset should view their own body as an incubator of the cancer.
    But of course one doesn't view killing themselves as a solution to that crisis.

    Don't think you understand what equivalent means cause that is waaaay off


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    #3804
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    RobertKK wrote: »
    It is very open to abuse as one just has to click they are in Ireland, so illegal foreign donations can be accepted.

    Interesting you say that, because the donate page on the Save the 8th website has exactly the same functionality. The donate page of the LoveBoth website doesn't even check that.
    RobertKK wrote: »
    False, what the yes side wants is to avoid talking about the unborn, it is like the elephant in the room when they talk about the issue, everything bar what abortion actually does.

    You think that's bad, you should pro lifers scatter when you ask them if they'd repeal the 13th. It's easier to give a cat a bath than get a straight answer out of them on that question!


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    #3805
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    RobertKK wrote: »
    ....,.......all these lives add up and do have a public impact over time.

    Again with the hysterical apocalyse stuff


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    #3806
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    The referendum is to repeal the 8th.

    to what end?


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    #3807
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    It's not part of the referendum

    Of course it is, if the referendum is passed it leads to legislation for abortion to be allowed or is that a retain the 8th lie?


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    #3808
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    pleas advice wrote: »
    to what end?

    To have a ridiculous amendment repealed? The 8th affects more than just abortions.


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    #3809
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    RobertKK wrote: »
    No, the equivalent would be like saying 'I have cancer' and seeing the cure as being killing oneself to stop it progressing, since the same mindset should view their own body as an incubator of the cancer.
    But of course one doesn't view killing themselves as a solution to that crisis.

    Um no. The equivalent there is targeting the tumour either with chemo or radiotherapy to shrink it or removing it via surgery. No killing one self nseded.


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    #3810
    uptherebels
    Registered Users Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    RobertKK wrote: »
    So what?
    One can go to other countries and do stuff that is legal in other countries but would be illegal at home.
    That excuse is not a reason to repeal the 8th.

    Please point out where Irish people have constitutional protection to do things in other countries that are illegal here aside from abortions.

    I eagerly await your response


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    #3811
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Hannibal_Smith wrote: »
    That's true, there are plenty who don't view themselves as an incubator. But can you not see how a woman who doesn't want to be pregnant but must remain so might view themselves as an incubator?

    No, the equivalent would be like saying 'I have cancer' and seeing the cure as being killing oneself to stop it progressing, since the same mindset should view their own body as an incubator of the cancer.
    But of course one doesn't view killing themselves as a solution to that crisis.

    The equivalent of what? I didn't raise any comparison? I said some women don't see themselves as an incubator, some do. That's not comparing both women?

    You're analogy makes no sense to the discussion. This Is a thread about abortion. If you want to discuss euthanasia, I wholeheartedly agree with it and there are plenty of people who opt for it, but that's another thread, No?

    The point is forcing a woman to continue a pregnancy she doesn't want is making an incubator out of her. The rest of her life and circumstances are irrelevant. She must have the baby. Extremely unfair, in my view. And I'd put her welfare far above something the size of a plum!


This discussion has been closed.
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