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The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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    #3812
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Of course it is, if the referendum is passed it leads to legislation for abortion to be allowed or is that a retain the 8th lie?

    You are not voting on the legislation. You are voting on the referendum. The legislation can be anything with enough lobbying. It can even keep abortion illegal. Abortion is not what you are voting for.


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    #3813
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    pleas advice wrote: »
    to what end?

    do you not know?


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    #3814
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    You are not voting on the legislation. You are voting on the referendum. The legislation can be anything with enough lobbying. It can even keep abortion illegal. Abortion is not what you are voting for.

    Yes I am.

    Vote Yes
    #TrustPoliticians


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    #3815
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Yes I am.

    Vote Yes
    #TrustPoliticians

    What's your point here?


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    #3816
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    do you not know?

    He does know. You could give him a long list of everything that the 8th has an effect on, but as soon as you mention abortion, they'd jump on that and, ignoring absolutely everything you just said, go "Aha! See! You admit it! We are voting for abortion". It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they even use this post as an "Aha! See! You admit it"...


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    #3817
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    What's your point here?

    If the referendum is passed, the abortion laws moves from being in the constitution into the hands of politicians.


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    #3818
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    RobertKK wrote: »
    If the referendum is passed, the abortion laws moves from being in the constitution into the hands of politicians.

    Yes, and?


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    #3819
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    RobertKK wrote: »
    If the referendum is passed, the abortion laws moves from being in the constitution into the hands of politicians.

    Where it should have been 35 years ago.


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    #3820
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    RobertKK wrote:
    Yes I am.

    You might think you are, but you are misinformed
    RobertKK wrote:
    Vote Yes #TrustPoliticians


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    #3821
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    pleas advice wrote: »
    to what end?

    Considering the 8th is bad law, repeal is an end in and of itself.
    RobertKK wrote: »
    Yes I am.

    Vote Yes
    #TrustPoliticians

    It's odd that we've seen politicians say we can't trust politicians, but in order to believe them we'd have to trust them, but they say we can't trust them, so we can't trust them when they say we can't trust them, so I think when it comes to abortion, we can trust them.


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    #3822
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    Yes, and?

    It is the strange given it will then be in the hands of politicians, that the yes side aren't also saying trust politicians with abortion...I guess trust and politicians don't really go together...


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    #3823
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    do you not know?

    so that provision may be made by law for the regulation of 'termination of pregnancies', I would presume.

    Abortions, in other words


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    #3824
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    Considering the 8th is bad law, repeal is an end in and of itself.



    It's odd that we've seen politicians say we can't trust politicians, but in order to believe them we'd have to trust them, but they say we can't trust them, so we can't trust them when they say we can't trust them, so I think when it comes to abortion, we can trust them.

    Yes, they don't even trust each other and we are being asked to trust them with a life and death matter that is abortion.


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    #3825
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    January wrote: »
    Where it should have been 35 years ago.

    No.


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    #3826
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    RobertKK wrote: »
    If the referendum is passed, the abortion laws moves from being in the constitution into the hands of politicians.

    Like every other law in the country?


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    #3827
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    January wrote: »
    Where it should have been 35 years ago.

    And where it was from the founding of the state up to 35 years ago. And the only reason it moved is because anti-contraception activists were afraid the courts would find that there was a right to abortion in the constitution.

    Turned out they were right, but it was only because of the 8th; the very amendment that was supposed to prevent that!


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    #3828
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Yes, they don't even trust each other and we are being asked to trust them with a life and death matter that is abortion.

    Who else are you going to trust with it? The church? The people who can lobby the government? Professional and expert institutions?


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    #3829
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Like every other law in the country?

    The constitution is a book of laws.


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    #3830
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    RobertKK wrote: »
    No.

    Very convincing argument...


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    #3831
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    Who else are you going to trust with it? The church? The people who can lobby the government? Professional and expert institutions?

    The constitution as voted for by the people, not people who come and go and decide that one day abortion should be even further liberalised from initial abortion legislation, then a different government who decide the opposite so it remains a political football depending on the government.


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    #3832
    uptherebels
    Registered Users Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    uptherebels wrote: »
    Please point out where Irish people have constitutional protection to do things in other countries that are illegal here aside from abortions.

    I eagerly await your response

    Anytime you want rob


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    #3833
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    RobertKK wrote: »
    The constitution as voted for by the people, not people who come and go and decide that one day abortion should be even further liberalised from initial abortion legislation, then a different government who decide the opposite so it remains a political football depending on the government.

    Is that what's happened with all the amendments?

    It took 35 years, too many deaths and far too much suffering before the 8th was even looked at. Do you really think it's going to change willy nilly, on the whim of whatever government happen to be in power?


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    #3834
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Yes, they don't even trust each other and we are being asked to trust them with a life and death matter that is abortion.

    We already trust them with life and death matters. The health service, the rights of frozen embryos, euthanasia; these are all life and death matters and all ones which are entirely in the control of politicians.

    And not a single "pro lifer" has said we need constitutional amendments on these issues. In fact, after the finding that frozen embryos weren't protected by the constitution, the Pro Life Campaign said we needed legislation, not a constitutional referendum! They certainly felt politicians could be trusted then.

    This whole "don't trust politicians" thing is just bunkum. It's a deflection from the fact that one one can put forward a valid, coherent argument for retaining the 8th.


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    #3835
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,812 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    RobertKK wrote: »
    No, the equivalent would be like saying 'I have cancer' and seeing the cure as being killing oneself to stop it progressing, since the same mindset should view their own body as an incubator of the cancer.
    But of course one doesn't view killing themselves as a solution to that crisis.

    You're so close to the penny dropping ;)

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #3836
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    RobertKK wrote: »
    The constitution as voted for by the people, not people who come and go and decide that one day abortion should be even further liberalised from initial abortion legislation, then a different government who decide the opposite so it remains a political football depending on the government.

    It's great that there are these things called referendums where if the will of the people is strong enough we can change the Constitution like with Mar ref and the divorce ref and also the 8th referendum back in 1983. That's a democracy. You don't like it? Feel free to move to a country run by a dictator.


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    #3837
    captbarnacles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭captbarnacles


    Robert you seem to have a problem with representative democracy so what would you replace it with?


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    #3838
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #3839
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    uptherebels wrote: »
    Anytime you want rob

    Your question is totally irrelevant as it doesn't matter one way or the other.


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    #3840
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    uptherebels wrote: »
    You mean legalise abortions in Ireland as the good people of Ireland have already deemed it necessary to provide legal protection for Irish women to have an abortion once they travel beyond a geographical point.

    Have you ignored all the previous posts and threads on this issue?

    That became legal as the main issue was about stopping women from traveling, as freedom of movement would be restricted otherwise.


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    #3841
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    RobertKK wrote: »
    The constitution is a book of laws.

    It's not


This discussion has been closed.
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