The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

fruitcake

Hi

I am prochoice - I am trying to convince my husband who is conservative on this issue. He confirms that he would be prochoice but for the fact he has concerns that a future government may further liberalise the laws on abortion (if passed), beyond the 12 week mark..

how do I try and allay these fears?

tia

baylah17

fruitcake wrote: »

Hi

I am prochoice - I am trying to convince my husband who is conservative on this issue. He confirms that he would be prochoice but for the fact he has concerns that a future government may further liberalise the laws on abortion (if passed), beyond the 12 week mark..

how do I try and allay these fears?

tia

Ask him how manywomen he wants die like Savita while he is sitting on the fence.

Triceratops Ballet

Will be interesting to see if they do a public crowdfund tomorrow actually or will they keep the total hidden so they can fluff the numbers

January

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Will be interesting to see if they do a public crowdfund tomorrow actually or will they keep the total hidden so they can fluff the numbers

Lol, number 2 of course!

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

nozzferrahhtoo

fruitcake wrote: »

I am prochoice - I am trying to convince my husband who is conservative on this issue. He confirms that he would be prochoice but for the fact he has concerns that a future government may further liberalise the laws on abortion (if passed), beyond the 12 week mark..

how do I try and allay these fears?

There are three ways to allay those fears. The first is to point out how unlikely this is to happen. There are better speakers on this thread to explain that view point to you than I, so I will leave that to them.

The second is to point out that EVEN IF it did happen it would have almost no effect on abortion statistics. If you look at the statistics on abortion in countries with no abortion at all, abortion to a limit like the UKs, or abortion with almost no limits like in Canada...... the numbers of women seeking abortion at each stage is pretty much universally consistent. Over 92% of abortions happen in or before week 12 regardless of locale.

The third is to point out that the increase, even if it were to happen, would have to be pretty significant to be a concern. There is pretty much nothing at all happening at, say, 16 weeks that should suddenly be a concern that is not already a concern at 12. If he is ok with abortion at 12 therefore then why not 16? Try to understand with him what his actual concerns are, and then work out with him when they actually become a concern. I know what concerns ME with abortion, and it does not come into play at 12 OR 16 or even 20 weeks for example.

seamus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Why is he claiming that the donations are anonymous? some people ticked a box to not have their names displayed publicly but togetherforyes know who they are.

Because he's an idiot.

This is the same guy who as a member of a college society started an anonymous email campaign accusing another member of sexual harassment and then got caught out. He offered nothing but pathetic apologies in penance.

He has for twenty years continually tried to get "into" politics, but been continually rejected and ejected by parties for being too right-wing and untrustworthy - he has a reputation for undermining or attacking party colleagues, and leaking inside information to 3rd parties and the press.

John McGuirk is a troll and has been a troll his entire adult life. The only thing that makes him remarkable is that he doesn't just confine his trolling to the internet. He scorches the earth around him and then points the finger at everyone else.

The T4Y campaign has already covered their arse on this. Donors are required to provide a declaration that they are an Irish citizen or Irish resident before they can donate. If someone notifies them that a donation doesn't appear to be from an Irish citizen or resident, they can deal with that. But the declaration itself would be enough to say that they haven't intentionally taken any foreign donations.

drkpower

fruitcake wrote: »

Hi

I am prochoice - I am trying to convince my husband who is conservative on this issue. He confirms that he would be prochoice but for the fact he has concerns that a future government may further liberalise the laws on abortion (if passed), beyond the 12 week mark..

how do I try and allay these fears?

tia

Ask him this question:

If - God forbid - your daughter/future daughter finds herself in a crisis pregnancy (for whatever reason) when she is 18, who would he prefer decide what happens?

1. His daughter (with support from you), informed by the precise circumstances at the time
2. Hundreds of thousands of people you don't know, who have no such knowledge of the circumstances at the time.

JDD

Did you delete your post Garbo Speaks? Or was it deleted for you?

Frank Bullitt

seamus wrote: »

Because he's an idiot.

This is the same guy who as a member of a college society started an anonymous email campaign accusing another member of sexual harassment and then got caught out. He offered nothing but pathetic apologies in penance.

He has for twenty years continually tried to get "into" politics, but been continually rejected and ejected by parties for being too right-wing and untrustworthy - he has a reputation for undermining or attacking party colleagues, and leaking inside information to 3rd parties and the press.

John McGuirk is a troll and has been a troll his entire adult life. The only thing that makes him remarkable is that he doesn't just confine his trolling to the internet. He scorches the earth around him and then points the finger at everyone else.

The T4Y campaign has already covered their arse on this. Donors are required to provide a declaration that they are an Irish citizen or Irish resident before they can donate. If someone notifies them that a donation doesn't appear to be from an Irish citizen or resident, they can deal with that. But the declaration itself would be enough to say that they haven't intentionally taken any foreign donations.

He is a prime source of entertainment for me on a daily basis, although I don't think he would say the same about me and my tweet to him.

gmisk

seamus wrote: »

Because he's an idiot.

This is the same guy who as a member of a college society started an anonymous email campaign accusing another member of sexual harassment and then got caught out. He offered nothing but pathetic apologies in penance.

He has for twenty years continually tried to get "into" politics, but been continually rejected and ejected by parties for being too right-wing and untrustworthy - he has a reputation for undermining or attacking party colleagues, and leaking inside information to 3rd parties and the press.

John McGuirk is a troll and has been a troll his entire adult life. The only thing that makes him remarkable is that he doesn't just confine his trolling to the internet. He scorches the earth around him and then points the finger at everyone else.

The T4Y campaign has already covered their arse on this. Donors are required to provide a declaration that they are an Irish citizen or Irish resident before they can donate. If someone notifies them that a donation doesn't appear to be from an Irish citizen or resident, they can deal with that. But the declaration itself would be enough to say that they haven't intentionally taken any foreign donations.

Wow what a lovely thing to do....:mad:
I cant say im surprised given the tone and content of his tweets

borderlinemeath

garbo speaks wrote: »

There's a sucker born every minute.

I'll donate another €50 every time you post a bitter little retort. Keep it up.

garbo speaks

I'm involved in a group that will be offering free lifts to and from polling stations for pensioners from nursing homes and other pensioners in and around our area who might otherwise not be able to travel to vote. The feedback against repeal has been overwhelming in the nursing homes we have already visited. I really think that the elderly vote will sink this referendum, so here's hoping they all get a chance to come out and vote.

Triceratops Ballet

garbo speaks wrote: »

I'm involved in a group that will be offering free lifts to and from polling stations for pensioners from nursing homes and other pensioners in and around our area who might otherwise not be able to travel to vote. The feedback against repeal has been overwhelming in the nursing homes we have already visited. I really think that the elderly vote will sink this referendum, so here's hoping they all get a chance to come out and vote.

This is why it's important for anyone who has been through an abortion in England, or had their care compromised by the 8th to speak to their family, even if it might be an uncomfortable conversation. It's easy to stick with the status quo when you don't know how it affects the people you love

SusieBlue

garbo speaks wrote: »

I'm involved in a group that will be offering free lifts to and from polling stations for pensioners from nursing homes and other pensioners in and around our area who might otherwise not be able to travel to vote. The feedback against repeal has been overwhelming in the nursing homes we have already visited. I really think that the elderly vote will sink this referendum, so here's hoping they all get a chance to come out and vote.

Here's hoping they realise that the Ireland of today is a very different Ireland to that they grew up in (thank goodness), and can be selfless enough to see beyond their own personal morals and opinions and vote Yes to allow everyone their choice.

The pensioners of Ireland will not have to live with the consequences of this referendum, but their grandchildren, and future generations will.

Banjaxed82

Genuine question...what groups from the no campaign have no religious motivation behind their stance?

JDD

garbo speaks wrote: »

I'm involved in a group that will be offering free lifts to and from polling stations for pensioners from nursing homes and other pensioners in and around our area who might otherwise not be able to travel to vote. The feedback against repeal has been overwhelming in the nursing homes we have already visited. I really think that the elderly vote will sink this referendum, so here's hoping they all get a chance to come out and vote.

Nobody knows how anyone is going to vote until they're in that polling booth, and the tendency when your peer group all voice a certain view, you will also, in public, agree with that view. So I wouldn't be betting your house that everyone you spoke to in that nursing home will vote to keep the 8th.

Having said that, even if every last person you bus to the polling station votes to keep the 8th, I think what you're doing is genuinely good. Everyone who is eligible to vote should have a chance to vote. You are increasing the democratic pool. That is a good thing.

JDD

Garbo Speaks, you appear to be a straight talker, unafraid to take a controversial stance. I posted a few pages back my own situation, quoted below, and asked for feedback from pro-lifers. What is your view - A or B?

Bertieinexile, pleas advise, you’re both online, you might answer my question.

During my last pregnancy it was suspected I had placenta accretia (google it). Very luckily, in the end, I did not. However, I was informed that should I get pregnant again, I would have a 70% chance of it occurring.

Statistics on placenta accretia are hard to come by as it is historically a rare complication latterly on the rise. From my own research and from the discussions with my consultant I was told the condition has a 7% mortality rate, a 30% chance of permanent injury to my non-uterus internal organs and an 80% chance I would lose my uterus.

As a result I had a tubal ligation. But no contraceptive is a fail safe. What do YOU advise as my current course of action:

A. Refrain from having sex with my husband until go through the menopause;

B. Have sex with my husband but, should my contraception fail, accept that I would have a 1 in 20 chance of dying, and a 1 in 5 chance of suffering a serious life debititating injury should I bring the pregnancy to full term.

Bear in mind that I have three young children who would be left without a mother if the 1 in 20 chance came to pass.

Your beliefs mean my choice has to be A or B.

JDD

Garbo Speaks, you appear to be a straight talker, unafraid to take a controversial stance. I posted a few pages back my own situation, quoted below, and asked for feedback from pro-lifers. What is your view - A or B?

Bertieinexile, pleas advise, you’re both online, you might answer my question.

During my last pregnancy it was suspected I had placenta accretia (google it). Very luckily, in the end, I did not. However, I was informed that should I get pregnant again, I would have a 70% chance of it occurring.

Statistics on placenta accretia are hard to come by as it is historically a rare complication latterly on the rise. From my own research and from the discussions with my consultant I was told the condition has a 7% mortality rate, a 30% chance of permanent injury to my non-uterus internal organs and an 80% chance I would lose my uterus.

As a result I had a tubal ligation. But no contraceptive is a fail safe. What do YOU advise as my current course of action:

A. Refrain from having sex with my husband until go through the menopause;

B. Have sex with my husband but, should my contraception fail, accept that I would have a 1 in 20 chance of dying, and a 1 in 5 chance of suffering a serious life debititating injury should I bring the pregnancy to full term.

Bear in mind that I have three young children who would be left without a mother if the 1 in 20 chance came to pass.

Your beliefs mean my choice has to be A or B.

Schorpio

garbo speaks wrote: »

I'm involved in a group that will be offering free lifts to and from polling stations for pensioners from nursing homes and other pensioners in and around our area who might otherwise not be able to travel to vote. The feedback against repeal has been overwhelming in the nursing homes we have already visited. I really think that the elderly vote will sink this referendum, so here's hoping they all get a chance to come out and vote.

Ah yes, the elderly. The group who grew up in a staunchly Catholic society, and for which the outcome of this referendum will likely affect the least.

If anti-Repealers really cared about the issue, they might be speaking to (and trying to canvass) those whose lives are affected the most i.e. the young women and men of this country. And I do mean speaking, not scaremongering.

Donated €20 lads. It's a good cause and the county needs to be done with this once and for all. Reposting the link for visibility - https://togetherforyes.causevox.com/

.......

This post has been deleted.

Sofiztikated

garbo speaks wrote: »

I'm involved in a group that will be offering free lifts to and from polling stations for pensioners from nursing homes and other pensioners in and around our area who might otherwise not be able to travel to vote. The feedback against repeal has been overwhelming in the nursing homes we have already visited. I really think that the elderly vote will sink this referendum, so here's hoping they all get a chance to come out and vote.

Fair play, and I hope you keep up the lifts for local and national elections as well.

And will you keep up your visits to them when this is over, or will you abandon them like you so freely abandon women and children at the moment?

Zubeneschamali

Trasna1 wrote: »

Sean Gallagher managed to come second in a presidential election without posters

2nd in a referendum is not a good result.

Turbohymac

It's absolutely amazing all those who want change has actually already been born .. their either very sad in their existing lives but I bet if the clock was turned back they would hope that their parents wouldn't terminate their chance of life when they were pre 12 weeks unborn.. for some of us citizens who has had years of uphill battles with failed ivf etc . We actually look a bit more positive to giving every life the chance it deserves. We all have opinions but it's sad to imagine just how little value has now been placed on human life

uptherebels

RobertKK wrote: »

Your question is totally irrelevant as it doesn't matter one way or the other.

Funny how anti choicers on here keep deeming things they won't answer because it sinks their arguement as irrelevant

Zubeneschamali

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Genuine question...what groups from the no campaign have no religious motivation behind their stance?

Good luck getting a straight answer to that one.

ELM327

garbo speaks wrote: »

I'm involved in a group that will be offering free lifts to and from polling stations for pensioners from nursing homes and other pensioners in and around our area who might otherwise not be able to travel to vote. The feedback against repeal has been overwhelming in the nursing homes we have already visited. I really think that the elderly vote will sink this referendum, so here's hoping they all get a chance to come out and vote.

JDD wrote: »

Nobody knows how anyone is going to vote until they're in that polling booth, and the tendency when your peer group all voice a certain view, you will also, in public, agree with that view. So I wouldn't be betting your house that everyone you spoke to in that nursing home will vote to keep the 8th.

Having said that, even if every last person you bus to the polling station votes to keep the 8th, I think what you're doing is genuinely good. Everyone who is eligible to vote should have a chance to vote. You are increasing the democratic pool. That is a good thing.

I don't share your sentiment.
Why should someone living out their last couple of years have the ability to enforce decades of servitude and forced incubation on young women, some of which may not even have been born yet.

That generation should be ashamed of itself, for the rubbish it has left us with. I was not eligible to vote in 1983 but I will make sure to vote early and often in this referendum that's for sure. I've also offered to any of my ex-pat friends who are eligible to vote that I will pay for them to fly in to vote (of course they would vote yes) and have canvassed all of my social group to do the same.


#repealthe8th
#trustourwomen

dudara

If I had been terminated, my consciousness simply wouldn’t have been. And because it wouldn’t have been, then I wouldn’t have been. I can’t miss what I never ever would have had. It’s a waste of emotional energy to think of it like that.

I get where you’re coming from emotionally, bug please, apply some logic. You can’t miss what you never had.

Zubeneschamali

Turbohymac wrote: »

for some of us citizens who has had years of uphill battles with failed ivf etc .

IVF involves killing tiny human beings or freezing them indefinitely (if indeed human beings appear at conception as many pro-lifers tell us), so it should be as illegal as abortion is.

Or just as legal, if the tiny human being stuff is nonsense as pro-choicers generally think.

Eponymous

I've donated.