The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

dudara

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Genuine question...what groups from the no campaign have no religious motivation behind their stance?

I think I saw mention of one aetheist anti-choice group. Can’t remember their name though.

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Sofiztikated

Turbohymac wrote: »

It's absolutely amazing all those who want change has actually already been born .. their either very sad in their existing lives but I bet if the clock was turned back they would hope that their parents wouldn't terminate their chance of life when they were pre 12 weeks unborn.. for some of us citizens who has had years of uphill battles with failed ivf etc . We actually look a bit more positive to giving every life the chance it deserves. We all have opinions but it's sad to imagine just how little value has now been placed on human life

If abortion had been a available, my mother has said that if she knew the hurt and pain both she and I have been through, she would have considered one. I'm perfectly OK with that.

My partner and I have lost a much wanted child through miscarriage, and are looking down a long road if we want children.

Still perfectly fine with Repeal, perfectly fine with abortion without restriction to 12 weeks, and later if necessary.

Triceratops Ballet

Turbohymac wrote: »

It's absolutely amazing all those who want change has actually already been born .. their either very sad in their existing lives but I bet if the clock was turned back they would hope that their parents wouldn't terminate their chance of life when they were pre 12 weeks unborn.. for some of us citizens who has had years of uphill battles with failed ivf etc . We actually look a bit more positive to giving every life the chance it deserves. We all have opinions but it's sad to imagine just how little value has now been placed on human life

Of course those of us with opinions are the ones already born, because the unborn can't speak, or think, or act or live independently. If my parents had chosen an abortion I wouldn't know anything about it to have feelings, if access to abortion meant my mother wouldn't have had me then that's just the way it is. I want all women to have a choice and I want all women to have the right to refuse or consent to medical treatment during pregnancy, I am aware that could have resulted in many of us here not being born, but I believe in the freedom of self determination.

I have a lot of empathy for people who want children and can't have them, it's a desperately sad situation, but I also believe that people who don't want children and find themselves pregnant should be forced to have them. That doesn't actually help people who can't have kids.

I think it's sad to imagine forcing women to remain pregnant against their will

Ave Sodalis

Turbohymac wrote: »

It's absolutely amazing all those who want change has actually already been born .. their either very sad in their existing lives but I bet if the clock was turned back they would hope that their parents wouldn't terminate their chance of life when they were pre 12 weeks unborn.. for some of us citizens who has had years of uphill battles with failed ivf etc . We actually look a bit more positive to giving every life the chance it deserves. We all have opinions but it's sad to imagine just how little value has now been placed on human life

I know I've said this on the thread before but I'm am one who would fully understand if my mother chose to abort me. I would never ask anyone I love to go through what she did. Not that I would have any consciousness of the fact...

You may want children, but given the huge amount of reasons there is for an abortion, given the number of things the 8th affects, and given the number of women who have suffered and died due to the 8th... it needs to go.

I, and many other pro-choice, would love if there never has to be an abortion again. That is not reality though.

JDD

Turbohymac wrote: »

It's absolutely amazing all those who want change has actually already been born .. their either very sad in their existing lives but I bet if the clock was turned back they would hope that their parents wouldn't terminate their chance of life when they were pre 12 weeks unborn.. for some of us citizens who has had years of uphill battles with failed ivf etc . We actually look a bit more positive to giving every life the chance it deserves. We all have opinions but it's sad to imagine just how little value has now been placed on human life

Did you really get IVF? Really? I don't actually believe you. If you were pro-life you would not partake in IVF treatment as the treatment involves discarding non-viable fertlised eggs. How do you reconcile your pro-life stance with your partaking in IVF?

You realise the fact that you exist is absolute chance? Another egg might have been released, a different sperm might have been successful, it all might have happened on a different day of the month and you would never have been implanted at all. I know that there is an absolute infinite number of random reasons why I might not exist, in addition to perhaps my parents choosing to terminate the pregnancy. I don't dwell on those aspects at all.

applehunter

I was at a whist drive in the community centre on Monday evening and there is was a big pro life feeling in the room.

captbarnacles

That's a spectacular way to sink your own point because IVF results in thousands of embryos never getting a chance at life as you put it.

_Dara_

Turbohymac wrote: »

It's absolutely amazing all those who want change has actually already been born .. their either very sad in their existing lives but I bet if the clock was turned back they would hope that their parents wouldn't terminate their chance of life when they were pre 12 weeks unborn.. for some of us citizens who has had years of uphill battles with failed ivf etc . We actually look a bit more positive to giving every life the chance it deserves. We all have opinions but it's sad to imagine just how little value has now been placed on human life

That other couples desperately want children is of no relevance.

Reminds me of the kid who misguidedly went the Late Late Show to say that suicidal people shouldn’t be suicidal because other people like him are dying but want to live.

The two things are completely separate. I understand that IVF is agonising but nobody is trying to upset people who are going through it.

gctest50

Turbohymac wrote: »

It's absolutely amazing all those who want change has actually already been born .. their either very sad in their existing lives but I bet if the clock was turned back they would hope that their parents wouldn't terminate their chance of life when they were pre 12 weeks unborn.. for some of us citizens who has had years of uphill battles with failed ivf etc . We actually look a bit more positive to giving every life the chance it deserves. We all have opinions but it's sad to imagine just how little value has now been placed on human life

IVF ? works a little too well sometimes and you might be needing multiple fetal reduction to save the pregnancy

PopePalpatine

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Genuine question...what groups from the no campaign have no religious motivation behind their stance?

Maybe there's one on that ****ty Reddit clone, who think Western civilisation began dying with women's suffrage? After all, they share a common fascination with The Spooky Billionaire Jew. :pac:

JDD

I had to google whist drive.

I think we can safely say that there will be more pro-life voters in the 75+ age group than the 18-35 age group. Having said that, I think there are more pro-choice voters in the 75+ age group than people think.

B0jangles

I think I posted before that a couple of weeks ago my mother was at her weekly bridge game and was delighted and surprised to report that everyone there was loudly pro-choice - this was a group of mostly women, ranging in age from 50-90.

applehunter

In contrast, hearing from a good source that the tiddlywinks game in the GAA club has a repeal majority.

#parlourgames4repeal

B0jangles

applehunter wrote: »

In contrast, hearing from a good source that the tiddlywinks game in the GAA club has a repeal majority.

#parlourgames4repeal

Is this just a big joke to you?

I would have thought that whatever your point of view on abortion, the topic itself deserves to be treated with a bit of respect.

kylith

2 of the most vehemently pro-choice people I know conceived through IVF. They don’t see why someone else should suffer so they could have a baby.

January

I've friends with fertility issues who are pro choice. They don't believe women should be forced to continue a pregnancy just because they cannot get pregnant.

_Dara_

applehunter wrote: »

In contrast, hearing from a good source that the tiddlywinks game in the GAA club has a repeal majority.

#parlourgames4repeal

Don’t be sore. You brought up anecdotal evidence in the first place. Maybe you now realise how pointless anecdote is?

applehunter

_Dara_ wrote: »

Don’t be sore. You brought up anecdotal evidence in the first place. Maybe you now realise how pointless anecdote is?

There is a lot of pigeon holing on this thread.

applehunter

Big movement in Bookies in favour of Repeal in the last 3/4 days.

Gone from 8/15 to 1/5

Think the Claire Byrne show poll showed no narrowing of the gap so maybe based on this.

https://twitter.com/KeithMillsD7 doing some sterling work on this.

It wasnt me123

garbo speaks wrote: »

I'm involved in a group that will be offering free lifts to and from polling stations for pensioners from nursing homes and other pensioners in and around our area who might otherwise not be able to travel to vote. The feedback against repeal has been overwhelming in the nursing homes we have already visited. I really think that the elderly vote will sink this referendum, so here's hoping they all get a chance to come out and vote.

That's great, I work with the elderly and they love an auld day out.

I hope you are Garda checked; have written authority by the person concerned to take them anywhere; have insurance as a taxi; have authority of the home to wander in and out putting people in cars; I hope you have helpers as elderly can be unsteady on their feet; I hope you are a trained carer as there are ways you can hold / support an elderly person without giving them any soft tissue/muscle/bone injury; I hope they are compos mentis as if not, you won't be allowed to influence their vote - you can only help people who are verbal and able to convey their personal request - people with dementia are unable to vote as they have no cognizant understanding of what they are voting for.

They will enjoy the spin so fair dues - but how pathetic that you have to drag elderly people out to make a point.

Shame on you

Yer Da sells Avon

Turbohymac wrote: »

for some of us citizens who has had years of uphill battles with failed ivf etc . We actually look a bit more positive to giving every life the chance it deserves.

I have a close relative who has endured several failed rounds of IVF, but remains steadfastly opposed to forcing other people to remain pregnant against their will. Because she's capable of empathy. And if there's one thing I've noticed about anti-choice people, it's that they display zero empathy for their fellow human beings.

Turbohymac

Hi.& thanks for all the replies within 30 minutes just to put things straight. Ivf for 6 years was our only option BUT this
Did not work either. Main point I was making is the very large divide between people who still value life . And the new generation that simply want an abort app on their phones & drone delivery of required advice & medication to terminate another life.. not here to offend anyone else this is simply my opinion but I honestly don't think that many people in favour of abortion on demand actually realises just how others people value life having been through many options. Its being used as a quick fix but this will have lasting negative effects for many at a later stage in their personal lives & we all know their decisions & actions cannot be reversed /repaired .

Thanks to all the above is simply my own personal opinion &experience. Feel free to pm me but I've now got my point out there & others need to air their valued opinions so I will not continue to post .

applehunter

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

I have a close relative who has endured several failed rounds of IVF, but remains steadfastly opposed to forcing other people to remain pregnant against their will. Because she's capable of empathy. And if there's one thing I've noticed about anti-choice people, it's that they display zero empathy for their fellow human beings.

Would you go as far as saying they show psychopathic traits?

Pherekydes

applehunter wrote: »

https://twitter.com/KeithMillsD7 doing some sterling work on this.

For once the repealers will agree with you! Keith Mills is having a great impact with the undecideds!

Yer Da sells Avon

applehunter wrote: »

Would you go as far as saying they show psychopathic traits?

Nope. Displaying zero empathy doesn't mean you're not capable of it.

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nozzferrahhtoo

applehunter wrote: »

There is a lot of pigeon holing on this thread.

I have not seen much of it really. Or at least most people who have been pigeon holded have done it openly to themselves and made it very clearly what hole they see themselves fitting in.

I am however not quite sure which hole you occupy. These are two quotes from you.....

applehunter wrote: »

Pro choice posters like myself

applehunter wrote: »

Where is your humanity? I think that an abortion is the killing of an unborn child.

.... rather than pigeon hole you I wonder if you could merely by invited to expound on any contradictions people might imagine those two sentences hold? And your position of calling people "abortionists".

When you call yourself pro choice, what definition exactly are you using to do that?

And on what basis do you presume to suggest that people having a different position to you on this subject indicates a missing "humanity"? I trust you realize agreeing with you is not an attribute of "Humanity"?

applehunter wrote: »

The fact that 1/5 children are being killed is a shocking statistic. It's no wonder there have been mathematicians out today trying to disprove it.

I see no reason to disprove it if it is in fact true. But I am not sure how true it is as quite often those statistics include figures that are more than a little misleading. For example the conflation of abortion by choice with abortion by some unavoidable medical necessity in order to enlarge the figures is something I have seen in the past.

So it would certainly pay to unpack the figures a lot more than the cursory level your link to a fact checking website bothered to do.

applehunter wrote: »

Abortion is wrong. It is the killing of an innocent life.

We end life all the time. If you used paper, medicine, or ate vegetables or meat any time recently you yourself had a hand in it. And that life was "innocent" too. So why doing so here suddenly makes abortion wrong is unclear. Perhaps you can expound on this.

What I suspect is you are merely grasping at phrases like "innocent life" in an opportunistic fashion rather than a relevant one. It is a pretty and emotional little phrase on paper, but the moment you unpack it it turns out to be empty.

amdublin

Turbohymac wrote: »

And the new generation that simply want an abort app on their phones & drone delivery of required advice & medication to terminate another life.. .

What a dreadful thing to say.

And not true. Who the heck wants this???

I've just donated again in a direct response to this post.
Trust women
Repeal the 8th