The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

Hannibal_Smith

A lady knocked on our door this eve....said she was pro-life...I said thanks but I'm voting to repeal. She took a step forward as if to debate the matter but realised my answer was fairly definite and said thank you and walked off. I'm half expecting her to call back

dark crystal

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

A lady knocked on our door this eve....said she was pro-life...I said thanks but I'm voting to repeal. She took a step forward as if to debate the matter but realised my answer was fairly definite and said thank you and walked off. I'm half expecting her to call back

Same here. I said I'd be voting 'yes' and they asked me did I still want a booklet, but I refused and said my mind was made up but thanks for calling. They were very pleasant about it.

crustybla

Trasna1 wrote: »

Indeed and for balance the opposite is true too. Say you are pro life and you'll be told you are a religious nut job and living a life pre enlightenment.

Don't fully subscribe to the pro choice side or be like myself, neutral and question everything and you'll be labeled as the opposition.

And it's people like me that need to be won over (that said, any campaigner of any flavor won't convince me).

Top o de mornin' to ye! In Ireland we spell it flavour.:)

JDD

To be fair when I type flavor my autocorrect amends it to the US version.

Trasna, I’m glad your questioning everything. Go onto both sides websites, read the oireachtas committee report and we’ll be happy to answer any questions you have or allay any of your concerns.

jugger0

jugger0 wrote: »

The video I seen is not fake, it is not just one video, it was very disturbing.

So are videos of executions, and if you posted one of them you'd be banned too.

I've seen a lot of violence in my life, I've been stabbed twice, burnt, punched, kicked, spat on and had a gun put to my head more than once. I've also given as good as I got and have physically hurt the people who did and tried to do these things to me. Thankfully this part of my life is over as I don't work at the same thing anymore.

I've seen people crushed to death and person decapitated in a car smash due to a drunk driver.

No one who has actually experienced or been involved in violent incidents tend to not want to propagate voilence unless they have a mental health problem, or just being maco online. That's why I tend to ignore people who want the death penalty because if they were involved in one they would probably sh1t themselves.

The difference is that abortion is a medical procedure carried out for a number of reasons, all personal in the end, of a foetus, not a living person, while the death penalty is the state ending the life of a living person for a crime of which they can be guilty or not guilty of.

bertieinexile

bertieinexile wrote: »

I'm guessing 1 and 2 are directed at me.

While you're away could you find the link I posted that undermines the idea that there would be abortion on demand/request up to 24 weeks.
It's something I posted right?

And also if there's time could you think about the steps involved in a doctor being struck off for signing a certificate saying s/he believed there was a threat of serious harm to someone's mental health. (Someone who was a willing participant in the enterprise.)

Have a good trip

Not just yourself trying that line.

Here's the article
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-will-seek-to-ban-late-term-abortions-1.3440056

No where does it state abortion on demand until 24 weeks, but anyone reading the article could tell you that.

You mentioned in another post that I didn't answer a question from you if I would support abortion on demand up to 24 weeks, I answered you as I'll support what ever is made the law of the land once repeal is successful.

In relation to your post on switching off life support, it's not done by the medical profession here unless your already dead or have no way back and even then it's not something done lightly without the family making the decision.
Personally my wife, family and my best mate have been told to pull the plug on me in such a case or one where I'd be in a state where I'd have no quality of life, but again as with everything this is my own personal choice and no one else's business in saying if it should be done or not.

JDD

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t it the law of the land already that, if you are on life support, your next of kin have the right to withdraw that support? I’m sure there are special circumstances that must apply also - highly unlikely to recover etc. it was a Supreme Court case.

So, if I’m right, and a termination was performed at 22 weeks because of a risk to the health of the mother, the parents would have the right to make the decision to turn off life support, having assessed all the likely consequences of being born so early.

It wasnt me123

Where there was pro life callers to the door, can I ask which area? No problem if you don't want to make your area know. I'm just curious, no sign of anything in Sth Tipp as yet.

NuMarvel

It's now €447,000! At this rate, it'll likely make the half a million target before this time tomorrow!

gctest50

smokingman wrote: »

Check if you're registered everyone. Seems the latest tactic from the "love both" crowd is to write letters to councils to get people they've identified using Facebook data to get pro-choice people removed as "non-resident"

Tuesday 08-05-2018 is the closing date for your Local Authority to receive an application for entry to the Supplement to the register of electors for the referendum.



https://www.checktheregister.ie





.

amdublin

I've said it before but sometimes I worry I am speaking in an echo chamber.

I am motivated by the conversation here on boards and think we can be confident it will pass.

But then I see some stuff on other places and it gives me a jolt of reality e.g. david mcwilliams posted in support of repeal on fb yesterday. Equally I saw two politicians do same (labour and someone else).

The comments /replies have opened my eyes.
There are a lot of pro life people out there with the likes of their opinions I guess I don't see usually. I don't want to label these people...But jeebs their thoughts are...pretty out there...to say the least. But they exist. And there's a lot of them. And they are loud and shouty on social media.

The pro choice for repeal side cannot be complacent.

We must get out and have those conversations.
We must remain calm and focussed on social media and online.
We must get out and vote on the day.

Trust women
Repeal the 8th

amdublin

Ps. The Crowd funding is at €459k which is utterly amazing. That gives me a lot of hope too

The crazy thing is:
If repeal is passed it literally changes nothing

For the pro life side literally the only change is that Irish abortions don't take place in England, Irish abortions take place in Ireland. No increase in abortions. And possibly even a decrease (taking the mad panic to book travel out of the equation)

For the pro choice side and the women affected it's a huge change

ELM327

I was (as a pro choice person) very concerned before, but the sea of money flowing in from random people, 10 quid here 20 quid there, gives me real hope that it will pass.

As above, we need to keep calm and not rise to the baiting propoganda.

Try and show any "on the fence" friends the page on facebook "In Her Shoes" as there are some stories there that show why you need the 8th repealed- and they are more powerful than 1000 onions.

Keep calm.
#trustourwomen
#repealthe8th
#keepyourrosariesofftheirovaries

Ush1

amdublin wrote: »

I've said it before but sometimes I worry I am speaking in an echo chamber.

I am motivated by the conversation here on boards and think we can be confident it will pass.

But then I see some stuff on other places and it gives me a jolt of reality e.g. david mcwilliams posted in support of repeal on fb yesterday. Equally I saw two politicians do same (labour and someone else).

The comments /replies have opened my eyes.
There are a lot of pro life people out there with the likes of their opinions I guess I don't see usually. I don't want to label these people...But jeebs their thoughts are...pretty out there...to say the least. But they exist. And there's a lot of them. And they are loud and shouty on social media.

The pro choice for repeal side cannot be complacent.

We must get out and have those conversations.
We must remain calm and focussed on social media and online.
We must get out and vote on the day.

Trust women
Repeal the 8th

I'm likely going to vote yes but I have to say I don't like this narrative.

While I can see both sides have extreme elements I think it's disingenuous to say this is a womens issue and it's their body. It's clearly more complicated than that when there is another life/potential life growing inside them.

Also, issues such as abortion effect society at large so everyone should have an interest, man or woman. I would have never had to worry about slavery, it wouldn't have effected me but I still would have voted to get rid of it.

gmisk

I will be honest I worry it will be fairly tight....closer than the marriage referendum possibly.
maybe something like 55/45.

I just worry people might listen to the lies on posters, leaflets and the rubbish spouted online as well.
Hopefully the ongoing and seemingly constant lies on the save the 8th side continue to be called out, and people do their own research before deciding how to vote.
Also picking that embarrassment John Mc Guirk as their campaign leader can only help.

ohnonotgmail

Ush1 wrote: »

I'm likely going to vote yes but I have to say I don't like this narrative.

While I can see both sides have extreme elements I think it's disingenuous to say this is a womens issue and it's their body. It's clearly more complicated than that when there is another life/potential life growing inside them.

Also, issues such as abortion effect society at large so everyone should have an interest, man or woman. I would have never had to worry about slavery, it wouldn't have effected me but I still would have voted to get rid of it.

It is a womans issue and it is their bodies. This issue affects them a lot more than it does society at large.

gmisk

ELM327 wrote: »

Try and show any "on the fence" friends the page on facebook "In Her Shoes" as there are some stories there that show why you need the 8th - and they are more powerful than 1000 onions.

I cant actually read any more of the posts on "in her shoes" absolutely heartbreaking but I agree entirely.

Ush1

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It is a womans issue and it is their bodies. This issue affects them a lot more than it does society at large.

Well you've shown me! See what I mean?

Yes it's their bodies that are carrying another body/potential body. Like it or not only women can procreate, mean can't, so you should be able to see why men would have an interest also.

seamus

ELM327 wrote: »

I was (as a pro choice person) very concerned before, but the sea of money flowing in from random people, 10 quid here 20 quid there, gives me real hope that it will pass.

This. There is a lot of noise from pro-life trolls. Lots of sock-puppeting going on to make it look like they're much louder and more widespread online than they actually are.

But when you look at the real-life realities, it gives me more positivity. The T4Y campaign's runaway funding success, and the pro-life's panicked mocking of the same. The fact that John McGuirk was the best individual they could find to head their campaign. Not even George Hook or Ivan Yates, or anyone with a track record of political savvy or success, or someone who commands respect in the public sphere.

Of course, that's not to get complacent. Much like marriage equality, there will of course be plenty with pro-life views who choose to stay silent. Who recognise the inherent flaws in their argument but choose not to confront it, instead choosing to stay silent rather than be criticised. As is their right.

They're the reason why campaigning is valuable. These people have no interest in getting into a public debate or argument. But they will read. They will listen to arguments.

ohnonotgmail

Ush1 wrote: »

Well you've shown me! See what I mean?

Yes it's their bodies that are carrying another body/potential body. Like it or not only women can procreate, mean can't, so you should be able to see why men would have an interest also.

men should have an interest to ensure that women can make the best choices for themselves.

Ush1

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

men should have an interest to ensure that women can make the best choices for themselves.

...and wider society.

Do you accept it's not as simple as saying it's their bodies? Do you think people would be as concerned and stirred if women were wanting to legally chop off their legs?

applehunter

John McGuirk has played a stormer.

NuMarvel

applehunter wrote: »

John McGuirk has played a stormer.

Do you have anything constructive to add or are you occasionally wandering in here just to try and get a rise out of people?

It wasnt me123

Ush1 wrote: »

...and wider society.

Do you accept it's not as simple as saying it's their bodies? Do you think people would be as concerned and stirred if women were wanting to legally chop off their legs?

Keep it relevant. My eggs and reproductive system are mine and mine alone. No busy body should have any say in what I do with my reproductive system. Do we put men's production of sperm in the Constitution? Of course not, its ridiculous and so is some randomer having a say in my uterus.

Repeal all the way

ohnonotgmail

Ush1 wrote: »

...and wider society.

Do you accept it's not as simple as saying it's their bodies? Do you think people would be as concerned and stirred if women were wanting to legally chop off their legs?

is that something common that i am not aware of?

It is simply this. Women must be allowed to make the best choice for themselves. Or do you suggest they should martyr themselves for the betterment of society? what societal issues that are caused by abortion override the health and wellbeing of a woman?

ohnonotgmail

applehunter wrote: »

John McGuirk has played a stormer.

in the sense that he is doing the repeal sides job for them i totally agree.

Zubeneschamali

applehunter wrote: »

John McGuirk has played a stormer.

Agreed, pro-choicers should have a whip round and buy him something nice for his efforts to drag the savethe8th campaign completely beneath the "water" in his sewer.

erica74

A massive amount of new antichoice posters gone up around Waterford and Kilkenny over night.
Delighted to see my first few prochoice posters around as well though

gmisk

applehunter wrote: »

John McGuirk has played a stormer.

For the repeal side totally agree!

Ush1

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Keep it relevant. My eggs and reproductive system are mine and mine alone. No busy body should have any say in what I do with my reproductive system. Do we put men's production of sperm in the Constitution? Of course not, its ridiculous and so is some randomer having a say in my uterus.

Repeal all the way

Yeah, see there's a point when it's more than your reproductive system is the issue. Again, are you not seeing how disingenuous that line of reasoning is?

Your eggs and mens sperm by themselves won't create a human life. You know this, a fertilized egg obviously eventually will(barring complications). That's the relevant part.