The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

petalgumdrops

Still wondering how the 8th managed to save your child's life. From your posts even news of FFA did not influence your decision to carry to term as is your right.

Sorry? So if I told you I got pregnant by accident and was forced to travel to london I.Would be more deserving of telling you the 8th had an affect on me?

How can you dare speculate on whether I wanted to carry to term or not? Whether I had the means to travel or not or whether I even had the physical ability to travel. Would love to see you question a woman who "could" travel. Please don't even respond to me again.

petalgumdrops wrote: »

By that standard whether we terminate or not is all based on beliefs and personal decision?

I have no personal ethos on terminations bar that for healthy babies there should be a limit.

Abortion in ireland was not something that was offered to me. It did not inform doctors practice on how my case was dealt with at a time when I was at my most vulnerable. Had I have been in England and based on how fetal medicine there had pushed reccomendation for termination- I would have grabbed it with both hands . When you are told your baby is one if only 4 cases ever to be born alive then you can't tell me that the 8th didn't have an impact on my outcome. Simlarily like how I can't tell other women that the 8th didn't impact negatively on them. It seems that this group will pledge undying faith and will not question the stories that support their narrative. '
The depts of despair is all I can describe what we went through.
I know that women also mention that having full bodily autonomy in maternity care is also an issue related to the 8th. That interventions are carried out against their will.
I didn't want my birth to go the way it did, my baby was being born earlier than I wanted and fear and panic took over for me. If intervening in the way they did to save both my life and my childs then yes the 8th saved him. I didn't want the level of intervention I received but we are here.

Until you hear a doctor telling you that your baby has no chance of life, that death is certain that termination would be easier on you, that you can try again -all while not being able to do anything about it then you can tell me that I'm wrong.

The biggest travesty of these issues are public couselling waiting lists meant I suffered immensely because of it...... or maybe I didn't shout the loudest.

Leaving this thread now before I'm asked to produce my CVS and Amniocenthese reports

This was the reasonn given to me.

lazygal

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

How come the tests can't be done here? Why do they have to be sent to a UK lab? That's pretty poor maternity care that we have to send results abroad isn't it?

The tests which are processed abroad are the harmony/panorama tests. I guess there isn't the critical mass here to warrant a lab doing them as they are done privately on request and not routinely offered on the public maternity care system. I understand even in the UK where they are more routine some are sent to the US for processing as its quicker than a UK lab.
More info here: http://www.merrionfetalhealth.ie/harmony-prenatal-test/
I actually got the results more quickly than other tests which were processed by the lab in Holles Street. The website says two weeks but my results came back within six days.

Hannibal_Smith

DubInMeath wrote: »

This was the reasonn given to me.

Ah...thanks I totally missed that post.

I'm not aware that there are medical interventions associated with the 8th?

applehunter

@ seamus

See 4 example below from Mayfield in Cork.









There were 2 more posters given the same treatment up the road but it was lashing rain at that stage.

lazygal

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Ah...thanks I totally missed that post.

I'm not aware that there are medical interventions associated with the 8th?

There aren't specific interventions, but the HSE has made it clear that informed consent doesn't apply to pregnant people because of the eighth amendment. Women have been taken to court because they've refused a c section and doctors want to override that.

Hannibal_Smith

lazygal wrote: »

The tests which are processed abroad are the harmony/panorama tests. I guess there isn't the critical mass here to warrant a lab doing them as they are done privately on request and not routinely offered on the public maternity care system. I understand even in the UK where they are more routine some are sent to the US for processing as its quicker than a UK lab.
More info here: http://www.merrionfetalhealth.ie/harmony-prenatal-test/
I actually got the results more quickly than other tests which were processed by the lab in Holles Street. The website says two weeks but my results came back within six days.

Ah ok. That makes sense. I thought we were sending standard tests over to the UK

erica74

smokingman wrote: »

So according to the love both crowd, rapists are the good guys and it's women that should be punished because....er...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/abortion-referendum/victims-of-rape-and-incest-should-carry-babies-to-full-term-say-campaigners-1.3444429?mode=amp

This makes me so angry.

petalgumdrops

petalgumdrops wrote: »

Still wondering how the 8th managed to save your child's life. From your posts even news of FFA did not influence your decision to carry to term as is your right.

Sorry? So if I told you I got pregnant by accident and was forced to travel to london I.Would be more deserving of telling you the 8th had an affect on me?

How can you dare speculate on whether I wanted to carry to term or not? Whether I had the means to travel or not or whether I even had the physical ability to travel. Would love to see you question a woman who "could" travel. Please don't even respond to me again.

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Ah...thanks I totally missed that post.

I'm not aware that there are medical interventions associated with the 8th?

I also edited the post to include the posters first reply to me as for some reason, most likely my old tablet can't handle multi-quotes at times

Link to post https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106721002&postcount=4725

lazygal

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Ah ok. That makes sense. I thought we were sending standard tests over to the UK

No, but like I said tests done and processed here took longer sometimes!

bertieinexile

You have my sympathy petalgumdrops.
The reception you have got on this site in the last 2 days comes across to me and, I would guess, to a lot of neutral observers as not very pleasant.
I understand you to be saying that you recieved a misdiagnosis during pregnancy. And you believe that in the uk medical culture - which treats abortion as just one more, easily available, choice - the general thrust of the professional advice you would have received in your situation would have been that you have an abortion.

Nothing is certain.
In the end the decision would have been yours but you believe that if you had had your experience in a medical environment where abortion is normalised, like it is in england, your decision would have been extremely heavily influenced by what those experts were telling you.

You believe that because in Ireland medical professionals operate both
(a) under laws embodying the 8th amnendment in regards to protecting the life of the child and
(b) in a medical culture created by those laws, in which the life of the child is respected, and the care given to mothers is superior to that in the uk as evidenced by our historically better maternal mortality statistics,
more care was taken here. The treatment was more conservative because they knew they were dealing with two lives, not one, and
as a result of that care your son is now alive and a source of great joy in your life,

Am I following what you're saying?

Sofiztikated

bertieinexile wrote: »

You have my sympathy petalgumdrops.
The reception you have got on this site in the last 2 days comes across to me and, I would guess, to a lot of neutral observers as not very pleasant.
I understand you to be saying that you recieved a misdiagnosis during pregnancy. And you believe that in the uk medical culture - which treats abortion as just one more, easily available, choice - the general thrust of the professional advice you would have received in your situation would have been that you have an abortion.

Nothing is certain.
In the end the decision would have been yours but you believe that if you had had your experience in a medical environment where abortion is normalised, like it is in england, your decision would have been extremely heavily influenced by what those experts were telling you.

You believe that because in Ireland medical professionals operate both
(a) under laws embodying the 8th amnendment in regards to protecting the life of the child and
(b) in a medical culture created by those laws, in which the life of the child is respected, and the care given to mothers is superior to that in the uk as evidenced by our historically better maternal mortality statistics,
more care was taken here. The treatment was more conservative because they knew they were dealing with two lives, not one, and
as a result of that care your son is now alive and a source of great joy in your life,

Am I following what you're saying?

There's a ****ing suprise, Bertie knows exactly what she means, when people have been asking for days for clarification because the situation as presented wasn't clear. When Bertie himself has a habit of posting confusing stuff, and not clarifying what he mean.

Shadowstrife

I'd love to ask an anti-abortion voter, to what lengths they would prevent me from accessing an abortion.

'Tie me up? Physically restrain me in hand-cuffs? Lock me in a cell? '

bertieinexile

bertieinexile wrote: »

You have my sympathy petalgumdrops.
The reception you have got on this site in the last 2 days comes across to me and, I would guess, to a lot of neutral observers as not very pleasant.
I understand you to be saying that you recieved a misdiagnosis during pregnancy. And you believe that in the uk medical culture - which treats abortion as just one more, easily available, choice - the general thrust of the professional advice you would have received in your situation would have been that you have an abortion.

Nothing is certain.
In the end the decision would have been yours but you believe that if you had had your experience in a medical environment where abortion is normalised, like it is in england, your decision would have been extremely heavily influenced by what those experts were telling you.

You believe that because in Ireland medical professionals operate both
(a) under laws embodying the 8th amnendment in regards to protecting the life of the child and
(b) in a medical culture created by those laws, in which the life of the child is respected, and the care given to mothers is superior to that in the uk as evidenced by our historically better maternal mortality statistics,
more care was taken here. The treatment was more conservative because they knew they were dealing with two lives, not one, and
as a result of that care your son is now alive and a source of great joy in your life,

Am I following what you're saying?

Any links to prove the level of care in Ireland is better than England given that the 8th is in place. Even leaving out abortion links can be found to show the level of care in the uk is better than in Ireland.

http://www.alittlelondoner.com/having-a-baby-in-ireland-vs-the-uk/


https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/is-ireland-one-of-the-safest-places-to-have-a-baby-1.2114322


https://www.theguardian.com/healthcare-network/views-from-the-nhs-frontline/2017/oct/02/pregnancy-rights-ireland-eight-amendment-control-women-tolerated-treatment-refused

lazygal

Amniocentesis is 100% conclusive. There's no false diagnosis after it. And it doesn't mean the eighth amendment saves anyone. You still choose whether to continue the pregnancy unless you can't travel.

B0jangles

B0jangles wrote: »

In my own local area , the Tidy Towns organizations have asked both campaigns not to put up posters.

Guess which campaign did as they were asked?

Guess which campaign ignored the request and is putting up posters anyway?

http://wicklownews.net/2018/04/tidy-towns-groups-are-asking-for-posters-not-to-be-erected-during-referendum-campaign/
http://wicklownews.net/2018/04/south-wicklow-together-for-yes-to-support-tidy-towns-will-not-erect-posters-in-towns-around-wicklow-county/

Since I was up the street, I took a couple of photos as proof:



All the NO campaign posters are highlighted in red.



The ones illegally placed on ESB poles had been cut down this morning, but you can see the remains of the NO campaign poster left on the pole - the colour is identical to the ones still hanging.

HappyAsLarE

Shadowstrife wrote: »

I'd love to ask an anti-abortion voter, to what lengths they would prevent me from accessing an abortion.

'Tie me up? Physically restrain me in hand-cuffs? Lock me in a cell? '

Lock you in a cell. That is generally what happens to law breakers.

reubenreuben

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

Lock you in a cell. That is generally what happens to law breakers.

And force feed you lies upon lies to brainwash you

( clockwork orange style)

PopePalpatine

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

Lock you in a cell. That is generally what happens to law breakers.

You're not going to win over the floating voters with your shrill extremism.

amdublin

Article today in response to Katie Ascough
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/abortion-referendum/being-young-and-prolife-isnt-taboo-its-just-out-of-touch-young-pharmacist-responds-to-katie-ascough-36799756.html

Annasopra

petalgumdrops wrote: »

Please go back and actually state at what point I said a Lab called me? Fetal Medicine consultants spoke with me after labs processed my CVS.

If you bother to actually inform yourself insted of spouting crap and disputing/twisting everything I said.

To be fair your story is disjointed over dozens of posts.

Trasna1

If people are pulling down posters can they take down the cable ties as well.

Cabaal

Pro life campaigners breaking the law by not only stopping illegally on a motorway to put these up (also illegal) but also then pulling out ladders and walking around.

For a group of people that claim to care about life they are looking to kill themselves and others with such idiotic actions.

Hope they are prosecuted for putting motorists at risk

robarmstrong

Trasna1 wrote: »

If people are pulling down posters can they take down the cable ties as well.

Those cable ties are actually reserved for some pro-life individuals to be used upon the pregnant women they are so eager to force to give birth, so they have to stay, sorry.

Trasna1

Trasna1 wrote: »

If people are pulling down posters can they take down the cable ties as well.

Time for you and others to complain to save the 8th campain for placing them there in the first place, despite being prohibited, and then the ESB for leaving the ties there, as stated by the poster who took the photos the posters were removed by the ESB.

Shadowstrife

Hold on a minute- I think they are allowed on the steel poles but not the timber ones. Or are they definitely illegal? I don't think the ESB has the power to make it 'illegal', just against public safety.

Tearing down No posters, no matter how mis-informational, won't do the yes side any favors.

Given the problems that the ESB describe by prohibited posters being placed on poles, and the costs invloved in removing them, do the ESB go after the owning organisation to recover the costs?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/referendum-posters-on-electricity-poles-will-be-removed--esb-836059.html

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Shadowstrife

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Being in Donegal where there is law of the jungle, I see loads of No posters on timber poles, up now for over a week.

Either the local ESB don't care, or don't want to get involved.

So where the heck are the posters supposed to go up, if not on poles? What other types of poles are there, lol.

Ban all election posters anyway. The internet exists now.

gctest50

Shadowstrife wrote: »

.........

Ban all election posters anyway. The internet exists now.

For sure, and remove all those 40 foot long adverts - place is destroyed with them



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11250670/Grenoble-to-replace-street-advertising-with-trees-and-community-spaces.html

Ms Lheureux said there had been billboards in Grenoble since 1976 but that they were now "obsolete" and no longer "corresponded to the expectations of the inhabitants who want to reclaim public space."

B0jangles

B0jangles wrote: »

The ones illegally placed on ESB poles had been cut down this morning, but you can see the remains of the NO campaign poster left on the pole - the colour is identical to the ones still hanging.

Just wanted to add that ONLY the ESB pole posters are gone as far as I can tell, and they were hung well out of anyone's reach unless they had a long ladder or a cherry-picker, so it does appear that they were removed by the ESB themselves.