The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

SusieBlue

dudara wrote: »

I’m seeing anecdotal stories on twitter where people are finding themselves not listed on the Register of Electors.

Putting the truth of that aside for a minute, who can request to remove names from the Register? And is a record of that processing maintained? And finally, will it be subject to GDPR?

I’m going to do some research myself, but I thought I’d ask here first in case someone knows.

I don't seem to be on the register even though I voted in the last referendum.

I have since moved out of my parents house, but haven't formally changed my address. Would that be why I'm not on it any more?
Must ring tomorrow to find out, just seeing if anyone has any info first!

gmisk

https://www.checktheregister.ie/PublicPages/Default.aspx?uiLang=
I just checked and all registered.
I would definitely ring them they should be able to switch where you vote.

amdublin

When I initially checked I couldn't find myself. A bit of messing around and there i was...

Best ring to check

Yer Da sells Avon

RobertKK wrote: »

I was blocked by repeal shield for no reason. They just want to protect idiots who are snowflakes and to avoid people being possibly influenced. Basically it is a device for weak minded people to use, as adults should be open to all opinions in a referendum, not just those they support.

People don't usually get blocked for no reason - and the reason doesn't have to be overt abuse. I don't use repeal shield, but I've looked through the list and a lot of those on it are anonymous or faceless accounts. I recognise some of them as people who I've already blocked or muted for randomly entering my mentions to tell me why I'm wrong.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Edward M

SusieBlue wrote: »

I don't seem to be on the register even though I voted in the last referendum.

I have since moved out of my parents house, but haven't formally changed my address. Would that be why I'm not on it any more?
Must ring tomorrow to find out, just seeing if anyone has any info first!

Local politicians I'm told can get you deregistered if you change address, not sure if that is true either, but I was told it happens in localities where families might be considered to be of a particular political persuasion. If a member of that family moves on or out then the opposing politicians get them deregistered to stop them coming home to vote, usually for local elections.

horseburger

seamus wrote: »

Had exactly the same conversation with my wife last night

She was worried that she was living in a bubble because it seemed to her that all of the pro-life campaign were "batsh1t crazy". And she wouldn't be a campigner at all or someone to get involved in online conversations. So it's not like she's picking some sources and blocking others.

I assured her that her assessment is in fact correct and the only people who care enough to campaign on the pro-life side are in fact the religious extremists and the insane.

Christopher Hitchens wasn't a religious extremist and nor was he insane, and he had a fundamental difficulty with abortion.

Here is the full video for the debate from which the clip in the second video above comes.

It is a debate titled:

Turek vs. Hitchens Debate: Does God Exist?

Frank Turek, co-author of "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist," and Christopher Hitchens, author of "god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything," met at VCU in Richmond, VA to debate the subject, "Does God Exist?"

https://vimeo.com/1904911

https://churchpop.com/2017/01/25/an-unexpected-ally-did-you-know-atheist-christopher-hitchens-was-pro-life/

FunLover18

The best an most efficient way to check the register is with the eircode of the address to which you were originally registered registered. Also if you're is Irish, use the fade if there is one. I'm used to not using mine because most computer systems don't recognise them.

gctest50

gmisk wrote: »

https://www.checktheregister.ie/PublicPages/Default.aspx?uiLang=
I just checked and all registered.
I would definitely ring them they should be able to switch where you vote.

I think boards.ie should make a sticky

" Check you are registered to vote : "



https://www.checktheregister.ie

Martina1991

Save the 8th have posters of a fully formed baby painted on a woman's belly saying "If killing a baby at 6 months bothers you, vote no".

How can these blatant lies be allowed on these posters.

Ave Sodalis

Martina1991 wrote: »

Save the 8th have posters of a fully formed baby painted on a woman's belly saying "If killing a baby at 6 months bothers you, vote no".

How can these blatant lies be allowed on these posters.

Ah jaysus...

B0jangles

Martina1991 wrote: »

Save the 8th have posters of a fully formed baby painted on a woman's belly saying "If killing a baby at 6 months bothers you, vote no".

How can these blatant lies be allowed on these posters.

You could argue that they are not actually saying that repealing the 8th will permit widespread abortion at 6 months, so it's not a direct lie - it's grossly and intentionally misleading of course, but that's only to be expected.

I saw one today that simply said "BABIES WILL DIE - VOTE NO" - truthfulness is not an issue for some people when they believe god is on their side.

Annasopra

Martina1991 wrote: »

Save the 8th have posters of a fully formed baby painted on a woman's belly saying "If killing a baby at 6 months bothers you, vote no".

How can these blatant lies be allowed on these posters.

There is nobody who can disallow it as far as I know.

Ave Sodalis

B0jangles wrote: »

You could argue that they are not actually saying that repealing the 8th will permit widespread abortion at 6 months, so it's not a direct lie - it's grossly and intentionally misleading of course, but that's only to be expected.

That's like the PETA video I watched once of a vet lancing a huge cyst on a cow's leg, before cutting to someone pouring a glass of milk. You could also argue that they didn't actually say that you have to slice open the cows leg in order to get milk :P

Defunkd

Kurtosis wrote: »

And that's only England that would be 1 in 7, it would be lower again in Scotland and Wales.

No. For some reason, England and Wales are grouped as one and Scotland is accounted seperately. I think this was always the case and isn't a result of potential Scottish independence.
The figures for the abortion stats of 2016, as posted on the BBC website are: Eng/Wales 21%; Sco 17 or 18%. Miscarriages are recorded seperately. I found the "1 in 5" figure a bit fantastical but i even knocked out the calculator myself and it is correct.

B0jangles

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

That's like the PETA video I watched once of a vet lancing a huge cyst on a cow's leg, before cutting to someone pouring a glass of milk. You could also argue that they didn't actually say that you have to slice open the cows leg in order to get milk :P

That's exactly it; you create an association between A and B without explicitly saying that permitting A will cause B to happen.

AtomicHorror

Martina1991 wrote: »

Save the 8th have posters of a fully formed baby painted on a woman's belly saying "If killing a baby at 6 months bothers you, vote no".

How can these blatant lies be allowed on these posters.

Because nobody is responsible for holding referendum posters to a standard. In fact, it seems there is no standard to hold them to.

Referendum Commission and County Councils only seem concerned with littering laws and it seems ASAI don't have referendum materials in their scope.

thee glitz

optogirl wrote: »

The Save the eighth crowd love people with DS so much that they would see nothing wrong in forcing a 12 year old with DS (or any 12 year old) who was raped & pregnant to go through with that pregnancy. Not only that but they think any alternative should be criminalised.

Ye, criminalising people with DS - that's what pro-lifers stand for... this is beyond contempt and I genuinely feel sad for you. Unless you've any evidence of it of course.

NuMarvel

thee glitz wrote: »

Ye, criminalising people with DS - that's what pro-lifers stand for... this is beyond contempt and I genuinely feel sad for you. Unless you've any evidence of it of course.

Strawman
noun

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man."

The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's proposition.

MkaylaK

I'm 18 years old and pro-life. There are certainly some, but definitely not a lot of pro-lifers in my age group.

Firstly, I'd like to say that I truly believe, that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I think that discussion of this highly sensitive issue is important to ensure that everyone is fully informed on both sides of the debate, before they make their decision to vote yes or no.

There is absolutely no need to belittle or disrespect somebody else simply because they have a different view to you. It's important to remain open minded in this debate to make sure that you choose what you believe is the right vote.

I'd also like to point out that the Catholic Church (or any church) has had no influence on my choice to be pro-life whatsoever. The notion that all pro-lifers are bible worshippers is simply untrue.

These are some of the reasons that I have chosen to be pro life.
I cannot justify destroying innocent human life.
I cannot understand why we would want to end the lives of babies after 12 weeks for conditions such as cleft palette and down syndrome etc.
I cannot understand what difference there is in a foetus at 11 weeks and 6 days than at 12 weeks and 1 day. Why does the 12 week mark hold such significance?
At the end of the day, for an abortion to be carried out, a heartbeat has to be deliberately stopped. We know what that is called outside of the womb, so what is the difference inside the womb?
Remember, the same heart beats in you today as it did when your mother was pregnant with you, the whole way throughout her pregnancy.

From reading this thread, I know many people will disagree with me and that's ok, but please stay respectful.

pitifulgod

MkaylaK wrote: »

I'm 18 years old and pro-life. There are certainly some, but definitely not a lot of pro-lifers in my age group.

Firstly, I'd like to say that I truly believe, that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I think that discussion of this highly sensitive issue is important to ensure that everyone is fully informed on both sides of the debate, before they make their decision to vote yes or no.

There is absolutely no need to belittle or disrespect somebody else simply because they have a different view to you. It's important to remain open minded in this debate to make sure that you choose what you believe is the right vote.

These are some of the reasons that I have chosen to be pro life.
I cannot justify destroying innocent human life.
I cannot understand why we would want to end the lives of babies after 12 weeks for conditions such as cleft palette and down syndrome etc.
I cannot understand what difference there is in a foetus at 11 weeks and 6 days than at 12 weeks and 1 day. Why does the 12 week mark hold such significance?
At the end of the day, for an abortion to be carried out, a heartbeat has to be deliberately stopped. We know what that is called outside of the womb, so what is the difference inside the womb?
Remember, the same heart beats in you today as it did when your mother was pregnant with you, the whole way throughout her pregnancy.

From reading this thread, I know many people will disagree with me and that's ok, but please stay respectful.

You want to remain respectful but do you think that you are respectful by shaming them or implying they're 'killers' for ending a pregnancy? You can wrap sentences up in tinsel but your implications are pretty clear.

thee glitz

NuMarvel wrote: »

Strawman
noun

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man."

The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's proposition.

Have I misread something? It seems a highly improbable situation.

gctest50

MkaylaK wrote: »

..........


Remember, the same heart beats in you today as it did when your mother was pregnant with you, the whole way throughout her pregnancy.
...............

Human heart cells undergo slow, continual replacement - about 1% per year

Triceratops Ballet

MkaylaK wrote:

These are some of the reasons that I have chosen to be pro life. I cannot justify destroying innocent human life. I cannot understand why we would want to end the lives of babies after 12 weeks for conditions such as cleft palette and down syndrome etc. I cannot understand what difference there is in a foetus at 11 weeks and 6 days than at 12 weeks and 1 day. Why does the 12 week mark hold such significance? At the end of the day, for an abortion to be carried out, a heartbeat has to be deliberately stopped. We know what that is called outside of the womb, so what is the difference inside the womb? Remember, the same heart beats in you today as it did when your mother was pregnant with you, the whole way throughout her pregnancy.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but you owe it to yourself to inform yourself of the facts

Downs syndrome and cleft palate can not be diagnosed by 12 weeks, so under any new legislation they will not be reasons for termination.

You speak a lot about the rights of the unborn, what do you think about how the 8th affects the rights of pregnant women?

How do you feel about a ban on abortion forcing a woman to remain pregnant against her will?

Ave Sodalis

MkaylaK wrote: »

These are some of the reasons that I have chosen to be pro life.
I cannot justify destroying innocent human life.
I cannot understand why we would want to end the lives of babies after 12 weeks for conditions such as cleft palette and down syndrome etc.
I cannot understand what difference there is in a foetus at 11 weeks and 6 days than at 12 weeks and 1 day. Why does the 12 week mark hold such significance?
At the end of the day, for an abortion to be carried out, a heartbeat has to be deliberately stopped. We know what that is called outside of the womb, so what is the difference inside the womb?
Remember, the same heart beats in you today as it did when your mother was pregnant with you, the whole way throughout her pregnancy.

From reading this thread, I know many people will disagree with me and that's ok, but please stay respectful.

1) Human life is highly debatable. To many people, it's potential
2) Neither DS or cleft palate are things that will be aborted under current proposed legislation.
3) 12 weeks was picked due to the high levels of natural miscarriage before this date, and the percentage of abortions carried out before this in countries will more liberal abortion laws. It will also bring us in line with EU norms.
4) In the womb, that heart is being developed by a living, breathing, feeling woman who, for a huge multitude of reasons, may not be able or want to continue developing the rest of the foetus. It's rarely so straight forward as just not bothered being pregnant anymore.
5) Yes, and if my mother chose to have an abortion, and for some reason I held conscience after, I would fully understand why.

Hope you don't find me targetting your points as disrespectful!

gctest50

MkaylaK wrote: »

................

I cannot understand what difference there is in a foetus at 11 weeks and 6 days than at 12 weeks and 1 day. Why does the 12 week mark hold such significance?

.............

( In some areas )

It is legal to drive at 79km/h but it is illegal to drive at 85km/h

Why does 80km/h mark hold such significance ?

MkaylaK

pitifulgod wrote: »

You want to remain respectful but do you think that you are respectful by shaming them or implying they're 'killers' for ending a pregnancy? You can wrap sentences up in tinsel but your implications are pretty clear.

I'm sorry, I don't know what exactly you mean by saying that my 'sentences are wrapped up in tinsel'and not once did I label anybody a 'killer'.In fact, I never even thought of using that word.
I just asked what's the difference between deliberately ending an innocent life in the womb and ending it outside of the womb. If you can give me a significant difference, I'd honestly love to hear it. That is why it is phrased as a question.
As I've said, I'm remaining open minded on the issue.

thee glitz

pitifulgod wrote: »

You want to remain respectful but do you think that you are respectful by shaming them or implying they're 'killers' for ending a pregnancy? You can wrap sentences up in tinsel but your implications are pretty clear.

If you self-identify as being ok with killing, that's your own business. OP made a mature and honest post.

gctest50

MkaylaK wrote: »

.....


Why does the 12 week mark hold such significance?

At the end of the day, for an abortion to be carried out, a heartbeat has to be deliberately stopped

...

Until ~ 17 weeks, the heart cells are just beating spontaneously

have a look here :

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106741775&postcount=5299

pitifulgod

MkaylaK wrote: »

I'm sorry, I don't know what exactly you mean by saying that my 'sentences are wrapped up in tinsel'and not once did I label anybody a 'killer'.In fact, I never even thought of using that word.
I just asked what's the difference between deliberately ending an innocent life in the womb and ending it outside of the womb. If you can give me a significant difference, I'd honestly love to hear it. That is why it is phrased as a question.
As I've said, I'm remaining open minded on the issue.

You said the below, the implication is pretty clear.

At the end of the day, for an abortion to be carried out, a heartbeat has to be deliberately stopped. We know what that is called outside of the womb, so what is the difference inside the womb?