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The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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    #512
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    sean635 wrote: »
    It is an individual human being before birth, it has it’s own DNA and organ systems. It’s a separate organism. It’s not the mother’s body nor an extension of it’s mothers’s body

    Nope it's a fetus hence the word fetus.


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    #513
    Madscientist30
    Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭Madscientist30


    sean635 wrote: »
    Madscientist30 wrote: »
    So suffering doesnt matter to you, just life is the important thing? If you dont mind me asking, where does this belief stem from for you? That any life is more important than the suffering of women? Do you have a wife or daughters?

    I have many female friends and family members and I can tell you that I believe all suffering matters. My belief is that the right to life of the unborn child whether sentient or not should not be superseded by the mother on any grounds. I don’t deny that pregnancies are a difficult physical ordeal and not all pregnancies are wanted but it would be a mistake to essentially allow the value of the unborn life to be dictated by someone who has already been born for any reason.
    But you are doing exactly that yourself arent you? As a born person, dictating what the value of the unborn life is to other people? So you believe that the unborn supercedes the born in all cases? Even where the mothers life is in jeopardy? Well, all I can say is I hope with all my heart that no woman you love ever finds herself in a crisis pregnancy situation then.


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    #514
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    sean635 wrote: »
    You just said the Irish framework of laws on this is the same as in Britain. Maybe if you could clarify. I think I misunderstood you

    No I didn't - I said that effectively we have the UK system in Ireland for rich people already. The UK legislative framework already governs a huge amount of Irish abortions and we voted to legally recognise that in 1992. We have the UK system already! We just like to pretend we don't.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #515
    sean635
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭sean635


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    Nope it's a fetus hence the word fetus.

    A foetus is still a human being. It’s a word we use to accurately describe what stage of gestation the baby is at. Just like zygote, embryo.

    It’s latin for “offspring”

    There’s no such creature on this earth as a foetus


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    #516
    MilesMorales1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭MilesMorales1


    sean635 wrote: »
    A foetus is still a human being. It’s a word we use to accurately describe what stage of gestation the baby is at. Just like zygote, embryo.

    It’s latin for “offspring”

    There’s no such creature on this earth as a foetus

    You are literally mental.


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    #517
    sean635
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭sean635


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    No I didn't - I said that effectively we have the UK system in Ireland for rich people already. The UK legislative framework already governs a huge amount of Irish abortions and we voted to legally recognise that in 1992. We have the UK system already! We just like to pretend we don't.

    There’s no evidence to suggest that. We would have a huge increase in abortions if we legalized it here.

    “It’s legal over there” isn’t an argument for making it legal here.


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    #518
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,325 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    sean635 wrote: »
    A foetus is still a human being. It’s a word we use to accurately describe what stage of gestation the baby is at. Just like zygote, embryo.

    It’s latin for “offspring”

    There’s no such creature on this earth as a foetus

    A foetus is not a human being.


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    #519
    Madscientist30
    Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭Madscientist30


    sean635 wrote: »
    erica74 wrote: »
    Why do you believe that?

    Because a foetus has equivalent moral worth to any other human.
    So do you believe then that from conception the foetus should be treated the same as a born child? Should child benefit be paid? Are we remiss as a society because we dont have funerals in cases of miscarraige? Do you think anybody that has an abortion should be charged with murder and given the same life sentence as for any other murder?


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    #520
    sean635
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭sean635


    MilesMorales1 wrote: »
    You are literally mental.

    Again, why with the personal insults just because you disagree with me?

    So immature.


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    #521
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,325 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    sean635 wrote: »
    There’s no evidence to suggest that. We would have a huge increase in abortions if we legalized it here.

    “It’s legal over there” isn’t an argument for making it legal here.

    Yes it is.


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    #522
    MilesMorales1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭MilesMorales1


    sean635 wrote: »
    Again, why with the personal insults just because you disagree with me?

    So immature.

    You are arguing with medical professionals, and fact, and the English language. It's pretty appropriate.


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    #523
    sean635
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭sean635


    Cody montana wrote: »
    Yes it is.

    Really? So the UK system of laws is the one true righteous framework of laws in the world and we all ought to replicate it?

    Again, give me an argument other than “ it’s legal there, therefore it’s okay”


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    #524
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    sean635 wrote: »
    We would have a huge increase in abortions if we legalized it here.

    “It’s legal over there” isn’t an argument for making it legal here.

    There is no evidence to suggest that.


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    #525
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,325 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    sean635 wrote: »
    Really? So the UK system of laws is the one true righteous framework of laws in the world and we all ought to replicate it?

    Again, give me an argument other than “ it’s legal there, therefore it’s okay”

    If an Irish woman requires an abortion, she should be able to do it in her country.
    Clear enough?


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    #526
    sean635
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭sean635


    MilesMorales1 wrote: »
    You are arguing with medical professionals, and fact, and the English language. It's pretty appropriate.

    I just gave you a full disambiguation of the word “foetus” and how a foetus is a human, just of a human at an early stage of development.


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    #527
    sean635
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭sean635


    Cody montana wrote: »
    If an Irish woman requires an abortion, she should be able to do it in her country.
    Clear enough?

    Your stating your view without making any points on why your view is correct. The very thing I’m being falsely accused of doing here.


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    #528
    sean635
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭sean635


    mzungu wrote: »
    There is no evidence to suggest that.

    It’s a fundamental rule of economics that whenever you subsidize a service, you will always get more of it.


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    #529
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    sean635 wrote: »
    There’s no evidence to suggest that.

    Yes there is

    3265 abortions in the UK in 2016

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/679028/Abortions_stats_England_Wales_2016.pdf

    3451 in the UK in 2015

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/570040/Updated_Abortion_Statistics_2015.pdf
    We would have a huge increase in abortions if we legalized it here.

    This is simply is a myth that if you make services less restrictive you will be encouraging women to have abortions. The complete opposite is true.

    As proved by the Lancet “The abortion rate was lower ... where more women live under liberal abortion laws.”

    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2811%2961786-8/fulltext

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #530
    sean635
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭sean635


    sean635 wrote: »
    It’s a fundamental rule of economics that whenever you subsidize a service, you will always get more of it.

    Subsidize or allow rather


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    #531
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    sean635 wrote: »
    I just gave you a full disambiguation of the word “foetus” and how a foetus is a human, just of a human at an early stage of development.

    I'm sorry but did you really say that there is no such thing as a fetus?

    Mods, how is he allowed to continue to post? I'm all for a debate but... What is this?


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    #532
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    sean635 wrote: »
    It’s a fundamental rule of economics that whenever you subsidize a service, you will always get more of it.

    There is no evidence for your assertion. NONE. Nada. Zero. Just hot air myths

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #533
    sean635
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭sean635


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    I'm sorry but did you really say that there is no such thing as a fetus?

    Mods, how is he allowed to continue to post? I'm all for a debate but... What is this?

    I never said there’s no such thing as a foetus. All I said was that a foetus is still a human being. Read my post. A foetus is a member of the human species


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    #534
    sean635
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭sean635


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    There is no evidence for your assertion. NONE. Nada. Zero. Just hot air myths

    http://blog.independent.org/2008/11/21/to-get-more-of-something-eg-unemployment-subsidize-it/

    A fundamental rule of economics that applies to nearly every product and service


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    #535
    Madscientist30
    Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭Madscientist30


    sean635 wrote: »
    DubInMeath wrote: »
    Because they graduated from being a fetus to being a person by being born. Before that they are a fetus not a person.

    So you have to be born to be a person as well as having sentient thought as you said before? Please explain to me how the vaginal canal confers personhood when the baby passes through it at birth.
    That is the point when they become a living breathing human being. Even the Bible says so, if you are a religious type!

    On the right to travel thing you seem to be quite ambiguous. Do you support the rights of Irish women to travel for an abortion, or do you think that should be outlawed as well for moral reasons?


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    #536
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    sean635 wrote: »
    http://blog.independent.org/2008/11/21/to-get-more-of-something-eg-unemployment-subsidize-it/

    A fundamental rule of economics that applies to nearly every product and service

    You have no proof at all. Nothing. Just hot air and myths

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #537
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Madscientist30 wrote: »
    That is the point when they become a living breathing human being. Even the Bible says so, if you are a religious type!

    On the right to travel thing you seem to be quite ambiguous. Do you support the rights of Irish women to travel for an abortion, or do you think that should be outlawed as well for moral reasons?

    He already said no to that on the grounds that it might inconvenience some ‘law abiding’ citizens.


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    #538
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    sean635 wrote: »
    I never said there’s no such thing as a foetus. All I said was that a foetus is still a human being. Read my post. A foetus is a member of the human species
    sean635 wrote: »

    There’s no such creature on this earth as a foetus

    I have no words

    you are aware that you've contradicted yourself multiple times yes?


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    #539
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,325 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    sean635 wrote: »
    Your stating your view without making any points on why your view is correct. The very thing I’m being falsely accused of doing here.

    It’s called logic.


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    #540
    sean635
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭sean635


    Madscientist30 wrote: »
    That is the point when they become a living breathing human being. Even the Bible says so, if you are a religious type!

    On the right to travel thing you seem to be quite ambiguous. Do you support the rights of Irish women to travel for an abortion, or do you think that should be outlawed as well for moral reasons?

    Ok, i’d be prepared to disagree with the Bible.

    I don’t want any restrictions placed on travel for reasons that would every pregnant woman going on a holiday be a suspect? Might be impractical to enforce.

    Really? First breath. So you think it’s okay to abort it at 9 months before it’s due. That’s extreme even for a pro choicer


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    #541
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    Mod-Sean635, do not post in this thread again please.

    Ladies and gents, please don't reply to Sean, he is not allowed to reply and its unfair. I've removed some posts for this reason. Thank you.


This discussion has been closed.
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